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On December 07 2010 15:27 NearPerfection wrote:
Sigh, I was enjoying Phoenix actually countering Muta for once, now with FG nerf removed, mass muta will once again kill every single Phoenix that comes close to an infestor. When people get better at the game and this becomes more common hopefully this will be looked at once again.
so whats the deal? muta come near HT -> Storm + phoenixes to finish them off. Seems fair to me :/
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Something else about protoss needs to be changed. Phoenix themselves are great at harassing, but they are even riskier than mutas, since phoenix are absolutely terrible in a battle (unless your opponent is bad). Phoenix are also gas heavy meaning less sentries and less tech units like collosus or high templar making protoss armies even weaker. Each phoenix is the same cost as 1 zealot and 1 sentry. Another possibility is removing the energy on phoenix and making graviton beam a cooldown ability if it means they can use it more often. I can't tell you how many times i've been harassing with phoenix like crazy and my opponent pushes and all my phoenix have 0 energy.
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On December 08 2010 08:03 darmousseh wrote:
Something else about protoss needs to be changed. Phoenix themselves are great at harassing, but they are even riskier than mutas, since phoenix are absolutely terrible in a battle (unless your opponent is bad). Phoenix are also gas heavy meaning less sentries and less tech units like collosus or high templar making protoss armies even weaker. Each phoenix is the same cost as 1 zealot and 1 sentry. Another possibility is removing the energy on phoenix and making graviton beam a cooldown ability if it means they can use it more often. I can't tell you how many times i've been harassing with phoenix like crazy and my opponent pushes and all my phoenix have 0 energy.
Hm, I'm fairly sure that making graviton beam a cooldown would be a very bad idea. It's better for the phoenix to be able to store up energy and use the beam 2-3 times in a row rather than once every cooldown. I mean, consider how the phoenix is used. You swoop into a base, do as much damage as you can, and get out.
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Well that's certainly good news. They could have thought this up themselves imo, but it's good to know they are not just pushing sweeping changes through without putting some thought into it. Curious what they were testing with that bunker change though, seems so arbitrary.
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On December 08 2010 08:00 Arakash wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 15:27 NearPerfection wrote:
Sigh, I was enjoying Phoenix actually countering Muta for once, now with FG nerf removed, mass muta will once again kill every single Phoenix that comes close to an infestor. When people get better at the game and this becomes more common hopefully this will be looked at once again. so whats the deal? muta come near HT -> Storm + phoenixes to finish them off. Seems fair to me :/
storm can be dodged, and then run away. FG comes out of no where and stops your whole entire air army, i usually keep my ground force defending my base while my phoenixes harass, making FG very dangerous as once the phoenix gets hit they are dead.
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oh yea, lovely hold down key for mass building
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On December 07 2010 15:14 Selith wrote:
What? Blizzard actually changing back stuff due to feedback?
How come this never happened with WoW PTR unless if it was game-breaking?!
Having to spam the hotkey and making fungal not affect air was game breaking
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huh..so they do have a brain. That's good to know.
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Give Phoenix a single photon blaster
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Oh thank GAWD. This was the only thing i was worried about in the new patch. Now i can embrace it and look forward to it =D
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On December 07 2010 15:27 NearPerfection wrote:
Sigh, I was enjoying Phoenix actually countering Muta for once, now with FG nerf removed, mass muta will once again kill every single Phoenix that comes close to an infestor. When people get better at the game and this becomes more common hopefully this will be looked at once again.
It's not such a big deal. Phoenixes come out A LOT faster. Abuse from mutas will be much less common, which is the biggest problem with mutas. There will just be a point in the game where once infestors are out phoenixes can no longer abuse, and there will be a stalemate when it comes to abuse, instead of one being favored over the other.
Anyway, the fungal nerf wasn't just going to affect ZvP. It would've changed ZvT and drastically changed ZvZ as well, making both mu's very one dimensional. As a spectator I'm grateful that they didnt implement the change.
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On December 07 2010 15:15 JotunShagrath wrote:
Haha, all the people who panicked about fungal growth panicked for nothing. Not their fault, it's just funny to me that Blizz would scare the crap out of zergs only to decide not to nerf it.
That would make a great april fools joke. Release the patch notes on PTR which buff marauders, mules and banshees, and keep the changes in until April 1.
On a related note, I think those were the changes that generated the major shitstorm (I personally think that the patch changes were good except for those 3 things). I am pretty glad that Blizzard listens to us, and hope it continues in the future.
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Impressed with the support from Blizzard, my only heavy experience with their games before would have been WoW, and the level of follow-up past patches is usually rather low.
Obviously Zerg are gonna be rejoicing from the Fungal return. Hopefully the dedication to balance continues.
Wonder if any more goodies will be included in 1.2 that haven't been announced for testing yet...
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On December 08 2010 09:24 KiF1rE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 08:00 Arakash wrote:On December 07 2010 15:27 NearPerfection wrote:
Sigh, I was enjoying Phoenix actually countering Muta for once, now with FG nerf removed, mass muta will once again kill every single Phoenix that comes close to an infestor. When people get better at the game and this becomes more common hopefully this will be looked at once again. so whats the deal? muta come near HT -> Storm + phoenixes to finish them off. Seems fair to me :/ storm can be dodged, and then run away. FG comes out of no where and stops your whole entire air army, i usually keep my ground force defending my base while my phoenixes harass, making FG very dangerous as once the phoenix gets hit they are dead.
As they are both instant cast, Storm and FG both "come out of nowhere." The area on FG is so small that if you don't clump up your air units, it should never ever EVER be a problem to deal with. Zerg players had to magic box to adapt to thors, learn to do the same to not lose unacceptable amounts of your army to something otherwise easily avoided.
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Looks like all that stuck was a VR nerf..now its a patch 
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Looks like all that stuck was a VR nerf..now its a patch
...and a substantial Phoenix build time buff, a substantial VR vs. Massive buff, a decent buff to Observer cost and Hallucination research time, a major nerf to Terran repair and a minor nerf to Ultra splash.
On the whole, Toss definitely got better this patch. Just, you know, "noticably but not overwhelmingly" better, instead of "utterly matchup breaking" better like they were with the Infestor nerf.
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Maybe if fungal growth didn't stop air unit movement but slowed it and acted as a greater damage dealer. Cos it is annoying to have fungal growth casted on ur air units if your toss.
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Heh it makes me wonder if Blizzard put the fungal change into the PTR to raise awareness about infestors. Eg. "People aren't using fungal growth enough to stop air units... maybe if we take it away they will realize what they are missing out on!". Fungal is used pretty extensively on terran infantry and as a result on medivacs, but I haven't seen it as often as expected in ZvZ and even more seldomly in ZvP. Now zergs will definitely be considering infestors in response to heavy air play 
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when's this patch coming out?
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EPT
