ok, i know this sounds crazy to a ton of people, but i am halfway through my Jr year in highschool, and im working on getting good enough to be able to become pro right after highschool. and i know there are going to be tons of people who say "dont do it! its too risky!" or "your wasting your life" but this is what i am dedicated to do.
let me start off by saying how good i actually am right now. so i have been playing for about 8 months, (since beta) and i have improved from pretty low bronze newbie to pretty high diamond because i am a very fast learner. but if i made that much of an improvement in 8 months, another year and half will get me a lot higher. so i am constantly working my way up to get closer to the top 200 where a few of my friends are. here is my profile http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/339086/1/iDreamadroid/ so i am not the best in the world yet, but probly around rank 4000 in the US. and of course i will work my way up.
so how do people actually start to make a living off of it? do you have to move to korea like IdrA and just find every little tournament plus GSL? cant you join a clan and get sponsored or something?
i am just a little unfamiliar of the whole process of how this works. so any productive responses are appreciated, just try to leave out the criticism. but i know that Team Liquid is awesome enough to have less trolls than any other forum.
also maybe remember the name iDreamadroid for future years ;D everyone starts somewhere
the problem is that most of the really good guys have been playing rts competitively for many years.. its really hard to catch up to that being new to rts. best way to get better is to be focused on improving while grinding many many games. then do well in tournaments and get sponsorship
Really you need to start off by getting recognised.
Get to the top of ladder.
Win some online tourneys.
Win some offline tourneys. (Yes I realise SC2 is technically always online)
Apply to top teams with examples of why they should pick you up, (all the tourneys you've won etc.)
Once you are on a top team, that pretty much makes you pro, then put in the training hours with the team, and enter even more big events.
edit: judging by your rank, im not sure if you are capable of getting there, most pros have years experience in sc1 or other games (such as war3 etc.) Theres being good, and theres being pro. Theres a distinct difference. Any "very good" ladder player could occasionally take a game off a pro. But in a BO7, the pro will come out infront everytime.
i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
I doubt there are many players in the US that don't have some kind of other job. Playing sc2 in the US full time is just not an option (I am sure there are exceptions).
I don't know about Starcraft 2, but a lot of Starcraft 1 pro's barely made a living.
I'm assuming we're defining 'professional' as a guy that can play SC2 and survive, which I imagine requires a player not only to win, but win consistently and often.
Even top 'pro's' like InControl -- who is really, legitimately good -- subsidize their income by coaching.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
You can't really use Flash as en example here... Considering how many ppl apply to be progamers, go through Courage, try to become at least semi-pro; all those people have basically given up their education for very little success in the scene. Flash is one-of-a-kind, 8 months and 2000 points, that's really nothing impressive.
You would need to practice methodically and systematically to improve your game rather than just haphazardly playing on ladder. Start getting some tournament experience as early as possible (online opens to start with). Meet people and talk to them, you don't want to be an isolated anonymous ladder player no matter how good you are.
There's no secret recipe to it, the process is mostly common knowledge, actually getting there is the genuinely difficult part. Don't commit to anything until you know you've got a decent shot at it.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
You can't really use Flash as en example here... Considering how many ppl apply to be progamers, go through Courage, try to become at least semi-pro; all those people have basically given up their education for very little success in the scene. Flash is one-of-a-kind, 8 months and 2000 points, that's really nothing impressive.
I thought Flash finished school aswell? Or was that JD?
On December 10 2010 13:58 Idmaif wrote: ok, i know this sounds crazy to a ton of people, but i am halfway through my Jr year in highschool, and im working on getting good enough to be able to become pro right after highschool. and i know there are going to be tons of people who say "dont do it! its too risky!" or "your wasting your life" but this is what i am dedicated to do.
let me start off by saying how good i actually am right now. so i have been playing for about 8 months, (since beta) and i have improved from pretty low bronze newbie to pretty high diamond because i am a very fast learner. but if i made that much of an improvement in 8 months, another year and half will get me a lot higher. so i am constantly working my way up to get closer to the top 200 where a few of my friends are. here is my profile http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/339086/1/iDreamadroid/ so i am not the best in the world yet, but probly around rank 4000 in the US. and of course i will work my way up.
so how do people actually start to make a living off of it? do you have to move to korea like IdrA and just find every little tournament plus GSL? cant you join a clan and get sponsored or something?
i am just a little unfamiliar of the whole process of how this works. so any productive responses are appreciated, just try to leave out the criticism. but i know that Team Liquid is awesome enough to have less trolls than any other forum.
also maybe remember the name iDreamadroid for future years ;D everyone starts somewhere
just do what you want .. fuck everyone who tells you what to do ..
you just need 90% dedication and the 10%, leave it to Luck ..
Also, sorry to be a dick but I started playing late in the beta (had never really played an RTS before) and went from low silver to ~2500 diamond in about 7months.
How hard does one need to practice to go PRO, for Basketball, Football, baseball... Make it your life and you can do it (the above also sort of have a physical requirement in some ways SC2 not so much as long as you can work a mouse)
Win tourneys, and make friends with big clans and get in. Same way for alot of talents and careers. Be good(*edit be AMAZING), get noticed.
As is it right now, you can't make a living out of it right now. You have to spend 10h+ per day practicing to have a minuscule chance of winning a couple bucks.. NOt really worth it right now.
Sure theres the top guys from the gsl (idra, boxer, jinro, etc...), but these are exeptions.. They make a bit from their sponsers but not very much.. To get to that level is almost impossible when you take in account all the good starcraft II players in the world.
i'm no gosu level in sc2 but i've had competitive experience in counter-strike and i've met alot of people through Cyberglobe. the team is dead now, i used to manage the cyberglobe cafe and ran a team sponsored cyberglobe cafe.
best thing for you to do is to goto tournaments. it might be difficult depending on where you live but, for example: there's a tournament comping up about ~1 hr from where i live in mountain view. http://www.meetup.com/santacruzgam3r5/calendar/15585521/
i was told about it, it says "invite" so i'm not sure if you can still enter. anyways, its about making connections. you can perform well in a tournament and chances are, someone might be there with connections within the pro community (daynine, hd, husky or some other known person in the sc2 community that has ties deeper into the pro scene). this will help with your game as you can practice with top tier players more often. talk whatnot and make more connections. from there if you perform like a pro, you will be noticed and have a chance to be invited to a tournament(s).
you can also do online tournaments just to get your name out and be noticed.
if you really want to do it, do it, no one can stop you. i've tried with cs and called it quits after failing to enter into cal-i for two seasons. it can't happen to everyone that tries but you'll never know until you try.
of course, this is after all the improvements you need.
if you are really dedicated, no one can stop you. i would really recommend testing yourself before you truly decide. From your profile, your win rate isn't very impressive, no offense. Noone is stopping you (maybe except for your parents?) and I really want to wish you a good luck as I'm in same age range as you.
Back to the point, you probably have to get noticed by teams. I guess this can happen by winning tournaments and being clanless at the top of the ladder. Maybe you can win one of the TL Opens? or craft cup?
If you really want to make money out of the game, then Korea would probably be the best choice. If I'm not being productive (which im sure im not), I'm sry but i just want to give you best wishes and gl in the future. Like day9 in his #100 daily, as long as u love something and ur happy, thats good for u and the rest of the world. ^too f*cking corny but w/e
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
I don't want to be negative here, but the old man in me is feels obligated to say that becoming a professional SC2 player seems about as easy as becoming an NBA player. And the sport hasn't matured yet.
There are 250 NBA players. There are 32 Code S GSL players.
There are plenty of pro's out there, but not all of them make an easy living. The only viable league right now -- with enough money and sponsorship to support players on a regular basis -- has to be GSL. All the other players are subsidizing their income some how, through commentating, coaching, websites, content production ... all while scrambling to play as many tournaments as possible.
I'm not saying that it's impossible -- but you have to prepared to work really hard, and even then you're not guaranteed anything.
You should pursue it if you LOVE it, even if it doesn't love you back.
But I'm speaking out of turn. Hopefully one of the pro's on this board will give you the real scoop.
Id say just compete in all small tournaments you can, or ones that are kinda known, like if husky and hd do a tournament or go to all the ones blizzard posts on their website that are in america and if some clan or group likes your play then they will grab you. Or try to get your games casted on youtube or cast your own and maybe you can get noticed even easier.
Start here man. Enter as many Open online Tournaments on TL as you can. Try out for all the MLGs you can. If you do well, you'll get invites to invitationals and invited to teams.
Start low. Go slow. Become pro. :D
edit:
to Defacer: There are plenty of professional basketball players not in the NBA like abroad and such. Also there are plenty of professional Starcraft players not code S in the GSL.
You need to practice alot more. And also try to get connections in "the scene" go to mlg's try to get practice game with people who know people. Like whiplash who streams here. he knows alot of guys in the scene etc. Then i think the key to getting into a good team is to show of that youre capable of doing good. IE play in every online tournament you can and get as far as you can get.
Then you also need to be super dedicated to PRACTICE. that is number one. not just grinding games, but also getting better at what youre doing.
Although you're pretty good, you're going to have to practice extremely hard to be as good as the people that play in the tourneys now. They are on a totally different level, way above even diamond. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you have to be totally committed. I would like to be a pro as well, but being in bronze isn't as good a start as what you have :\ Good luck man, I hope to see you in GSL soon (:
Professionals support themselves by doing what they do. Amateurs of high skill and rank can become professional only by making enough money from their game to pay rent and bills.
If you have intrinsic skill and RTS ability, you might be able to do it. Working your way up from top 4k in US is not a realistic goal. Pro-gamer's don't actually make that much either. From sponsorships alone(tournaments excluded) you would probably make more having a part-time job. The exceptions are those at the very very top of the game, but be realistic with yourself. The guys at the top often have had 5+ years of RTS experience. Sure I may be good enough at starcraft 2 to absolutely crush most of my friends, and make them dizzy with how fast my screen jumps, but I would never be able to beat a pro.
If you've played ANY other competitive game, you know that there is such a thing known as a skill curve. Almost anybody can get to 80% of the pro's skill level with 2 hours a day for a month or two. It's the last 20% that very few can achieve, even with practice. Back when I played CSS, I played servers where I would be considered "good", 2.X kd etc. But even though I was good, there were a few people who would routinely just go around and stomp on everybody. You know the guy who you are proud to have a 1-14 kd against? That is what you are trying to become right now, and it's nearly impossible.
Edit: I noticed a friend of a friend of mine is in your division. FYI he only plays ~5 hours a week, but has the intrinsic skill to back it up to be that much better(#2)
Just to add to what other's have mentioned, you need to get used to playing for 10+ hours a day. If you cannot handle that kind of game time then I would suggest that you focus on school.
Most teams usually have a minimum amount of training duration which takes up almost the entire day.
What is the end goal besides being "pro"? What dollar amount would you have to make to justify skipping out on the money you could make at a regular job or investing in college? How many years would you want to be pro?
How high is your IQ? How much do you want carpal tunnel syndrome?
If you think Flash said, oh man.. I'll never be like "Slayers_Boxer" when he was first stepped into the programming scene, do ya think he would have made it this far?
If you have the will and power and see yourself winning GSL times and times after another. Then go for it, otherwise its not worth it. No money in e-sports. MLG alone will not support you with enough money to sustain gaming life. GSL is the future. There will be far more foreginers who will try their luck in the upcoming seasons. afterall, 85Grand is enough money, but is it enough for you to live an entire life knowing that you gave up your education for it? What if you dont win? Whee will you go? This is just like starting a business, you have to look at your backup plans, how will you bounce back if things go wrong
On December 10 2010 14:35 TributeBoxer wrote: What is the end goal besides being "pro"? What dollar amount would you have to make to justify skipping out on the money you could make at a regular job or investing in college? How many years would you want to be pro?
How high is your IQ? How much do you want carpal tunnel syndrome?
TributeBoxer is being a little snarky, but he has a point.
Define some of the goals/outcomes that would make you happy as a "pro".
Weigh it against the costs/risks.
Ask yourself if it's worth it.
Seems like an oversimplification, but if you can set some goals, commit to the work and be happy with that commitment, you'll be way ahead of the average person.
Dedication, patience, passion, willingness to improve and having fun. There's a whole list that could be created about the requirements to go far in something, not just in Starcraft.
My advice is to be dedicated, but not obsessive, and work hard. It's not healthy to let anything consume all of your time unless you're in a situation that you're able too, so don't overdo it. Know that it will take time to improve, nothing happens instantly unless you're one of the lucky few who has the natural talent to carry them (and even then the amount of work is still relatively the same).
Play every practice game (including ladder) to improve and push your skill to the next level, don't play to just get a win. Analyze your mistakes, play with other people and when you're able to, join a team. StarCraft is really a social game, you will learn leaps and bounds if you're able to interact and discuss it with other people that are playing.
On top of all of this, have fun and be passionate about the game. If you truly want to be good, and want to be a "pro", then you have to love and enjoy what you're doing. Without that you will burn out very fast. If it ever feels dull or like it's your job; take a small break, do something else. Without enjoyment you're going to fail.
If you really put in the time and effort you have a chance, but realistically it might take even more than that. Be aware that it may not work out. If that is daunting to you, if you're worried that you may fail, then I suggest stop now, and just enjoy playing the game without trying to become a professional. You don't have to be the best to be competitive, but to be the best you have to work the hardest.
With that said, the task of being recognized comes from tournaments and performing well. Play in every tournament you can and keep your ladder rank high enough that you're able to get into tournaments. Winning, or placing well in tournaments, opens a lot of doors. You might get team invites, or just invites to tournaments, both of which help promote you as a player and expose you to the community.
Best of luck, and don't let anyone really say you can't do it. Realistically it will be hard, but if you want it, and won't back down, then go for it.
You definitely need to start competing in as many tournaments as possible as soon as possible. From your profile you obviously have a long way to go, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Just that you have a ton of room for improvement in your game. Practice hard, attend tournaments, and practice properly. If you do those things and have success, you will eventually be scouted by a good team.
I dont want to upset you, but is almost impossible to live from a game right now, its even harder than living from other sport imo. If you are dedicated, sure you will be great at the game (2ks its pretty good, but i started played just one month before the end of the beta and im at 2.4~ wthout any RTS before just) to notice, not that 2.4 is something) but to be a PRO you have to be very talented or have A LOT OF EXPERIENCE, and thats not just 1 year, most of the guys at the top has been around for like 5+ years in other RTS so it will be very hard to catch up.
But I can tell you that getting into a clan, or getting a bunch of active practice partners will help you like 10x improving than mass laddering, so it will be a good point to start, searching for that and start practicing one thing at a time, lets say you struggle with 4 gates, then go with your protoss partner and tell him to 4 gate 20 games or more if needed until you feel confident with that kind of play. Other than that, i cant help you further than this because im not a pro myself, but as some other guys said before, try to play in all online tournaments you can, meet people, and try to practice against the guys that can crush you, because that way you will learn faster than practicing against someone of your level or a little bit below.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
Flash is the exception. Flash is not a person, he is the God-child of Deep Blue and Galactus, Devourer of Worlds.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
I don't want to be negative here, but the old man in me is feels obligated to say that becoming a professional SC2 player seems about as easy as becoming an NBA player. And the sport hasn't matured yet.
There are 250 NBA players. There are 32 Code S GSL players.
But I'm speaking out of turn. Hopefully one of the pro's on this board will give you the real scoop.
There's probably 1000x more people who play basketball on a regular basis than starcraft 2 so I don't think it's easier (unless you are freakishly tall).
But as you say we need someone who has made a name for themselves to comment on this since they know best.
@the OP, you just have to realize that first of all, your improvement has been good but it's nothing special. You still have a loooong way to go and improvement comes slower as time goes on. It just comes down to dedication. Are you willing to practice 8+ hours a day, everyday? For me that would be no easy task as I get sick of the game after a few hours.
My advice first of all is: Find something else you are good at, that doesn't take much effort (ie, you are talented at), that someone will pay you for.
Chances are, this other thing will support you while you spend the time it takes to go pro. Do that thing well, as well. It will also become the thing most likely that supports you after you stop being a pro.
'Jobbers', like Fenix (I think?), a lot of the ROOT guys, and whatnot are going to be your role model for a while. Spending time sneaking in games on lunch breaks, thinking about new stuff on the clock at whatever job you choose, and generally loving the game will take you far.
And as much as I hate to say it, find someone currently highly ranked as well and dog the shit out of them until they become your friend. The social aspect of becoming a pro is not to be understated. You can learn a lot from a current pro, if you can befriend them. There is also a lot of soft skills that they will teach you, or that you can learn from them, like how to not get demotivated from losing, and how to handle tourney stress, stuff like that.
Also, emphasize getting better, not just playing games. Playing games is simple, but getting better is exhausting.
Let me post Junkka's epic speech after the GSL2 finals:
I'm gonna be talking my own things now as there isn't anything important to translate.
