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I wondering if people are having the same problem as I am. I am for the time being a 1.1k diamond player, but play people that are 2k in diamond pretty much every game. I feel as though Ive really improved as a player in the last couple of weeks and the ladder seems to be matching me up with very strong opponents.
+ Show Spoiler + Werk.136 61st in Valerian Kappa 1,161
I go about 50/50 as most people do, but I check the profile for people I play after every game and they're always a thousand points ahead of me, and the match is considered even. So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Anyone else having this problem? It sucks knowing you should be ranked higher and telling your friends your a measly 1k diamond...sad panda... anyways, be nice to me TL peeps
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hmm not sure if there's an error with ur bnet, even when im on 10 game winning streaks or w/e i play at best 300-400 points ahead of me
also, your rating honestly means nothing since they is quite a few imperfections with the bnet laddering system, so dont fret too much about being 1k as appose to 2k
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Correct me if I'm wrong but you should get more points for beating higher ranked opponents as they should be "favored"?? I believe that is typically based on MMR though, so I suppose there is some variation. However if you go truly do go 50/50, your rank will probably steadily increase. As when opponents are favored and you win you will garner more points as opposed to those you will lose for a loss...
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Yea i agree they totally should be favored but ive played like 20 games in the last few days where they're like 1900 points and its an even match its very bizzare
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On December 19 2010 17:34 TheSCII wrote:
hmm not sure if there's an error with ur bnet, even when im on 10 game winning streaks or w/e i play at best 300-400 points ahead of me
also, your rating honestly means nothing since they is quite a few imperfections with the bnet laddering system, so dont fret too much about being 1k as appose to 2k
I don't have that much time playing and I have only like 120 games and about that 1k but I don't remember the last time I played an opponent who was under 2k and I have even played over 2.5k diamonds.
I don't know how the system works but it's definately not the 300-400 for me.
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What's your bonus points like? As a 1k Diamond you should have a lot and going 50/50 should mean you're moving up quite quickly. Also how many games have you played? Some people feel that they aren't moving quickly when they've only played around 200-300 games.
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On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:I wondering if people are having the same problem as I am. I am for the time being a 1.1k diamond player, but play people that are 2k in diamond pretty much every game. I feel as though Ive really improved as a player in the last couple of weeks and the ladder seems to be matching me up with very strong opponents. + Show Spoiler + Werk.136 61st in Valerian Kappa 1,161 I go about 50/50 as most people do, but I check the profile for people I play after every game and they're always a thousand points ahead of me, and the match is considered even. So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Anyone else having this problem? It sucks knowing you should be ranked higher and telling your friends your a measly 1k diamond...sad panda... anyways, be nice to me TL peeps
I'm in a similar situation. I'm 850~ points, and go 50/50 with 1.8-2k point diamonds. I'm slowly inching my way up a few points at a time. When I calculate it I mostly get only a couple more points from the win/loss ratio. As I win 20 points, and lose like 15 points so it is so slow to gain up to the points of the guys I'm playing against. Some nights I'll go 10-10 and end up with like 20 extra points and it is frustrating. I don't want to mas games just to get to 2k points that I seem to be at.
Seems the system is really strange about this.
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lol this is why i said TL peeps be nice....as i posted above the people i am playing are not favored...therefore a 50/50 means staying in the same spot...and thanks to the guys that posted above, i will admit i havent played a tons of 1v1s only about 200 so ill play more n see if anything changes..im a gamer with a life wrapped in instant gratification so im a lil impatient WANT POINTS NOW BLARRGGG XD i understand...
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16968 Posts
After months of inactivity, I recently logged back online. I was a 1.3k before I quit, and was being matched up against 2.4k's in my ladder matches.
I'm much, MUCH worse now, and I lost both of the games I played.
And then I quit again. So yeah, fewer than ten games in the past six months.
Sigh.
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On December 19 2010 17:45 Stiver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:I wondering if people are having the same problem as I am. I am for the time being a 1.1k diamond player, but play people that are 2k in diamond pretty much every game. I feel as though Ive really improved as a player in the last couple of weeks and the ladder seems to be matching me up with very strong opponents. + Show Spoiler + Werk.136 61st in Valerian Kappa 1,161 I go about 50/50 as most people do, but I check the profile for people I play after every game and they're always a thousand points ahead of me, and the match is considered even. So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Anyone else having this problem? It sucks knowing you should be ranked higher and telling your friends your a measly 1k diamond...sad panda... anyways, be nice to me TL peeps I'm in a similar situation. I'm 850~ points, and go 50/50 with 1.8-2k point diamonds. I'm slowly inching my way up a few points at a time. When I calculate it I mostly get only a couple more points from the win/loss ratio. As I win 20 points, and lose like 15 points so it is so slow to gain up to the points of the guys I'm playing against. Some nights I'll go 10-10 and end up with like 20 extra points and it is frustrating. I don't want to mas games just to get to 2k points that I seem to be at. Seems the system is really strange about this.
The more games you play the closer you are to your true MMR or rating, so it just probably means you are right where you should be. In order to get matched up against better people and therefore be able to gain more points from a victory then you have to improve your game enough that the system realizes the people you are playing with are too easy for you. So the point is improve your play and you will move up, if not then that is probably where you belong for now.
On December 19 2010 17:47 Werk wrote:lol this is why i said TL peeps be nice....as i posted above the people i am playing are not favored...therefore a 50/50 means staying in the same spot...and thanks to the guys that posted above, i will admit i havent played a tons of 1v1s only about 200 so ill play more n see if anything changes..im a gamer with a life wrapped in instant gratification so im a lil impatient WANT POINTS NOW BLARRGGG XD i understand...
lol i was being nice. I gave you three threads full of the most valuable information you can find on this subject from people who have spent hours trying to figure it out. If you can't find what you are looking for from those pages I wouldn't know what to say. You have to understand the way it works though because honestly I don't see anything out of the ordinary with your situation.
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I am 1k platinum and I have been facing 1900 and 2100 diamonds.. T_T
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More than likely you beat a few people that were ranked higher than you, so they consider you to be a higher ranked player. When i first got into diamond i noticed that it would put me up against gold players at times. Slowly the gold players went away and it was just platinum and diamond players i would go against. Now I mostly just play 1800-2100 diamond players, with a 2000+ platinum once in a while. So just keep playing, and you will keep improving your game. You will just have to try harder and harder every game.
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same here i sit at 1400 and i get matched with ppl at 2000+ 90% of the time. Most of the time bnet says we are even matched!
and i recently switched to terran so i dont really get it
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Matchups are based on MMR not points.
I am 1600 rated diamond but i match up vs 2000-2300 mostly.
You clearly don't understand how the ladder system works. Basically if your mmr is damn high u will match people with the same mmr until u lose a lot of pnts that yr mmr goes down.
