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On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today.
Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2.
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i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool.
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On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool.
While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned".
Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs.
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On January 07 2011 08:52 GreEny K wrote:
Why do so many people support this... The bonus pool is not a big enough deal to warrant a new server, all you would do is separate the players because some would go to the new server and some would stay out.
It's not about the bonus pool. The player pool is large enough to sustain a split. The bad players wouldn't feel the need to play on a custom ladder anyway so this would be a rather small community anyway (which is a good thing, rather than a bad thing)
On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs.
Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so.
On January 07 2011 09:33 FindingPride wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today. Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2.
Yes I can imagine that. Ladder sucks. The current map pool is a piece of shit and Blizzard actively prevents the largest tournament in the world from using customs maps (and by effect makes it INCREDIBLY hard for smaller tournaments to do so). While this is happening we have had maps that are universally hated like Steppes, Blistering and Delta in the map pool FOR CENTURIES. Blizzard doesn't care. You could very clearly hear in their Blizzcon panels that they don't really care for map making. "eh, yeah we wanted people to have rushy games when they first played too" "if the community wants other maps they can make em no prob ezpz" (while disallowing GSL from doing the same thing) Their team is so small and they have such a large player base that map balance & the map pool is not one of their top priorities, they dont really see it as their job after they have released this awesome map editor that allows for 10mb map uploads that officially belong to them....
Just because Bnet2.0 was shitty in the beginning doesn't mean we have to praise it because it is less shitty now. Things like no LAN, frequent lag, and still having to re-log at least every week because bnet just bugs out is not something that we must protect with all our effort. If Blizzard doesn't deliver in the way the community wants, the community will help itself with all available means.
So far Blizzard is showing no signs of wanting to actively maintain a map pool with the input of the community. As such it isn't surprising that people want to take matters in their owns hands, since the success and prosperity of the BW scene depended so heavily on the maps the game was played on.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2011 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:52 GreEny K wrote:
Why do so many people support this... The bonus pool is not a big enough deal to warrant a new server, all you would do is separate the players because some would go to the new server and some would stay out. It's not about the bonus pool. The player pool is large enough to sustain a split. The bad players wouldn't feel the need to play on a custom ladder anyway so this would be a rather small community anyway (which is a good thing, rather than a bad thing) Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs. Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:33 FindingPride wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today. Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2. Yes I can imagine that. Ladder sucks. The current map pool is a piece of shit and Blizzard actively prevents the largest tournament in the world from using customs maps (and by effect makes it INCREDIBLY hard for smaller tournaments to do so). While this is happening we have had maps that are universally hated like Steppes, Blistering and Delta in the map pool FOR CENTURIES. Blizzard doesn't care. You could very clearly hear in their Blizzcon panels that they don't really care for map making. "eh, yeah we wanted people to have rushy games when they first played too" "if the community wants other maps they can make em no prob ezpz" (while disallowing GSL from doing the same thing) Their team is so small and they have such a large player base that map balance & the map pool is not one of their top priorities, they dont really see it as their job after they have released this awesome map editor that allows for 10mb map uploads that officially belong to them.... Just because Bnet2.0 was shitty in the beginning doesn't mean we have to praise it because it is less shitty now. Things like no LAN, frequent lag, and still having to re-log at least every week because bnet just bugs out is not something that we must protect with all our effort. If Blizzard doesn't deliver in the way the community wants, the community will help itself with all available means. So far Blizzard is showing no signs of wanting to actively maintain a map pool with the input of the community. As such it isn't surprising that people want to take matters in their owns hands, since the success and prosperity of the BW scene depended so heavily on the maps the game was played on.
Well the thing is, this isn't just publishing a map, it's trying to set up a ladder that will directly compete with blizzards.
Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept.
I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control.