First of all I'd like to say I have a great respect for NesTea not just because he won the tournament but because this guy had the courage to do what he wanted to do and proved he was right.I'm saying this because too many people even in Korea consider playing games is a waste of time.I, myself, was unemployed for 2 years *laughs*, bout a year and a half before I joined GOM.All I did was play games at home and my friends would say that I'm wasting my life.Well...uhm..who's laughing now ?. I asked them " Can you honestly say that you like your job " and I asked them " Do you have a fan who draws a fanart just for you ? ". That shuts them up.
So everytime you feel ashamed of being a nerd and your friends, teachers, neighbours and even parents think gaming is a waste of time you'll remember there's no such thing as wasting life as long as you have the courage to do what you like and be passionate about it.You'll remember , if NesTea listened to all those critics he wouldn't be standing there with a trophy and you'll remember that even if you feel nobody around you supports you that I, Jay, Artosis and Tasteless, everyone in GOM will support you.Why ? Because we believe in esports. *someone in the backgroud :"wow" * *Junkka laughs* .I actually prepared this"
If you want to do it, just go for it. But as many people already pointed out. You need to finish high school first.
Just practice on ladder, join some online clan. You can be very good on ladder while study in high school. Many foreigners pro out there is semi-pro. Sen for example, he has been a semi pro since forever and he rocks in SC:BW and consider top foreigner in SC2 as well.
You don't need 8 hours a day if you are just a semi-pro imo. Just play as much as you can when you have free time. Try to participate on every online tournament that open to the public(like TL Open). Once you get through into the later round or event win them, pro team will notice you and you may have your shot.
I think 'pro' means you are S class in GSL. Anything less and you aren't really pro. If you are in a team house with S class players, you are semi-pro. That's my take on it now we no longer have pro licenses.
Your best bet to become pro is to win a really big lot of stuff so either TL or EG will invite you to their team house. Somehow standing out as someone with even more potential will probably help too. Look at TLO. He wasn't that good but had a certain style that made him appealing for TL to recruit. There you have to get S class at the next opportunity somewhere in 2011.
There's already tons and tons of people out there that would like to be in Korea. Yet they aren't. So the odds of you becoming pro anywhere soon are extremely extremely small. Especially if you have to ask this.
pro means getting paid to play the game, that's all there is to it
if you want to make a living off starcraft 2 you have to bring a whole new game to the table. Its constant analysis and critiquing of getting every bit of an advantage into your game. It is quite stressful and only few can do it.
If you're really serious, then of course you need to get noticed. Do LOTS of tournaments. You might find that you can't even keep up with tournament players, which is great to know early so you can perhaps decide to go a different way.
the way to make money in this game is to get good/recognized enough that people want you to 1) give lessons 2) make content 3) pay you to be on a team
The first two are really where the most amount of $$ comes from at the moment. Don't know about europe/asia - but in the USA that's what I've found to be true.
Tourneys. If you do well in online tourneys, as well as open tourneys. I believe you can go to a qualifier for MLG's, and if you do well, you'll probably get noticed. Approach teams, and if you're really good you can get picked up. That being said, being a pro SC2 gamer generally won't make you a living. I believe iNcontroL works at a gamestop (he did at the time of an interview I watched). Teams provide living stipends and travel stipends, but very few make a living on that alone. Coaching is an option if you're really well known, but it's hard to get paid for coaching if your name isn't out there.
If you really want to do it, it's possible, but unless you do something crazy like walk onto GSL and pull something really gosu like making RO8, It's going to be hard.
On December 10 2010 15:03 Kirameki wrote: I think 'pro' means you are S class in GSL. Anything less and you aren't really pro. If you are in a team house with S class players, you are semi-pro. That's my take on it now we no longer have pro licenses.
Your best bet to become pro is to win a really big lot of stuff so either TL or EG will invite you to their team house. Somehow standing out as someone with even more potential will probably help too. Look at TLO. He wasn't that good but had a certain style that made him appealing for TL to recruit. There you have to get S class at the next opportunity somewhere in 2011.
There's already tons and tons of people out there that would like to be in Korea. Yet they aren't. So the odds of you becoming pro anywhere soon are extremely extremely small. Especially if you have to ask this.
Your take on what "pro" means is wrong. the only thing "pro" means is "professional" as in "you do something as a profession" meaning you make money off of it. Therefore, if you make money doing something, you are "pro" at it, so to speak.
just make sure you have the mental for it, and be ready.
in my opinion, you will pass through a lot more failures than happy rewards on your path to become a progamer. You will most likely lose a lot of tourneys you attend, not earn enough money at the beginning to pay your rent, play a lot (10hrs a day) and seem to train but not get a reward.
Have a strong head, be positive and hope you have the talent/luck/connection to get far.
it will be one of the hardest things you've ever had to do. many people fail. that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to go for it. just realize that there will be many times where you'll feel like quitting and you have to be disciplined.
just a quick question qxc, do you think that ROOT, TL or any other clan will make a kinda of beginners clan where members can be placed that are not quite good enough to make the cut but show potential? I think that would be great for players like this to get experience playing at a high lever and allow them to show off their skills
Dont mean to burst your bubble but im around same age prob a bit younger and I wasnt in diamond before then a month later I am now 2200 diamond and rapidly improving this comes from what i began to learn from rts when I was even littler.
Your best hope is to join a team learn from people in the team and slowly move up the ranks. That is what im doing and I improved in a month as compared to 8. But keep at it always and be committed if you really like it. Just remember that its not all there is. Sure I would like to go pro but im not going to destroy my life to attempt it. This doesnt mean dont play a lot. Just means dont be stupid about it
On December 10 2010 15:23 SiCkO_ wrote: just a quick question qxc, do you think that ROOT, TL or any other clan will make a kinda of beginners clan where members can be placed that are not quite good enough to make the cut but show potential? I think that would be great for players like this to get experience playing at a high lever and allow them to show off their skills
I think they already do with their new recruits. I mean obviously I would want them to take me and train me up because I think I could go somewhere possibly, but I dont think that this is how it works. If they do though sign me up!!
OP, I was wondering where your decision to become so incorporated into e-sports was from. It takes more skill and dedication to become a pro than to finish highschool with decent grades and go to college.
As far as i know "going pro" is 50% luck, 50% skill. You have to play good (not necessary win) in a lot of open tournaments and have to have the luck to get noticed by someone looking for an addition for his pro-team.
You also have to have a supportive family, since even before you can earn money from playing you have to play so much that you don't have time for a full time job nor a lot of time for school/learning, especially since you are not that good yet.
Yes, some people manage to become pro while still having a job or being good in school, but thats one of a thousand that try.
If you haven't, watch Day[9] Daily #100, twice. And if you don't get wet eyes watching it, you don't have what it takes to become pro.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
I don't want to be negative here, but the old man in me is feels obligated to say that becoming a professional SC2 player seems about as easy as becoming an NBA player. And the sport hasn't matured yet.
There are 250 NBA players. There are 32 Code S GSL players.
But I'm speaking out of turn. Hopefully one of the pro's on this board will give you the real scoop.
There's probably 1000x more people who play basketball on a regular basis than starcraft 2 so I don't think it's easier (unless you are freakishly tall).
I did write as easy, no more.
But there are professional basketball leagues all over the world. You can sign with an international team, play in the Development Leagues ...
There's more opportunities to make a living overall, because of how ubiquitous the sport is.
On December 10 2010 15:03 Kirameki wrote: I think 'pro' means you are S class in GSL. Anything less and you aren't really pro. If you are in a team house with S class players, you are semi-pro. That's my take on it now we no longer have pro licenses.
Your best bet to become pro is to win a really big lot of stuff so either TL or EG will invite you to their team house. Somehow standing out as someone with even more potential will probably help too. Look at TLO. He wasn't that good but had a certain style that made him appealing for TL to recruit. There you have to get S class at the next opportunity somewhere in 2011.
There's already tons and tons of people out there that would like to be in Korea. Yet they aren't. So the odds of you becoming pro anywhere soon are extremely extremely small. Especially if you have to ask this.
Your take on what "pro" means is wrong. the only thing "pro" means is "professional" as in "you do something as a profession" meaning you make money off of it. Therefore, if you make money doing something, you are "pro" at it, so to speak.
So if I cash once in a casino, I am a professional gambler? You argument is exactly why your conclusion is wrong. If playing SC2 is your profession you are a semi-pro or a pro. If you make good money and/or are S class, you are a real pro.
Also, you don't want to be a professional gamer. It's not an enjoyable life. You only do so because you passion is so big you are a slave of your passion. Same with professional (skill based) musician or chess player. With sports it's kind of different because mostly you can't just grind so much until you are really really good. There, raw talent is more important. You cant play play football 10 hours a day, every day, for years. Otherwise, go enjoy a profitable and leisurely life. If you have the talent and discipline to be a progamer it shouldn't be hard to do that.
well you could try to be a caster like husky, hd, and daynine, where you could predominately get better @ sc and also make some moneys from youtube on the side.... gl hf on your quest, just remember what john the translator said...
Going pro in games like starcraft is a lot like going pro in poker: If you go into it with the mind set that you want it to be your career, most likely you will fail.
Just play for fun and learn on the way. If you develop the skills to compete in higher level tournaments, give it a shot but don't get hung up on it. The object of SC2 is to have fun, don't forget that.
You've got to do what you want. Screw what other people tell you. The main reason why I decided not to go professional is because I don't have the balls to sacrifice my education.
Having said that, your win rate and rating are about the same as mine. Make sure you properly think about the decision you're going to make because realistically there's no going back.
Don't listen to half of the guys in this thread saying you can't make it. I see this as similar to becoming a professional artist. You just have to put in a LOT of hours of work to become professional. It does not take natural talent, professionals don't use the word natural talent (or shouldn't). Talent means dedication. It truly does take some sort of talent to become MOTIVATED and DEDICATED to your craft. If you have ANY sort of passion for it, you will get there. The way you get there will be very very rough and difficult. You may sleep in your car for awhile, but you'll get there. Keep pushing. Forever a student.
On December 10 2010 15:03 Kirameki wrote: I think 'pro' means you are S class in GSL. Anything less and you aren't really pro. If you are in a team house with S class players, you are semi-pro. That's my take on it now we no longer have pro licenses.
Your best bet to become pro is to win a really big lot of stuff so either TL or EG will invite you to their team house. Somehow standing out as someone with even more potential will probably help too. Look at TLO. He wasn't that good but had a certain style that made him appealing for TL to recruit. There you have to get S class at the next opportunity somewhere in 2011.
There's already tons and tons of people out there that would like to be in Korea. Yet they aren't. So the odds of you becoming pro anywhere soon are extremely extremely small. Especially if you have to ask this.
Your take on what "pro" means is wrong. the only thing "pro" means is "professional" as in "you do something as a profession" meaning you make money off of it. Therefore, if you make money doing something, you are "pro" at it, so to speak.
So if I cash once in a casino, I am a professional gambler? You argument is exactly why your conclusion is wrong. If playing SC2 is your profession you are a semi-pro or a pro. If you make good money and/or are S class, you are a real pro.
Also, you don't want to be a professional gamer. It's not an enjoyable life. You only do so because you passion is so big you are a slave of your passion. Same with professional (skill based) musician or chess player. With sports it's kind of different because mostly you can't just grind so much until you are really really good. There, raw talent is more important. You cant play play football 10 hours a day, every day, for years. Otherwise, go enjoy a profitable and leisurely life. If you have the talent and discipline to be a progamer it shouldn't be hard to do that.
If going to the casino is your main source of income, then yes, you are a professional gambler.
On December 10 2010 15:56 Deadlyhazard wrote: Don't listen to half of the guys in this thread saying you can't make it. I see this as similar to becoming a professional artist. You just have to put in a LOT of hours of work to become professional. It does not take natural talent, professionals don't use the word natural talent (or shouldn't). Talent means dedication. It truly does take some sort of talent to become MOTIVATED and DEDICATED to your craft. If you have ANY sort of passion for it, you will get there. The way you get there will be very very rough and difficult. You may sleep in your car for awhile, but you'll get there. Keep pushing. Forever a student.
i practice quite a lot, however my mechanics/micro never improve, and my army control is some of the worst ever for my rating. I think that makes for an argument that you need natural talent, as im pretty sure some of the top players don't practice as much as some amateurs. (stork hardly practices yet he is one of the best protoss)
On December 10 2010 15:03 Kirameki wrote: I think 'pro' means you are S class in GSL. Anything less and you aren't really pro. If you are in a team house with S class players, you are semi-pro. That's my take on it now we no longer have pro licenses.
Your best bet to become pro is to win a really big lot of stuff so either TL or EG will invite you to their team house. Somehow standing out as someone with even more potential will probably help too. Look at TLO. He wasn't that good but had a certain style that made him appealing for TL to recruit. There you have to get S class at the next opportunity somewhere in 2011.
There's already tons and tons of people out there that would like to be in Korea. Yet they aren't. So the odds of you becoming pro anywhere soon are extremely extremely small. Especially if you have to ask this.
Your take on what "pro" means is wrong. the only thing "pro" means is "professional" as in "you do something as a profession" meaning you make money off of it. Therefore, if you make money doing something, you are "pro" at it, so to speak.
So if I cash once in a casino, I am a professional gambler? You argument is exactly why your conclusion is wrong. If playing SC2 is your profession you are a semi-pro or a pro. If you make good money and/or are S class, you are a real pro.
Also, you don't want to be a professional gamer. It's not an enjoyable life. You only do so because you passion is so big you are a slave of your passion. Same with professional (skill based) musician or chess player. With sports it's kind of different because mostly you can't just grind so much until you are really really good. There, raw talent is more important. You cant play play football 10 hours a day, every day, for years. Otherwise, go enjoy a profitable and leisurely life. If you have the talent and discipline to be a progamer it shouldn't be hard to do that.
I believe he did not phrase that the best. "pros"="professionals" and in the case of starcraft, they make a living off it. That is the exact definition of a professional. Cashing in at a casino would usually be from a hobby, similar to an "amateur" starcraft player playing at a small tournament for $50--anyone who does not make their living off starcraft would be considered "amateur" like you or me. In that sense, you do NOT need to be S-class to be considered pro. According to your logic, HuK and TLO are not "pros", even though they make a living from starcraft? In addition, from what I understand, many of the Korean pros receive salary which would be provided by sponsors and such, so they do not make a living 100% off tournaments.
OP, I recommend you read Lim Yohwan's autobiography. If you do go through with your decision, just make sure you don't regret it later on in life, and of course, it will be difficult.
On December 10 2010 15:56 Deadlyhazard wrote: Don't listen to half of the guys in this thread saying you can't make it. I see this as similar to becoming a professional artist. You just have to put in a LOT of hours of work to become professional. It does not take natural talent, professionals don't use the word natural talent (or shouldn't). Talent means dedication. It truly does take some sort of talent to become MOTIVATED and DEDICATED to your craft. If you have ANY sort of passion for it, you will get there. The way you get there will be very very rough and difficult. You may sleep in your car for awhile, but you'll get there. Keep pushing. Forever a student.
i practice quite a lot, however my mechanics/micro never improve, and my army control is some of the worst ever for my rating. I think that makes for an argument that you need natural talent, as im pretty sure some of the top players don't practice as much as some amateurs. (stork hardly practices yet he is one of the best protoss)
Do you actually put in 5+ hours EVERY single day? At least? Because if you only play sporadically and never analyze your games in replays AND look for outside criticism, you'll never improve. Just like art or music.
On December 10 2010 15:56 Deadlyhazard wrote: Don't listen to half of the guys in this thread saying you can't make it. I see this as similar to becoming a professional artist. You just have to put in a LOT of hours of work to become professional. It does not take natural talent, professionals don't use the word natural talent (or shouldn't). Talent means dedication. It truly does take some sort of talent to become MOTIVATED and DEDICATED to your craft. If you have ANY sort of passion for it, you will get there. The way you get there will be very very rough and difficult. You may sleep in your car for awhile, but you'll get there. Keep pushing. Forever a student.
As a guy that's been working as an illustrator and designer the past ten years, and seen A LOT of people with all the talent in the world fade in and out of my industry:
Don't do it because you want to be on TV. Dont' do it because you think you'll make money. Don't do it for fan art. Don't do it because you think it's the only thing you're good at.
All that shit changes and comes and goes over ten years.
DO IT BECAUSE YOU LOVE IT.
You better enjoy it so much, that even if you DON'T make it you'll be happy.
On December 10 2010 15:46 OnFiRe888 wrote: well you could try to be a caster like husky, hd, and daynine, where you could predominately get better @ sc and also make some moneys from youtube on the side.... gl hf on your quest, just remember what john the translator said...
this is wrong on the examples. Day[9] was one of the top BW players for USA for years. He was on the USA A-team, competed in WCG USA for multiple years. He is good at SC2 because he was goon in BW. He's a good commentator because he knows his shit from playing.
