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I feel exactly like the OP :-( current map pool stagnant, honestly I dont care that much about the quality of the maps..I just want them to remove the ultra small ones and obvious bad ones, and keep refreshing it every now and then... thats the key to bws long lasting success.
but we all know the blizzard of today is not the same blizzard of 10 years ago..they operate differntly and its queite obvious from a multitude of things in sc2, like no lan support, no chat, no crossrealm, no singleplayer without online connection, xbox-looking game lobby. awfull customgame lobby.........I could go on all day.
the game itself is kinda awsome.
Like so many others have said, how hard can it be? seriously all you need to do is employ one person to search teamliquids forums for the best maps, there are dozzens of gems in there..and learn / pirate them 
or......just talk to iccup crew, they are really good at making maps and its your own stupid fault if you ignore them.
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On January 07 2011 15:44 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 15:41 XXXSmOke wrote:
Guys I know Idra is on EG...
But nobody in EG is in SKorea....
Ask yourself this
Should GOMTV be at the mercy of those who do not have practice partners???
I'm pretty sure gomtv has no plans to make their own maps (due to the same reasons as every other tournament organization). Hence it's up to blizzard and they also have no interest and expect tourneys to create maps. It's a lose-lose situation thanks to bnet 2.0 (like all efforts of bnet 2.0). Blizz - Custom maps are up to the tournaments Tournaments (mlg/gomtv) - We cant use custom maps due to bnet 2.0 and alienating players due to requiring non ladder play.
You make a good point, there has got to be some way around this though. I hope one party or the other will eventully realize that this has got to change. Either Blizz will finally listen to the community and offer up new maps. Or GOMTV will try to pressure Blizz into changing things due to the short comings of the current problem. Who knows how long this will tkae tho TT
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I quite like the maps themselves, however I hate the fact that they encourage all-ins and quick (generally boring) games. From a spectators point of view I dislike the maps, but from a players point of view they're fine. That said it would be nice to see some nice, larger and well balanced maps find their way into the pool every now and then.
EDIT: Also it seems to me that the GSL's 'bring out the all-in in everyone' (ok, maybe not quite everyone), few people want to play macro, they just want a win and they want it fast, question is would different maps change this?
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I hate the map pool. For ladder play you can't thumb down all the horrible maps so you always might end up in something that's just bad.
And in general even the better maps; Metalopolis and Xel'naga are getting old and stagnant and only map I really like is Shakuras, but of course it got removed, hopefully only temporarily.
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On January 07 2011 16:03 Phenny wrote:
I quite like the maps themselves, however I hate the fact that they encourage all-ins and quick (generally boring) games. From a spectators point of view I dislike the maps, but from a players point of view they're fine. That said it would be nice to see some nice, larger and well balanced maps find their way into the pool every now and then.
EDIT: Also it seems to me that the GSL's 'bring out the all-in in everyone' (ok, maybe not quite everyone), few people want to play macro, they just want a win and they want it fast, question is would different maps change this?
They would change it every bit.
If you had two pros play on Iccup Fighting Spirit. Do you think the guy is gona 2 rax pull scv with a 50 second walk to the base. No. The "just want a win" is the perfect mentality for the competiveness of the tournament.
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The map pool is just a disgrace for me, and I'm sure for many others who transitioned from BW to SC2. Seeing new maps come out and then be implemented both in OSL/MSL and on iccup really drove and in fact continues to drive the evolution of the metagame. With SC2, we are seeing gimmicky play on maps like Steppes of War, and it really is quite disappointing.
I'm certain Blizzard knows there's a problem, but they seem to be very content with just sitting on their ass and doing absolutely nothing. I don't mind if balance changes aren't made unless some strats prove to be blatantly imbalanced, which is not the case for SC2, but it is sad to see a developer known for making quality games just turn their back on spurring the community's efforts. I mean, did Blizzard ever take a lesson from War3's stagnant map pool? They need to be taking the lead with map making.
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Aren't there gonna be new maps with the next patch? They are remaking Plunder Isle from WC3 =)
And anyone who whines about the map-pool is generally an elitist SC player who wants every game to be a 5-base macro-fest.
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On January 07 2011 16:20 Starshaped wrote:
Aren't there gonna be new maps with the next patch? They are remaking Plunder Isle from WC3 =)
And anyone who whines about the map-pool is generally an elitist SC player who wants every game to be a 5-base macro-fest.
anyone who whines about the map pool either is an EX bw player, watched bw, agrees with people who played bw, agrees with people who watched bw and anyone else with common sense.
those who are content about the map pool are completely ignorant or have the attention span of a half beaten retarded baby who was dropped twice at birth then was bathed in amonia every day till it was 3 before finally it was given a reprive of its poor life and stored in a cardboard box with air holes.
and tell me, how is remaking a map from wc3 (heavily micro based rts, as opposed to macro based like sc) going to dramaticly change how people view the map pool?
EDIT:
ps look at plunder isle THERE ARE 6 BASES IN TOTAL!!!!!!
its like jungle basin only without the side expansions and your natural is miles away from your main.
if they add that into the map pool. i fear that blizzard will lose ALL support.
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On January 07 2011 16:20 Starshaped wrote:
Aren't there gonna be new maps with the next patch? They are remaking Plunder Isle from WC3 =)
And anyone who whines about the map-pool is generally an elitist SC player who wants every game to be a 5-base macro-fest.
Some people are just sick of playing and watching the same maps. If you have played 1000+ games and watch streams and vods everyday, its getting really boring. I hope Blizz adds atleast 4 new maps to the ladder pool pretty soon (even if they are as small as the current ones, wich i dont hope). Atleast when chatchannels are out we will be able to find people to play some custom maps.