This also means u can play people with less points than u with high mmr and also those on the threshold of promotion (i.e the plat gold peeps)
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i hardly ever play (~400 diamond), but when i do, i get matched up against 1700+ diamond without fail. it's certainly a result of small sample size; comical nonetheless, and it really kills my desire to play
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On December 19 2010 17:55 AT_Tack wrote:
same here i sit at 1400 and i get matched with ppl at 2000+ 90% of the time. Most of the time bnet says we are even matched!
and i recently switched to terran so i dont really get it
Bonus pool brother, have you used it all up? If you have you must have recently jumped considerably in skill which is less likely but possible.
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maybe ur not ready for high diamond
keep practicing unless and climb slowly
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I do feel like this is one of the reasons for the ladder reset, if you played sorta infrequently it can be hard for you to rank up, even if you win.
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Its great that the ladder thinks im hot shit, but id like to play my way up there = / i went from plat right into 2k diamond. I wanna play people that are ranked the same as me so i can get points to be matched with people my rank...if that makes sense... BTW thanks for everything u guys are posting, working on getting that bonus pool down right now, have this up on 1 monitor and SC on the other
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I'm stuck in low diamond because I don't ladder/play at all! Although I can beat people with twice the ladder rating as me with relative ease.
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Lots of people have it like this. I've averaged played people 1200 rating above me ever since I started 1on1, and it's only because you don't play enough. The bonus pool system creates pretty big inflation and you need to play to keep up, or else you end up just far behind. If you're actually going 50/50, then you're right that you're stuck, you're just stuck 1k points higher up then you thought.
If it's all about bragging rights, just say that you're good enough to beat 2100, but just so slack to bother grind the points all the way up there. Then they can all swoon by your natural gaming skills or something.
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I think it just depends on how many games you play. My MMR is with players with the same ammount of points or slightly lower, but all I do is play ladder games
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On December 19 2010 18:05 Werk wrote:
Its great that the ladder thinks im hot shit, but id like to play my way up there = / i went from plat right into 2k diamond. I wanna play people that are ranked the same as me so i can get points to be matched with people my rank...if that makes sense... BTW thanks for everything u guys are posting, working on getting that bonus pool down right now, have this up on 1 monitor and SC on the other
If you are going 50/50, you're are definitely climbing. With your bonus pool it's just about using it up which means you must play it off. If the ladder matched you with people your own points you would surely enjoy a much higher success rate than 50/50 which isn't really the point of ladder. I sure as hell don't want to be playing a person who is at a 3k level but is only 2k on at the moment. It's just not fair.
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On December 19 2010 18:09 kaztah wrote:
Lots of people have it like this. I've averaged played people 1200 rating above me ever since I started 1on1, and it's only because you don't play enough. The bonus pool system creates pretty big inflation and you need to play to keep up, or else you end up just far behind. If you're actually going 50/50, then you're right that you're stuck, you're just stuck 1k points higher up then you thought.
If it's all about bragging rights, just say that you're good enough to beat 2100, but just so slack to bother grind the points all the way up there. Then they can all swoon by your natural gaming skills or something.
haha awesome reply thanks im awesome at this game but i dont play enough to be super awsome i like it...well its a werk i progress need practice partners XO
i didn't think that the ladder took in the bonus pool as a way of working you way up the ladder. it seems weird to me that they would group me up with high players expecting that that bonus pool will be what brings my score up to their level
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On December 19 2010 18:12 Werk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:09 kaztah wrote:
Lots of people have it like this. I've averaged played people 1200 rating above me ever since I started 1on1, and it's only because you don't play enough. The bonus pool system creates pretty big inflation and you need to play to keep up, or else you end up just far behind. If you're actually going 50/50, then you're right that you're stuck, you're just stuck 1k points higher up then you thought.
If it's all about bragging rights, just say that you're good enough to beat 2100, but just so slack to bother grind the points all the way up there. Then they can all swoon by your natural gaming skills or something. haha awesome reply thanks im awesome at this game but i dont play enough to be super awsome i like it...well its a werk i progress need practice partners XO i didn't think that the ladder took in the bonus pool as a way of working you way up the ladder. it seems weird to me that they would group me up with high players expecting that that bonus pool will be what brings my score up to their level
Nope that's not how it works either. Simply put you are a 2k Diamond player in skill who has played 200 games or so. Another person for example can be 1.5k Diamond player in skill who has played about the same and has the same Bonus pool. Bonus pool can't just be added to your amount at the moment, that's not how it works. Bonus pool is to help people who can't play as much catch-up to people who can without being too far behind.
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The way I see it you basically have to add your bonus pool to your current point to get average ''real'' points you should have. Due to bonus pool sytstem these points are ''free'' as long as you play enough games. So you are 1.1k + 0.9k = around 2k, which is what you are matched against.
I have the same issue (not really an issue though) Im1.3k, have about 0.7k and I am being matched against 2k diamonds so it is really quite simple. play a few hundred games while keeping your 50:50 ration and youll get there.
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On December 19 2010 18:19 Jakalo wrote:
The way I see it you basically have to add your bonus pool to your current point to get average ''real'' points you should have. Due to bonus pool sytstem these points are ''free'' as long as you play enough games. So you are 1.1k + 0.9k = around 2k, which is what you are matched against.
I have the same issue (not really an issue though) Im1.3k, have about 0.7k and I am being matched against 2k diamonds so it is really quite simple. play a few hundred games while keeping your 50:50 ration and youll get there.
Read what is said above.
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On December 19 2010 18:05 Werk wrote:
Its great that the ladder thinks im hot shit, but id like to play my way up there = / i went from plat right into 2k diamond. I wanna play people that are ranked the same as me so i can get points to be matched with people my rank...if that makes sense... BTW thanks for everything u guys are posting, working on getting that bonus pool down right now, have this up on 1 monitor and SC on the other
There is a flaw in your concept of what "people in your rank" are. Seems like you are thinking points equal your rating and therefore your opponents and that is not the case at all. Matchups aren't based on your points so you are playing people in "your rank" if you are winning about 50/50.
I would leave one monitor on this screen and put the other monitor on the more informative threads on this subject to really figure it out, if that's what you want  You just don't understand the system which is not necessarily complicated, but does require a little bit of reading/research by your part.
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Weird cuz if you fight 2k people u should get like 20 points + your bonus pool ... you should be 2k already
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same thing happens to me. That's one of the reasons why i never went back to laddering. if you want this to finally equalize itself, you will have to catch up in the amount of games played. you will probably eventually reach 2k in points and realize you were there to begin with.