Same goes for Artosis, Tasteless, and the Korean commentators (Nal_Ra, Garimto, Kingdom, etc...)
If you want to get good at anything, it takes a ton of practice. Not just for a month or two, but years. If you can compete with the best on a consistent level, then you might be on the path to become a professional gamer. If you can't seem to hold your ground against top players the majority of the games, then you will have to take gaming as everyone else, a fun hobby with a little bit of competitiveness here and there.
On December 10 2010 16:05 ShangMing wrote: I believe he did not phrase that the best. "pros"="professionals" and in the case of starcraft, they make a living off it. That is the exact definition of a professional.
Yes, obviously. That is my point.
Cashing in at a casino would usually be from a hobby, similar to an "amateur" starcraft player playing at a small tournament for $50-
So if you are an amateur and you cash you are an amateur. But then when are you a pro? This is either an incomplete argument or a circular one. What if we have a unemployed amateur, as in it is not his job, who has rich parents/friends who give him a lot of money to gamble with and he makes a huge sum at a game he takes very seriously.
TLO is an amateur any definition you can come up with. He might even be a retired or inactive amateur. Did he start playing again? Huk is semi-pro as he spends training full time but has barely made any money. Idra and Jinro are progamers.
In addition, from what I understand, many of the Korean pros receive salary which would be provided by sponsors and such, so they do not make a living 100% off tournaments.
Never heard much about salaries in Sc2 except Boxer. But that's just his star power.
On December 10 2010 15:56 Deadlyhazard wrote: Don't listen to half of the guys in this thread saying you can't make it. I see this as similar to becoming a professional artist. You just have to put in a LOT of hours of work to become professional. It does not take natural talent, professionals don't use the word natural talent (or shouldn't). Talent means dedication. It truly does take some sort of talent to become MOTIVATED and DEDICATED to your craft. If you have ANY sort of passion for it, you will get there. The way you get there will be very very rough and difficult. You may sleep in your car for awhile, but you'll get there. Keep pushing. Forever a student.
As a guy that's been working as an illustrator and designer the past ten years, and seen A LOT of people with all the talent in the world fade in and out of my industry:
Don't do it because you want to be on TV. Dont' do it because you think you'll make money. Don't do it for fan art. Don't do it because you think it's the only thing you're good it.
All that shit changes and comes and goes over ten years.
DO IT BECAUSE YOU LOVE IT.
You better enjoy it so much, that even if you DON'T make it you'll be happy.
This this and this.
Especially those four reasons for NOT doing it. ESPECIALLY money and the TV thing!
Rise the ladder, join amatuer team, perform well in team leagues and open tournaments. Get noticed by better team, merc to new team where you are getting paid a small salary. Congratualtions you are a (semi) pro.
Unless you can really get to the top 10 in the ladder or think you can currently take on top players in tournaments, you probably shouldn't be making pro-gaming your primary and only potential career choice. Even pros like iNcontrol have college degrees and other jobs, and there's no reason to think you're at a Jinro/HuK/IdrA level -- the level where you can fully sustain yourself through gaming.
I'm only saying this because it's pretty dangerous to give up college to game, when you could very well fail and not have a fallback. And the problem is, if you take time off after high school, colleges want to know why so applying after taking a year off basically means you won't be able to go where your normally would've been able to.
I forgot to add this so here: There are currently only around 50-ish people in the world who can financially sustain themselves by playing Starcraft, and the vast majority of them are Korean. Even top "pros" who are consitently at the top of tourneys and the ladder can't support themselves through SC. Everyone in Root Gaming has a job or is in college. The same applies for most of EG (save IdrA). Same for VT. Same for the lesser teams (Inflow, vVv, etc.) So the question then becomes, do you think you can compete with and become one of those top 50? If not, you really shouldn't be making SC your full-time dedication because even top pros haven't done so.
so how do people actually start to make a living off of it? Players usually get a small fee for living expenses, but not much of a living outside of the top percentile. do you have to move to korea like IdrA and just find every little tournament plus GSL? No, there are professionals in Russia, Germany, Sweden, America, and even South America ! However they are a few specific people in the Americas, and Russia and Germany are because of their strong RTS past. cant you join a clan and get sponsored or something? Well sure, but you must remember they are going to expect a percentage of your winnings returned back to them, you're better off riding your own capital if you have any sort of promise as then you will be able to pocket the cash rather then give 75%+ to the team for travel and accommodations since they wont be relying on you getting 1st place.
If you enjoy living underneath the poverty line, without giving anything back to the community, and being a drain on your family, North American Esports are for you ! If none of these things appeal to you, please stay in school, or get a full time job to stimulate the economy.
having my conscience cleared from my earlier posts, if i do see you in a couple of years being casted or in GSL, you will always be my favorite pro gamer.
If you line in usa/can, the only way to get better and become a pro is to get a korean/euro account and ladder for 6 months, then comeback, beat up NA noobs, get known, Get picked up by a good team, ditch your team for a better team, goto gsl, make round of 64, and there you go. P.s. A pro is a player who gets paid to play. There are only 10 usa/can players probably thats gets paid?
Do the minigun way and just mass games, while streaming.
On December 10 2010 16:05 ShangMing wrote: I believe he did not phrase that the best. "pros"="professionals" and in the case of starcraft, they make a living off it. That is the exact definition of a professional.
Cashing in at a casino would usually be from a hobby, similar to an "amateur" starcraft player playing at a small tournament for $50-
So if you are an amateur and you cash you are an amateur. But then when are you a pro? This is either an incomplete argument or a circular one. What if we have a unemployed amateur, as in it is not his job, who has rich parents/friends who give him a lot of money to gamble with and he makes a huge sum at a game he takes very seriously.
TLO is an amateur any definition you can come up with. He might even be a retired or inactive amateur. Did he start playing again? Huk is semi-pro as he spends training full time but has barely made any money. Idra and Jinro are progamers.
In addition, from what I understand, many of the Korean pros receive salary which would be provided by sponsors and such, so they do not make a living 100% off tournaments.
Never heard much about salaries in Sc2 except Boxer. But that's just his star power.
You're not understanding the definition of "pro" at all.
An amateur gambler plays on the side, while they have a main job that supports them. A professional gambler plays as this main job. You are correct in that the definition of "pro" can be ambiguous as you've provided in your example, however it is undeniable that not only S-class players are "pros". To call someone like HuK a semi-pro is a huge insult, in my opinion, also as IdrA said in a recent interview with Artosis, many of of the current S-Class players don't even belong up there.
And from tournaments alone, IdrA has not made that much at all... If he were to financially support himself, the money would presumably be from a salary from his team, which would apply to other players on other teams as well. On a last note, many top Korean BW players make 6 figures.
Just because there is competition doesn't mean you can't make it. I wonder why so many people have defeatist attitude. If there are people who have achieved it then why can't some one else provided he has enough dedication? Do what your heart desires. We get only one life and you shall leave no room for regret. This however, means you ABSOLUTELY love Starcraft 2 and will not be dissuaded by failures. Dedication.. no Utter Dedication is the key to success.
PS:I gave a competition with 7,50,000 people for my job (I am from India and competition here is FIERCE) out of this only a thousand or so will be elected oh and by the way its minimum requirement is Graduate level education!
On December 10 2010 16:30 ShangMing wrote: And from tournaments alone, IdrA has not made that much at all... If he were to financially support himself, the money would presumably be from a salary from his team, which would apply to other players on other teams as well. On a last note, many top Korean BW players make 6 figures.
EG and Liquid are probably the only Western teams with salaried players, and even then not all of EG is salaried (well enough to live off, at least). And about the top Korean BW pros: very few of them make 6-figures.
Idmaif, alright, if you want to become pro, start off with American tournaments. Get your rank up on the US rankings and participate in US based tournaments to increase your skill and popularity. I believe there use to be a weekly tournament off gosucoaching, not sure about now but you just really need to start participating in TeamLiquid affiliated or just regular US tournaments. TLO was a nobody but participated in a TeamLiquid tournament and gain instant popularity DUE TO his creativity. So not only do you have to participate in tournaments but acquire good results or provide entertaining gameplay for viewers.
Well, if the other guys made it, there's really no reason for why you shouldn't be able to. The proper dedication, and most importantly prioritizing is key. Make sure that your practice is focused, with a goal instead of mindlessly massing games.
There'll always be countless amounts of neigh sayers until you break through - and that part is solely up to you.
The thing with being pro, a lot of time needs to be put into it.
Those who come from a BW background already have a huge advantage. Also, tons of games, analysis, hourly repetitive practice, discussion on strategies, studying opponents, is where you start to achieve pro level. And this isn't even a guarantee. You'll slowly start to see that this consumes a lot of time that can't be managed if SC2 will not be a proper amount of income to sustain living.
Bottom line: If you want to be pro level SC2, you have to put a lot of time into the game. And this doesn't mean just laddering a lot. Anyone can ladder for hours.
To become a pro you really need to be passionate about the game. You first have to be willing to put in many hours a day to constantly be improving yourself. You have to treat gaming as somewhat like a class in school, except it may actually be fun. You practice and study the game to figure it out and become better, and tournaments are like tests to prove your skill.
By winning or placing high in tournaments, especially if you can take big names out is a very good start to getting into a team where you can potentially get paid from sponsors, as you really need to find a way to stand out from the crowd.
I think you should set some small goals for yourself -- like five or six tournaments over the next year --- and practice your balls off, hang out at lans, participate in the community etc.
Re-evaluate your situation in say, 18 months.
You'll have a much better idea if you have what it takes -- and if you enjoy it enough to make it a career.
While not a SC¨tarcraft referance, I still think its vaild as it show the commitment needed: Used to play a game called Americas Army, a FPS where you competed in teams of 4v4 or 6v6 (some crazy 8v8 matches also, but that was mostly for lulz) I was a member of one of the premier team of the time (42.the Answer, in case you were curious) we had near flawless records in the ladder brackets and tournament brackets alike.
Anyway, expect practicing for a few times a week together we played on public realms pretty much the rest of the free time we had, to find corky new ways to jump, toss grenades, shooting patterns and best possible routes to move.
We had a whole forum section for each map, were every member had uploaded screen dumps of possible grenade bounches (ex. stand at EXACTLY this spot, aim at this pixel of the pole, 0.5 "cook" toss and the grenade will fly through a window spring around the corner, instantly exploding when landing in the room) finding these took hours upon hours upon hours, but it payed off.
So what I'm saying basically is that in order to get to the top, not only do you have to play like a madman, you have to spent countless hours on finding the absolute top way to preform an action. And you need a helluva lot of luck ending up with the right people.
First of all, if you want to go pro, you shouldnt even be making this thread. Just set the goal of becoming pro, and follow your aspirations through winning tournaments and such. If u are even asking for people's opinion on going pro, then you don't deserve to become one
Secondly, ask yourself this question. Are you willing to give up your personal space, relaxation time and your friends and other things to play games? If you can give up, then i can see you making it. If not, just forget about it. Its not as simple as so many people make it out to be, korean pros literally practice for hours every single day. Talent is going to only take you so far if you don't hone it.
The fastest way would be to go to one of the many MLG events and play against many professional players and win. But good luck doing that without training with a team.
You need to win tournaments. It's the most likely the only way to go professional. Ladder is more of a way to try new strategies/cheese for pros at the moment. Its what you and I would consider a custom melee match after grinding the ladder for 5 hours.
On December 10 2010 16:27 hmunkey wrote: I forgot to add this so here: There are currently only around 50-ish people in the world who can financially sustain themselves by playing Starcraft, and the vast majority of them are Korean. Even top "pros" who are consitently at the top of tourneys and the ladder can't support themselves through SC. Everyone in Root Gaming has a job or is in college. The same applies for most of EG (save IdrA). Same for VT. Same for the lesser teams (Inflow, vVv, etc.) So the question then becomes, do you think you can compete with and become one of those top 50? If not, you really shouldn't be making SC your full-time dedication because even top pros haven't done so.
Only "50" people can sustain themselves at the moment because there's no money being put into pro-gaming. Suggesting to people that they can't make it as a pro-gamer is one way to keep it at 50.
Based on your current profile, I don`t think you should make a decision now to pursue becoming a pro gamer. My advice is to focus on both school and starcraft and after you graduate, evaluate how far you have gotten. You will also be more wiser in a couple years to make that decision as well.
The only thing you have to sacrifice now is your social life.
I don't think you got what it takes. I didn't even play beta, I bought the game in September, I have played a total of 350 games. And I have more points than you have, so don't think you are a "fast learner".
Did you watch Jinro play? Unless you can do what he does in the near future, then I don't think you should go pro. If you can get into a decent university, gogogogogo. Education > all.
I think its great that you have ambition for the game but I think that its important at this point to make sure that you have solid backup plans.
E-sports are not like real sports where you can get college scholarships easily and get a free education even if you dont go pro.
Im gonna have to strongly strongly recommend that you focus on school and work before you focus on video games. Im not saying that you should forget about your dream, im just saying that you should have a fall back plan, and you should understand that it is very likely that you will end up going to your fall back plan, so make sure that it is a good one.
In an interview IdrA gave about leaving CJ Entus he stated that one of the reasons was the practice regime which included:
12 - 14 hours a day of practice 2 hours of "free" gaming
and 2 days off a month...
12 months a year = 24 days off per year.
365 - 24 = 341 days. With an average of 14 hours of gaming in general per day that is about 4,774 hours a year of gaming. When people talk about sacrifice they do not joke. IdrA could have been approximating/my memory could be totally fucked; but the commitment is huge.
This isn't me saying don't do it - this is me saying if you''re serious; drop everything you're doing and commit, 100% to gaming. The biggest deal i would say is participating in tournaments; any experienced player will tell you that laddering is a different world to tournament play. Tournaments, tournaments, tournaments. That is all i can suggest. Oh and participate in tournaments.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
Korean progaming is much different from the way top foreign players (outside of Asia) play. It's not an option to just "stop school" and play.
as qxc already said, you'll make more money giving lessons than actually winning tournaments. you just have to be able to get good enough to be respected in the community.
On December 10 2010 16:30 ShangMing wrote: You're not understanding the definition of "pro" at all.
I understand it perfectly well. I am just very confused as to what your position is as you seem to be confused about it and using circular reasoning.
An amateur gambler plays on the side, while they have a main job that supports them.
So what about people who can't support themselves through progaming, play on the side and don't have a job? Like almost every foreign player outside of Korea?
So what about top amateurs back in SC BW? Where they semi-pro too?
To call someone like HuK a semi-pro is a huge insult, in my opinion, also as IdrA said in a recent interview with Artosis, many of of the current S-Class players don't even belong up there.
You are confused again. People in S class aren't pro but it is an insult to call Huk a semi-pro? Huk won tournaments where the prize money equals the costs of attending. Huk isn't S class. Those people in S class won a lot of money and are on the track of making more, as GSL prize pool is so huge because of Blizzard.
And from tournaments alone, IdrA has not made that much at all... If he were to financially support himself, the money would presumably be from a salary from his team, which would apply to other players on other teams as well. On a last note, many top Korean BW players make 6 figures.
lol
Idra had or still has a progaming license, which is the definition of being a progamer in BW. You are semi-pro in BW if you are on a proteam but don't have a license. Idra is also S class. So how is Idra not a progamer? But calling Huk a semi-pro is offensive?
You are new to esports, new to TL and you are confused about your own position.
Please specify, by pro do you mean playing on Korean TV or having notability among online communities within the United States? Even the latter will not be easy, and you will likely not net any cash(practicing for hours and hours each day, time that could have been spent working at a standard job.) It is the dream of millions to be a pro gamer. Also bear in mind do this for the love of the game, even if you do achieve notability after thousands of hours of practice and make a decent show in a few tournaments your name will not go down in the history books, and you will be all but forgotten about in a few months as everyone jumps onto the bandwagon of the next upstart. I mean not to discourage you but this is the way things are in the world of e-sports. Despite all of this if you still want to go for it it is your choice. Just make an informed decision prior to potentially waisting years of the best time of your life.
If you want to be considered to join a pro team you're going to have to be good enough to prove it by winning in tournaments. You should be able to win any low profile local tournaments that are going on in your area for starters. If you can't even do that then there's no hope of competing in big tournaments like MLG, IEM, or the GSL, the tournaments that actually pay out substantial prize money.
You'll be expected to consistently qualify through huge brackets of people and compete on an even playing field with the likes of other pro gamers. So my advice is, go play in tournaments, online or offline, and find out for yourself how difficult it is, and whether or not you're really ready to make that kind of commitment. One thing you should remember is that trying to become a pro-gamer is a gamble. Even if you have all the passion in the world for Starcraft 2, there is no way to be guaranteed success. As much as it sucks, natural talent is a huge factor in one's ability to be successful at the very top levels.