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Well, lose all support by the handful of BW players. I'm sure 95% of players are fine with the pool. TL.net is notoriously "elitist" so any poll here doesn't really represent the community as a whole.
Edit: Yeah, sure, adding new maps is great. All I'm against is removing every small map and only playing on huge iccup maps. That would just kill SC2 for me.
Edit 2: Did they ever release Plunder Isle yet? Where can I see it? Anyone know?
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I do agree a lot with this thread. The map pool is horrendous, and the fact that it hardly ever changes makes the game a lot more stale than it normally would be. It's not the ONLY problem, but it's definitely a big one.
I really really really hate how Blizzard is forcing the ladder to be only their awful maps. I wish they would allow the much better iCCup maps to be on the ladder, or at least implement new maps a lot more frequently.
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you want bigger maps right? and how is balance going to ensue then??
zerg in starcraft 1 had to build hatcheries to get a lot of production, but queens destroyed this concept.
with the larva inject macro mechanic its impossible to make big maps without making zerg absurdly overpowered.
they will wait till you leave your base and they have time enough to make a huge army till you finaly get there. even when they wait till you are halfway the map.
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On January 07 2011 16:51 Falcon_NL wrote:
you want bigger maps right? and how is balance going to ensue then??
zerg in starcraft 1 had to build hatcheries to get a lot of production, but queens destroyed this concept.
with the larva inject macro mechanic its impossible to make big maps without making zerg absurdly overpowered.
they will wait till you leave your base and they have time enough to make a huge army till you finaly get there. even when they wait till you are halfway the map.
Good thing you play protoss where you can warp in units everywhere and you eliminate the advantage of travel time in countering.
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The only two maps that are interesting are cross positions Shakuras and Zel Naga Caverns. I think even cross positions Metal and Lost Temple are both pretty boring to watch games on because everything is funneled through just a big middle area. There's little dynamics like some of the best BW maps.
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United States7166 Posts
no, plunder isle is just a random new map that's not going in map pool, according to public test server
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Oh, what a shame.
Easily my favourite WC3 map of all time ^_^
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On January 07 2011 16:51 Falcon_NL wrote:
you want bigger maps right? and how is balance going to ensue then??
zerg in starcraft 1 had to build hatcheries to get a lot of production, but queens destroyed this concept.
with the larva inject macro mechanic its impossible to make big maps without making zerg absurdly overpowered.
they will wait till you leave your base and they have time enough to make a huge army till you finaly get there. even when they wait till you are halfway the map.
I think this is a very good point.
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On January 07 2011 16:51 Falcon_NL wrote:
you want bigger maps right? and how is balance going to ensue then??
zerg in starcraft 1 had to build hatcheries to get a lot of production, but queens destroyed this concept.
with the larva inject macro mechanic its impossible to make big maps without making zerg absurdly overpowered.
they will wait till you leave your base and they have time enough to make a huge army till you finaly get there. even when they wait till you are halfway the map.
This should NOT be a reason to ignore the awful maps, though.
Yes, Blizzard has been balancing SC2 around maps like Delta Quadrant and Steppes. Yes, things will probably have to be rebalanced to work better with larger maps. But that is a LOT better than having to play on these terrible maps all the time.
So just because a race might be better or worse on larger maps, should NOT be a reason to not include larger maps and keep SC2 in the dark ages. One step at a time. First maps. Then balance accordingly.
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I feel like a broken record saying this, but the map pool is absolutely horrendous. I said this from the beginning of beta but still wanted to give some time to see how the game panned out before sticking with it, but it seems like features of BW maps are also a must have for the current SC2 maps, those being:
-Large maps (~30 second rush distances. real time. not in game time.)
-Naturals that can be easily secured (i.e. a choke point).
Right now, the only map that even falls into this category is Shakuras, which is still stupid on close ground positions because of the backdoor rocks in your main. Lost temple is another example of this but close ground positions play out in a really stupid manner and cliff drops are incredibly tough to deal with as zerg (not saying siegable nats are OP, but I feel like roaches should be able to hit any units on the high ground).
Sure, in both SC2 and BW, 1 base play can be exciting. But when all-in 1 base play is the standard (GSL3), it's incredibly boring as a spectator, and over all a bad thing for E-sports. Blizzard truly needs to make purely macro maps. Look how fucking amazing MC vs Rain on Lost Temple was. We need more games like that, and that will only be achieved on macro maps, not absurdly tiny garbage maps like steppes of war or impossible to defend natural garbage maps that have no choke point (every map except shakuras and lost temple).
Hopefully GOM realizes this and makes their own maps which then become the standard, otherwise I foresee the momentum behind SC2 fading away within the next year or so.
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On January 07 2011 16:51 Falcon_NL wrote:
you want bigger maps right? and how is balance going to ensue then??
zerg in starcraft 1 had to build hatcheries to get a lot of production, but queens destroyed this concept.
Zerg wasn't the only race to get a macro ability. Protoss still can chronoboost probes. With bigger maps and easy to secure naturals, we'll see protoss taking incredibly early nexuses and constant probe chronoboost. Which will allow for the protoss to have an economy that can compete with Zerg. That's not to say that some balance won't take place. But it's better to have a game balanced around intense macro based play than 1 base all-ins.
On January 07 2011 16:51 Falcon_NL wrote:
they will wait till you leave your base and they have time enough to make a huge army till you finaly get there. even when they wait till you are halfway the map.
The same concept will still apply with bigger maps that apply now. There will be crucial timings where you can pressure the zerg so he makes something other than drones. This pressure could allow you to even snipe his 3rd base, but this is all just pure theory crafting so instead of theory crafting we should actually add some solid macro maps to the pool, because right now the only true macro maps (in my eyes) are Shakuras and Lost Temple (with not close ground spawning spots)
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EPT
