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I support any initiative to implement playable maps.
Gw sir.
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If you can get iCCup to get behind this, things will get big very, very fast.
edit: Actually if GSL doesn't support the maps from this hypothetical custom ladder and no other large tournaments use these same maps, you most likely will not get the support of professional gamers. Sorry, but it's true.
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this seems like a realy good project!
full support from me!
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There is no way to prevent score cheating with this method, and a hash isn't going to do it, they can just edit the file and then regen the hash.. Encrypting won't work either, as the encryption code has to be hardcoded somewhere and available for the client to use. Sure, most people don't know how to do this, but it doesn't matter as it only takes a single person to write a script for it and bang, its available to everybody.
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I heard server emulator is coming out soon (maybe within the next month). Might help a bit, but it would probably have too many bugs to serve a lot of players (might not even have the functionality to do more than 8 I think).
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On January 07 2011 20:15 Xapti wrote:
I heard server emulator is coming out soon (maybe within the next month). Might help a bit, but it would probably have too many bugs to serve a lot of players (might not even have the functionality to do more than 8 I think).
got a source? couldnt find anything using google
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On January 07 2011 19:41 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
There is no way to prevent score cheating with this method, and a hash isn't going to do it, they can just edit the file and then regen the hash.. Encrypting won't work either, as the encryption code has to be hardcoded somewhere and available for the client to use. Sure, most people don't know how to do this, but it doesn't matter as it only takes a single person to write a script for it and bang, its available to everybody.
It's enough to block the majority. There's a different level of effort required to change the results when they're protected by encryption. Sure - some people will encouraged to break the system because of the challenge. Also you can change the hardcoded stuff whenever you want.
And then you can check the reported results if they still use the old encryption -> ban.
100% protection cannot be achieved of course - but isnt neccessary.
Also the most important factor: since you get results from both players you can check for integrity.
If some player often reports different results compared to his opponents you'll see that. What happens then is open to administration.
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On January 07 2011 22:11 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 19:41 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
There is no way to prevent score cheating with this method, and a hash isn't going to do it, they can just edit the file and then regen the hash.. Encrypting won't work either, as the encryption code has to be hardcoded somewhere and available for the client to use. Sure, most people don't know how to do this, but it doesn't matter as it only takes a single person to write a script for it and bang, its available to everybody. It's enough to block the majority. There's a different level of effort required to change the results when they're protected by encryption. Sure - some people will encouraged to break the system because of the challenge. Also you can change the hardcoded stuff whenever you want. And then you can check the reported results if they still use the old encryption -> ban. 100% protection cannot be achieved of course - but isnt neccessary. Also the most important factor: since you get results from both players you can check for integrity. If some player often reports different results compared to his opponents you'll see that. What happens then is open to administration.
This is a very good point.
Also there isn't a strong incentive to cheat this custom ladder. It's not going to get you sponsorship deals, tournament invitations or wide recognition from the public. You also can't just cheat the heck out of it since irregularities will cause suspicion and what is a slightly higher rank gonna do for you, you'll just get destroyed more by better players.
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On January 07 2011 22:18 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 22:11 Zocat wrote:On January 07 2011 19:41 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
There is no way to prevent score cheating with this method, and a hash isn't going to do it, they can just edit the file and then regen the hash.. Encrypting won't work either, as the encryption code has to be hardcoded somewhere and available for the client to use. Sure, most people don't know how to do this, but it doesn't matter as it only takes a single person to write a script for it and bang, its available to everybody. It's enough to block the majority. There's a different level of effort required to change the results when they're protected by encryption. Sure - some people will encouraged to break the system because of the challenge. Also you can change the hardcoded stuff whenever you want. And then you can check the reported results if they still use the old encryption -> ban. 100% protection cannot be achieved of course - but isnt neccessary. Also the most important factor: since you get results from both players you can check for integrity. If some player often reports different results compared to his opponents you'll see that. What happens then is open to administration. This is a very good point. Also there isn't a strong incentive to cheat this custom ladder. It's not going to get you sponsorship deals, tournament invitations or wide recognition from the public. You also can't just cheat the heck out of it since irregularities will cause suspicion and what is a slightly higher rank gonna do for you, you'll just get destroyed more by better players.
he brought this up because on iCCup and blizzard's ladder, you CAN'T cheat...