To be brutally honest, if you had RTS talent you would be much higher than 2000 diamond, which is pretty ordinary for those who put in a decent amount of time to playing. I'm around 2000 and I hardly ever play the game.
It sounds like you are pretty set on this, so here is what I think you should do. Dedicate a few months, maybe 3-4 after school to see how high you can go. Attend every live and online tournament you can, and ladder like a madman. If you are not in the top 30 or so on the ladder at the end, with some good tournament results, then I would quit and pursue a career that will actually get you somewhere in life. There is no reason you can't play Starcraft as a hobby like most of us. Besides, pro-gamers work like dogs for relatively little pay. Their practice routines are borderline inhuman.
Its corny, I know, and it feels like watching a cheesy MTV special but its actually dead on about the industry of progaming.
Step 2:
If you still want to dedicate your life to becoming a pro gamer after considerring the requirements to realistically make a living off gaming, and the potential hardship and consequences it takes to get to the top (very very small % of people ever get paid to play games professionally). Now consider how many people enter for qualifiers in a tournament, and only maybe 2-3 take home money.
And keep in mind that ALL of them practice just as much as the top players to achieve even this.
Now you must practice. Practice until your eyes bleed, dedicate every waking hour you ahve to improving, find people to learn from, study your game, study everything you can about getting every advantage in the game. Timings, specifics, tricks, all of this is necessary to be the best. You MUST play a LOT.
Step 3:
Enter tournaments. If you're a rising star you'll get noticed, by teams, apply for sponsorships, or get noticed enough that you can recieve sponsorships. Use your vast experience and knowledge of the game to teach others and sell coaching lessons. This will sustain you more than tournament winnings will unless you're a natural IdrA (who I should add played brood war competitively for YEARS to reach the status he is at).
----
This is how you become pro, but being a successful professional gamer is hard, and most of the time not worth it. I have been offered sponsorship to play q3a and WoW arena competitively in the past, while the idea of playing q3 for money was intriguing (I won ~$300 total in local/online ladder tournaments), I was also going to college, and did not feel dumping my future was worth the minimal gain I saw in competing. I didn't feel I was good enough to warrant dropping out of school and screwing up my future for a game.
The offer for Arena competing was also intriguing, but by thsi time I had a paying career and the amount that my friend (who was on our team that got offered sponsorship) makes is really really low. Its a livable salary that he makes in total, but I opt to keep my career and make stable income.
So think about that much, and remember that pro gaming can be an awesome thing to get into, if you have the drive, ambition, and can really play any game at a high level naturally, you'll be able to survive in the industry. Otherwise I highly recommend against it. Being good at SC2 isn't hard, but being as good as the people who win tournaments is another story, and most of them really only break even on the winnings. As many people have already pointed out in the thread so far.
I started 4 weeks after the game came out, coming from a FPS scene and started in bronze with 2 wins and 33 losses after my first 35 games. I know stand at 2k diamond with 60%+ win ratio (including my initial 30 losses) what you've achieved is in all honesty nothing, and this is the scary thing about bonus pool. 6weeks back, OMG huk hit 2k points, he is so fucking pro. 6weeks later, inflation occurs, holy shit im at 2k. me > huk.
However, Enter every online tourny, TLopen,ESL series, every lan etc. CONSISTENT (thats the important word here - many people can pull off a one-off fluke win @ X tournament) get into the top 8/4/final etc etc. Then you'll be spotted.
Only one who can stop you from being a professional gamer, is you.
But you will need a few things - 6 - 8 hours a day training /practicing - Find Practice partners who are better then you - Watch / Study Replays (Worked in to your 6 - 8 hours) -Study Build Orders -Timings -And the replay. Terrans will save 2 scans for the 7:30 minute mark. Why? Thats Around the Time DT's are going to be out. Its stuff like that that puts Professional gamers on a new level.
Advice. I would Hit the top 200 and then buy lessons from a player you respect on Gosucoaching.com. Thats what I did. It will kind of help you get put on the radar. + you will have a few replays to release :D
there was a national geographic documentary covering the wcg 2005 SCBW scene and they injected Xellos (top korean at that time) and a newb with these things that would go into their brain and they could monitor how their brain reacted while playing starcraft and what they learned is that xellos brain reacts very differently then the newb in ways that different lobes were used in much higher % than the other guys, so you might have to have a special brain to do it but if its your dream then you can do it you just have to invest 100%
On December 10 2010 14:10 Waking wrote: Also, sorry to be a dick but I started playing late in the beta (had never really played an RTS before) and went from low silver to ~2500 diamond in about 7months.
Duwd, it everybody starts posting his/her SC2 experience, nothing will help him. Besides, this is my first RTS, playing for 2 months and im crushing 2k+ diamonds --> but it doesn't matter at all to the OP
On December 10 2010 14:10 Waking wrote: Also, sorry to be a dick but I started playing late in the beta (had never really played an RTS before) and went from low silver to ~2500 diamond in about 7months.
Duwd, it everybody starts posting his/her SC2 experience, nothing will help him. Besides, this is my first RTS, playing for 2 months and im crushing 2k+ diamonds --> but it doesn't matter at all to the OP
Actually it does. He's gotta be realistic, 8 months from bronze to 2k diamond is not that impressive, he needs to work a lot harder than that. if he thinks thats impressive then he needs to know that its a lot harder than he thinks
you can't just say "I will go pro" what your really need to do is just play have fun and try to learn. Play some turnies here and there and just have fun playing. if it turns out you are wining allot you might aim for making it a living but don't start with "by this amount of time I will be pro" because that won't work as the level of play that is required for the highest level is so insanely high (even now when its actually not that high compared to what it will be in a few years).
"Going pro" and "getting good" are 2 different things.
Work out if "getting good" is possible yet; 8 months to 2000+ isn't indicative of this yet. Note that in Korea, the top30 in the ladder obviously means fuck all when it comes to the GSL; theres only a few "good" players in the top part of the ladder there who succeed in the GSL. So I wouldn't use any ladder stats as a yard stick for skill just yet.
The first part is to get to the top part of the ladder and how you adapt to play when you start getting matched up against some of the best players. Actually if you do very well in this latter stage, you will undoubtedly be noticed by teams and other good players, the next natural step would be to do well in tournaments and the such.
But first figure out if you have the talent for it; I know alot of people talk about "14 hours a day = pro" but alot of the SC1 players do this and still don't make it because they haven't got that physical factor.
On December 10 2010 14:02 Socke wrote: the problem is that most of the really good guys have been playing rts competitively for many years.. its really hard to catch up to that being new to rts. best way to get better is to be focused on improving while grinding many many games. then do well in tournaments and get sponsorship
ur not completely right but its a huge advantage being in the scene from the start.
Play more games, Make SC2 ur life, watch everything you can and improve by playing. You dont have enough games played and at ur current stand you wouldn't even make master league, right now to get master you need at least 2300 points. Dont dedicate urself until you get at least there. Your first goal is top200, during ur training to get to top 200 you need to compete in every tournament out there, go deep vs known players or win a bunch and you will get seen.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
Flash was a pro when he was 15, but he started playing when he was 12. He didn't just become one of the arguably best players of the time in like, a month.
There is a life after the age of 16 guys, concentrate on schoool, maybe take part in tournaments when you're in your mid-twenties, you may pick up sponsorship and have some fun with it, and you may also be very surprised by how happy you are that you have eSports AND a nice college education under your belt. The world is out there, don't limit your choices now for the sake of corporate sponsorship. Equally however, it's your choice, that's what's so good about it, there are no rules to follow really.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
Flash was a pro when he was 15, but he started playing when he was 12. He didn't just become one of the arguably best players of the time in like, a month.
He did become an S-class player unusually fast though. ^__^
It's not wasting your life if you stay in school and do well and then see what you can do. Keep practicing hard as a hobby with a focus on improving your play and go from there. Who cares if you spend your down hours watching TV, at an extracurricular activity, or practicing starcraft.
Do well in school, don't close other doors in your future over the slim possibility of becoming a pro gamer.
The only way to get better is to play better opponents. Do that and you'll be fine. Little things like managing your own psychology so you're getting the most out of each engagement make a big difference. Don't listen to haters. Win tourneys, get offers. If you dont win major tournaments after your 4th or 5th try, best go try something else and stick to this a hobby. You can make a lot more money than a pro gamer in other professions, so do them for a day job.
On December 10 2010 19:45 pksens wrote: "Going pro" and "getting good" are 2 different things.
Work out if "getting good" is possible yet; 8 months to 2000+ isn't indicative of this yet. Note that in Korea, the top30 in the ladder obviously means fuck all when it comes to the GSL; theres only a few "good" players in the top part of the ladder there who succeed in the GSL. So I wouldn't use any ladder stats as a yard stick for skill just yet.
The first part is to get to the top part of the ladder and how you adapt to play when you start getting matched up against some of the best players. Actually if you do very well in this latter stage, you will undoubtedly be noticed by teams and other good players, the next natural step would be to do well in tournaments and the such.
But first figure out if you have the talent for it; I know alot of people talk about "14 hours a day = pro" but alot of the SC1 players do this and still don't make it because they haven't got that physical factor.
4 of top 30 in korea are foxer accounts that people know about.
You become semi-pro when the IRS knows you play Starcraft, and that means you're getting at least some money. You then become a pro when you can make a living off Starcraft.
By spending your free time when you're not working on school practicing sc2 instead of reading TL and posting pointless threads.
You will never become pro by posting your diamond profile in a thread and ask whether or not you're fucking awesome and should quit school. The step from non pro to pro should be getting a paid offer to train full time, because if you need to train 10 hours to be as good as someone who plays 3 hours its not looking good.
OP here! thanks for all the great replies! im going to responde to a lot of things people have said.
for the ones who say that it is not worth missing college: we go to college and get a good job to be rich and live a fun and happy life. but if i am living a fun and happy life anyway just by working, then its fine!
for the ones who say that say i need a backup plan: i know this, i will get some part time job while im working my way up so that can pay for everything with SC2 tourneys to make up the difference.
for the ones who say that 2k so far isnt good: let me tell you just the experiences ive had so far. so during the beta, you know, all new players suck and just have to learn everything. around the end of the beta, i started playing as zerg and was around high gold level back then, but as the game came out, i shot up right into diamond in a few weeks, back then i kinda only played casually but lately i have been really working myself to do 1v1. i have played in a few local tournaments (plus 2 more this month) and a few online tournaments, i know i have to get recognized, i just need to practice a little more. remember: i said i was in highschool, i still have 1.5-2 years left to get from mid-high diamond to top diamond so i think that can be a realistic goal.
for those of you telling me just not to drop out of highschool: i know this. i was never planning on it because my parents would never let me. i am just spending the last of my highschool years just dedicating myself to just practicing, and of course over the summers i will play like 15 hours a day and really work then.
i know i have to watch lots of pro games too, i do a lot. i usually right now during school spend about 3 hours a day playing and about 1 hour of watching pro games and then the day9 daily.
and i know that i have more than just 2 years to get pro because a lot of the pros out there are in their early 20's so i still have 4 or 5 years even for that.
thanks again to everyone. (and lol, the first game i played today, the guy was like "didnt you make that huge thread on TL?")
I would start by playing in and winning small online tournaments, to get a feel for the skill level of top players in a tournament setting. Then move on to slightly larger online tournaments like the TL Open and GosuCoaching open tournemnts. If you can win those, you are definitely pro level, and I'd try going to an MLG.
Performance research has shown that to become an expert at something, you have to work at it 40 hours a week, every week, for 5 years. So the main ingredient to becoming pro is dedication.
Good luck on your quest to top 200. Only 3600 ranks to climb!
I'd say the most important thing for starters is that you need to switch from just playing the game to actually practising the game i.e. work on your mechanics, learn builds etc.
Come on guys don't you remember yourselves in highschool? The kid will probably get a girlfriend the next week and start dreaming of being a football player. And then consider becoming a lawyer or some shit...
Remember there is no guarantee you'll even make it, the pros who make a lot of money have been playing for SC FOR 12 years, not since beta so don't get your hopes up. Not saying it can't be done but be realistic.
On December 10 2010 18:56 ste0731 wrote: I started 4 weeks after the game came out, coming from a FPS scene and started in bronze with 2 wins and 33 losses after my first 35 games. I know stand at 2k diamond with 60%+ win ratio (including my initial 30 losses) what you've achieved is in all honesty nothing, and this is the scary thing about bonus pool. 6weeks back, OMG huk hit 2k points, he is so fucking pro. 6weeks later, inflation occurs, holy shit im at 2k. me > huk.
However, Enter every online tourny, TLopen,ESL series, every lan etc. CONSISTENT (thats the important word here - many people can pull off a one-off fluke win @ X tournament) get into the top 8/4/final etc etc. Then you'll be spotted.
Bonus pool is fine because it inflates EVERYONE's points at the same rate. Sure 2k back a few months ago was top of the league, but now its 3k, you basically go by that and your world ranking rather than just your points alone.
I started out in gold or so, who knows what rank, now top 2000 so I'd say I came a long way overall, but I wouldn't think I'm anywhere near ready to go pro because of it lol.
You might as well start practicing very hard while you are in school. Also don't forget to do your studies at the same time (or do as much as you can at school that you'll have minimal homework time and spend the rest of the day at home).. Assuming you got like 3 years to decide (mid way thru middle school.. got no idea how ur school system works) you should have plenty of time (1-3 years) of grinding, refining ur macro and working on your mindset. And if it doesnt work out in the end and you don't want to pursue that career. You could always fall back onto your education...
just my advice,,, it gives u more options i guess...
The first thing you need to do is to win some online tourney so you get picked up by a serious team. No real chance of making any money just by sitting at the top of the ladder.
The first and obvious is become better at the game. I'm sorry but if you have any dreams of even competing in recognizable tournaments you'll probably need a good 1000 more points than you currently have on the ladder. So you should probably hunker down and improve your mechanics and game before trying to take the "next step."
Then, follow the path similar to TLO. Be a phenomenal player, win open tournaments with consistent play and become a name in the community. This isn't KeSPA anymore, you don't need to apply to become a progamer it just happens these days.
On December 10 2010 18:56 ste0731 wrote: I started 4 weeks after the game came out, coming from a FPS scene and started in bronze with 2 wins and 33 losses after my first 35 games. I know stand at 2k diamond with 60%+ win ratio (including my initial 30 losses) what you've achieved is in all honesty nothing, and this is the scary thing about bonus pool. 6weeks back, OMG huk hit 2k points, he is so fucking pro. 6weeks later, inflation occurs, holy shit im at 2k. me > huk.
However, Enter every online tourny, TLopen,ESL series, every lan etc. CONSISTENT (thats the important word here - many people can pull off a one-off fluke win @ X tournament) get into the top 8/4/final etc etc. Then you'll be spotted.
Bonus pool is fine because it inflates EVERYONE's points at the same rate. Sure 2k back a few months ago was top of the league, but now its 3k, you basically go by that and your world ranking rather than just your points alone.
I started out in gold or so, who knows what rank, now top 2000 so I'd say I came a long way overall, but I wouldn't think I'm anywhere near ready to go pro because of it lol.
It is fine, but now when people see themselves at 2k they think omg im awesome when quite clearly they're actually really crap.
There is a thread about this at least once a week. Can we get somebody to make a Liquipedia thread about this?
Also, there isn't a secret to becoming pro. You just play a shitload and win tournaments. If you're good enough, you get noticed. If not, you're wasting a shitload of time.
Enter every tournament; place well and the teams/guilds/clans will come to you. Lots of people throw around the word "pro" a lot. Even Artosis and Tasteless do it. They were never professional Starcraft players, ok? They are Amateurs. However; they are as close as we get to professional casters, but they still treat it like a hobby. Now, that I got that aside across. You aren't a professional unless you can make a living off of it and in many circumstances live in a pro gaming house (not all professionals make their bread and butter off it, but they get accommodations and food -- all the bare necessities).
You have a long way to go. So my advice to you is to enter lots of tournaments and do well in them. That way managers start hearing your name more and perhaps they might give you a tryout or come to you. Usually it doesn't work the other way around, but you can still try to get a hold of them either way. You need results though.
I just hit top 200 this week with no RTS experience whatsoever, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. You don't know shit yet... the amount these pros have garnered in "mechanics" and "strategy" is stupid hard. What your doing at this point is executing a certain build against people who are executing their certain build worse then you.
I was doing fine playing ladder all day executing my build and beating people and then I joined a clan with ICCUP folk, this is when i started learning what the fuck mechanics actually meant. It's not just how quickly you execute your build but the timings and why you execute your build in that certain situation. If you truly truly want to learn your gonna have to eat sleep and breathe starcraft 2 to catch up, your at such a disadvantage just because you don't comprehend the sheer difficulty of the task.
Basically at this point you went on a summer hike and half way through you aspired to climb Everest and then proceeded to talk to people who've done amateur climbing.