On December 19 2010 18:10 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:05 Werk wrote:
Its great that the ladder thinks im hot shit, but id like to play my way up there = / i went from plat right into 2k diamond. I wanna play people that are ranked the same as me so i can get points to be matched with people my rank...if that makes sense... BTW thanks for everything u guys are posting, working on getting that bonus pool down right now, have this up on 1 monitor and SC on the other If you are going 50/50, you're are definitely climbing. With your bonus pool it's just about using it up which means you must play it off. If the ladder matched you with people your own points you would surely enjoy a much higher success rate than 50/50 which isn't really the point of ladder. I sure as hell don't want to be playing a person who is at a 3k level but is only 2k on at the moment. It's just not fair.
see it as practice or a chance to measure where your skills are in relativity to their's ;D.
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On December 19 2010 18:27 Triky wrote:
Weird cuz if you fight 2k people u should get like 20 points + your bonus pool ... you should be 2k already
You realize what not playing much is right?
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On December 19 2010 18:20 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:19 Jakalo wrote:
The way I see it you basically have to add your bonus pool to your current point to get average ''real'' points you should have. Due to bonus pool sytstem these points are ''free'' as long as you play enough games. So you are 1.1k + 0.9k = around 2k, which is what you are matched against.
I have the same issue (not really an issue though) Im1.3k, have about 0.7k and I am being matched against 2k diamonds so it is really quite simple. play a few hundred games while keeping your 50:50 ration and youll get there. Read what is said above.
You just wrote ''thats not how it works'', mind to elaborate?
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On December 19 2010 18:28 imyzhang wrote:
same thing happens to me. That's one of the reasons why i never went back to laddering. if you want this to finally equalize itself, you will have to catch up in the amount of games played. you will probably eventually reach 2k in points and realize you were there to begin with.
I disagree, you don't catch up in games played, but you do have to play a lot to use it up. That is only true if you don't improve during that play period which is unlikely.
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On December 19 2010 18:28 imyzhang wrote:same thing happens to me. That's one of the reasons why i never went back to laddering. if you want this to finally equalize itself, you will have to catch up in the amount of games played. you will probably eventually reach 2k in points and realize you were there to begin with. Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:10 FataLe wrote:On December 19 2010 18:05 Werk wrote:
Its great that the ladder thinks im hot shit, but id like to play my way up there = / i went from plat right into 2k diamond. I wanna play people that are ranked the same as me so i can get points to be matched with people my rank...if that makes sense... BTW thanks for everything u guys are posting, working on getting that bonus pool down right now, have this up on 1 monitor and SC on the other If you are going 50/50, you're are definitely climbing. With your bonus pool it's just about using it up which means you must play it off. If the ladder matched you with people your own points you would surely enjoy a much higher success rate than 50/50 which isn't really the point of ladder. I sure as hell don't want to be playing a person who is at a 3k level but is only 2k on at the moment. It's just not fair. see it as practice or a chance to measure where your skills are in relativity to their's ;D.
But if everyones ladder experience was like that, for example all leagues were one and it was just a mush of players being matched with everyone the game would be quite stupid.
A new player buys the game fires it up, plays campaign is ready for online play and gets crushed by someone who is 2k diamond, fine, next game, crushed, crushed, crushed. It's not good overall to be facing people who are much better than you, yes you caN see how they're better, how you are worse but that does not suddenly mean you are now much better. Infact it's counter-intuitive as your mechanics aren't even as good as theirs yet to even consider doing thing their way which can only be improved either playing a lot (you're not going to want to if you are experiencing a 25/75 or so winrate) or playing people your own level.
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On December 19 2010 18:35 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:28 imyzhang wrote:same thing happens to me. That's one of the reasons why i never went back to laddering. if you want this to finally equalize itself, you will have to catch up in the amount of games played. you will probably eventually reach 2k in points and realize you were there to begin with. On December 19 2010 18:10 FataLe wrote:On December 19 2010 18:05 Werk wrote:
Its great that the ladder thinks im hot shit, but id like to play my way up there = / i went from plat right into 2k diamond. I wanna play people that are ranked the same as me so i can get points to be matched with people my rank...if that makes sense... BTW thanks for everything u guys are posting, working on getting that bonus pool down right now, have this up on 1 monitor and SC on the other If you are going 50/50, you're are definitely climbing. With your bonus pool it's just about using it up which means you must play it off. If the ladder matched you with people your own points you would surely enjoy a much higher success rate than 50/50 which isn't really the point of ladder. I sure as hell don't want to be playing a person who is at a 3k level but is only 2k on at the moment. It's just not fair. see it as practice or a chance to measure where your skills are in relativity to their's ;D. But if everyones ladder experience was like that, for example all leagues were one and it was just a mush of players being matched with everyone the game would be quite stupid. A new player buys the game fires it up, plays campaign is ready for online play and gets crushed by someone who is 2k diamond, fine, next game, crushed, crushed, crushed. It's not good overall to be facing people who are much better than you, yes you caN see how they're better, how you are worse but that does not suddenly mean you are now much better. Infact it's counter-intuitive as your mechanics aren't even as good as theirs yet to even consider doing thing their way which can only be improved either playing a lot (you're not going to want to if you are experiencing a 25/75 or so winrate) or playing people your own level.
whoa calm down, i winked, it was just a joke lol. obviously most new players wouldnt wanna play someone who's better than them over and over again ;o
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On December 19 2010 18:39 imyzhang wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:35 FataLe wrote:On December 19 2010 18:28 imyzhang wrote:same thing happens to me. That's one of the reasons why i never went back to laddering. if you want this to finally equalize itself, you will have to catch up in the amount of games played. you will probably eventually reach 2k in points and realize you were there to begin with. On December 19 2010 18:10 FataLe wrote:On December 19 2010 18:05 Werk wrote:
Its great that the ladder thinks im hot shit, but id like to play my way up there = / i went from plat right into 2k diamond. I wanna play people that are ranked the same as me so i can get points to be matched with people my rank...if that makes sense... BTW thanks for everything u guys are posting, working on getting that bonus pool down right now, have this up on 1 monitor and SC on the other If you are going 50/50, you're are definitely climbing. With your bonus pool it's just about using it up which means you must play it off. If the ladder matched you with people your own points you would surely enjoy a much higher success rate than 50/50 which isn't really the point of ladder. I sure as hell don't want to be playing a person who is at a 3k level but is only 2k on at the moment. It's just not fair. see it as practice or a chance to measure where your skills are in relativity to their's ;D. But if everyones ladder experience was like that, for example all leagues were one and it was just a mush of players being matched with everyone the game would be quite stupid. A new player buys the game fires it up, plays campaign is ready for online play and gets crushed by someone who is 2k diamond, fine, next game, crushed, crushed, crushed. It's not good overall to be facing people who are much better than you, yes you caN see how they're better, how you are worse but that does not suddenly mean you are now much better. Infact it's counter-intuitive as your mechanics aren't even as good as theirs yet to even consider doing thing their way which can only be improved either playing a lot (you're not going to want to if you are experiencing a 25/75 or so winrate) or playing people your own level. whoa calm down, i winked, it was just a joke lol. obviously most new players wouldnt wanna play someone who's better than them over and over again ;o
Good, and no I'm far too angry.
