EPTHow much info should be shown in casts? - Page 3
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pullarius1
United States523 Posts
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btlyger
United States470 Posts
In tournaments, I like to see the action. Seeing everything else takes away from the gameplay, and ultimately lets it feel less like an epic battle and more like watching a replay to learn. When I'm watching a tournament, I want to see 2 pros duking it out and nothing else. I completely forget about strategies and just sit back and enjoy. | ||
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butter
United States785 Posts
![[image loading]](http://c0848462.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/1070ac802e1e03c6a1bcfdb72e794a88.jpg) | ||
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On January 30 2011 08:26 Frankon wrote: i would go for limited korean style... We all want the esport to grow... The best way is to make it enjoyable for the watchers. Bellow is TLO open spoiler .. be warned. + Show Spoiler + Lets give some example. Today's TLO final. . We could see both players going for DT's in one game . And it wasn't much of a suspension. Now imagine this. Wheat concentrates commentating on what is happening on TLO ramp. Get into a discussion with Wolf on how it would be possible to break the ramp. Well wolf would be cheating by having production tab open. Now TLO makes a halucinated phoenix and go and scout. WHeat follows the phoenix with TLO vision on. We see he discovers DT shrine being warped. And go immediately for forge+cannons.This would be a nice tension for viewers to guess what would be faster DT's or the canons... Damn.. this was the example I was gonna use xD OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF. If you want to follow the game that intricately why don't you just watch a replay? | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13407 Posts
Seeing hit points at a critical time is cool but the production tab always open does kill the suspense sometimes. Seeing production during an instructional or not competitive game though is nice since it helps you to see and learn a build order in the early game and upgrade timings throughout | ||
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Char711
United States862 Posts
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
I don't care about hp bars either. The only time I would even consider seeing them is during a battle where micro is crucial such as blink stalkers, but even then, I don't mind just watching without the hp bars and seeing what happens. | ||
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Smurphy
United States374 Posts
To me, watching the game without that information available at critical moments is like watching American football if you were never able to know the down and distance. I'm not able to follow the game nor understand why the players are doing what they are doing when key information isn't being shown. I don't feel more tension because I do not know everything. I feel frustration when I am denied knowing why a strategy is or is not being used. Imagine watching American football if it was cut so you would just see the ball snapped and a play occur but you wouldn't know what down it was nor how far it was to the first down. I suspect it would be like watching some obvious action and tension but not really understanding what is going on. That is how I felt today. I can't watch that. How that played out today, spoilers + Show Spoiler + In the final game DuckloadRa attacked into TLO's expansion. DuckloadRa had a force of Stalkers, Zealots and Sentries. One bunker was in front for TLO and he was scrapping together random troops. Hitpoints on the bunker were not shown at anypoint in time. Duckload threw down some forcefields around the bunker. However, there was still a decent space for SCVs and mules to repair. The SCVs and mules went to the bunker. The bunker was engaged. The bunker was obviously on fire. Then DuckloadRa just stopped attacking it. He started trying to walk by the bunker into the main. What the ****. It was on fire. Was it almost dead? Were the SCVs and Mules repairing it too fast? What was inside the bunker? Was the bunker empty? Could he have finished it off with one more shot? I would have known the answer to these questions had hitpoints been on. If casters don't show relevant information at relevant times I cannot watch. I watched the Broodwar finals today. I had never watched a professional Brood War game before. At times during battles the camera would cut to faces in the crowd. Once it cut away at a critical moment when a unit was one shot away from dying and was being pursued. The game hung on this moment and the camera cut to the crowd. I turned it off. That frustration is what I felt watching the TSL today. Information that let me follow what was occurring was being denied. | ||
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Char711
United States862 Posts
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Char711
United States862 Posts