That being said do what you want just please do your best, once you've hit that level of understanding and still want to tackle your Everest fuck everyone else and do it.
the way to become a pro is to be good enough and to win and get results. That's how it is.
You don't move to South Korea before you are good enough.
Climb ladder. Get top 200. Join Tournaments. Get far. Win a few. Get approached by a small team / sponsor. Go for Local LANs. Get results like PainUser did. A big sponsor approaches. Go for overseas LANs. Get good results. Go to South Korea, Get code A. Get code S. Then you will be Idra's level.
For what its worth though, i know plenty of people who has no RTS background and got into 2000+ diamond just since release ( thats about 4 months?)
I admire your dedication, but I really think you should just concentrate on high school. Actually, I'm right around your MMR/points on the ladder, and I also play Zerg. But I see playing SC as a complement to my real life. I'm in graduate school right now (law) and I think it's nice to play to maintain the work/fun balance in my life. I don't have any illusions about going pro, however. I haven't even attempted to join a tournament.
But I would also encourage you, if you're 100% dead-set on it, give it a shot. Just don't sacrifice your studies entirely to do so. Only play as much as you can while still maintaining the grades to have a back-up plan.
Unless you're at least in the top 500 in your region, you shouldn't even think about throwing away your education for this. One might go with the idea that you can't become good enough unless you give ALL your time to the game, but really, if you're dedicated you can probably get to top 500 if you play a LOT in your free time and you're determined to get good.
On December 11 2010 01:26 Offhand wrote: I wonder how many people will actually drop their college plans due to points inflation in diamond. Seems kinda obvious and stupid to me.
Haha? You are seriously going to blame point inflation? Somebody who would drop his college plans because he got tricked by point inlation doesn't belong in college.
Seriously. Some people use everything to prove their narrow-minded ideas.
On December 11 2010 01:51 Tobberoth wrote: Unless you're at least in the top 500 in your region, you shouldn't even think about throwing away your education for this. One might go with the idea that you can't become good enough unless you give ALL your time to the game, but really, if you're dedicated you can probably get to top 500 if you play a LOT in your free time and you're determined to get good.
Yeah more like top 100. Top 200 isn't even good players.
Well first get a dartboard. Type and print out multiple team names (eg. Liquid, ROOT, mouz etc....) Now tack the printed names to the board blind fold throw the Darts until you land on a team. Now go to Blizzards website change your name the team name. Now one important part i left out was to make sure you have an awesome name that people will remember. Mission complete.
But on a more serious note if your only top 4000 and you have been playing for eight months you need to get serious. Your saying you want to make this a career so i'm going to be straight with you. Your not good enough. Dont waste your time trying to be serious unless your willing to throw your RL social life away. I mean leave barley enough time to do homework when you get home so you dont get kicked our of school. Spend at least 4-6 hours a day playing nothing but Starcraft then spend the other 18 hours of the day sleeping/thinking of NEW starcraft strategies. If your not willing to put in that amount of effort based on the amount of time you have played (8 months) and your ranking (Top 4000) I can hardly see you being top 200 within the next 4 years.
I'm going to guess thats since your in Jr High your probably lazy ( Like most of us where) like to play starcraft. When you heard that people make a living off of SC you figured it wouldn't be to difficult put 6 hours a day into starcraft but it would be easy since you like to play video games so much. I wouldn't say grow up. But don't think about living off of starcraft for your life. Worry about school and what you will do. Just enjoy playing Starcraft because only 1% of SC players go on to be pros.
On December 11 2010 01:51 Tobberoth wrote: Unless you're at least in the top 500 in your region, you shouldn't even think about throwing away your education for this. One might go with the idea that you can't become good enough unless you give ALL your time to the game, but really, if you're dedicated you can probably get to top 500 if you play a LOT in your free time and you're determined to get good.
Yeah more like top 100. Top 200 isn't even good players.
Of course they're good, what the hell are you talking about? He just wants to get to the highest tier of good, which depends mostly on him -- how much dedication and talent he has.
On December 10 2010 13:58 Idmaif wrote: ok, i know this sounds crazy to a ton of people, but i am halfway through my Jr year in highschool, and im working on getting good enough to be able to become pro right after highschool. and i know there are going to be tons of people who say "dont do it! its too risky!" or "your wasting your life" but this is what i am dedicated to do.
let me start off by saying how good i actually am right now. so i have been playing for about 8 months, (since beta) and i have improved from pretty low bronze newbie to pretty high diamond because i am a very fast learner. but if i made that much of an improvement in 8 months, another year and half will get me a lot higher. so i am constantly working my way up to get closer to the top 200 where a few of my friends are. here is my profile http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/339086/1/iDreamadroid/ so i am not the best in the world yet, but probly around rank 4000 in the US. and of course i will work my way up.
so how do people actually start to make a living off of it? do you have to move to korea like IdrA and just find every little tournament plus GSL? cant you join a clan and get sponsored or something?
i am just a little unfamiliar of the whole process of how this works. so any productive responses are appreciated, just try to leave out the criticism. but i know that Team Liquid is awesome enough to have less trolls than any other forum.
also maybe remember the name iDreamadroid for future years ;D everyone starts somewhere
My advice (jumping on the bandwagon): stay in school and get your degree in something that will give you a stable job in the future, God only knows what the economy is going to be like here in the U.S. in 10 - 15 years.
On a serious note, I doubt you have the capabilities to be a progamer if you played 8 months (since Beta) and are now ~2000pts and rank 4k US. My only RTS experience before SC2 was a bit of BW when I was a kid (gogo moneymaps 1 base mass carrier!) but I played 1v1 for only 3 months on and off to get to where you were (my points are lower now since I have a bunch of bonus piled up), and I'm not very skilled at all.
The field of cognitive psychology has studied expert performance for many, many years and the answer is... lots and lots of practice: to the tune of 16,000 hours of DELIBERATE PRACTICE for gifted musicians (that is why starting early in life is so key). By deliberate practice, I mean exercizing your mental faculties beyond rote memorization of build orders, etc.
The more you look at expert SC2 players, to more you begin to notice all those little things that they do that make all the difference. Expertise is very "domain specific", meaning that being an expert in SC2 will not necessarily translate to Warcraft, etc. Despite the domain-specific nature of expertise, there are some general components that distinguish novices from experts, such as: - the organization of their knowledge - reasoning strategies - pattern-recognition capabilities - meta-cognitive abilities (i.e. game-sense, etc.).
Individuals’ domain knowledge may be one important determinant of whether you truly are an expert. Experts with highly competent performance have easy and fast access to relevant information and are able to view problem situations in qualitatively distinct ways. Expertise studies have “suggested that the superior performance of experts can be explained in terms of their better- organized, superior domain knowledge” In a classic study in cognitive psych, for example, expert chess players showed substantially better recall for chess position than novices, indicating the number of familiar patterns of pieces held in memory by chess experts are much larger than novices; they have a phenomenal representation of the problem space. The knowledge base of experts also includes an extensive store of representations that can be used in solving problems, actions that can be taken in the solution process, and a variety of other components. Experts generally sort and characterize problems according to basic representations and methods relevant to solving them, whereas novices sort them in terms of surface features that often do not cue the representations that are effective for solving them. In addition, experts have been found to generate a complex representation of the encountered situation, where information about the context is integrated with knowledge to allow selection, evaluation, checking, and reasoning about alternative actions.
Well first of all I have to say that I am sorry but I agree with the many that your points and stats dont look like you were above average. But I guess you could possibly get good enough if you really worked on it hard as others said;). I would nonetheless finish school cause IF it doesnt work out well then you at least have a backup;).
my heart goes out to you, im not a pro so this might be wrong but i think you should just try to play the effing F out the game online & TL opens & going to tournys ((mlg etc)) to watch not to play watch the pros play & if you train & not give up youll get there, sjow ((i think hes new to sc & he played in dream hack)) gl man
I have been in the upper SC scene for nearly 10 years. I have watched players rise and fall during that time.
Idra - I knew Idra on west many years ago when he was switching back and forth between terran and zerg in a small team named [S.SenCe] At the time he was an alright player. Nothing very special maybe C level on iccup. But. He had a drive. A desire to want to be at the top. Over the years this passion and desire is what got him to where he went. It was through sheer will power and countless hours of practice that got him to where he went.
TT1 - This is one of the oldest people I know in SC. TT1 has been playing since near the beginning. I met him through a friend on the USWest server. Great guy, showed me around to all the different korean channels and where to find good players to versus. I asked TT1 to go on other servers to practice but he was dedicated to staying on the USWest to play against the gosu koreans. Many years later I found out that he got really good. Just like Idra it was practice and dedication.
I can go through countless others. Ret/FA and many other great sc players.
With exception to Ret everyone that I have known that made it to the top did it through willpower and consistency. If you really have the true drive to make it to the top then you will but do not lie to yourself and think you do. You have to believe it.
I think it's a bad idea to work towards being a pro only in SC2. Your goal should be to become pro in all aspects of your life. As many people have pointed out, there's probably only 1-5 people in all of the Americas who are paid to play full-time. Plus a few more "of us" living in Korea. So there really isn't a guidebook about how to become pro yet. Almost all modern pros that get paid part-time either won something big like a top-tier national tournament (either BW or SC2) or were lucky to have connections with a venture capitalist.
So it's tough. But if you aim at being pro in life, and treat stuff like school, jobs, and relationships as seriously as you take SC2, you cannot fail.
On December 11 2010 04:04 Sanasante wrote: I have been in the upper SC scene for nearly 10 years. I have watched players rise and fall during that time.
Idra - I knew Idra on west many years ago when he was switching back and forth between terran and zerg in a small team named [S.SenCe] At the time he was an alright player. Nothing very special maybe C level on iccup. But. He had a drive. A desire to want to be at the top. Over the years this passion and desire is what got him to where he went. It was through sheer will power and countless hours of practice that got him to where he went.
TT1 - This is one of the oldest people I know in SC. TT1 has been playing since near the beginning. I met him through a friend on the USWest server. Great guy, showed me around to all the different korean channels and where to find good players to versus. I asked TT1 to go on other servers to practice but he was dedicated to staying on the USWest to play against the gosu koreans. Many years later I found out that he got really good. Just like Idra it was practice and dedication.
I can go through countless others. Ret/FA and many other great sc players.
With exception to Ret everyone that I have known that made it to the top did it through willpower and consistency. If you really have the true drive to make it to the top then you will but do not lie to yourself and think you do. You have to believe it.
On December 10 2010 13:58 Idmaif wrote: ok, i know this sounds crazy to a ton of people, but i am halfway through my Jr year in highschool, and im working on getting good enough to be able to become pro right after highschool. and i know there are going to be tons of people who say "dont do it! its too risky!" or "your wasting your life" but this is what i am dedicated to do.
let me start off by saying how good i actually am right now. so i have been playing for about 8 months, (since beta) and i have improved from pretty low bronze newbie to pretty high diamond because i am a very fast learner. but if i made that much of an improvement in 8 months, another year and half will get me a lot higher. so i am constantly working my way up to get closer to the top 200 where a few of my friends are. here is my profile http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/339086/1/iDreamadroid/ so i am not the best in the world yet, but probly around rank 4000 in the US. and of course i will work my way up.
so how do people actually start to make a living off of it? do you have to move to korea like IdrA and just find every little tournament plus GSL? cant you join a clan and get sponsored or something?
i am just a little unfamiliar of the whole process of how this works. so any productive responses are appreciated, just try to leave out the criticism. but i know that Team Liquid is awesome enough to have less trolls than any other forum.
also maybe remember the name iDreamadroid for future years ;D everyone starts somewhere
Oh dear god.
How does one become "pro"? The same as with anything else: make a living off of it. You are not "pro" if you're really good; you're "pro" if you get paid to do it and can live off of it. If you make money, but it merely augments your income, you're "semi-professional." Otherwise, you do it for fun or don't get paid, and therefore are an "amateur."
Honestly, if you want to become a professional gamer, go for it. Frankly, after high school would be the perfect time to do it if you're going to do it. However, you should be honest with yourself. Just because you really want to do it doesn't mean you'll make it.
I'm not going to step on your dreams, nor am I going to coddle you. Do it if you want. Have realistic expectations. If you don't try, you'll never know, and you'll always wonder what could've happened.
Have a back up plan. This is probably going to a university and attempting to do something more typical with your life.
On December 11 2010 04:04 Sanasante wrote: I have been in the upper SC scene for nearly 10 years. I have watched players rise and fall during that time.
Idra - I knew Idra on west many years ago when he was switching back and forth between terran and zerg in a small team named [S.SenCe] At the time he was an alright player. Nothing very special maybe C level on iccup. But. He had a drive. A desire to want to be at the top. Over the years this passion and desire is what got him to where he went. It was through sheer will power and countless hours of practice that got him to where he went.
TT1 - This is one of the oldest people I know in SC. TT1 has been playing since near the beginning. I met him through a friend on the USWest server. Great guy, showed me around to all the different korean channels and where to find good players to versus. I asked TT1 to go on other servers to practice but he was dedicated to staying on the USWest to play against the gosu koreans. Many years later I found out that he got really good. Just like Idra it was practice and dedication.
I can go through countless others. Ret/FA and many other great sc players.
With exception to Ret everyone that I have known that made it to the top did it through willpower and consistency. If you really have the true drive to make it to the top then you will but do not lie to yourself and think you do. You have to believe it.
I don't get why people always come with these drastic plans or ideas. It's not that hard to combine becoming good at SC2 with your school or work until you are at the point of trying to win GSL. If you have talent for this game and put in your hours post-school you will still become good enough to win $100 open tournaments and such to get noticed by the community and teams. That is how most of the top players start off and there is no reason to take a different approach.
Just play SC2, join some tournaments, do well, the rest will come later.
I don't get why people always come with these drastic plans or ideas. It's not that hard to combine becoming good at SC2 with your school or work until you are at the point of trying to win GSL. If you have talent for this game and put in your hours post-school you will still become good enough to win $100 open tournaments and such to get noticed by the community and teams. That is how most of the top players start off and there is no reason to take a different approach.
Just play SC2, join some tournaments, do well, the rest will come later
This is exactly what you should do, you can become very good at starcraft and win some tournaments. If you get noticed and a chance to be a progamer then take it, if you don't get recognised or you aren't good enough. You won't get that chance and you can just go back to your education you've been working on in the meantime.
On December 11 2010 04:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't get why people always come with these drastic plans or ideas. It's not that hard to combine becoming good at SC2 with your school or work until you are at the point of trying to win GSL. If you have talent for this game and put in your hours post-school you will still become good enough to win $100 open tournaments and such to get noticed by the community and teams. That is how most of the top players start off and there is no reason to take a different approach.
Just play SC2, join some tournaments, do well, the rest will come later.
I'm going to be a little more optimistic than some people in this thread...
Becoming a "pro" in SC2 means you make a living off of it. Unlike, say, a professional basketball player, there's no established path to becoming a pro in SC2. A pro in SC2 makes their money pretty much through sponsorships, which means you'd have to make it onto a team. In the United States, you don't really "apply," or at least not to my knowledge. Instead, you have to perform well and then you may eventually get picked up by a team.
"Performing well" doesn't just mean being ranked highly on the ladder. You could be #1 on the ladder and you wouldn't be getting any team offers. Instead, you have to do well in tournaments. Probably the easiest way to get into the tournament scene would be to start with online tournaments, since you don't have to travel for them. However, eventually you're going to have to start making it to LANs, such as MLG. To do this, you're likely going to have to travel, and travel can get expensive since you'll be paying for it out of pocket.
Then, assuming you do exceptionally well in the tournament scene, you might be noticed and get an offer to join a team.
To get to that point, though, you need to practice. You can't just ladder a lot. Even if you're just laddering, you need to make a very serious and deliberate effort to get better, not just play a lot of games. Be on the lookout for practice partners that you can play with on a regular basis that can help you train.
Since you're currently a junior in high school, you're actually in a surprisingly good spot if you plan to try to make it professionally in SC2. Even if you have a busy schedule now, you likely have a decent amount of free time every night to play. But to actually train, you might have to give up some things that you don't want to give up. You almost certainly cannot get to a professional level by balancing 7 hours of classes, homework, SC2, AND a social life. There's just not enough time to train. When you get home from school, you're going to have to do your homework right away and then immediately start playing SC2. Very rarely will you have time for socialization or other extra curriculars, and this can have negative impacts on your friends and relationships.
If you seriously want to become a pro after high school, I would recommend practicing hard NOW, but don't expect to make it pro right when you leave high school. When you graduate, take a year off (before going to college or getting a job) and spend that time training very hard. I'm talking 8 hours a day of deliberate practice (not watching VODs, reading build-orders, chatting about the game) per day. If you can practice that hard for months on end with no other commitments, then at the very least you'll be putting in the WORK needed to become pro. After that, it's just a matter of skill and luck.