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If your win rate is 50/50 then your point should go up from the bonus.
That is what happen to me. I have a little bit lower than 50% win but my point always go up a little bit.
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Someone posted that they wouldn't want to play a 3k diamond on his way up, but i think thats how it should be, i know its shitty getting raped by someone way better than u on their way up but winning non stop will fly him to the top so probably wont play him twice..why have a point system that wont keep up with your true skill level..i just think you should stomp people that have the same points in your division so u can work your way to the higher points....i know that means people who play not nearly as much will fall down the ladder but...blizzard hasn't been nice to people who don't put time into their games in the past..
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but reading is hard!...plz don't take anything too serious i just wanted to know if anyone else is having these problems and ya know...share ideas = p
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The players at 2000 diamond have simply played a lot more than you.
You do know how you get points every time you win and lose points every time you lose? Well, they have just won a lot more than you. "2k diamond" is just an indicator that he has collected 2000 points.
What can you do? Play more, win more, learn more.
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Why isn't playing people better than you a good thing? I'm ~2.2k plat and always excited to see "opponent slightly favored" when I get a game.
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On December 19 2010 18:49 Werk wrote:
Someone posted that they wouldn't want to play a 3k diamond on his way up, but i think thats how it should be, i know its shitty getting raped by someone way better than u on their way up but winning non stop will fly him to the top so probably wont play him twice..why have a point system that wont keep up with your true skill level..i just think you should stomp people that have the same points in your division so u can work your way to the higher points....i know that means people who play not nearly as much will fall down the ladder but...blizzard hasn't been nice to people who don't put time into their games in the past..
No you see that doesn't work at all. The point of the game isn't crushing to catch up. You make it sound like your not going to catch-up without facing people lower than you are. You are catching up albeit at a fair but decent pace. Just because your points aren't reflective of your actual skill doesn't give you the excuse to bash on people who aren't at your level because you feel impatient. Other people worked hard to keep their rating, why should you get a free pass on top of bonus pool?
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On December 19 2010 18:57 contraSol wrote:
Why isn't playing people better than you a good thing? I'm ~2.2k plat and always excited to see "opponent slightly favored" when I get a game.
It's good ofcourse. However you played "slightly favored" or "very favored" opponents nearly everygame you probably wont like your winrate after a while. Not only that but newer players aren't going to stick with a game they can't ever win.
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On December 19 2010 19:00 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:49 Werk wrote:
Someone posted that they wouldn't want to play a 3k diamond on his way up, but i think thats how it should be, i know its shitty getting raped by someone way better than u on their way up but winning non stop will fly him to the top so probably wont play him twice..why have a point system that wont keep up with your true skill level..i just think you should stomp people that have the same points in your division so u can work your way to the higher points....i know that means people who play not nearly as much will fall down the ladder but...blizzard hasn't been nice to people who don't put time into their games in the past.. No you see that doesn't work at all. The point of the game isn't crushing to catch up. You make it sound like your not going to catch-up without facing people lower than you are. You are catching up albeit at a fair but decent pace. Just because your points aren't reflective of your actual skill doesn't give you the excuse to bash on people who aren't at your level because you feel impatient. Other people worked hard to keep their rating, why should you get a free pass on top of bonus pool?
hmmm yea i see what your saying...then i guess its just personal preference to not have the bonus pool. again i know this would kill people who don't play a lot..but it kills being stuck at a low score and trying to work your way up against people that are way higher scored
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You have nearly a thousand bonus points, of course you're going to play with people roughly a thousand points higher than you, isn't it obvious?
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I'm a plat player experiencing the same thing as the OP. I am approx 900 plat and am always placed against either 2k+ plat or 1.6k-2k diamond, and it's always an "even match." I've been trying to ladder more recently, but I am climbing the ladder at a dreadfully slow pace (I am 50/50 like the OP).
And I think the conclusion of this thread is that bonus pool inflation is not fun. If you haven't been laddering everyday since release, you are probably nowhere near your "true" ladder ranking, and catching up is a serious pain. Season resets should fix this to a degree, but I still feel the bonus pool is something of a problem. (Where's the Bonus Pool is a Problem thread? I know there is one.)
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On December 19 2010 18:30 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:28 imyzhang wrote:
same thing happens to me. That's one of the reasons why i never went back to laddering. if you want this to finally equalize itself, you will have to catch up in the amount of games played. you will probably eventually reach 2k in points and realize you were there to begin with. I disagree, you don't catch up in games played, but you do have to play a lot to use it up. That is only true if you don't improve during that play period which is unlikely.
So your main argument against adding bonus pool to current points is that if you have played games necessarry to gain those 2k points you would have improved?
First of all its not given you will improve even if you play a lot. it is likely though.
But it is not relevant to what I claimed, I claimed that matchmaking sytstem pairs you with people of your skill level (which is proven) and that person you are paired with usually has the same amount of points as your points+bonus pool (if he has played a lot)
Which basically means that matchmaking system is working as intended because people with same amount of points have the same MMR rating.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
The problem with bonus pool is that I only get 11 + 11 points for beating a guy with 1100 rating higher than me (1800 vs 2900). I think Blizz really needs to implement a system to decrease MMR if a person doesn't play for a significant amount of time. Being away for 2+ months DOES deteriorate a person's skill and coming back after a long time to play, only to get crushed 10-20 games in a row before you start winning is not the best way to keep players who want to come back.
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On December 19 2010 19:37 infinity21 wrote:
The problem with bonus pool is that I only get 11 + 11 points for beating a guy with 1100 rating higher than me (1800 vs 2900). I think Blizz really needs to implement a system to decrease MMR if a person doesn't play for a significant amount of time. Being away for 2+ months DOES deteriorate a person's skill and coming back after a long time to play, only to get crushed 10-20 games in a row before you start winning is not the best way to keep players who want to come back.
i completely agree, but i suspect that blizzard does this to try to 'encourage' people to play the game more, i.e. consistently and frequently (which sucks balls for people who are either in school, or simply don't have a lot of time for sc).
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On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:
It sucks knowing you should be ranked higher and telling your friends your a measly 1k diamond...sad panda... anyways, be nice to me TL peeps
Since points are inflating with time and divisions have different point basses (i.e. 0 points in one division is the same as 300 in another) telling your friends your points is only a very rough estimate and only valid for a short amount of time. Blizzard optimized the ladder to reward causal players who want to climb up some ladder ranks not ladder points. In my humble opinion comparing ladder points does mean nothing until you also state your bonus pool, your division offset and the date.
