EPTMake sure to keep us posted on any responses you get from Blizzard or iCCup
Creating a Customladder similar to BW ICCup - Page 8
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AJMcSpiffy
United States1154 Posts
Make sure to keep us posted on any responses you get from Blizzard or iCCup | ||
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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
On January 05 2011 02:35 AJMcSpiffy wrote: I really like the whole idea you've come up with, and I saw in the OP that you're contacting Blizzard too so I REALLY support it now. This is a potentially delicate area you're treading out into, so you've gotta make sure to be as safe as possible about it. Make sure to keep us posted on any responses you get from Blizzard or iCCup I really hope he emphasised that the community has come down to this due to their poor poor map pool | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On January 04 2011 20:04 ParasitJonte wrote: From a programmer's perspective; I would say that this does not conflict with what the OP is suggesting. With f. I agree. The OP is doing something different. People are needed to find their opponents the old fashioned way (chatchannels 'D+ P looking for Z opponent'). It's similiar to using a chatchannel for "2000+ P looking for Z opponent". This is not a matchmaking service. d. is discussable. He collects data through the game (who won the match) though not with unauthorized thirdparty software but with the map which is authorized. The external software accesses the Banks files though (which are plain XML) - it is discussable if those are part of the "Game or Service". If they are - replays are too - making SC2Gears "illegal" as well. | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
On January 04 2011 16:10 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: iCCup regularly shifts about 8 different maps around as maps of the week, EVERY WEEK! There's absolutely no reason why Blizzard can't draw from community made maps as well as their own (and make new ones, it's not like their map making team does anything else, besides maybe Blizzard DoTA atm) and make a rotation of 10 or so different maps every 2 weeks to a month. They fact that we've only had two new maps since beta is absolutely unnacceptable, not to mention the fact that they haven't even bothered to correct obvious mistakes in their maps, especially when we consider that it's some people's job to play this game and they get screwed out of money due to positional imbalances as well as a slew of minimal mistakes in the map design. Furthermore, maps should be the number one priority. It keeps the game fresh and keeps creativity in the game. Better designed maps also goes very far towards balancing the game, and is probably the most important piece in a balanced rts. there are many clear racial imbalances in BW, but most, if not all of these are erased due to good map design. Just think about it, if Blizzard is trying to balance the races based on the results of matches on maps that are clearly imbalanced and sub-par, then they are doing it wrong. the reason why iCCup is able to shift so many maps so fast is because 1. the game is already considered balanced 2. iCCup ONLY works on maps, not balancing the game like Blizzard does 3. Blizzard is also working on 2 more expansions, HoTS and LoTV | ||
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SixtusTheFifth
New Zealand170 Posts
On January 04 2011 04:48 Prfx wrote: >Cheating: SC2Banks can be edited with notepad to fake results. This too can be prevented. The easiest method would be to let the map create a hash file for the result and let the server validate it. This can be done with STARCODE (1) Is there a way to monitor results without storing a file on a persons computer? In my match history I can see all the custom games I've played, the result and who the other players were. If I played a custom 1v1, could a program look up my profile and my opponents, confirm we played each other on the same map at the same time and record the result? | ||
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On January 05 2011 05:04 Keitzer wrote: the reason why iCCup is able to shift so many maps so fast is because 1. the game is already considered balanced 2. iCCup ONLY works on maps, not balancing the game like Blizzard does 3. Blizzard is also working on 2 more expansions, HoTS and LoTV 1. The game is already considered balanced for the Blizzard mapmakers as well. 2. There's different teams working on different things, the mapmaking team doesn't balance the game, the art department doesn't code battle.net, the sound guys doesn't draw kerrigan. The mapmaking team creates maps. 3. Pretty valid point, the mapmakers are probably focusing most of their resources on heart of the swarm and projects like DotA2, but then they should really reprioritize some or open up a few positions there for people dedicated to keeping the ladder pool healthy. Edit; No matter what anyone says, you can't justify Blizzard not correcting simple stuff on some maps, like the Scrap Station distance from main to ramp being different for each side. Such things should have been fixed two hours after they got noticed. Oh, and I hope Blizzard totally doesn't shut the OP down, I'd love for someone to create a custom ladder as long as they did it good :p | ||
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MavercK
Australia2181 Posts
On January 05 2011 08:11 SixtusTheFifth wrote: Is there a way to monitor results without storing a file on a persons computer? In my match history I can see all the custom games I've played, the result and who the other players were. If I played a custom 1v1, could a program look up my profile and my opponents, confirm we played each other on the same map at the same time and record the result? that would require memory reading. which is against blizzard's ToS. also the post above me should realise the team for sc2 is very very very small. they dont have an "art" department for example. Blizzard does and i bet your ass it's more of a World of Warcraft Art Department that occasionally does things for other stuff aswell. | ||
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On January 05 2011 08:23 MavercK wrote: also the post above me should realise the team for sc2 is very very very small. they dont have an "art" department for example. Blizzard does and i bet your ass it's more of a World of Warcraft Art Department that occasionally does things for other stuff aswell. Never said it was big, only that they have dedicated people who does the jobs, Blizzard mapmakers being slow and terrible because they are balancing the game is just wrong because they're not, they're making maps while other people are dedicated to balancing the game. | ||
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HollowLord
United States3862 Posts
Although now that I think about it, Sc2gears reads your replays and determines whether you won or lost something. Not sure if it works for Custom games, but if it did then maybe a similar method could be used. | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