Good luck! As long as you're doing what you have a passion for, you can't really go wrong.
P.S. - Remember...whenever you're serious about doing something, the time you need to do it the most are the times you don't want to do it. At some point in your playing you're going to get tired with the game and want to put it down for a while, or want to skip practicing for a bit to relax or do something "fun." You can take a short break if you want, but it's very important to get right back to it as soon as possible. Taking extended breaks has a way of adding up over time. Think of it like a job...sometimes you get really tired of it, but you still have to do it every day.
I hear Idra is giving coaching for 150$ an hour, LOL.
Anyway yeah, finish your education first, Sc2 is not hard, not hard at all to become good at, just need a good computer, and more thinking than playing in my opinion.
First: There is almost no way you will ever make decent money from playing starcraft... so if its about the money at all, which it is for you because your talking about being a pro because your a junior in highschool and scared that you don't know what to do, you have almost no chance. With starcraft you have to put in about 10x the effort for often no pay or 1/100th the pay of a normal job if you get really close.
Second: Even if you do put all the hours in that everyone else has told you to... thinking that if you want something bad enough you can have it... you might, MIGHT, get close... however nearly everyone that close puts in hours you prolly can't without getting kicked out of your house... and what matters at that point... is talent. If you can seriously think you have what it takes after having no indication that you are good whatsoever, you should probably start by finding that indication.
I really do not think you have any reasonable chance of this goal... I don't think I even have a reasonable chance and getting the top 200 was a breeze for me.. but as said before the first 80% is mad easy its the last 20% thats insane.
On December 11 2010 04:54 Almin wrote: I hear Idra is giving coaching for 150$ an hour, LOL.
Anyway yeah, finish your education first, Sc2 is not hard, not hard at all to become good at, just need a good computer, and more thinking than playing in my opinion.
It depends on what you mean by good, good enough to make a living off playing SC2 competitively is retardedly hard.
On December 11 2010 04:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't get why people always come with these drastic plans or ideas. It's not that hard to combine becoming good at SC2 with your school or work until you are at the point of trying to win GSL. If you have talent for this game and put in your hours post-school you will still become good enough to win $100 open tournaments and such to get noticed by the community and teams. That is how most of the top players start off and there is no reason to take a different approach.
Just play SC2, join some tournaments, do well, the rest will come later.
This is good, practical advice.
One step at a time, and you'll be fine.
Didn't meant to get into all the 'big picture, do what you love' stuff, but that's the old guy in me being nostalgic.
On December 11 2010 04:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't get why people always come with these drastic plans or ideas. It's not that hard to combine becoming good at SC2 with your school or work until you are at the point of trying to win GSL. If you have talent for this game and put in your hours post-school you will still become good enough to win $100 open tournaments and such to get noticed by the community and teams. That is how most of the top players start off and there is no reason to take a different approach.
Just play SC2, join some tournaments, do well, the rest will come later.
Sounds like the most reasonable advice on here. You don't have to put everything else on the backburner to work towards being a pro. Don't let your schoolwork and other life aspects slip until you have really proven to yourself that you can make it (such as by winning a lot of small tourneys etc.).
Even then, as most have pointed out, most "pros" have other sources of income. Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is the age factor..maybe most people don't like to think about that . But even if you go "pro" there will come a day when your reflexes are too slow to keep paying the bills and you will be glad that you got your education and have something to fall back on.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
Ignore this. Stay in school. If you can't get to the top 200 of the ladder while in school, then you can't make money with SC2 if you dropped out.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: i'll be realistic here. you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age. This was the case for Flash, one of the dominant player in SC history. He started when he was 15, and big portion of his time went to practices.
If your motivated to succeed in e-sports, i recommend having your priorities changed. Gaming would have to be your first not school, and by all means, this doesnt mean you must drop out. But rather, you have to understand that doing good in school is not what you would be expecting, given that you are motivated to succeed in gaming.
So my point is, set your priorities. How are you going to spend you time?
Ignore this. Stay in school. If you can't get to the top 200 of the ladder while in school, then you can't make money with SC2 if you dropped out.
Thats not true buuuut stay in school. Honestly the best thing you can do is do well in school and get into a good school and make some contacts. Then no matter what you do you'll succeed in life. Almost every single Pro first person shooter i can think of was ranked top in the world while still doing college(some took a break from college and did it in the off season and such). Theres always exceptions like i think maybe fatality. And it sounds like the same way with Star Craft.
Theres no reason why you cant do well in school (grade school/highchool) and still make it to the top in Starcraft(i slept through every class and did most projects in the class before the class it was due and still managed a 70 average(that was also with getting a 50 in english for my friend plagiarizing part of the final project worth 25% of our mark from freeessays.com....). Being that young and already deciding what you want to do is great. That means you have sooooo many years to go pro compared to someone like me whos 22. And if you don't end up making it you'll beable to get a good job and run your own team like jason lake did with complexity.(owned a real estate firm, decided to fund a counter strike team and is now 1 of the largest north american pro gaming teams and then sold his firm) So you can always be apart of the scene if some way if you want to.
Not to mention your young, i thought i wanted to be a programmer when i was 15 til i got to college and hated the people and the tedium and am now doing something different so no risking your future for something you may not want to do 5 yrs down the road by dropping out of school
Try as hard as you want, but don't make any real sacrifices like getting terrible grades or dropping out of school. Remember you've been playing this game for 8 months, a lot of the pros have been playing for 10 years... honestly unless you really think you are some kind of sc prodigy I wouldn't give it too much thought. Play because it's fun, not because you want to be a pro. But like someone else said, you can't just play a ton of games you really have to THINK about the game and study it.
On December 11 2010 04:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't get why people always come with these drastic plans or ideas. It's not that hard to combine becoming good at SC2 with your school or work until you are at the point of trying to win GSL. If you have talent for this game and put in your hours post-school you will still become good enough to win $100 open tournaments and such to get noticed by the community and teams. That is how most of the top players start off and there is no reason to take a different approach.
Just play SC2, join some tournaments, do well, the rest will come later.
Look at Gretorp. The guy works a full time job and he still has his name in the "pro starcraft 2 players" book. You're definitely right about people saying they can't achieve a status because they don'/can't play as much. I have like 200 something ladder games, but I somehow happen to crush some 800 game players with ease. You have to really study the game and not just play it.
To the OP, you say you will be a lot better in another year and a half, but guess who else will be better? The pros, and all the other people wanting to become a "pro" and get their name in the spot light.
If you want to get noticed to play in top tournaments or something, laddering hardcore and staying in the high points list would definitely help, kinda like what select did. but laddering wont exactly get you up there. streaming is a good way to get recognized, and basically just playing in online tournaments, and LAN ones. the TL SC2 opens every week are a good idea to. If you can get far in those then you know you will be on a stream with a few thousand viewers. Which is right because, select won what? the first two opens? that and having a top spot on the ladder got him noticed. then, he got far in MLG. you really have to dedicate your time on this.
Getting a practice partner and talking with him after each game helps SO much, and I know you've heard that a lot of times, but it works, especially if you talk on vent or whatever.
-And to school, I don't think you should drop out. If you're really serious about this and you know you won't regret in the future...at least get a GED. I'm in high school as well right now, a senior, and I honestly sleep in EVERY single one of my classes, but im passing 3 of them(out of 4), and i don't study or put work into it. I honestly think you should just stay. High school is sooooooo easy(at least it was for me). And then this redirects to what I said and Nazgul said about having time. Just look at gretorp, not only does he have a job, but he can't "sleep in class" or anything, and he has to get a good rest at night.
On December 11 2010 07:44 OutlaW- wrote: Nony says he practices 4~ hours per day. That's low. You just have to be effective in practicing, not just mass gaming.
This is also a good motivator, I myself would def say I do this.
good luck, and remember, there are thousands of people who want to become a pro like you SC2 is a new game and you have a chance, there are people coming and going like flies
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age.
Ok first of all go to college. Qxc and Day9 both going to college and have plenty of time to play games at very high levels and be active members in the sc2 community. The reason I say this is most pro gamers do not make a lot of money. Prize money from tournaments, sponsors and coaching is your source of income. Don't do it, go to college and work towards getting a long lasting career. You dont see 40 year old sc2 gamers for a reason. In the mean time keep improving playing tournaments and getting better because that is just fun and awesome. Do not make it your life focus like compscidude suggests. Instead go study computer science at a college and design your own awsome rts game.
On December 11 2010 04:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I don't get why people always come with these drastic plans or ideas. It's not that hard to combine becoming good at SC2 with your school or work until you are at the point of trying to win GSL. If you have talent for this game and put in your hours post-school you will still become good enough to win $100 open tournaments and such to get noticed by the community and teams. That is how most of the top players start off and there is no reason to take a different approach.
Just play SC2, join some tournaments, do well, the rest will come later.
i realy have no idea how to get pro in sc2, but i did play cs for 8 years and i know alittle bit about it, first... bitches better recognize, play in tournies and ladder much and try to get a alittle famous in your town perhaps? just try to get to the top, play ladder, tourney and join every tourny possible ! and you will get there i have faith in you
I wouldn't suggest it. Almost every pro player (and for that matter, EVERY pro player that actually makes money) has had extensive experience with SC1 or W3. In this sense, you are a decade behind and there is just too much for you to catch up on.
I would highly suggest getting an education. Attempting to become pro this late in the game will prove to be a fatal blow to your financial stability.
Go to college after high school while playing SC2. You want to have a backup plan obviously, so you won't regret it. I have no control on your life, but it is a risky plan to go pro in any game. It is doable to go to school while playing SC2 competitively since players like qxc do it and possibly some others.
Wow 8 months and 2000 points isn't all that impressive mate, if you want to become a pro gamer you definitely NEED to start playing more. I started a month after Sc2 came out and I'm at 2350~! being a pro gamer requires a LOT of dedication and you need to be able to play for 10 + hours EVERYDAY for practice. Look at Huk for example i have been watching him play for a while on his stream and he plays like 12 hours a day? you NEED to dedicate all your time to gaming! think about it .
P.S: Don't ruin your life doing something you will regret, you need to be SURE that you have what it takes to become a pro gamer! if not then your going to realize you made a BIG mistake and you threw away your education for nothing.
On December 11 2010 08:58 PaPoolee wrote: pro gamer requires a LOT of dedication and you need to be able to play for 10 + hours EVERYDAY for practice..
Terrible advice. Even Idra has said that ten hours a day was excessive. It's quite possible to be a very good gamer and decent student at the same time, qxc is a good example.
You really need to put things into perspective. What kind of a life do you want for yourself? Is family important? Is money important? Whats important? In my opinion it is very difficult for someone to have a family and be financially successful as a pro gamer. I've been there. I was a pro FPS gamer and it was very difficult on my personal life. Eventually, I had to decide that it wasn't worth it. I'm a lot happier now that I don't live the pro gamer lifestyle of 10+ hours gameplay on a weekday and literally 14+ on the weekends. I have also found hobbies that are exponentially more entertaining than gaming. Remember that those hours spent gaming are also not going to be actually playing the game. You will be WORKING.. you and your practice partner will be disecting every aspect of the game. It can actually turn into something not so fun. When I was no longer "pro", I actually took a two year break from video games.
You need to participate in tounaments as much as you can and gain recognition with high placements or wins. Getting involved in the community and becoming a familiar name will definitely open up doors since there's a good amount of networking. Assuming you're not rich, you'll eventually need to find a team or company to sponsor you which makes networking even more important. It's a rough road that will honestly depend a lot on luck so you might want to reconsider doing this...
I had the same question i asked some real pros in mirc channel on quakenet they told me to join online tournaments where i would see where my lvl is at. Real pros are in tournaments so you get to play them if you get matched up/advance so its prob the best thing to do. Be active in tournaments and see where your lvl is at and try to improve it. You might even get some good frends at your lvl u can prac with so go for it
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age.
Ok first of all go to college. Qxc and Day9 both going to college and have plenty of time to play games at very high levels and be active members in the sc2 community. The reason I say this is most pro gamers do not make a lot of money. Prize money from tournaments, sponsors and coaching is your source of income. Don't do it, go to college and work towards getting a long lasting career. You dont see 40 year old sc2 gamers for a reason. In the mean time keep improving playing tournaments and getting better because that is just fun and awesome. Do not make it your life focus like compscidude suggests. Instead go study computer science at a college and design your own awsome rts game.
at the same time you have to consider that unless u take some easy mode major the games will most definitely cut into your grades and/or social life. I think if you really want to be a pro, taking a year off(if your parents support you and can afford it) between highschool and college might be the way to go.
If I was your mom and you told me you wanted to skip college and be a progamer, I'd beat you senseless. Honestly if you never played BW your chances of actually getting to professional level are slim to none. Those guys just have years of practice and experience that you'll never have.
Edit: But I do want to add that if you do go to college, you can join your school's CSL team. I'm on the team for the school I go to and we have tons of fun hanging out playing starcraft and of course playing against other schools. The beauty of CSL is that the people you're playing against are also busy students who don't have a ton of free time to practice. Both qxc and Liquid'Tyler play in it, though I don't think Tyler came over for the new SC2 season this year.
The best ways to go pro are to join good tournaments and win. This will get you noticed and people will be like "oh man this guy nobody heard of beat (insert well known sc2 player here) at the finals of (insert important tournament name)". After youve demonstrated you are highly skilled teams will probably try to pick you up. Get on a good team that plays in alot of tournaments. Teams want good players and to do well to pick up sponsors and prize money. If you demonstrate strong play and crush everyone else, these teams will pick you up because winning picks up sponsors, sponsors bring in money, money keeps the whole ball rolling.
With that said, the odds of you becoming a pro are slim. There are alot of great players out there and you need to be even better. practice your ass off, and play hard. You cant play just for fun you have to sit down and just pound away game after game after game. Im pretty sure ret or IdrA or NoNy (I cant remember which) had a blog on here about life for a korean pro gamer in starcraft 1 and its not very glamourous in my eyes. But to each his own...
you gotta show people how good you are in tournaments, not ladder. ladder rankings separate the good players from the bad players, and the really good players from the good players. to become a pro (making a living off of it) you better be the mother fucking best because opportunities are hard to come by
On December 10 2010 14:02 Socke wrote: the problem is that most of the really good guys have been playing rts competitively for many years.. its really hard to catch up to that being new to rts. best way to get better is to be focused on improving while grinding many many games. then do well in tournaments and get sponsorship
/thread.
And that was actually the 3rd reply or so. Why do you keep talking?
If you got a lot of time on your hands, just start laddering like a madman. 400 games since release isn't really much tbh. Try to play at least 20-30 games every day for one month and see how much you can improve by then and post the results here including your latest reps. I'm sure some people here will be able to tell you if you have the potential to go pro.
Edit: I'm not kidding, you should really do this. It is the quickest way to tell you if you've potential or not. Furthermore you will see if you have the dedication it takes to be a pro. 20-30games per day is close to nothing when you're a pro. Of course you also have to watch a lot of reps, try to develop effective strategies on your own, analyze a lot of stuff, etc. In short, take one month and just give it all you got. Put everything you have into Starcraft. I'm pretty sure afterwards you will know whether you even want to become a pro and if you got what it takes.
On December 10 2010 14:02 Socke wrote: the problem is that most of the really good guys have been playing rts competitively for many years.. its really hard to catch up to that being new to rts. best way to get better is to be focused on improving while grinding many many games. then do well in tournaments and get sponsorship
/thread.
And that was actually the 3rd reply or so. Why do you keep talking?
well there are numerous other possibilities, like we're just thinking maybe the key to being a pro is to be a giant asshole
The only best answer I could give you is LAN take top5 and im pretty sure you will be get notice. Perfect example of this will be MLG where you will be facing all top SC2 players.
On December 10 2010 14:05 compscidude wrote: you will have a greater chance if you stop school and play games from a younger age.
Ok first of all go to college. Qxc and Day9 both going to college and have plenty of time to play games at very high levels and be active members in the sc2 community. The reason I say this is most pro gamers do not make a lot of money. Prize money from tournaments, sponsors and coaching is your source of income. Don't do it, go to college and work towards getting a long lasting career. You dont see 40 year old sc2 gamers for a reason. In the mean time keep improving playing tournaments and getting better because that is just fun and awesome. Do not make it your life focus like compscidude suggests. Instead go study computer science at a college and design your own awsome rts game.
Day[9] and Qxc both went to Harvey Mudd too. That shit does not stink. You can definately accel in school and starcraft as those two have proved.
It seems to me there's many misleading tips in this thread. Going pro is not a decision one makes; it's more a situation one finds oneself in. The thought process is NOT: "Hey, I'm a diamond Protoss, I'm going to skip school, give up on a normal career, because the idea of being a pro player appeals to me." It's more like, "Hey, I've been top 10 on the NA ladder for a while, and have won $500 in tournament prizes this past month, maybe I should start lookin for sponsorships and take this (even) more serious." (Nothing person here, just being realistic.)