On January 30 2011 11:09 Smurphy wrote: I simply cannot watch cast games when the casters ask rhetorical questions when the answer is on their screen or would be on their screen with one of the information tabs open. In the final game which is described in the opening post I would have turned off the game had it not ended at that point in time. To me, watching the game without that information available at critical moments is like watching American football if you were never able to know the down and distance. I'm not able to follow the game nor understand why the players are doing what they are doing when key information isn't being shown. I don't feel more tension because I do not know everything. I feel frustration when I am denied knowing why a strategy is or is not being used. Imagine watching American football if it was cut so you would just see the ball snapped and a play occur but you wouldn't know what down it was nor how far it was to the first down. I suspect it would be like watching some obvious action and tension but not really understanding what is going on. That is how I felt today. I can't watch that. How that played out today, spoilers + Show Spoiler + In the final game DuckloadRa attacked into TLO's expansion. DuckloadRa had a force of Stalkers, Zealots and Sentries. One bunker was in front for TLO and he was scrapping together random troops. Hitpoints on the bunker were not shown at anypoint in time. Duckload threw down some forcefields around the bunker. However, there was still a decent space for SCVs and mules to repair. The SCVs and mules went to the bunker. The bunker was engaged. The bunker was obviously on fire. Then DuckloadRa just stopped attacking it. He started trying to walk by the bunker into the main. What the ****. It was on fire. Was it almost dead? Were the SCVs and Mules repairing it too fast? What was inside the bunker? Was the bunker empty? Could he have finished it off with one more shot? I would have known the answer to these questions had hitpoints been on. If casters don't show relevant information at relevant times I cannot watch. I watched the Broodwar finals today. I had never watched a professional Brood War game before. At times during battles the camera would cut to faces in the crowd. Once it cut away at a critical moment when a unit was one shot away from dying and was being pursued. The game hung on this moment and the camera cut to the crowd. I turned it off. That frustration is what I felt watching the TSL today. Information that let me follow what was occurring was being denied. Your football analogy is excellent. I'm also really big on being able to see the lines, yards, downs, etc. | ||
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Bijan
United States286 Posts
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
No reason at all to have none of them ever showing. That's just annoying, and you can't really watch the ebb and flow of the game as well. | ||
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Assymptotic
United States552 Posts
I'm reminded of an instance where Stork(?) was playing against Hiya(?) about a month ago where Stork warpped in a stargate. Kim Carrier began yelling "CARRIER CARRIER CARRIER" really loudly for a while, getting everyone all excited. However, we got Arbiters instead, thus adding a huge LOL factor. However, there's a slight problem; GOMTV does not have Korean commentators, and thus, having them try to cast it Korean style (e.g. hidden tabs) does little for drama. What I wish we could get is first-person camera; it's always astounding to watch 250+ apm players do their thing. So I say keep them production, supply, resource, and income tabs. However, we really do need better quality streams if we decide to keep the tabs; half the time I can't even read the them because the quality is so bad. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On January 30 2011 09:43 slivaz wrote: I wasn't taking about the health bars. I was talking about the little bars in the production tab that displays the progress of whatever item it is associated with. When an item is completed, it's associated bar disappears. You said you "usually fixate on a production tab". Full stop. On topic: There is a particular use of the income tab I find very weird. When a player makes a drop or a harasment tactic work, killing around 20 harvesters and the commentators go "Oooh" and "What a great play!", and then proceeds to open the income tab to go "Look at those numbers! He is twenty harvesters behind!", it just seems so redundant. I can tell you stopped reading after I said "I usually fixate". There is no full stop after I said that I finished the sentence by saying "but I think that kind of takes away some of the surprise". I also dont think its a good thing that I fixate on it at all. Fixate is not generally a positive word at all (for example you seem to have fixated on the first part of my opening sentence) so I dont know why you drew the conclusion you did from that. Also watching the production bar doesnt necessarily mean you are watching the little bars fill up. Anyway on topic again: Yes although sometimes you think a player would be behind from a drop but then thats more because they havent told you how ahead he was before it. | ||
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Puremiss
United States232 Posts
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
Hiding information doesn't increase flair. For example, not showing some drop coming on the minimap does not increase excitement. It just increases rage, because competent viewers actually watch the minimap as well, and see that kind of thing. Also, showing HP bars emphasizes the micro of the players, or the lack thereof. | ||
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I8PP
Canada186 Posts
HP bars may emphasize the micro of the players, but it's harder to see what is going on, and that would be a big problem. | ||
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taintmachine
United States431 Posts
i don't think healthbars should be on, but i really wish observers would flash them at the appropriate times to give more info. | ||
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CASLsoju
Canada253 Posts
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