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On January 08 2011 00:22 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 22:18 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 22:11 Zocat wrote:On January 07 2011 19:41 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
There is no way to prevent score cheating with this method, and a hash isn't going to do it, they can just edit the file and then regen the hash.. Encrypting won't work either, as the encryption code has to be hardcoded somewhere and available for the client to use. Sure, most people don't know how to do this, but it doesn't matter as it only takes a single person to write a script for it and bang, its available to everybody. It's enough to block the majority. There's a different level of effort required to change the results when they're protected by encryption. Sure - some people will encouraged to break the system because of the challenge. Also you can change the hardcoded stuff whenever you want. And then you can check the reported results if they still use the old encryption -> ban. 100% protection cannot be achieved of course - but isnt neccessary. Also the most important factor: since you get results from both players you can check for integrity. If some player often reports different results compared to his opponents you'll see that. What happens then is open to administration. This is a very good point. Also there isn't a strong incentive to cheat this custom ladder. It's not going to get you sponsorship deals, tournament invitations or wide recognition from the public. You also can't just cheat the heck out of it since irregularities will cause suspicion and what is a slightly higher rank gonna do for you, you'll just get destroyed more by better players. he brought this up because on iCCup and blizzard's ladder, you CAN'T cheat...
Yeah very funny, there's no map or loss hacks for sc2 ? get a clue
There will always be people trying to abuse the system. The challenge is to make it as hard and as unattractive as possible while trying to minimize the effects this has on the 'good' players.
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Waiting very very eagerly for this!
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On January 08 2011 00:36 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:22 Keitzer wrote:On January 07 2011 22:18 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 22:11 Zocat wrote:On January 07 2011 19:41 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
There is no way to prevent score cheating with this method, and a hash isn't going to do it, they can just edit the file and then regen the hash.. Encrypting won't work either, as the encryption code has to be hardcoded somewhere and available for the client to use. Sure, most people don't know how to do this, but it doesn't matter as it only takes a single person to write a script for it and bang, its available to everybody. It's enough to block the majority. There's a different level of effort required to change the results when they're protected by encryption. Sure - some people will encouraged to break the system because of the challenge. Also you can change the hardcoded stuff whenever you want. And then you can check the reported results if they still use the old encryption -> ban. 100% protection cannot be achieved of course - but isnt neccessary. Also the most important factor: since you get results from both players you can check for integrity. If some player often reports different results compared to his opponents you'll see that. What happens then is open to administration. This is a very good point. Also there isn't a strong incentive to cheat this custom ladder. It's not going to get you sponsorship deals, tournament invitations or wide recognition from the public. You also can't just cheat the heck out of it since irregularities will cause suspicion and what is a slightly higher rank gonna do for you, you'll just get destroyed more by better players. he brought this up because on iCCup and blizzard's ladder, you CAN'T cheat... Yeah very funny, there's no map or loss hacks for sc2 ? get a clue There will always be people trying to abuse the system. The challenge is to make it as hard and as unattractive as possible while trying to minimize the effects this has on the 'good' players.
map and loss hacks are different than just editing a file and saying you're A+ (or in blizzard's case, 3k diamond)... you can't... you still have to play all the games
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On January 08 2011 04:53 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:36 ChickenLips wrote:On January 08 2011 00:22 Keitzer wrote:On January 07 2011 22:18 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 22:11 Zocat wrote:On January 07 2011 19:41 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
There is no way to prevent score cheating with this method, and a hash isn't going to do it, they can just edit the file and then regen the hash.. Encrypting won't work either, as the encryption code has to be hardcoded somewhere and available for the client to use. Sure, most people don't know how to do this, but it doesn't matter as it only takes a single person to write a script for it and bang, its available to everybody. It's enough to block the majority. There's a different level of effort required to change the results when they're protected by encryption. Sure - some people will encouraged to break the system because of the challenge. Also you can change the hardcoded stuff whenever you want. And then you can check the reported results if they still use the old encryption -> ban. 100% protection cannot be achieved of course - but isnt neccessary. Also the most important factor: since you get results from both players you can check for integrity. If some player often reports different results compared to his opponents you'll see that. What happens then is open to administration. This is a very good point. Also there isn't a strong incentive to cheat this custom ladder. It's not going to get you sponsorship deals, tournament invitations or wide recognition from the public. You also can't just cheat the heck out of it since irregularities will cause suspicion and what is a slightly higher rank gonna do for you, you'll just get destroyed more by better players. he brought this up because on iCCup and blizzard's ladder, you CAN'T cheat... Yeah very funny, there's no map or loss hacks for sc2 ? get a clue There will always be people trying to abuse the system. The challenge is to make it as hard and as unattractive as possible while trying to minimize the effects this has on the 'good' players. map and loss hacks are different than just editing a file and saying you're A+ (or in blizzard's case, 3k diamond)... you can't... you still have to play all the games