Reading OPs like these made me want to punch babies. > : You came off sounding like a immature overly eager young boy. Sorry. but you really need to carefully reword ur posts next time.
That depends on what you call a "progamer". Do you want to be in a team playing in tournaments while you are still in college pursuing a traditional career? Entirely reasonable, just keep practicing and improving. Do you want to make progaming your career and focus on making a living off esports alone? Much more difficult. Only a few non-Koreans in the world are able to achieve this and even then the money is less than stellar. If you are really serious about making a career out of starcraft I'd finish high school then find a means to support yourself while you focus on Starcraft. Get yourself known on the ladder and in local tournaments. Join a team, start competing in bigger tournaments. Find the money to either move to korea yourself or be part of a team based in korea. Seems to be the basic outline of what you are talking about.
You will never be a pro gamer. Going from never played an RTS to a top 4k( only in the US......) in 7 months is not even remotely impressive from a pro gamer standpoint. Not saying anyone could do that....but that doesn't mean you are pro material. I came from never having touched an RTS...ever. Didn't even play the campaign. And placed platinum...and climbed for a while before I just didn't have time any more. But lets assume you play, work extra hard, and make top 5.....That would be a ridiculous goal to try and meet..... think about it, a top 5 player in the whole country...full of people like you who want to go pro at a video game. But all that would still mean NOTHING as far as going pro is concerned. Top US SC2 ladder player means NOTHING. You have to win a bunch of tournaments to get recognized, and even then.....top US players just don't make enough to go pro. You need a backup plan, and Korea isn't it. There are just too many ridiculously good players NOW over there. And they're only going to get better. Put in another way, I'd say top 5 ladder over here compares to gold as the real SC2 pros compare to that top 5 ladder player. I watch top 200 ladder players like mini, destiny, qxc, etc and think they are ok, but then I watch professional games, and its just a league or two above even them.
In short, get a real job. Hate to be a dream crusher....but don't throw your life away for something that basically has no real positives to it even if you were to make it to the pro level. At that level, its not a game you play for fun, its a job.
Edit: All that being said.....man, just put your 100% into it. Be the best you can be at it. If you really are pro material, and studying and analyzing games is what makes you click, then go for it. JUST DON'T GIVE UP THE REST OF YOUR LIFE ON THAT GAMBLE. Make top 5 ladder in the US, win some LANs, make money on the side giving lessons. Just have a real job too.
On December 11 2010 17:05 tdt wrote: You really think you can just practice and be pro?
Why stop with PC gaming then?
Pro football pays better.
lol, that logic doesn't even make sense. you can practice all you want and you still won't cut it in the pro football level. going pro in gaming is easier when you compare eSports to sports.
I think if it's your passion and you love SC, then fuck what everyone says about your rank, your playing time, your experience etc.
Do what you love. There are no guarantees but if everyone just sat around trying to take the safest route in life, well, it'd be a pretty boring world.
THOUGH, I'd definitely recommend finishing HS. HS isn't really much work anyways...maybe an hour a week of HW and then study a lot for exams.
On December 11 2010 18:01 tdt wrote: Disagree. Some people have a predilection to x and no amount of practice will make you pro. Chess, football, or even pro-gaming.
But, if that's the case and a predilection is what has become the decider for someones capability for becoming pro, then why bother watching esports or even any sports at all? I mean, if its just some kind of predisposition then where's the competition?
If you can be predisposed to be able to become a pro, then can you be predisposed to be the best player in the sport that you play in? Or is the predisposition as simple as a +5 to skill level (racial traits olol) that takes you above the potential skill level that hard work and guts can get you, meaning those people that don't have the disposition box checked will always be five points of skill lower than those lucky enough to be born specially geared towards that which they enjoy.
Meh, doesn't fly with me =(
If its the first option i gave snd predisposition is some kind of exponential potential bonus to skill, then it seems to me that the competitive side of sports is a bit worthless (right now i'm thinking of that runner who completely facerolled the 100m sprint in the olympics; if his genetic difference is really the difference in his ability to run versus other runners, then why bother watching because the match is already decided)
Screw arguments for the second option, I can't really be bothered there but if it were the case that that is how pro-potentiality is decided, then it makes me think 'koreans?' 'nimble fingers?' etc.
Either there are other really obvious options that I ignored or anyone can become pro, if you agree with what I just said.
On December 11 2010 17:05 tdt wrote: You really think you can just practice and be pro?
Why stop with PC gaming then?
Pro football pays better.
lol, that logic doesn't even make sense. you can practice all you want and you still won't cut it in the pro football level. going pro in gaming is easier when you compare eSports to sports.
i really dont think thats true. I dont even think there are as many people in college football as tehre are people who play sc2 in the world. But even if you compare it to soccer-football i still dont think its any easier- while the accessibility of both games is about the same you gotta realize that there are just a lot more paid soccer teams then there are sc2 teams.
On December 10 2010 14:10 Waking wrote: Also, sorry to be a dick but I started playing late in the beta (had never really played an RTS before) and went from low silver to ~2500 diamond in about 7months.
Wow wat? I started a month ago and lost all my placements/didn't know how to play the game and I'm around 2500 diamond now.
I know you're asking for the specific starcraft path to becoming a starcraft pro but I think it doesn't hurt to look at things generally too. According to wikipedia a professional is "1.A professional is a person that is paid for what they do. Qualifications have little to do with being a professional as the world's "oldest profession" is strictly a monetary gain career. An amateur maybe more qualified than a professional but they are not paid, thus they are an amateur." With this definition in mind all you have to do to become a pro starcraft player is to win a money tournament or have someone pay you to couch them.
On December 11 2010 18:01 tdt wrote: Disagree. Some people have a predilection to x and no amount of practice will make you pro. Chess, football, or even pro-gaming.
But, if that's the case and a predilection is what has become the decider for someones capability for becoming pro, then why bother watching esports or even any sports at all? I mean, if its just some kind of predisposition then where's the competition?
If you can be predisposed to be able to become a pro, then can you be predisposed to be the best player in the sport that you play in? Or is the predisposition as simple as a +5 to skill level (racial traits olol) that takes you above the potential skill level that hard work and guts can get you, meaning those people that don't have the disposition box checked will always be five points of skill lower than those lucky enough to be born specially geared towards that which they enjoy.
Meh, doesn't fly with me =(
If its the first option i gave snd predisposition is some kind of exponential potential bonus to skill, then it seems to me that the competitive side of sports is a bit worthless (right now i'm thinking of that runner who completely facerolled the 100m sprint in the olympics; if his genetic difference is really the difference in his ability to run versus other runners, then why bother watching because the match is already decided)
Screw arguments for the second option, I can't really be bothered there but if it were the case that that is how pro-potentiality is decided, then it makes me think 'koreans?' 'nimble fingers?' etc.
Either there are other really obvious options that I ignored or anyone can become pro, if you agree with what I just said.
It's +5/100 rest is training and practice - 95%.
Why we watch is to see who's the best but make no mistake all pros in anything have +5 to skill.
Star-craft has facets like IQ and reaction time which make up that +5% to bump you into pros - which is why you'll never see a woman at the top, they are slower and not as analytical, nothing they can do about it no matter how hard they practice. Nothing a 40 yr old man can do either. Nothing the majority of us can do either.
Make no mistake SC pros are as much athletes as sprinters, football players, chess players whatever. And if you don't have the 5% you'll never be at the top no matter what.
On December 10 2010 14:09 Talin wrote: Don't commit to anything until you know you've got a decent shot at it.
Worst advice in history. Any professional will tell you becoming a pro gamer was a gamble. Taking leaps of faith is what life is about. The very opposite of what you said is true. If you don't try your hardest and push yourself to the limit, you'll never know what you can do, and you'll never achieve anything.
In this thread: Lots of people who are jealous, because they do not have the will to go after what they desire, and therefore feel the need to crush the aspirations of someone who does.
Seriously, what a bunch of thickheaded, asshole comments. I'm really disappointed in TL, right now. It's too big and full of the average internet jerkwad anymore.
Let's go out on a limb and say you win 2 global tournaments at 90k each. Keep in mind that only the biggest superstars in gaming can do this. You'll have about 120k after taxes, optimistically. But on the downside, you'll have no long term earning potential, no health insurance, no credit, and no skills that can land you a long term job you can support a family on.
On December 11 2010 18:01 tdt wrote: Disagree. Some people have a predilection to x and no amount of practice will make you pro. Chess, football, or even pro-gaming.
But, if that's the case and a predilection is what has become the decider for someones capability for becoming pro, then why bother watching esports or even any sports at all? I mean, if its just some kind of predisposition then where's the competition?
If you can be predisposed to be able to become a pro, then can you be predisposed to be the best player in the sport that you play in? Or is the predisposition as simple as a +5 to skill level (racial traits olol) that takes you above the potential skill level that hard work and guts can get you, meaning those people that don't have the disposition box checked will always be five points of skill lower than those lucky enough to be born specially geared towards that which they enjoy.
Meh, doesn't fly with me =(
If its the first option i gave snd predisposition is some kind of exponential potential bonus to skill, then it seems to me that the competitive side of sports is a bit worthless (right now i'm thinking of that runner who completely facerolled the 100m sprint in the olympics; if his genetic difference is really the difference in his ability to run versus other runners, then why bother watching because the match is already decided)
Screw arguments for the second option, I can't really be bothered there but if it were the case that that is how pro-potentiality is decided, then it makes me think 'koreans?' 'nimble fingers?' etc.
Either there are other really obvious options that I ignored or anyone can become pro, if you agree with what I just said.
It's +5/100 rest is training and practice - 95%.
Why we watch is to see who's the best but make no mistake all pros in anything have +5 to skill.
Star-craft has facets like IQ and reaction time which make up that +5% to bump you into pros - which is why you'll never see a woman at the top, they are slower and not as analytical, nothing they can do about it no matter how hard they practice. Nothing a 40 yr old man can do either. Nothing the majority of us can do either.
Make no mistake SC pros are as much athletes as sprinters, football players, chess players whatever. And if you don't have the 5% you'll never be at the top no matter what.
My response to all of that is 'I'm a romantic'.
Hopefully one day a 40 year old woman who is disposed to be both 'analytically' superior and absurdly fast will turn up and rock the sc2 world. She'll have +130%
On December 15 2010 06:15 Uncultured wrote: Worst advice in history. Any professional will tell you becoming a pro gamer was a gamble. Taking leaps of faith is what life is about. The very opposite of what you said is true. If you don't try your hardest and push yourself to the limit, you'll never know what you can do, and you'll never achieve anything.
Despite all that, his point still stands as the most logical thought process. Yeah, taking huge, life-altering risks can get you somewhere. No, it doesn't 99.99% of the time. We just don't hear about the failures.
If he wants to go pro, he can still attend college/get a job/make a future for himself. It's not like SC will pay his bills even if he does become a pro anyways, unless he's top ~20 in the world.
Go to open tournaments, win a bunch of games vs big names, hang out with the pros there (they're always super nice) and ask to practice with them post-tourney.
You should probably secure atleast some form of placement in a team by your senior year or you'll be living on your own for a while with little income.
Some better advice is to get atleast a minor in something you're really good at so if things don't work out you can fall back on a job somewhere while you get your masters.
On December 10 2010 14:09 Talin wrote: Don't commit to anything until you know you've got a decent shot at it.
Worst advice in history. Any professional will tell you becoming a pro gamer was a gamble. Taking leaps of faith is what life is about. The very opposite of what you said is true. If you don't try your hardest and push yourself to the limit, you'll never know what you can do, and you'll never achieve anything.
In this thread: Lots of people who are jealous, because they do not have the will to go after what they desire, and therefore feel the need to crush the aspirations of someone who does.
No, that is extremely sound and reasonable advice. People should make life decisions based on the pro's and con's, and quite frankly, pro-gaming is an unforgiving career. You are either the best, or a nobody. You don't need to take a .. "leap of faith" to know if you are good at starcraft 2. The ladder is an excellent general way to determine this, as is performances in the AMAZING free weekly online tournaments. The OP, after playing from beta, is at a ladder ranking which barely exeeds the points total for the bonus pool, as displayed by his win ratio. Take it slow and steady, and let your results guide your decisions. It does -not- take 8 hours a day of SC2 to reach 2500+ or tournament knockout rounds.
Anyway, to answer the OP:
so how do people actually start to make a living off of it?
Team allowances, personal sponorships, prize pool winnings.
do you have to move to korea like IdrA and just find every little tournament plus GSL?
No, start hitting the top of the ladder and winning regular online tournaments. It only takes one to become well known, such as Nerchio in the last TL open.
cant you join a clan and get sponsored or something?
It works on a case by case basis, some clans come with team sponorships but it doesnt mean that any of the money will go to the players, as things such as admin costs needs to be payed for.
Winning tournaments, winning at LANs, and ranking high on the ladder will be a sure way to become pro. Also, having a livestream with a high viewer count couldn't hurt
Edit: Also, I would implore that, unless you have some sort of other motivation for moving to Korea, you hold off on that idea until you're already a well known professional in the United States (or Europe, wherever you live at the moment).
^ wait really @ tdt. lol were making it a sex thing now? I shouldn't respond because no-one else even cares but thats absurd to even say. "you'll never see a woman at the top, they are slower and not as analytical, nothing they can do about it no matter how hard they practice."
... WOW ...
... thats really all, I actually started typing intending on a well thought out rant but honestly I'm just gonna troll.
REALLY!?!?
Reminds me of when I started playing guitar with the not very lofty goal of being able to shred like kirk hammett (come on I was 13.) This guy at the store told me I'd never be fast cause my fingers are chunky and stubby lol. He told me I could be a good basic guitarist but I'd never do lead. Out of pure obstinance I was shredding a couple of months later and I now play jazz/classical at a decent level. I was going to try to go pro but abandoned it for money reasons. To get back to the OP, I used to think if I didn't go pro then I would just never get what I wanted out of my passion for music. I received some reassurance from an endocrinologist who played pro jazz flute in his spare time and regularly sells out local jazz halls that passion never dies and chances are you'll never stop doing something you love. So whatever happens, you don't need to go pro at something to get real satisfaction from a passion you have that you have worked at. That being said do what your gonna do and never let anyone tell you you can't do it! You may be wrong but chances are you'll figure that out yourself if you are :-)
If you want to go pro, if you want to not only go pro, but be THE best there is, then play 10000 hours of starcraft. No, that's not a number pulled from nowhere, all the great, DOMINATING players in all major sports took approximately this long to become who we know them to be. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, who ever. Because of the wide extent of e-sports, there are bound to be many players that have logged the 10000 hours and, to play as a true pro who lives off playing the game, you'll have to log that too. I wouldn't recommend devoting your live to this, but I'm just a stranger to you, so all I can say is the iconic
On December 11 2010 08:58 PaPoolee wrote: pro gamer requires a LOT of dedication and you need to be able to play for 10 + hours EVERYDAY for practice..
Terrible advice. Even Idra has said that ten hours a day was excessive. It's quite possible to be a very good gamer and decent student at the same time, qxc is a good example.
Idra plays a lot, and your not idra! we don't see QXC anywhere in the GSL or winning any major tournaments... huk is a good example of how much you need to play .
Make no mistake SC pros are as much athletes as sprinters, football players, chess players whatever. And if you don't have the +5% to genetics you'll never be at the top no matter what.
Looks like I was right, science proves pros are different than most of us.
TLDR: Scientists have conducted a study to check the aptitude of random people at a video game and tried correlating it with scans of their brains. They found a clear connection between the people's performance at the video game with the size of certain features in their brain such the nucleus accumbens and putamen. So just like you can be a "born talent" at a sport such as track, it would seem you can be born with a "natural ability" in E-sports as well?
your chances are slim, you should focus on a career instead of pro gaming out of which you wont even be able to make a living. Prizes might look fabulous but you wont get there.
And worst scenario, which is also the most likely to happen, you'll never get that good to actually win tournaments but the practice time will crush your study time and you'll end up 22-23-24 years old and have nothing.
You dont just jump in and excel at something. That might happen like 1% of cases but in 8 months youre just top diamond, so not the case here.
If you had been playing competitively for years up until now... you maybe had a chance.
I dont understand what you guys say. "Dont care what the rest tell you?" "Do what you want to do and dont worry about what your parents tell you"?
What the fuck? seriously, what the fuck? Those parents are paying him: home. food. education. a good life.
You wanna pay them by not going to college, by not working. So, you want to be fed by them for another 5 years, and if you dont succed, you think anyone can go to college? Good luck. Seriously good luck. I hope you and those young boys that think like you wake up soon.
you want to know the truth? the truth is that you dont like learning. You dont like to go to school. You like sitting in your chair playing and chatting all day, watching forums all day. YES thats an awesome thing, i love doing it. but DUDE thats 1 thing, and succeeding in something as big as esports is something else.