On January 05 2011 08:17 Ighox wrote: 1. The game is already considered balanced for the Blizzard mapmakers as well. 2. There's different teams working on different things, the mapmaking team doesn't balance the game, the art department doesn't code battle.net, the sound guys doesn't draw kerrigan. The mapmaking team creates maps. 3. Pretty valid point, the mapmakers are probably focusing most of their resources on heart of the swarm and projects like DotA2, but then they should really reprioritize some or open up a few positions there for people dedicated to keeping the ladder pool healthy. Edit; No matter what anyone says, you can't justify Blizzard not correcting simple stuff on some maps, like the Scrap Station distance from main to ramp being different for each side. Such things should have been fixed two hours after they got noticed. Oh, and I hope Blizzard totally doesn't shut the OP down, I'd love for someone to create a custom ladder as long as they did it good :p 1. hmm 2. see, i didn't know they had a special team for map making... or are you just assuming? 3. ya a few new people dedicated to better maps, say, a few from iCCup? anyways, i think i'd much rather have a custom ladder anyways... | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
On January 05 2011 09:07 HollowLord wrote: This would be really cool to see happen, though I'm fairly certain that using the SC2 memory banks is against the ToS. Although now that I think about it, Sc2gears reads your replays and determines whether you won or lost something. Not sure if it works for Custom games, but if it did then maybe a similar method could be used. we've discussed this over the past 7 pages... SC2Bank files are used in EVERY custom game... Battlecraft, SOTIS, etc... any game that saves data that can be used later... all this program would do is read the data from the file... that's it. nothing about reading a file (not modifying or enhancing, just analyzing the data) is against their ToS. If it was, then why the hell did they make SC2Bank files anyways? | ||
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shtdisturbance
Canada613 Posts
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On January 05 2011 09:07 Keitzer wrote: 2. see, i didn't know they had a special team for map making... or are you just assuming? .. They've said they have that at least, but yes they're probably spread out over a lot of things, DotA2 and similar projects, expansions, probably even D3 as the editor there probably is just a modified version of the SC2 one. But anyways, I think we can all agree on that they really need to focus their attention on the ladder pool at least instead of completely ignoring it :p On January 05 2011 09:12 shtdisturbance wrote: Im so down, i like iccup so much more than i like this ladder. I want to have the old ranks back not this diamond garbage. The diamond range is like iccups D-A in one division. You're not the only one missing ranks that actually means something, sadly the majority (the casual battle.net crowd who doesn't even know fansites exist) seems to like the Diamond way  | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
On January 05 2011 09:19 Ighox wrote: + Show Spoiler + They've said they have that at least, but yes they're probably spread out over a lot of things, DotA2 and similar projects, expansions, probably even D3 as the editor there probably is just a modified version of the SC2 one. But anyways, I think we can all agree on that they really need to focus their attention on the ladder pool at least instead of completely ignoring it :p You're not the only one missing ranks that actually means something, sadly the majority (the casual battle.net crowd who doesn't even know fansites exist) seems to like the Diamond way so these casuals will get promoted to diamond while all the "good" players will play on this custom ladder? | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On January 04 2011 11:27 GizmoPT wrote: sure is people still thinking they can do better than blizzard.. you guys are never happy with what you got if blizzard had made exactly what you say you would find some reasons to criticize it anyway people already have done better than blizzard. you joined in 2010 so im guessing you dont know the history of servers like gamei, pgtour and iccup. blizzard's services for the interests of the users of those servers was nearly non-existent. to say that those servers were better than blizzard's servers is not a big enough compliment to those servers. we got low latency play from those servers, something that blizzard still hasnt delivered to SC:BW. we got low latency play between Korea, NA, SA and Europe, something blizzard still hasn't delivered to SC2. we got ladders, something blizzard stopped providing since around 2000. for sc2, i'd imagine these servers could provide a ladder that works better for a smaller group of people. they could also provide lower latency play across continents | ||
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confusedcrib
United States1307 Posts
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
On January 05 2011 09:30 Liquid`Tyler wrote: people already have done better than blizzard. you joined in 2010 so im guessing you dont know the history of servers like gamei, pgtour and iccup. blizzard's services for the interests of the users of those servers was nearly non-existent. to say that those servers were better than blizzard's servers is not a big enough compliment to those servers. we got low latency play from those servers, something that blizzard still hasnt delivered to SC:BW. we got low latency play between Korea, NA, SA and Europe, something blizzard still hasn't delivered to SC2. we got ladders, something blizzard stopped providing since around 2000. for sc2, i'd imagine these servers could provide a ladder that works better for a smaller group of people. they could also provide lower latency play across continents well i've got a question for you Tyler (since you play at MLG and other events) would you play with this system if they had better maps ? -OR- would only if they used the same maps at the tournaments? aka, would you still use Blizzard's ladder over this new one since it has the maps you need to practice on? | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On January 05 2011 08:11 SixtusTheFifth wrote: Is there a way to monitor results without storing a file on a persons computer? In my match history I can see all the custom games I've played, the result and who the other players were. If I played a custom 1v1, could a program look up my profile and my opponents, confirm we played each other on the same map at the same time and record the result? Can maps be made "private" so that people cannot see the details / triggers / scripts of the map? If yes, I think it should be possible to make it save. When 1st installing the software & setting up an account for this "external" ladder, create an unique Banks file (should be possible, it's plaintext) which the user has to download and store in his folders. These Banks files can contain unique keys for each user. With these keys and additional "secret" information stored in the map itself it should be possible to encrypt the results. Those are transmitted and restored on the ladder server which checks if everything is in order. Since your opponent "should" report the results as well, you can even mark accounts which often report different results compared to their opponents. If the accounts have enough marks ban them. | ||
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linduxed
Sweden111 Posts
I love the idea of a larger amount of people play maps like the iCCup ones competitively. | ||
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