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On January 07 2011 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs. Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so..
totally agree with this.
its a BLIZZARD server using BLIZZARD'S editor and requiring to BUY the game...
all this does (like pretty much every page and the OP states) is make an SC2Bank file (like many other customs) and a 3rd party PROGRAM (NOT SERVER) reads this data, and does stuff with it there..
it doesn't interfere with blizzard's server, purchase rate, or activity.
sure a few people might switch to this custom ladder but what really is going to happen is a few "dedicated" players will switch while the rest stay on ladder since tournaments use that instead of the custom maps (which would be the next big change which WILL require others besides just the community.)
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On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:
Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept.
I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control.
refer to my post above ^^
and if you're confused because i said "program, not server"
is because it doesn't connect to a server like iCCup does... the program does, not starcraft
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On January 07 2011 10:04 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:
Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept.
I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control.
refer to my post above ^^ and if you're confused because i said "program, not server" is because it doesn't connect to a server like iCCup does... the program does, not starcraft
Hmmm I misunderstood the data bank thing 
But then that leads me to the question: how much can you store in the data banks?
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On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2011 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:52 GreEny K wrote:
Why do so many people support this... The bonus pool is not a big enough deal to warrant a new server, all you would do is separate the players because some would go to the new server and some would stay out. It's not about the bonus pool. The player pool is large enough to sustain a split. The bad players wouldn't feel the need to play on a custom ladder anyway so this would be a rather small community anyway (which is a good thing, rather than a bad thing) Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs. Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:33 FindingPride wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today. Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2. Yes I can imagine that. Ladder sucks. The current map pool is a piece of shit and Blizzard actively prevents the largest tournament in the world from using customs maps (and by effect makes it INCREDIBLY hard for smaller tournaments to do so). While this is happening we have had maps that are universally hated like Steppes, Blistering and Delta in the map pool FOR CENTURIES. Blizzard doesn't care. You could very clearly hear in their Blizzcon panels that they don't really care for map making. "eh, yeah we wanted people to have rushy games when they first played too" "if the community wants other maps they can make em no prob ezpz" (while disallowing GSL from doing the same thing) Their team is so small and they have such a large player base that map balance & the map pool is not one of their top priorities, they dont really see it as their job after they have released this awesome map editor that allows for 10mb map uploads that officially belong to them.... Just because Bnet2.0 was shitty in the beginning doesn't mean we have to praise it because it is less shitty now. Things like no LAN, frequent lag, and still having to re-log at least every week because bnet just bugs out is not something that we must protect with all our effort. If Blizzard doesn't deliver in the way the community wants, the community will help itself with all available means. So far Blizzard is showing no signs of wanting to actively maintain a map pool with the input of the community. As such it isn't surprising that people want to take matters in their owns hands, since the success and prosperity of the BW scene depended so heavily on the maps the game was played on. Well the thing is, this isn't just publishing a map, it's trying to set up a ladder that will directly compete with blizzards. Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept. I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control.
No you have absolutely no idea how big of a deal it is to make 3 million people agree to a new EULA.