I don't have much expertise in programming, I will leave that to those that have more of a clue, however I very much doubt that a custom ladder system wouldn't get suspicious of a new ID suddenly being A+ without having played the games. (Or other players reporting different results in those games)
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On January 08 2011 06:17 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 04:53 Keitzer wrote:On January 08 2011 00:36 ChickenLips wrote:On January 08 2011 00:22 Keitzer wrote:On January 07 2011 22:18 ChickenLips wrote:On January 07 2011 22:11 Zocat wrote:On January 07 2011 19:41 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
There is no way to prevent score cheating with this method, and a hash isn't going to do it, they can just edit the file and then regen the hash.. Encrypting won't work either, as the encryption code has to be hardcoded somewhere and available for the client to use. Sure, most people don't know how to do this, but it doesn't matter as it only takes a single person to write a script for it and bang, its available to everybody. It's enough to block the majority. There's a different level of effort required to change the results when they're protected by encryption. Sure - some people will encouraged to break the system because of the challenge. Also you can change the hardcoded stuff whenever you want. And then you can check the reported results if they still use the old encryption -> ban. 100% protection cannot be achieved of course - but isnt neccessary. Also the most important factor: since you get results from both players you can check for integrity. If some player often reports different results compared to his opponents you'll see that. What happens then is open to administration. This is a very good point. Also there isn't a strong incentive to cheat this custom ladder. It's not going to get you sponsorship deals, tournament invitations or wide recognition from the public. You also can't just cheat the heck out of it since irregularities will cause suspicion and what is a slightly higher rank gonna do for you, you'll just get destroyed more by better players. he brought this up because on iCCup and blizzard's ladder, you CAN'T cheat... Yeah very funny, there's no map or loss hacks for sc2 ? get a clue There will always be people trying to abuse the system. The challenge is to make it as hard and as unattractive as possible while trying to minimize the effects this has on the 'good' players. map and loss hacks are different than just editing a file and saying you're A+ (or in blizzard's case, 3k diamond)... you can't... you still have to play all the games I don't have much expertise in programming, I will leave that to those that have more of a clue, however I very much doubt that a custom ladder system wouldn't get suspicious of a new ID suddenly being A+ without having played the games. (Or other players reporting different results in those games)
well that's what im saying... Custom Game yes could EASILY have that... however, for you to get to say, 3k Diamond and be considered "good"... you still need to play all the games, even if you auto-win all of them.
Since i take programming, i know how easy files are to edit, but skilled enough to actually edit them myself (sometimes). However, that's the point of encrypting and hashing and all this other stuff since it's not a separate server that keeps the data, but rather the file which can easily be edited.
What they could do is TRY to make it like the blizzard authenticator where it randomly generates and 8-digit code (or something like that) that syncs with the server every 30 seconds. But even then it might be too much work for such little increased security.
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I think security should become an issue when we have something that works and that people use. It's still a lot of work until that happens and we should focus instead of theorycrafting what problems we might encounter in the future.
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On January 04 2011 04:55 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 04:52 PlaGuE_R wrote:
is this even possible with B.Net 2.0? I was under the impression that not only is the system meant for things like iCCup on BW not to work but that it's also agaisnt the terms of use? There is no such thing as an unhackable system. Yes it is against terms of use, but so was iCCup bw ladder.. Blizzard just didn't care. This kind of thing will only work then blizzard have given up on sc2 (might take a while). I suggest you discuss this in a darker place of the internetz. Until then, row row fight the power for a better map pool (and real chat channels  )
Actually technically iCCup wasn't against the ToS, as far as I know. However, Blizzard has explicitly said that they will aggressively shut down anything like iCCup for SC2.
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I hope Blizzard would just take over and make something let iccup or other individual create their own ladder with their own ladder map or rank.
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Wait wont blizzard stomp something like this? I do support it 100% though.
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On January 08 2011 11:06 miDnight_SC wrote:
I hope Blizzard would just take over and make something let iccup or other individual create their own ladder with their own ladder map or rank.
they would never.
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i 100% support you!
do us a favor and make this really happening
but how are you going to manage that other tournaments use "your" mappool?
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EPT
