On December 05 2010 18:01 papaz wrote: Perfect balance patch from blizz.
I was so mad watching the guinea pig game where his phoenixes got FG. + Show Spoiler +
and imo cost him the game.
And I am so tired in late game seeing drops being so useless. Well thought out balance from blizz.
Well that was Guineapigs own fault. The infestor if fucking huge, and it was going straight towards the phoenixes under the mutas, but guineapig still wasnt aware enough.
Burrowed infestors shooting at 20 mutas/phoenixes can be quite OP if backed up with hydras. But keep in mind that this is what zerg have. We dont have stimmed marines, thors, storms (vs big amount of mutas), blink stalkers, and phoenixes that can kite and chase you down if played correct. We only have hydras and some spores with a queen that dies in a hearthbeat vs phoenixes.
I agree corruptors are a good answer, but corruptors gets so damn useless after fighting air. Phoenixes can harras the living shit out of your drones/queens. Even if there are 3 spores, they just fly by, pick up a queen and snipe it (or drones in the same amount). They can simply regen the shield and return later.
Is anyone else on the SEA region having trouble logging into PTR?
When I select NA as my region it tells me that there is no SC2 tied to the account. When I select SEA as my region it locks down after I type in my password, the background is still moving but I'm unable to access any of the options, connect, menu etc
On December 05 2010 13:59 wintergt wrote: I'd love to see how the fungal change will play out. I saw guinea pig (I believe?) lose a game because his phoenixes got fungal'd just once, and they all died right there. So I can understand this change. It might also give terran a chance vs zerg lategame. Right now, terran lategame vs zerg is pretty much 100% loss. Zerg can usually already see the whole map with creepspread so drops don't come out of nowhere, and fungals counter them hardcore. With this change terran might have a chance? We'll have to see.
My only concern is that protoss air might become too dominant. (and yes I'm playing protoss atm, just want to see a balanced game)
think you need to watch GSL or something as terrans have been beating zerg late game.
Clide won a macro game on the most imba map TvZ which is jungle basin. Jinro 2-0 Moon who played pretty horribly in both game. Please don't use these weak references to support your bias.
One T horribly out macro'd Fruitdealer on Xel naga, the terran ended up losing to him. but he definitely out macro'd fruitdealer.
T's can macro, you guys just refuse to develope that half of your game. for some reaons macro to terran = how many raxes pumping marines can i get instead of how many bases can i get away with. terrans with bases are scary scary.
I don't buy the "Terran's don't macro argument". They've tried. It's not as effective as a more aggressive style of play
There's a build where terran uses mass OC's instead of most supply depots. In the replays supplied he maxes out (200/200) between 12-14 min when the zerg is at 120 supply. The build is also really safe since you only take your natural, which is saturated really fast with so many OC's and then you have mules on top of that. He had steady 2200 income after 9 min.
Terrans are just to scared to try different stuff
I like the thought behind that build and think it's a cool economic cheese but it's not going to be a standard macro strat. Massing to 200/200 and attacking is never going to be a legitimate strat at high levels.
Terrans are the best at trying different stuff in this matchup.. ZvT has been muta/ling since the dawn of time while the TvZ side has gone through about 500,000 different strategies and constantly evolves.
There's a reason for that. I hope you're not suggesting zergs are not trying new stuff.
On December 05 2010 18:33 PrinceXizor wrote: I'm surprised we haven't seen any Eco-Terrorism by ravens. I'd love(hate with all of my fiery fiery passion) to see terran use HSM to snipe larva off of zerg before engaging their army, preventing the instant 200/200 that can happen from zerg and just rolling them. it'd be so crafty and ingenious and soooo lame. do it Terrans.. Do it...
Ravens compete with Gas with Tanks and Thors. They are good, but I think that most high level terran would prefer the extra tank or thor.
take a third/fourth, invest in 4 ravens, use them to kill tumors, and then to reduce the incoming units after a army trade by 70. i'd say it's worth the 800 gas.
4 HSMs will never kill 70 pop of units unless your opponent is asleep or moves a ball of mutas onto you.
Edit: or did you mean 70 hp?
4 HSM will kill about 70 larva before a 200/200 vs 200/200 fight, drastically reducing the number of units zerg can reproduce quickly.
Ah. This would definitely be hilarious if anyone could pull it off.
On December 05 2010 18:01 papaz wrote: Perfect balance patch from blizz.
I was so mad watching the guinea pig game where his phoenixes got FG. + Show Spoiler +
and imo cost him the game.
And I am so tired in late game seeing drops being so useless. Well thought out balance from blizz.