I plainly don't think they will care and it isn't like iccup that involves a completely new system + allows for illegal downloads this is just a server somewhere that generats a rating and people play on maps that sends data to that server. nothing special and i frankly dont see why they would give a shit
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On January 07 2011 10:12 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2011 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:52 GreEny K wrote:
Why do so many people support this... The bonus pool is not a big enough deal to warrant a new server, all you would do is separate the players because some would go to the new server and some would stay out. It's not about the bonus pool. The player pool is large enough to sustain a split. The bad players wouldn't feel the need to play on a custom ladder anyway so this would be a rather small community anyway (which is a good thing, rather than a bad thing) Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs. Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:33 FindingPride wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today. Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2. Yes I can imagine that. Ladder sucks. The current map pool is a piece of shit and Blizzard actively prevents the largest tournament in the world from using customs maps (and by effect makes it INCREDIBLY hard for smaller tournaments to do so). While this is happening we have had maps that are universally hated like Steppes, Blistering and Delta in the map pool FOR CENTURIES. Blizzard doesn't care. You could very clearly hear in their Blizzcon panels that they don't really care for map making. "eh, yeah we wanted people to have rushy games when they first played too" "if the community wants other maps they can make em no prob ezpz" (while disallowing GSL from doing the same thing) Their team is so small and they have such a large player base that map balance & the map pool is not one of their top priorities, they dont really see it as their job after they have released this awesome map editor that allows for 10mb map uploads that officially belong to them.... Just because Bnet2.0 was shitty in the beginning doesn't mean we have to praise it because it is less shitty now. Things like no LAN, frequent lag, and still having to re-log at least every week because bnet just bugs out is not something that we must protect with all our effort. If Blizzard doesn't deliver in the way the community wants, the community will help itself with all available means. So far Blizzard is showing no signs of wanting to actively maintain a map pool with the input of the community. As such it isn't surprising that people want to take matters in their owns hands, since the success and prosperity of the BW scene depended so heavily on the maps the game was played on. Well the thing is, this isn't just publishing a map, it's trying to set up a ladder that will directly compete with blizzards. Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept. I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control. No you have absolutely no idea how big of a deal it is to make 3 million people agree to a new EULA. I plainly don't think they will care and it isn't like iccup that involves a completely new system + allows for illegal downloads this is just a server somewhere that generats a rating and people play on maps that sends data to that server. nothing special and i frankly dont see why they would give a shit
it's done all the time
you agree to the EULA if you want to play the game
if they update it they make you re-accept the EULA to login to the game
simple. they do it ALL THE TIME.
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On January 07 2011 10:19 MavercK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:12 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2011 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:52 GreEny K wrote:
Why do so many people support this... The bonus pool is not a big enough deal to warrant a new server, all you would do is separate the players because some would go to the new server and some would stay out. It's not about the bonus pool. The player pool is large enough to sustain a split. The bad players wouldn't feel the need to play on a custom ladder anyway so this would be a rather small community anyway (which is a good thing, rather than a bad thing) Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs. Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:33 FindingPride wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today. Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2. Yes I can imagine that. Ladder sucks. The current map pool is a piece of shit and Blizzard actively prevents the largest tournament in the world from using customs maps (and by effect makes it INCREDIBLY hard for smaller tournaments to do so). While this is happening we have had maps that are universally hated like Steppes, Blistering and Delta in the map pool FOR CENTURIES. Blizzard doesn't care. You could very clearly hear in their Blizzcon panels that they don't really care for map making. "eh, yeah we wanted people to have rushy games when they first played too" "if the community wants other maps they can make em no prob ezpz" (while disallowing GSL from doing the same thing) Their team is so small and they have such a large player base that map balance & the map pool is not one of their top priorities, they dont really see it as their job after they have released this awesome map editor that allows for 10mb map uploads that officially belong to them.... Just because Bnet2.0 was shitty in the beginning doesn't mean we have to praise it because it is less shitty now. Things like no LAN, frequent lag, and still having to re-log at least every week because bnet just bugs out is not something that we must protect with all our effort. If Blizzard doesn't deliver in the way the community wants, the community will help itself with all available means. So far Blizzard is showing no signs of wanting to actively maintain a map pool with the input of the community. As such it isn't surprising that people want to take matters in their owns hands, since the success and prosperity of the BW scene depended so heavily on the maps the game was played on. Well the thing is, this isn't just publishing a map, it's trying to set up a ladder that will directly compete with blizzards. Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept. I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control. No you have absolutely no idea how big of a deal it is to make 3 million people agree to a new EULA. I plainly don't think they will care and it isn't like iccup that involves a completely new system + allows for illegal downloads this is just a server somewhere that generats a rating and people play on maps that sends data to that server. nothing special and i frankly dont see why they would give a shit it's done all the time you agree to the EULA if you want to play the game if they update it they make you re-accept the EULA to login to the game simple. they do it ALL THE TIME.