People talk a lot about points because they want to quantify skill and the points Blizzard gave us are the worst measure of skill except there is no other measure.
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On December 19 2010 20:36 kmkkmk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:
It sucks knowing you should be ranked higher and telling your friends your a measly 1k diamond...sad panda... anyways, be nice to me TL peeps Since points are inflating with time and divisions have different point basses (i.e. 0 points in one division is the same as 300 in another) telling your friends your points is only a very rough estimate and only valid for a short amount of time. Blizzard optimized the ladder to reward causal players who want to climb up some ladder ranks not ladder points. In my humble opinion comparing ladder points does mean nothing until you also state your bonus pool, your division offset and the date. People talk a lot about points because they want to quantify skill and the points Blizzard gave us are the worst measure of skill except there is no other measure.
It would be really nice if they had some sort of global rank system. If my points don't say how good i am, and my division rank DEF doesn't say how good i am....how am i suppose to compare myself to other players?
Edit:
I wanna be able to say "BLAH i'm 500 points better than you noob l2p!" and then have a pro walk up and call me a cheesy noobie hehe. If someone asks me "what skill level are you?" how do you answer when you have a moderate bonus pool but play 2000 diamonds?
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the more games you win in a row, the higher level opponents bnet will match you up against, despite your points, a player in mid to high platinum on a 5 or 6 game winning streak may find themselves starting to be matched up with mid-low diamons and it saying its an even match because that diamond player probably lost 2 games in a row. so u are matched on ladder by ur (elo/mmr), your points are just a rough indication of skill based on total games played, you may find that if you really are improving, all you need to do is just mass games to get higher in your division.
hope this makes sense to you and helps
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On December 19 2010 19:27 Jakalo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 18:30 FataLe wrote:On December 19 2010 18:28 imyzhang wrote:
same thing happens to me. That's one of the reasons why i never went back to laddering. if you want this to finally equalize itself, you will have to catch up in the amount of games played. you will probably eventually reach 2k in points and realize you were there to begin with. I disagree, you don't catch up in games played, but you do have to play a lot to use it up. That is only true if you don't improve during that play period which is unlikely. So your main argument against adding bonus pool to current points is that if you have played games necessarry to gain those 2k points you would have improved? First of all its not given you will improve even if you play a lot. it is likely though. But it is not relevant to what I claimed, I claimed that matchmaking sytstem pairs you with people of your skill level (which is proven) and that person you are paired with usually has the same amount of points as your points+bonus pool (if he has played a lot) Which basically means that matchmaking system is working as intended because people with same amount of points have the same MMR rating.
You're quoting the wrong post if you think that's my argument.
Yes I said that. That might be true most of the time but it cannot be assumed as my other post pretty much negates it (I think, feel free to correct me)
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Take your bonus points, add it to your current points, and that's roughly how high you should be had you used it all up.
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On December 19 2010 17:57 stochastic wrote:
i hardly ever play (~400 diamond), but when i do, i get matched up against 1700+ diamond without fail. it's certainly a result of small sample size; comical nonetheless, and it really kills my desire to play
u'll get better playing better people ^^
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well, last night I played a few games and I'm about 450 points and met this guy with 2.3k and beat him. I have by no means any sick winning streak I'm at 35-31 I believe, play random and I only play a few games per week. I don't really care about who I meet but it feels pretty strange.
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Isn't it hilarious, Blizzard added the bonus-pool to help players not playing as much, catching up. It really worked great!
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Same thing for me, I'm diamond with 427 points and 44 games played and many of my games are vs 1500-2100 diamonds.
Edit: I do not have the problem with not moving up
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I don't get what the problem is, if you're matched against even opponents, then you should lose 10 points when you lose and gain 20 points when you win thanks to the bonus pool. If you have a 50% win rate, you'll gain an average of 10 points every other game. So just keep playing. Also, because of the bonus pool, people with higher points aren't necessarily better, they've just played more matches.
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The problem is that in like iccup for example you'd start out by losing 99% of your games. However, if you worked at it eventually you'd only lose 90% of your games. You felt really good when you made that leap. Then later if you worked even harder maybe you could win 50% of your games.
However in SC2 you don't get to feel that satisfaction. I'm in diamond and I win 50% of my games. I work really hard and practice and then I am in diamond and I win 50% of my games. Then I work really hard and get even better and I'm in diamond and I win 50% of my games.
It really kills me how there is no feeling of improvement when playing on the ladder. Blizzard is trying to fix this by adding more leagues but they should just show us MMR and not worry about the hurt feelings of people who are bad.
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I'm 1200 and play 2200's that I am slightly favored over. It's all done on magical hidden skill detector. It would be nice to play against other 1200's but if the system is the same for everyone, in the end it is fair although annoying.
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This question gets asked at least twice a week. It is getting old.
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On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me.
Werk's point gain/loss last 10 games:
-10
+20
-11
-14
+24
+22
-8
+26
-13
-5
This is what you call not moving up?
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On December 20 2010 01:18 KillerDucky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Werk's point gain/loss last 10 games: -10 +20 -11 -14 +24 +22 -8 +26 -13 -5 This is what you call not moving up?
lol a pool of 10 games isn't a good summary of whats going on..
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I also wanted to start something like this. I get matched up with anywhere between 1200-1800 but I'm only a 600 diamond player. I think im 50-50 as well.
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I think most people don't realise this but players you are playing now was on the same level since you played last time.
That just mean they improved and you not... But blizzard still thinks you on the same lvl due to the mmr, so sooner or later you be matched with the same lvl players.
Note that points doesn't really say much about skill unless you are top diamond (around 3000 ). ( divisions/bonus pool/ etc... )
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what i find annoying is if i win i face same level/harder opponents (2150~ diamond atm) and then when i lose a few games i face lower opponents
so the result is a forced 50/50 because i dont get to play the harder opponents often enough...
which sucks unless your casual
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On December 20 2010 06:18 Werk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 01:18 KillerDucky wrote:On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Werk's point gain/loss last 10 games: -10 +20 -11 -14 +24 +22 -8 +26 -13 -5 This is what you call not moving up? lol a pool of 10 games isn't a good summary of whats going on..
If you are actually winning 50% of your games like you state, you are by default moving up the ladder. Because you have a bonus pool, your points will be double for a win then a loss. If on the other hand you are not going 50/50 then you will not improve, and that is because you are losing more then you win.
You will play people at your skill level, the only difference is that the players you are matched up against have used up their bonus pool. There are plenty of articles on this, but lets put it this way, a 2000pt player today was probably a 1000pt player last month when the top of the ladder was 1700-2000.