Well that was Guineapigs own fault. The infestor if fucking huge, and it was going straight towards the phoenixes under the mutas, but guineapig still wasnt aware enough.
Burrowed infestors shooting at 20 mutas/phoenixes can be quite OP if backed up with hydras. But keep in mind that this is what zerg have. We dont have stimmed marines, thors, storms (vs big amount of mutas), blink stalkers, and phoenixes that can kite and chase you down if played correct. We only have hydras and some spores with a queen that dies in a hearthbeat vs phoenixes.
I agree corruptors are a good answer, but corruptors gets so damn useless after fighting air. Phoenixes can harras the living shit out of your drones/queens. Even if there are 3 spores, they just fly by, pick up a queen and snipe it (or drones in the same amount). They can simply regen the shield and return later.
corruptors arent worth building since they dont do too much better than mutas vs air and cant attack ground after
On December 05 2010 18:33 PrinceXizor wrote: I'm surprised we haven't seen any Eco-Terrorism by ravens. I'd love(hate with all of my fiery fiery passion) to see terran use HSM to snipe larva off of zerg before engaging their army, preventing the instant 200/200 that can happen from zerg and just rolling them. it'd be so crafty and ingenious and soooo lame. do it Terrans.. Do it...
Ravens compete with Gas with Tanks and Thors. They are good, but I think that most high level terran would prefer the extra tank or thor.
take a third/fourth, invest in 4 ravens, use them to kill tumors, and then to reduce the incoming units after a army trade by 70. i'd say it's worth the 800 gas.
4 HSMs will never kill 70 pop of units unless your opponent is asleep or moves a ball of mutas onto you.
Edit: or did you mean 70 hp?
4 HSM will kill about 70 larva before a 200/200 vs 200/200 fight, drastically reducing the number of units zerg can reproduce quickly.
Ah. This would definitely be hilarious if anyone could pull it off.
not like that can run the little worms away. and they'd need 4 queens/hatch to stop the ravens before hsm goes off.
know this isnt the right place but this but im gonna b streaming some KOTH on the new patch and if anyone is interested in playing, or obsing add me and ill get you in!
On December 05 2010 18:01 papaz wrote: Perfect balance patch from blizz.
I was so mad watching the guinea pig game where his phoenixes got FG. + Show Spoiler +
and imo cost him the game.
And I am so tired in late game seeing drops being so useless. Well thought out balance from blizz.
Burrowed infestors shooting at 20 mutas/phoenixes can be quite OP if backed up with hydras. But keep in mind that this is what zerg have. We dont have stimmed marines, thors, storms (vs big amount of mutas), blink stalkers, and phoenixes that can kite and chase you down if played correct. We only have hydras and some spores with a queen that dies in a hearthbeat vs phoenixes.
It's not overpowerd. Bloodbath also was such a strong spell. It just requires a proper response, like splitting your air forces.
I also busted many mutalisk massing people in diamond. Without fungal, there is no counter to this mass air harassment bullshit.
In my opinion, rts games are about large ground armies, where the terrain plays a role and air support, which has its special role. Air being very powerful during one stage of the game and making up the whole army, is also ok. But after this change, we might see 40 minutes games just with vikings/banshees, mutalisks and phoenixes, but nothing else. It will be so stupid.
Any of you lucky US PTRs care to comment on PvP with the voidray's +20% damage to massive buff? Are there signs of viability vs Colloxen? I'm doubting it slightly but it would be interesting to hear what you think.
I am T but i play random also alot.. and my experience is that fungal can be huge against cloaked banshees or mutas but if this patch is going live.... then Z will have even more problems with Air than now... i think the gameplay will change a lot for Z
I also think that this fungal change is not good... but for the rest Blizzard did a great job!
The hallucination time is from 82.5 to 67.5 The cost reduction makes it more like sc1, (12minutesx 4/3 "Faster" = 16minutes "Normal") bunker is 26.25 down to a temporary 22.5 approx 3.75 secs faster
if only they'd use the beta stats for the mothership...+planet cracker...
So much crying, the world is ending because you can't snare a group of air units. Welcome to the world of the other two races, well mostly just Protoss when it comes to mutas harass. If you care so much about the air build some corruptors. I tried a civil response but everyone is blowing everything so far out of proportion. Literally nothing has changed except ZvZ is now subject to mutas like the other two races have to deal with.
Not saying anything in regards to being balanced, just sick and tired of everyone whining and crying about changes. Seriously just let Blizzard do their jobs, if you think a certain strategy is imbalanced then abuse it and bring it to their attention. Whining, complaining, and stamping your feet gets you no where.
EPT