Nice job completely shutting off your brain after the first sentence in my post. Maybe try again? I said 1 custom map doesn't warrant 3 million ppl agreeing to a new EULA. Got it now?
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On January 07 2011 10:21 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:19 MavercK wrote:On January 07 2011 10:12 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2011 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:52 GreEny K wrote:
Why do so many people support this... The bonus pool is not a big enough deal to warrant a new server, all you would do is separate the players because some would go to the new server and some would stay out. It's not about the bonus pool. The player pool is large enough to sustain a split. The bad players wouldn't feel the need to play on a custom ladder anyway so this would be a rather small community anyway (which is a good thing, rather than a bad thing) Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs. Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:33 FindingPride wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today. Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2. Yes I can imagine that. Ladder sucks. The current map pool is a piece of shit and Blizzard actively prevents the largest tournament in the world from using customs maps (and by effect makes it INCREDIBLY hard for smaller tournaments to do so). While this is happening we have had maps that are universally hated like Steppes, Blistering and Delta in the map pool FOR CENTURIES. Blizzard doesn't care. You could very clearly hear in their Blizzcon panels that they don't really care for map making. "eh, yeah we wanted people to have rushy games when they first played too" "if the community wants other maps they can make em no prob ezpz" (while disallowing GSL from doing the same thing) Their team is so small and they have such a large player base that map balance & the map pool is not one of their top priorities, they dont really see it as their job after they have released this awesome map editor that allows for 10mb map uploads that officially belong to them.... Just because Bnet2.0 was shitty in the beginning doesn't mean we have to praise it because it is less shitty now. Things like no LAN, frequent lag, and still having to re-log at least every week because bnet just bugs out is not something that we must protect with all our effort. If Blizzard doesn't deliver in the way the community wants, the community will help itself with all available means. So far Blizzard is showing no signs of wanting to actively maintain a map pool with the input of the community. As such it isn't surprising that people want to take matters in their owns hands, since the success and prosperity of the BW scene depended so heavily on the maps the game was played on. Well the thing is, this isn't just publishing a map, it's trying to set up a ladder that will directly compete with blizzards. Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept. I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control. No you have absolutely no idea how big of a deal it is to make 3 million people agree to a new EULA. I plainly don't think they will care and it isn't like iccup that involves a completely new system + allows for illegal downloads this is just a server somewhere that generats a rating and people play on maps that sends data to that server. nothing special and i frankly dont see why they would give a shit it's done all the time you agree to the EULA if you want to play the game if they update it they make you re-accept the EULA to login to the game simple. they do it ALL THE TIME. Nice job completely shutting off your brain after the first sentence in my post. Maybe try again? I said 1 custom map doesn't warrant 3 million ppl agreeing to a new EULA. Got it now?
it does if it's something they dont want to happen? i dont understand why this is even an issue.
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On January 07 2011 10:11 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:04 Keitzer wrote:On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:
Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept.
I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control.
refer to my post above ^^ and if you're confused because i said "program, not server" is because it doesn't connect to a server like iCCup does... the program does, not starcraft Hmmm I misunderstood the data bank thing But then that leads me to the question: how much can you store in the data banks?
Just take a look at your own bank files:
C:\Users\<user>\Documents\StarCraft II\Accounts\<number>\<number>\Banks
They're normal XML files. So their size is basically unlimited. Though to save the needed information I doubt it to be bigger than 3kb 
Of course if you would want to save your whole history of all games it would be bigger - but just saving the most recent one would be enough.