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yeah i dont like how the match system is working. my friend is a 1750 diamond but is mainly playing high platinum players where as i just hit 1815 diamond but i'm playing 2300 diamonds and we're getting the same amount of points for a win...how does that work? i figure you should play opponents around your points so it doesn't make some people look better than they actually are.
-EDIT- i also dont mind playing the higher players because i'm improving as much as possible. i think we should all be happy that its just giving us good matches to improve with...i guess you dont look as good to a random person looking at your rank though
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On December 20 2010 06:18 Werk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 01:18 KillerDucky wrote:On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Werk's point gain/loss last 10 games: -10 +20 -11 -14 +24 +22 -8 +26 -13 -5 This is what you call not moving up? lol a pool of 10 games isn't a good summary of whats going on..
actually it is and KillerDucky is right...I just don't think you know what is going on my friend. There really is nothing out of the ordinary with your situation, this really is a terrible thread..
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On December 20 2010 06:50 MassHysteria wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 06:18 Werk wrote:On December 20 2010 01:18 KillerDucky wrote:On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Werk's point gain/loss last 10 games: -10 +20 -11 -14 +24 +22 -8 +26 -13 -5 This is what you call not moving up? lol a pool of 10 games isn't a good summary of whats going on.. actually it is and KillerDucky is right...I just don't think you know what is going on my friend. There really is nothing out of the ordinary with your situation, this really is a terrible thread..
it must not be a terrible thread if other people are posting on here having the same questions / problems, and if your going to say i don't know whats going on, please explain. that post gave the thread nothing.
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If you add your bonus pool to your points you usually get a rating similar to your opponents. You need to keep playing until your bonus pool goes to 0, then check again. Even with a 50/50 winrate you will gain points (double points for each win because of the bonus pool), while a 2k diamond with a 0 bonus pool and 50/50 winrate won't, so you can catch up really fast.
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Well look at it this way the more you play better players the more you will improve, and they will seem less skilled.
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When I actually do some laddering, I'm in the exact same situation.
I'm at 500 diamond with over 1000 bonus pool, regularly play 1800 diamonds and the matchmaker says it's an even match. Since I'm going about 50/50 I can't gain points very fast.
I suppose presumably if I played hundreds of games in a short period I'd burn through my 1000 bonus pool and that would correct it, but I'm not going to do that, ha!
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Same problem here, im ~1300 diamond and im playing vs 2300++ -_-
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On December 20 2010 07:13 Ketara wrote:
When I actually do some laddering, I'm in the exact same situation.
I'm at 500 diamond with over 1000 bonus pool, regularly play 1800 diamonds and the matchmaker says it's an even match. Since I'm going about 50/50 I can't gain points very fast.
I suppose presumably if I played hundreds of games in a short period I'd burn through my 1000 bonus pool and that would correct it, but I'm not going to do that, ha!
Just add your bonus pool to your rating and you get your normalized rating, which is pretty close to what your opponents have. I had the exact same problem, my pc periodically breaks due to power line issues (which are not corrected by ups+avr and a server-grade isolation transformer costs 1k$), so i can't play starcraft at all for 1-2 weeks when the pc is dead, then i slowly burn through my pool and get more even matches, or even players with much lower ratings but a high bonus pool.
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On December 19 2010 19:37 infinity21 wrote:
The problem with bonus pool is that I only get 11 + 11 points for beating a guy with 1100 rating higher than me (1800 vs 2900). I think Blizz really needs to implement a system to decrease MMR if a person doesn't play for a significant amount of time. Being away for 2+ months DOES deteriorate a person's skill and coming back after a long time to play, only to get crushed 10-20 games in a row before you start winning is not the best way to keep players who want to come back.
However if you are top player that doesn't matter that much. Plus there are people who only play custom games, so in reality they are active as other players however they seems like inactive on the ladder. Still a good idea and should be implemented ( very slow decay )
------- edit ------
Overall i don't get it, what is the real problem here. From what i see people complaining that they cant win all of their games because they decided to cheat a system and wait for they bonus pool to go up so huge that later they will sky rock to the top after they start playing.
If you do want to play and be on top of the ladder play more, as inactive players want to be on top of the ladder seams somewhat bad, compared to people who dedicate most of their time, it's just not fair.
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It is the same for me i am at 1100 points but i never play anyone under 2400. Laste 3 games were 2600, 2800, 2500. It takes forever to get points because its hard to go over 50%. I know its all about the mmr but can they let me get to where im suppose to be in points anyway?
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I have the same problem, Although I'm around 700 pts and play 2000 pt players. But it's because I don't play enough games, only got ~ 37 games since launch...
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People need to realise a few things.
1. Points aren't a measure of skill until AFTER you deplete your bonus points. Until then it is more of a measure of how much you've played. If you are matched against someone 1000 points above you, he isn't necessarily better, he just played way more. Stop complaining how points aren't reflecting your true skills since it is not designed to do that.
If you are going 50/50 against people 1000 points ahead of you, it is NOT hindering your laddering progress. It is only slow because you haven't played enough to use up your points while your opponent have. When you do use them up, you'll be at that level too. The whole matchmaking/favouredness thing does not care about your or their bonus points.
2. Bonus points arent there to help the less active gamer boost up the ladder easier. It is only there to create the sense of progress, since otherwise everyone will be stagnating around their mmr. If anything, the less active gamer will only fall behind due to the bonus points, since everyone else has them too.
3. I think many people's real issue is that it is not possible to accurately determine your skill rating (mmr) if you aren't active. Points + unused bonus gives a rough estimate but it isn't very good. Some people prefer the progress of seeing their mmr move up rather than the artificial progress created by bonus points. Personally I think instead of a bonus point system, a ladder showing mmr with decay would make everyone happier.
Then again blizzard still wants those lower league people to keep wanting to play the game somehow, and bonus points is doing that.
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im a gold and i play 2000+ diamonds LOL
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On December 20 2010 07:06 Werk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 06:50 MassHysteria wrote:On December 20 2010 06:18 Werk wrote:On December 20 2010 01:18 KillerDucky wrote:On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Werk's point gain/loss last 10 games: -10 +20 -11 -14 +24 +22 -8 +26 -13 -5 This is what you call not moving up? lol a pool of 10 games isn't a good summary of whats going on.. actually it is and KillerDucky is right...I just don't think you know what is going on my friend. There really is nothing out of the ordinary with your situation, this really is a terrible thread.. it must not be a terrible thread if other people are posting on here having the same questions / problems, and if your going to say i don't know whats going on, please explain. that post gave the thread nothing.
I posted everything you need to know on my previous posts, go back and read them.
Seems you just want everything easy and don't want to read and research stuff yourself. Try putting some effort forth.