Make no mistake SC pros are as much athletes as sprinters, football players, chess players whatever. And if you don't have the +5% to genetics you'll never be at the top no matter what.
Looks like I was right, science proves pros are different than most of us.
TLDR: Scientists have conducted a study to check the aptitude of random people at a video game and tried correlating it with scans of their brains. They found a clear connection between the people's performance at the video game with the size of certain features in their brain such the nucleus accumbens and putamen. So just like you can be a "born talent" at a sport such as track, it would seem you can be born with a "natural ability" in E-sports as well?
What you have to think of is that your brain is not a set stone from birth, these features in the brain can be evolved from hours and hours of playing. This is also found in musicians.
Clearly hard work is still important. There might be some advantages to people who have some faster reflexes or something along those lines but really hard work and practice is just as or more important. I think Day[9] daily is a good story of how to become a pro and how to get into the pro gaming scene.
If I really knew the answer I probably wouldn't be posting here though
Make no mistake SC pros are as much athletes as sprinters, football players, chess players whatever. And if you don't have the +5% to genetics you'll never be at the top no matter what.
Looks like I was right, science proves pros are different than most of us.
TLDR: Scientists have conducted a study to check the aptitude of random people at a video game and tried correlating it with scans of their brains. They found a clear connection between the people's performance at the video game with the size of certain features in their brain such the nucleus accumbens and putamen. So just like you can be a "born talent" at a sport such as track, it would seem you can be born with a "natural ability" in E-sports as well?
What you have to think of is that your brain is not a set stone from birth, these features in the brain can be evolved from hours and hours of playing. This is also found in musicians.
^^^ Bingo.
The Role of Deliberate Practice. Google it and read.
Get yourself a name AND tournament/pressure experience.
There are several players since retail launch who have got contracts purely on their ladder and online tournament placements.
Peronsally, i would play it like Socke - use gaming as a side-career to fund you through university. Finish your education while maintaning a high level of pro play (or semi-pro) on a team, and then you can go fulltime when you finish and take time doing nothing but gaming.
That way you have both a backup plan and a great shot at succeeding at pro.
On January 14 2011 22:49 Pongo wrote: Only take advice from those who have done it.
Would you ask a person on the poverty line how to become a millionaire? And if you did, would their advice be valuable?
So listen to the pro's and ignore the rest, for what do they know..?
- Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain and most fools do
Because everyone who isn't a pro has no idea how to get there? You make no sense. I'm no pro, but I can tell you you need to win Tournys and get your name out there. If say CaTz can't go an hour without hearing how soandso just stomped this pro or that pro hell have to talk to you and see if you're good enough for ROOT.
Make no mistake SC pros are as much athletes as sprinters, football players, chess players whatever. And if you don't have the +5% to genetics you'll never be at the top no matter what.
Looks like I was right, science proves pros are different than most of us.
TLDR: Scientists have conducted a study to check the aptitude of random people at a video game and tried correlating it with scans of their brains. They found a clear connection between the people's performance at the video game with the size of certain features in their brain such the nucleus accumbens and putamen. So just like you can be a "born talent" at a sport such as track, it would seem you can be born with a "natural ability" in E-sports as well?
Nucleus accumbens is the pleasure and reward center of the brain, it could be a con-founder since people with higher activity at pleasure center tend to be more addicted to video games, hence play more.
There is a much larger gap between Bronze > 2000 diamond than 2000 diamond > pros. I would say be sure that you can be that good before dropping school.
If you are decided to do so, you need to play a lot more, enter every tournament you can, and work the game at least 8 hours/day. This involve playing ladder, but watching replays and talking to good players about the game too.
I'd say start small. Don't immediately start going into tournaments. Try setting up a stream and working your way up the ladder. I'm not sure about Minigun, but as far as I knew, he played like crazy and climbed way up the ladder and is now part of ROOT gaming. At the moment, you're only around 2.5k diamond so you're going to have to ladder a ton. At least if you have a stream, you'll be known in the community.
On January 14 2011 22:33 Red. wrote: I dont understand what you guys say. "Dont care what the rest tell you?" "Do what you want to do and dont worry about what your parents tell you"?
What the fuck? seriously, what the fuck? Those parents are paying him: home. food. education. a good life.
You wanna pay them by not going to college, by not working. So, you want to be fed by them for another 5 years, and if you dont succed, you think anyone can go to college? Good luck. Seriously good luck. I hope you and those young boys that think like you wake up soon.
you want to know the truth? the truth is that you dont like learning. You dont like to go to school. You like sitting in your chair playing and chatting all day, watching forums all day. YES thats an awesome thing, i love doing it. but DUDE thats 1 thing, and succeeding in something as big as esports is something else.
Go to college.
A man of sense.
I'm not sure a starcraft forum is necessarily the best place to get career advice.
Sorry to be harsh but your 'improvement' is nothing special. Decent casual players can get to that level. If you can do what Kolll did then it would be a different story. As it is, enjoy SC2 and spend time getting better but realize that ultimately you will have to find a career elsewhere.
The easiest way to become pro is to play lots, but in order to do that you need $$$ so either get a job that lets you play SC2 such as coaching or streaming for payment, the alternative is to be sponsored by a team and for that you must give the team lots of coverage, traffic to site and representation so joining every tournament and placing top 4 gets you noticed. Or you can follow my route and find a real job and play after work..... working out how to fund the life style is a good step to becoming pro but a lot of it is down to luck and finding people that are in a position to help you out and believe in you.
Day 9, one of the best learners in gaming, ever, took 10 years between entering his first WCG to winning his first WCG. I don't think you have a big chance, but please prove me otherwise.
Yeah... I agree with those guys that if you have been playing since beta and just got to 2500, thats nothing impressive... I mean... I started playing sc2 1v1 after mlg dc and went from bronze to 2400 diamond...
So I'll just echo the camp of "don't drop everything" sentiments. There's really no reason why you shouldn't continue your education while playing. You'd be hard pressed to find many jobs that don't require AT LEAST a high school degree if not more. And the current growth of eSports is unpredictable. Who knows what's going to happen in 5, 10 years? Best not to put all your eggs in one basket, as much as I or anyone else here would want eSports to be popularized around the world.
To the guy that suggested the people saying "you've got a slim chance" are jealous or haters, lol @ you. We're the only ones providing a reality check for the OP here while a handful of you are egging him on an near impossible goal.
yep, this guy has no clue what he's doing, but I'll give you the "safe" road for those who want to be progamers.
- drop most of your hobbies other than starcraft. keep one form of exercise and then maybe one other serious interest other than starcraft. - stay in school and continue to do well. the worst thing you can do is count on your improvement. you do NOT want to commit to starcraft until you know you will be successful. - practice with all your other time. enter every open tournament with a prize. you will eventually get noticed by smaller sponsored teams if you do well. players on these teams are always encouraged to play these tournaments, and they will notice you. - now you are around top 200 level, joined the b-team or non contracted roster of a sponsored team. continue living how you were. - once you are contracted and have to constantly attend team practices and play in tournaments, consider dropping everything but school/work and sc if you're really committed. do NOT drop school or work. - go to mlgs, play in other lan tournaments/TSL if you begin to place highly (top 8-16), THEN you decide if you want to drop school or work, if it is convenient for you. don't drop school if you know you won't start again. if you have the finances, consider going to korea.
I would not write off college yet. Do your best in school and try to win some tourneys on the side. You shouldn't really decide to go pro until you've proven you have enough talent, THEN you can decide to commit to it full time.
I also disagree about Korea being the best choice to make money. That's where the best players are, so you probably are more likely to win prize money in the States/EU vs a smaller talent pool/less centralized competitive geographic SC2 area. There's a reason TLO went back to Europe besides his carpal tunnel. He knew he could win many tourneys while in Korea he was unlikely to win them, in spite of the prize pool being much higher.
Dude...just play your best, win significant amount of tournaments and some team will pick you up if they like you. Still you have really really small chance but whatever. Wish you good luck and have fun, that's most importnant.
On January 15 2011 02:09 0neder wrote: I would not write off college yet. Do your best in school and try to win some tourneys on the side. You shouldn't really decide to go pro until you've proven you have enough talent, THEN you can decide to commit to it full time.
I also disagree about Korea being the best choice to make money. That's where the best players are, so you probably are more likely to win prize money in the States/EU vs a smaller talent pool/less centralized competitive geographic SC2 area. There's a reason TLO went back to Europe besides his carpal tunnel. He knew he could win many tourneys while in Korea he was unlikely to win them, in spite of the prize pool being much higher.
You're missing the important part, which is that korea is the best place to improve.
On January 14 2011 22:33 Red. wrote: I dont understand what you guys say. "Dont care what the rest tell you?" "Do what you want to do and dont worry about what your parents tell you"?
What the fuck? seriously, what the fuck? Those parents are paying him: home. food. education. a good life.
You wanna pay them by not going to college, by not working. So, you want to be fed by them for another 5 years, and if you dont succed, you think anyone can go to college? Good luck. Seriously good luck. I hope you and those young boys that think like you wake up soon.
you want to know the truth? the truth is that you dont like learning. You dont like to go to school. You like sitting in your chair playing and chatting all day, watching forums all day. YES thats an awesome thing, i love doing it. but DUDE thats 1 thing, and succeeding in something as big as esports is something else.
Aim to be the best, being a 'pro' will come with that.
I've been playing since the game first came out, as my first real RTS and I'm 2700 diamond.
Imma be pro before yooooouuu :D.
Seriously though, you have to think that all these people have had a lot more experience than you in RTS, so make sure all your practice is more concentrated and more valuable than theirs.
Step 1. Play Step 2. Encounter a problem Step 3. Try to Resolve the problem Step 4. Did it work? If not, try again, or see how a tiptop player does it. Step 5. Fix your error Step 6. Repeat.
Too many people just
Play -> Encounter a Problem -> Play again anyway.
You can't learn if you do that.
If you make a mistake, but carry on regardless, your brain will tell you that it is okay. Instead, stop and do it till you get it right.
Now, obviously you can't quit whenever you get supply blocked, but make sure you make yourself feel shit about it, so that you don't do it again ;D.
Good luck in getting to the top , I'll see you at the end!
On December 10 2010 13:58 Idmaif wrote: ok, i know this sounds crazy to a ton of people, but i am halfway through my Jr year in highschool, and im working on getting good enough to be able to become pro right after highschool. and i know there are going to be tons of people who say "dont do it! its too risky!" or "your wasting your life" but this is what i am dedicated to do.
let me start off by saying how good i actually am right now. so i have been playing for about 8 months, (since beta) and i have improved from pretty low bronze newbie to pretty high diamond because i am a very fast learner. but if i made that much of an improvement in 8 months, another year and half will get me a lot higher. so i am constantly working my way up to get closer to the top 200 where a few of my friends are. here is my profile http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/339086/1/iDreamadroid/ so i am not the best in the world yet, but probly around rank 4000 in the US. and of course i will work my way up.
so how do people actually start to make a living off of it? do you have to move to korea like IdrA and just find every little tournament plus GSL? cant you join a clan and get sponsored or something?
i am just a little unfamiliar of the whole process of how this works. so any productive responses are appreciated, just try to leave out the criticism. but i know that Team Liquid is awesome enough to have less trolls than any other forum.
also maybe remember the name iDreamadroid for future years ;D everyone starts somewhere
If you really want to become a pro gamer, just get good at the game and everything else will follow. You don't need to "make connections" or anything...
Why does everyone think its either high school/college for sc2?
I've finished high school, I finished college, there is plenty of time if he manages his schedule to do both. You can easily fit in 8-10 hours of play a day on top of schooling if you are committed to it, probably even more. Like everyone else says also do as many tournaments as you possibly can, start a livestream, get your name out there!!
On January 15 2011 03:19 Zeetee wrote: If you really want to become a pro gamer, just get good at the game and everything else will follow. You don't need to "make connections" or anything...
I pray to brother Mack that this guy is being sarcastic. Its WHO you know not WHAT you know for the most part in everything in life.
On January 15 2011 03:19 Zeetee wrote: If you really want to become a pro gamer, just get good at the game and everything else will follow. You don't need to "make connections" or anything...
I pray to brother Mack that this guy is being sarcastic. Its WHO you know not WHAT you know for the most part in everything in life.
On January 15 2011 03:30 dmillz wrote: I pray to brother Mack that this guy is being sarcastic. Its WHO you know not WHAT you know for the most part in everything in life.
IdrA, HuK, Tyler, iNcontroL , Ret, etc could literally not know anyone and be contacted due to their amazing skill. If you think charisma and "connections" will land you a spot on Team Liquid, I don't know what to say. StarCraft 2 isn't a fraternity networking event.
Well i would pretty much say enter as many tourneys as possible and just got notoriety from that. I would also recommend streaming here on TL.net since you can start to get an audience which gives you more notoriety. After you have a decent following and win some tourneys you can apply to some top clans hopefully you get in then you have some better practice partners which you use to your advantage from here on its basically Practice Practice Practice.
I don't think there's any difference between SC2, guitar, chess or soccer. You have to sacrifice a lot, dedicate a lot, make it your life. If you don't you won't be good enuogh compared to those who make such sacrifices and commitments. The tournament that Day9 has won was one for which he practiced like 14 hours a day. If you ask any Korean how long they practice, they'll say very high numbers of hours...And of course, they play SC2 and do a couple more things, but it's the centre of their lives. The idea or plan is very simple,but it's a tough challenge, obviously.
On January 15 2011 02:01 Pokebunny wrote: yep, this guy has no clue what he's doing, but I'll give you the "safe" road for those who want to be progamers.
- drop most of your hobbies other than starcraft. keep one form of exercise and then maybe one other serious interest other than starcraft. - stay in school and continue to do well. the worst thing you can do is count on your improvement. you do NOT want to commit to starcraft until you know you will be successful. - practice with all your other time. enter every open tournament with a prize. you will eventually get noticed by smaller sponsored teams if you do well. players on these teams are always encouraged to play these tournaments, and they will notice you. - now you are around top 200 level, joined the b-team or non contracted roster of a sponsored team. continue living how you were. - once you are contracted and have to constantly attend team practices and play in tournaments, consider dropping everything but school/work and sc if you're really committed. do NOT drop school or work. - go to mlgs, play in other lan tournaments/TSL if you begin to place highly (top 8-16), THEN you decide if you want to drop school or work, if it is convenient for you. don't drop school if you know you won't start again. if you have the finances, consider going to korea.
It seems certain people have a very unhealthy obsession with "becoming pro" at SC2. It reminds me a lot of club basketball players I used to play with. I was very, very good at basketball. Good enough to go to college for it; however, I knew in my heart I was no where near good enough to go to the NBA. Not even close. There were other club members I played with who were absolutely certain they would make it (they didn't, of course). It's ok to have a healthy sense of reality when confronting questions about how far you can make it. This isn't to say "don't believe in yourself" but rather "don't delude yourself".
If you're talented enough, and work hard enough, you'll become pro. But that first part is the kicker. There are very, very few with an inherent, natural talent superior enough to propel them into those pro ranks.
I'd rather focus on becoming the best I can possibly be, without delusions of personal grandeur.
I read a bunch of the posts and i got really intrested! I too want to become a great Starcraft 2 player. (15 soon 16 years old) and my goal now is to get into the top 200 Europe. I live in sweden and i right now have 2500 points in Master league. After reading the posts i calculated how much time i can spend playing starcraft.
29.5 hours a week I can spend playing ladder, custom, tournaments, watching replays, day9 tournaments and so on. (Beyond these 29.5 hours, i can go to school, do homework, get exercise and so on)
And with motivation and really playing these 30 hours one can get far, or am i wrong? I have gotten 2nd in a swedish tournament and it has "whetted my appetite" so to speak. I think you can get great if you want to and set up goals for yourself. Go with what you love, and do it to 100%!
On January 15 2011 05:03 sGDaevil wrote: I read a bunch of the posts and i got really intrested! I too want to become a great Starcraft 2 player. (15 soon 16 years old) and my goal now is to get into the top 200 Europe. I live in sweden and i right now have 2500 points in Master league. After reading the posts i calculated how much time i can spend playing starcraft.
29.5 hours a week I can spend playing ladder, custom, tournaments, watching replays, day9 tournaments and so on. (Beyond these 29.5 hours, i can go to school, do homework, get exercise and so on)
And with motivation and really playing these 30 hours one can get far, or am i wrong? I have gotten 2nd in a swedish tournament and it has "whetted my appetite" so to speak. I think you can get great if you want to and set up goals for yourself. Go with what you love, and do it to 100%!
Go for it! If you enjoy Starcraft enough to dedicate 30 hours a week to getting better, you will make it far.
EPT
. But even if you go "pro" there will come a day when your reflexes are too slow to keep paying the bills and you will be glad that you got your education and have something to fall back on.
quote instead of edit sorry 
??