On January 07 2011 10:27 MavercK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:21 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 10:19 MavercK wrote:On January 07 2011 10:12 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2011 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:52 GreEny K wrote:
Why do so many people support this... The bonus pool is not a big enough deal to warrant a new server, all you would do is separate the players because some would go to the new server and some would stay out. It's not about the bonus pool. The player pool is large enough to sustain a split. The bad players wouldn't feel the need to play on a custom ladder anyway so this would be a rather small community anyway (which is a good thing, rather than a bad thing) Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs. Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:33 FindingPride wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today. Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2. Yes I can imagine that. Ladder sucks. The current map pool is a piece of shit and Blizzard actively prevents the largest tournament in the world from using customs maps (and by effect makes it INCREDIBLY hard for smaller tournaments to do so). While this is happening we have had maps that are universally hated like Steppes, Blistering and Delta in the map pool FOR CENTURIES. Blizzard doesn't care. You could very clearly hear in their Blizzcon panels that they don't really care for map making. "eh, yeah we wanted people to have rushy games when they first played too" "if the community wants other maps they can make em no prob ezpz" (while disallowing GSL from doing the same thing) Their team is so small and they have such a large player base that map balance & the map pool is not one of their top priorities, they dont really see it as their job after they have released this awesome map editor that allows for 10mb map uploads that officially belong to them.... Just because Bnet2.0 was shitty in the beginning doesn't mean we have to praise it because it is less shitty now. Things like no LAN, frequent lag, and still having to re-log at least every week because bnet just bugs out is not something that we must protect with all our effort. If Blizzard doesn't deliver in the way the community wants, the community will help itself with all available means. So far Blizzard is showing no signs of wanting to actively maintain a map pool with the input of the community. As such it isn't surprising that people want to take matters in their owns hands, since the success and prosperity of the BW scene depended so heavily on the maps the game was played on. Well the thing is, this isn't just publishing a map, it's trying to set up a ladder that will directly compete with blizzards. Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept. I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control. No you have absolutely no idea how big of a deal it is to make 3 million people agree to a new EULA. I plainly don't think they will care and it isn't like iccup that involves a completely new system + allows for illegal downloads this is just a server somewhere that generats a rating and people play on maps that sends data to that server. nothing special and i frankly dont see why they would give a shit it's done all the time you agree to the EULA if you want to play the game if they update it they make you re-accept the EULA to login to the game simple. they do it ALL THE TIME. Nice job completely shutting off your brain after the first sentence in my post. Maybe try again? I said 1 custom map doesn't warrant 3 million ppl agreeing to a new EULA. Got it now? it does if it's something they dont want to happen? i dont understand why this is even an issue.
How would they want to change the EULA to prevent the reading of those files?
"Third party software is not allowed to access any files related to the game"?
Virus scanners, defragmentation programs, compression programs, the OS itself.
And no they cannot just go ahead and say "all forbidden" - because some countries (i.e. Germany) has same pretty good laws concerning EULAs / TOS and their legality.
So it's not that easy for them to just add something to prevent it
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On January 07 2011 13:22 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:11 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 10:04 Keitzer wrote:On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:
Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept.
I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control.
refer to my post above ^^ and if you're confused because i said "program, not server" is because it doesn't connect to a server like iCCup does... the program does, not starcraft Hmmm I misunderstood the data bank thing But then that leads me to the question: how much can you store in the data banks? Just take a look at your own bank files: C:\Users\<user>\Documents\StarCraft II\Accounts\<number>\<number>\Banks They're normal XML files. So their size is basically unlimited. Though to save the needed information I doubt it to be bigger than 3kb Of course if you would want to save your whole history of all games it would be bigger - but just saving the most recent one would be enough. + Show Spoiler +On January 07 2011 10:27 MavercK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:21 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 10:19 MavercK wrote:On January 07 2011 10:12 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 10:02 DonKey_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2011 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:52 GreEny K wrote:
Why do so many people support this... The bonus pool is not a big enough deal to warrant a new server, all you would do is separate the players because some would go to the new server and some would stay out. It's not about the bonus pool. The player pool is large enough to sustain a split. The bad players wouldn't feel the need to play on a custom ladder anyway so this would be a rather small community anyway (which is a good thing, rather than a bad thing) Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:40 DonKey_ wrote:On January 07 2011 09:35 universalwill wrote:
i think you just found a loophole, my friend. blizzard specifically forbids 3rd party servers in their EULA... but this is different. this is played on blizzard's servers. an outside program reads and records the results of the game and publishes it to an outside ladder...