And yes you are right the other people are just as lost as you are and would benefit from reading the TL threads on this subject from the more informed TL members.
The problem isn't the system, it's your understanding of how the system works so read up.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=118212
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142211
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169830
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i think the biggest reason that most people cant get out of bronze/silver/gold/low diamond is that they watch all these guys like day9 and casters and replays and focus way to much on build orders and memorizing at exactly what supply you must do a certain action rather than just playing the game and figuring things out on the go.
every game is different and you need to learn how to beat things and what works when for YOU.
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It seems like in general people who got diamond before other people have a pretty good adventage . Like I was 250 points behind a buddy of mine since I got promoted about 1-2 weeks later then him and now still after about 800 games played still am about 200-300 points behind , changing when we play ofc
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On December 20 2010 08:41 metalsonic wrote:
It seems like in general people who got diamond before other people have a pretty good adventage . Like I was 250 points behind a buddy of mine since I got promoted about 1-2 weeks later then him and now still after about 800 games played still am about 200-300 points behind , changing when we play ofc
i had to get a new acct (last one got banned for using a macro to auto join and leave 4v4 games for icon farming) which i started playing a few weeks ago. gained about 400 points past few days in diamond. dont think these kind of theories that ive read here are all that true...(take out the bonus pool its probably like 200ish points gained, but still.)
if you win, you will move up, if you don't, you will not move up. it is NOT a zero-sum system, especially with the bonus pool feature. if you go anything close to 50/50 win/loss you WILL gain points consistantly.
if you are not gaining points or not moving up, I'm sorry but you simply are not winning more than 50% of your games.
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So basically, you are embarrassed to tell your friends you only have 1k points. I see two possible solutions, either lie to your friends and say you have 3000 points and your id is LiquidRet, or not care what your friends think about your Starcraft rank.
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On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:I wondering if people are having the same problem as I am. I am for the time being a 1.1k diamond player, but play people that are 2k in diamond pretty much every game. I feel as though Ive really improved as a player in the last couple of weeks and the ladder seems to be matching me up with very strong opponents. + Show Spoiler + Werk.136 61st in Valerian Kappa 1,161 I go about 50/50 as most people do, but I check the profile for people I play after every game and they're always a thousand points ahead of me, and the match is considered even. So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Anyone else having this problem? It sucks knowing you should be ranked higher and telling your friends your a measly 1k diamond...sad panda... anyways, be nice to me TL peeps
if you're 50/50 vs 1k+ opponents you'll go plus as bloody hell since winning against higher pointed people gives you more.
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Well i'm 2100 Diamond and i played a Gold Player a few Days ago. (Well i won, but he will probably get promoted soon, cause he definately doesn't belong there) This again kinda proves (again) that MMR has not much to do with Points cause i'm usually kinda playing 1500-2300 Diamond Players. So it's not that strange if u get opponents many Points higher, cause their MMR might be low or yours higher than the points might let you think.
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On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:
I go about 50/50 as most people do, but I check the profile for people I play after every game and they're always a thousand points ahead of me, and the match is considered even. So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Anyone else having this problem? It sucks knowing you should be ranked higher and telling your friends your a measly 1k diamond...sad panda... anyways, be nice to me TL peeps
This is just a lie. Don't know why people would post stuff like this on TL.
It is NOT a zero-sum system, especially with the bonus pool feature.
If you beat someone rated above you, you GAIN more points than you would lose if you had lost. So if you go 50/50 like you claim you do, there is simply no way that you aren't moving up the ladder.
Can't tl moderate these kinds of threads or something...
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I'm having similar problems. I am around 800 diamond and every match I face 2000 to 2200 pt diamonds. If I loose 2 or 3 games in a row, it goes straight to playing platinum. Then I win 1 or 2 and I'm up against 2000+pts again. My worst matchup is by far pvz, I can never hold a 3rd. I went on a 4 game win streak (against 2000+pts) and then I got scrap station vs 2200 pt zergs 3 games in a row and lost them all. Then I face a platinum, own him and end up with the exact same pts I started at...
I am so annoyed with it.
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On December 20 2010 06:18 Werk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 01:18 KillerDucky wrote:On December 19 2010 17:30 Werk wrote:So going 50/50 i really never move up or down the ladder but play people that are ranked way higher than me. Werk's point gain/loss last 10 games: -10 +20 -11 -14 +24 +22 -8 +26 -13 -5 This is what you call not moving up? lol a pool of 10 games isn't a good summary of whats going on..
You want to post more? You're winning twice as many points as you're losing. System working as intended and you are going up.
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points don't entirely equal skill. your hidden MMR may be different.
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Yea Ive been having this same problem as well. Was a ~1.4k-1.5k diamond player about a month and a half ago, and than essentially stopped playing 1v1 until about a week or 2 ago. SO my matchmaking rating is still on par with the same people that I was playing before, except now theyre ~2400-2500 point players Im playing against and Im still a 1.7k player being even or even favored against these guys.
Since youre winning ~50% of your games, I think itd be safe to take your bonus pool, add that to what youre at now, and you should have a pretty good estimate of what your points will be had you played enough games to exhaust your bonus pool. It might seem like some of them are "out of your league" right now, but thats just because you dont have the same experience now that you did before.
TLDR: You'll be stuck with less points than you truly deserve, until you use up 100% of your bonus pool
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TL;DR
Your ladder score is exactly what it should be, as you have 800+ bonus pool with a 1200 pt rating. These are free points that you will get so long as you play enough games. If you add your ladder score to your bonus pool, you will see that you are indeed right around 2k diamond. A simple way to estimate your ladder score is simply add your bonus pool to your current ladder score, so you can fairly say you are at 2k diamond, as that is your skill level.
You gain DOUBLE points for every win, while a 2000 diamond player who has used up his bonus pool doesn't. It is only a matter of time until you catch up.
There is no problem here, so you shouldn't refer to it as a problem, as everybody that has not used up their bonus pool is in exactly the same situation as you are. You are not "stuck" at all, as you WILL gain points by simply playing games, since the matchmaking system will keep you at an average of 50/50, which will result in you simply using up your bonus pool, assuming you don't improve. If you improve as you play, you will likely end up higher by the time your pool is used up.
Also, few people seem to understand that when your bonus pool is not used up, the favored/even/unfavored is not an indicator of who is more skilled, but rather an indicator of how many points you will get for winning/losing. Both players can be favored, or unfavored. Your favored/unfavored for a particular match is determined by comparing your ladder score, to your opponents MMR. So if you are playing somebody with MMR 2000 but ladder score 500, you will be unfavored despite having a a higher ladder score, whereas if you are playing a player who is MMR 500, but ladder score 2000, you will be favored, despite having a lower ladder score. This is done so that your ladder score more quickly approaches your MMR. If you still cannot understand how or why this is, then just don't worry about it. The system is working EXACTLY how it was designed to work.
