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On November 23 2010 18:38 DreamSailor wrote:
I think Terrans need to take note of the second game of Jys vs. ZergBong. Very unorthodox way to play, but actually pretty decent. I also like the idea of having Planetary Fortresses to create an artificial choke of a death wall, yes they are expensive as hell. But one is hard enough to break, imagine 2 or 3. You'd need Broodlords. Which get rocked hard by vikings. He also got some of the less frequently gotten upgrades, like Missile Turret and Planetary Fortress range.
his second upgrade from the engineering bay was building armor upgrade also. he transitioned into PFs too late i think. had he done it 2 minutes earlier he would have dominated.
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I wonder how spine crawlers could affect this playstyle.
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On November 23 2010 18:42 Mainland wrote:
I wonder how spine crawlers could affect this playstyle.
Spine crawlers are pretty expensive, but I think solo, a spine crawler can stop ~5-6 marines. It starts getting less effective the more marines there are and you need to start increasing the spine crawler numbers.
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On November 23 2010 18:37 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2010 18:34 dakalro wrote:On November 23 2010 18:26 PrinceXizor wrote:EDIT: to the poster above me, you shoudl stop losing late game battles that badly then  Problem isn't the first 200/200 battle, it's every encounter after that when zerg manages to recover just a bit faster until he's in my base while I'm still not on a strong enough army or destroying my expos while I'm not even close to a decent sized defense; I'm just forced to defend hoping he screws up badly. A Properly upgraded, maintained, and positioned terran army will always come out ahead in food if playing vs a zerg. unless brood lords in numbers of 10 or more exist.
And the battle will be fought away from zerg bases, and by the time I'm in your base with the leftovers you've got defense and more on the way - with the proper composition to counter my attack even, and we're back to speed of army recovery where zerg has the upper hand, in that you get back enough, fast enough, to destroy econ freely for a few seconds. Ofc I mean the time when you have both gspire and ultra cavern up or plenty of econ to get them up asap.
The midgame is not really balanced in favor of zerg but anything involving close to 200/200 army and full tech options is and midgame is balanced enough that defense is possible without much slowdown - 50-50 you get to tech up and gain a significant bonus to win chance.
It is that reason terran chooses to fight where chances of slowdown or win are higher. Unfortunately it is not too entertaining to watch but until blizzard removes the option of attack units in the first 5 minutes, why not?
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I personally think Blizzard will probably nerf this because starcraft isn't meant to be played like this. The games are very short and very few units are used. An early push to harass your opponent is acceptable but killing them straight out just feels like the game lacks depth. I find this very similar to the mass reaper opening, which was considered OP.
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I think its not safe to go hatch now even in NA server terrans are adapting to this strategy
Zerg "the swarm" its just right that zerg should be stronger at late game since but i still think tier 3 is so dam slow ( it takes 3+ base to fully produce tier 3 units)
Terran have units to prevent that (banshees, blue ignite hellions, stim bio ball) and while harassing they can easily take and defend third with a PF
The only problem with jys vs nestea is that the terran didn't move out while zerg has 5 bases i think
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Starcraft is meant to be played in such a way as to destroy all enemy buildings or force your opponent to surrender, have yet to see the Official Blizzard Rules and Regulations on how to play SCII.
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Earlier this week i got 2 rax'd when i went 14 hatch and there are alot of little tricks you can use to fend it off alot easier. for instance. get your first queen at your nat, and spread creep first. (and then inject). you get enough lings to defend still AND they get a speed boost and can surround easier. not to mention bunker prevention. the faster lair is something else that works against it, and third. putting down the 100/50 for a baneling nest whether you use it or not early won't kill you tbh.
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All i think when i see this:
Wow... SCV's are strong.
Wow... Mules keep him in game pretty long, wtf?
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I don't think it is cheese at all. Terrans can trade workers because they have mules to keep their econ going, so they just throw a bunch of SCV's in with their early aggression. It's very calculated.
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But if they want to keep up their econ they lose the scan so they will blindly push into your defense. If they scanned and attack you've just finished ahead if you manage the defense.
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On November 23 2010 18:52 dakalro wrote:
Starcraft is meant to be played in such a way as to destroy all enemy buildings or force your opponent to surrender, have yet to see the Official Blizzard Rules and Regulations on how to play SCII.
Here is a rule, barracks after supply depot.
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I don't see 2 rax pressure bypassing that rule. That was done for the proxy rax rush not for 2 rax pressure into win or CC.
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Marine buildtime +5s and Baneling Range +1 could fix the problem
oh wait...
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On November 23 2010 16:39 FataLe wrote:
This reminds me of PvT where you guess wrong you lose.
As Protoss of course, seeing how Terran seems to have a free ticket to midgame, every game.
A free ticket to where the tide swings in favor of protoss, wow what a valuable ticket. It reminds me of that movie Last Action Hero, except without any of the fun, and the ticket is actually a piece of shit that you have to eat.
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I never had trouble against this. Mainly because my style has always been FE into an agressive fast speedling/baneling pressure.
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On November 23 2010 18:50 DarkRise wrote:
I think its not safe to go hatch now even in NA server terrans are adapting to this strategy
Zerg "the swarm" its just right that zerg should be stronger at late game since but i still think tier 3 is so dam slow ( it takes 3+ base to fully produce tier 3 units)
Terran have units to prevent that (banshees, blue ignite hellions, stim bio ball) and while harassing they can easily take and defend third with a PF
The only problem with jys vs nestea is that the terran didn't move out while zerg has 5 bases i think
It doesn't just punish hatch-first. Even if you pool first you are at risk of bring stomped unless you spam lings. That's what's frustrating. If he denies scouting, you'll lose your expo (even IF you went pool first). If the terran stutter-steps, there is no way slow lings can kill them. You just stall until speed is done. Meanwhile the Terran is happily teching and probably taking an expansion. You have very few drones and some leftover useless units, assuming you aren't dead.
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Blizzard said thay dont want the game to be like "I have a good chance to win untill 12-15 minute mark, than Im screwed.." Now, it seems like TvP and TvZ in particular goes exactly like this. Expect to see some balance tweaks so that we wont see all those all-ins to counter 14 hatch or brainless MMM stimming to death.. So for those guys that say "This is how Terran is designed, deal with it.." sorry, but you are wrong. They (either Blizz or players themself) will make Terran macro play more viable (through patches, units from expansions, etc..) because no one wants to play or watch this kind of stereotype boring play that involves 2-3 units at maximum..
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http://nerdnugget.com/download/file.php?id=102
Here is a replay of me going 13 pool 15 hatch and still getting stomped. Lings/queen aren't early enough to stop the blind bunker wall-in, as its a no-brainer for my Terran opponent because 1-base Zerg is auto-lose.
I manage to actually kill the bunkers without losing a hatch, though the damage is already enough that i can't hold back the stim marine/marauder push 5 min later.
The best part?
His macro is TERRIBLE and I am still literally 8 workers ahead of me after his retarded bunker rush. At no point in the game do I have a better econ than him.
I think I'm going back to hatch first, even pool first doesn't stop the bunker nonsense.
ps: lol at me rage
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Ok, do you guys really think that out of the blue every top korean Terran just decided that they'd start doing marine/scv all-in variations because it's the "standard thing to do?"
they are doing that because that is what the easiest way they can win. Koreans have no obligation to enter the macro game, they all want to win. So they are using all-inns and timing rushes.
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EPT