very interesting idea. i think that a custom ladder like this could become very popular if blizzard continues to do nothing about the current map pool. While I'm not against the idea of starting our own ladder I just find it hard to believe Blizzard would allow such a thing since it's not "blizzard sanctioned". Also even if there is a loophole in the EULA they could just instantly change it to suit their needs. Yeah they're gonna make every single player on every server agree to the new EULA because some1 publishes a map that allows for a rating to be generated elsewhere. I don't think so. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:33 FindingPride wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today. Actually with the new features in SC2 And with it being much more new user friendly it allows SC2 to grow beyond its predecessor. Could you imagine logging into sc2 then going into a chat channel and showing off ur uber ladder icon only to hear people say, lol ladder sucks you gotta play this custom ladder if u want to play good people. i mean cmon? why not just have it all in front of us instead of having to jump through hoops to get into the sc2 community. Thats just bad development and i think SC2 has come a long way in that regard so that the community can stay within the system that blizzard designed for us. Do not forget that blizzard is adding a huge patch that will finally allow chat channels. And in the future im sure we're going to see alot new maps coming from GSL and other tourneys that will get integrated into the map pool. They did it with wc3 and that wasn't nearly as big as sc2. Yes I can imagine that. Ladder sucks. The current map pool is a piece of shit and Blizzard actively prevents the largest tournament in the world from using customs maps (and by effect makes it INCREDIBLY hard for smaller tournaments to do so). While this is happening we have had maps that are universally hated like Steppes, Blistering and Delta in the map pool FOR CENTURIES. Blizzard doesn't care. You could very clearly hear in their Blizzcon panels that they don't really care for map making. "eh, yeah we wanted people to have rushy games when they first played too" "if the community wants other maps they can make em no prob ezpz" (while disallowing GSL from doing the same thing) Their team is so small and they have such a large player base that map balance & the map pool is not one of their top priorities, they dont really see it as their job after they have released this awesome map editor that allows for 10mb map uploads that officially belong to them.... Just because Bnet2.0 was shitty in the beginning doesn't mean we have to praise it because it is less shitty now. Things like no LAN, frequent lag, and still having to re-log at least every week because bnet just bugs out is not something that we must protect with all our effort. If Blizzard doesn't deliver in the way the community wants, the community will help itself with all available means. So far Blizzard is showing no signs of wanting to actively maintain a map pool with the input of the community. As such it isn't surprising that people want to take matters in their owns hands, since the success and prosperity of the BW scene depended so heavily on the maps the game was played on. Well the thing is, this isn't just publishing a map, it's trying to set up a ladder that will directly compete with blizzards. Yes I do believe they would make every single player agree to a new EULA. Because the VAST majority doesn't care what it says and will simply skip to the bottom of it and click accept. I just don't see how blizzard would let something like this go when they are so concerned about having everything under their control. No you have absolutely no idea how big of a deal it is to make 3 million people agree to a new EULA. I plainly don't think they will care and it isn't like iccup that involves a completely new system + allows for illegal downloads this is just a server somewhere that generats a rating and people play on maps that sends data to that server. nothing special and i frankly dont see why they would give a shit it's done all the time you agree to the EULA if you want to play the game if they update it they make you re-accept the EULA to login to the game simple. they do it ALL THE TIME. Nice job completely shutting off your brain after the first sentence in my post. Maybe try again? I said 1 custom map doesn't warrant 3 million ppl agreeing to a new EULA. Got it now? it does if it's something they dont want to happen? i dont understand why this is even an issue. How would they want to change the EULA to prevent the reading of those files? "Third party software is not allowed to access any files related to the game"? Virus scanners, defragmentation programs, compression programs, the OS itself. And no they cannot just go ahead and say "all forbidden" - because some countries (i.e. Germany) has same pretty good laws concerning EULAs / TOS and their legality. So it's not that easy for them to just add something to prevent it
ahh, however, the OP said the program (im assuming currently) only check the file when it notices a size increase (due to data addition)
so my guess is that it'll have the entire history.. of which will get very massive after say, 500 games?