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I'm 1200 diamond and beat hella ppl who 1900-2000+ diamond but they always said even match 
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On December 20 2010 08:36 Effen wrote:
i think the biggest reason that most people cant get out of bronze/silver/gold/low diamond is that they watch all these guys like day9 and casters and replays and focus way to much on build orders and memorizing at exactly what supply you must do a certain action rather than just playing the game and figuring things out on the go.
every game is different and you need to learn how to beat things and what works when for YOU.
Really bad advise.
If you do one build good you will be in mid diamond in no time. if you can do it perfectly you can reach top diamond. Once you have one build ONLY then you should star adding aditional builds.
It doesn't matter if you have "10 builds" but every game its actually different... and in fact you cant do even one build correctly. Thats why most people cant move up because they play on the flow, meaning they do not improve because every time you in different situation and you don't know how to react vs opponent build.
If you try to figure out everything it's takes SO much time. Its not time effective use.
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This is so obvoius.
You have bonus pool. Add your bonus pool to your points, those are your actual points(assuming 50% winrate, so your actual points are most likely even higher). If you're a 1k diamond with 1.1k bonus pool, you're a 2100 diamond. If you're being matched vs 2400s, it's working properly. Spend your bonus pool completely first, then make these kinds of threads.
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Im 1600 diamond and I consistently play opponents that are between 2200 and 2500. I think it's because Im diamond and have 400+ games played. My guess is that the match making system checks how many games played, what's your level and what kind of opponents are similar to your skill and have similar amount of games played. I could be wrong though.
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Why does your ladder rating really matter at all? Obviously if you're going 50/50 against those higher than you, you are somewhat even with them in skill. All ratings mean is how many games you play or if you got an early head start before other people.
Unless you're trying to get into tournaments that look at rating why does your rating matter to you? It's just a number...If your friends laugh just crush them in game and shut them up.
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On December 20 2010 10:13 kYem wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 08:36 Effen wrote:
i think the biggest reason that most people cant get out of bronze/silver/gold/low diamond is that they watch all these guys like day9 and casters and replays and focus way to much on build orders and memorizing at exactly what supply you must do a certain action rather than just playing the game and figuring things out on the go.
every game is different and you need to learn how to beat things and what works when for YOU. Really bad advise. If you do one build good you will be in mid diamond in no time. if you can do it perfectly you can reach top diamond. Once you have one build ONLY then you should star adding aditional builds. It doesn't matter if you have "10 builds" but every game its actually different... and in fact you cant do even one build correctly. Thats why most people cant move up because they play on the flow, meaning they do not improve because every time you in different situation and you don't know how to react vs opponent build. If you try to figure out everything it's takes SO much time. Its not time effective use.
No, actually most top players (well really all of them) don't memorize build orders. Its not really good for your game sense to be memorizing lists. Instead pros are using timings such as "if I want 100 gas when my pool finishes I need to put 3 drones into gas 10 seconds before my pool starts." or "if I build an infester when my pathanogen glands is 60% done it will hatch with enough energy to fungal.
When you use this kind of knowledge it doesn't matter what build you are using, and you'll be a much better player for it.
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On December 20 2010 13:21 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2010 10:13 kYem wrote:On December 20 2010 08:36 Effen wrote:
i think the biggest reason that most people cant get out of bronze/silver/gold/low diamond is that they watch all these guys like day9 and casters and replays and focus way to much on build orders and memorizing at exactly what supply you must do a certain action rather than just playing the game and figuring things out on the go.
every game is different and you need to learn how to beat things and what works when for YOU. Really bad advise. If you do one build good you will be in mid diamond in no time. if you can do it perfectly you can reach top diamond. Once you have one build ONLY then you should star adding aditional builds. It doesn't matter if you have "10 builds" but every game its actually different... and in fact you cant do even one build correctly. Thats why most people cant move up because they play on the flow, meaning they do not improve because every time you in different situation and you don't know how to react vs opponent build. If you try to figure out everything it's takes SO much time. Its not time effective use. No, actually most top players (well really all of them) don't memorize build orders. Its not really good for your game sense to be memorizing lists. Instead pros are using timings such as "if I want 100 gas when my pool finishes I need to put 3 drones into gas 10 seconds before my pool starts." or "if I build an infester when my pathanogen glands is 60% done it will hatch with enough energy to fungal. When you use this kind of knowledge it doesn't matter what build you are using, and you'll be a much better player for it.
exactly.
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SC2 ladder is a joke, if they could at least show MMR only in Master league it would settle it for good.
Diamond league with it's points system is a joke right now, just play more and you'll have more pts.
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I've been having something similar to the OP, however in addition to all the 2k diamonds i am facing (about 1400 diamond here), i also face 1-2 650ish point diamond players per 10 ladder games i play. This is confusing, as i don't know if my hidden MMR is near the 2k diamond level or closer to the 700 diamond level.
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Holy crap, he is in my league. Hi there :O Also, it probably only looks like a huge discrepancy because you have a good amount of bonus pool. You just need to play a lot more games. Your MMR is even with those players, but you don't have the games to have a higher score. Play 150 more games, and it should even out 
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On December 21 2010 01:36 57 Corvette wrote:
I've been having something similar to the OP, however in addition to all the 2k diamonds i am facing (about 1400 diamond here), i also face 1-2 650ish point diamond players per 10 ladder games i play. This is confusing, as i don't know if my hidden MMR is near the 2k diamond level or closer to the 700 diamond level.
Trying to associate your MMR with a "point level" is a fundamentally flawed exercise. You cannot compare skill levels between players using the SC2 point system. The point system is directly designed to not give you any information about skill/MMR.
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i'm currently a 600 diamond w/ ~1700 bonus getting matched up against high 2000's.
i decided to sit down and play to use up my bonus pool points. as i playing, i get matched up against high diamonds and get +8 or +12, when i play mid 1000's, i get +22. i keep getting matched up against harder opponents yet i get lower points. this seems very pointless to me and deprived me of all motivation to play ladder. now i play my friend's account for noob bashing (i leave on purpose so i don't win)...this is more fun.
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every time I see a thread about stuck in xxxx or how do i get better or how do i get 200apm i face palm~
steps to get better:
1- pick 1 race and stick with it
2- figure out your "niche" or what buid orders you are comfortable with
3- watch day9 dailies and other commentators/analyzers
4- set small goals and accomplish each one before progressing to the next one inevitably getting better
5- repeat steps 2-4
Hope that helps and best of luck in your endeavor
ps day9 did a good little segment over looking at what caused you to lose a game not the last battle but earlier etc - in other words, i suggest watching your replays and see what first made you have an unfavorable position
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EPT