and if it keeps EVERY GAME... why not keep the ratings on the file like it does in any other custom? (assuming you don't move computers)
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bank files can be used to save anything
a comprehensive ladder would be able to do amazing things
be able to produce almost unlimited stats about a game or player.
you'd be able to count workers/units/minerals/upgrades anything
you'd be able to display all this information on the ladder website
you could have player averages displayed on the players profile
obviously some plays wouldn't want this a simple on/off option on their ladder account.
seriously the possibilities for this for the community are massive.
almost everything thats wrong with battle.net 2.0 can be fixed externally.
this stuff has me super excited
i dont give a damn about sc2 ladder
but this lets me do a ladder for my brood war remake mod
this lets other custom maps do some sort of competitive ladder. like sotis or star battle.
power to the community. let it happen. you'll be amazed.
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On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote:
in response to the recent hate, I support this because:
- I do not enjoy the ladder anymore, because I've grown tired of using the same strategies again and again, which I am forced to use against people who use their own same strategies again and again, on the same maps, again and again. Will this solve everything? I doubt it, but it will bring me back some interest in the game. Will Blizzard solve this, maybe better? It can be, but why should I wait months, maybe years, if things can be better now?
- without community mods and related development, the game will die much much sooner than it would otherwise. Saying that this kind of an effort will hurt the community downright stupid or in mala fide. Without a thriving mod scene there will simply be no community very soon; blizzard will let the game die when its focus will shift on the next game. imagine if the only multiplayer scene for brood war would have been battle.net. We probably wouldnt even have starcraft 2 today.
Well hot damn You hate using the same strategies over and over again? Well then you're playing the wrong game. You are wrong you should have to keep using the same strat and perfect it much like SC1. On another note, I would not support a custom ladder on Bnet 2.0 because unless tournaments run off those maps it would hurt the player base as a whole looking to practice on the blizzard maps. Also the map pool isn't that bad right now with the removal of older maps such as kulas and desert oasis.
Ninja Edit: We need to give SC2 more than 5 months to get actual balanced maps. Even BW had redonc maps during the first 10 years of its life and look at it now its doing pretty well with its map pool good maps take a hell of a lot of testing to actually balance out custom maps or blizzard maps.
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On January 07 2011 14:00 Fdragon wrote:Also the map pool isn't that bad right now with the removal of older maps such as kulas and desert oasis.
and shakuras!
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On January 07 2011 14:06 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 14:00 Fdragon wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote: Also the map pool isn't that bad right now with the removal of older maps such as kulas and desert oasis. and shakuras!
D= Noooo We liked that one!
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On January 07 2011 14:10 Fdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 14:06 Keitzer wrote:On January 07 2011 14:00 Fdragon wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote: Also the map pool isn't that bad right now with the removal of older maps such as kulas and desert oasis. and shakuras! D= Noooo We liked that one!
mhmm, yet b/c of one bug, they removed it... NOT HOTFIX... REMOVED!
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On January 07 2011 14:11 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 14:10 Fdragon wrote:On January 07 2011 14:06 Keitzer wrote:On January 07 2011 14:00 Fdragon wrote:On January 07 2011 09:26 dementrio wrote: Also the map pool isn't that bad right now with the removal of older maps such as kulas and desert oasis. and shakuras! D= Noooo We liked that one! mhmm, yet b/c of one bug, they removed it... NOT HOTFIX... REMOVED!
Accursed Toss ruin everything =(
Last post for me don't want to spam to hard.
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EPT
