EPTHowever, can you actually play Starcraft without the game? It's not like you can play Command and Conquer and call that "Starcraft".
A Korean fan explains why he hates KeSPA - Page 16
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Adila
United States874 Posts
However, can you actually play Starcraft without the game? It's not like you can play Command and Conquer and call that "Starcraft". | ||
|
TheGreatHegemon
61 Posts
On November 15 2010 06:13 Myles wrote: There is a huge difference between sports and video games. A sport consists mostly of rules. To play basketball, baseball, or soccer all you need to enough people and some things to represent goals, bases, ect. You could play any of those sports without any of the proper equipment and get along just fine. Compare that with Starcraft, which is much more than just a set of rules. It also has art and programming and without those you're no longer playing Starcraft. Even if you're using a volleyball in a basketball game, you're still playing basketball. That is why sports and e-sports are incomparable. Starcraft is nothing but a massive set of rules. Anything processed/displayed on a computer is merely being run through the rules/instructions. | ||
|
johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
| ||
|
Nub4ever
Canada1981 Posts
| ||
|
ylih
Finland3 Posts
On November 15 2010 08:17 TheGreatHegemon wrote: Starcraft is nothing but a massive set of rules. Anything processed/displayed on a computer is merely being run through the rules/instructions. That's right, you can create a new game with the exact same rules. Be sure not to call it StarCraft (registered trademark) though, and do not use any assets (graphics, sounds) from SC either (copyrighted material). You should also watch out for any obviously similar software algorithms (might be patented). | ||
|
Sozeles
Norway47 Posts
Again : (using Football, or Soccer to you Americans, as the analogy - because KeSPA uses it) Football ==== computer hardware Stadium ==== battle.net FIFA / UEFA / National Associations === Blizzard Now because Blizzard is the ruling organ and intellectual property (IP) owners of which everyone has to comply to and Blizzard ALSO owns the stadium on which the game is played, it is pretty safe to say that KeSPA has no legal case at all. Please. Understand. Please. | ||
|
LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On November 14 2010 14:53 GTR wrote: I completely disagree. I believe Korea is probably one of the fervent, nationalistic cultures in the world. Which is why all you see when you go to Korea is BMW's... LOL | ||
|
Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
Period. With that being said, judges are people, they have views, what a Korean court would do is unknown to me since I have no idea what Koreans laws are like(Hell, Chinese laws dont even have the idea of trespass). And the case would be heard in Korea, so no one knows what's the court's position, are they sympathetic to KeSPA? Or are they strong on IP rights? However, I do suspect the court would rule in favor of Blizz, since it is so clear that they have the IP rights and KeSPA has none whatsoever. Yet win or not, the case is going to take a long time. What the fans should be worried about more is whether if Blizz asks for an injunction. Which is to stop the occurring events-- OSL/MSL. Basicly the court will step in and stop them from happening, and they will have to stop or it will be a criminal offence. I think it's highly unlikely though, I mean they might get it if they ask for it(but then again, its in Korea and its hard to get an injunction in general), even if they CAN get it, I don't see a benefit from them, because that would be LITERALLY putting an end to the BW pro scene, and likely would prevent any further possibilities to do business with these already established casters. And of course, they will get a whole bunch of angry fans because they dont get to watch flash and Jaedong play. That's a PR thing. If they still have any sense in them, they wouldn't do it. And yes, I'm on blizzard's side. Because IP rights should be protected, it's what ensures the reward for creativity in our society. You make something great, you get compensated, maybe even overcompensated. Simple as that. | ||
|
LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
On November 15 2010 09:05 Sozeles wrote: GET YOUR ANALOGIES RIGHT!!! Again : (using Football, or Soccer to you Americans, as the analogy - because KeSPA uses it) Football ==== computer hardware Stadium ==== battle.net FIFA / UEFA / National Associations === Blizzard Now because Blizzard is the ruling organ and intellectual property (IP) owners of which everyone has to comply to and Blizzard ALSO owns the stadium on which the game is played, it is pretty safe to say that KeSPA has no legal case at all. Please. Understand. Please. Football = Starcraft Stadium = Broadcasting Station Studios (Professional BW games are played over LAN, not Battle.net) FIFA = KeSPA (They're the ones that organize the leagues. Not Blizzard.) Blizzard has absolutely nothing to do with the stadiums or studios in which these games are being played nor do they have anything to do with organizing the leagues or governing them. The only thing they are related to is the product itself that's being used for the leagues organized by KeSPA. As many will argue, a ball and a video game are a bit different in the fact that the video game has voice acting and art, which they would say is intellectual property, but the design of a ball itself and the logos on it is intellectual property and the product of research as well. Besides, what KeSPA is selling is not the broadcast rights to the game, but rather, the broadcast rights to their teams and players. Just because you get permission from Spalding to use their ball and logo in a commercial doesn't mean you get to use a clip of Lebron James. Blizzard has no rights to the actual gameplay of the players, which is their own intellectual property and the property of KeSPA through their contracts. The trouble is that they're claiming that they do and should, which makes no sense at all. The only people Blizzard can go after (and indeed the only ones they wisely chose to) are the broadcasting companies for this reason because they're the only ones potentially in the wrong. Blizzard can't do anything about KeSPA itself except to try to shut them down by making it unprofitable for the broadcasting companies to broadcast Brood War leagues. | ||
|
WeeKeong
United States282 Posts
| ||
|
Cloak
United States816 Posts
Soccer = truncated icosahedron. KeSPA = legally screwed. | ||
|
Firereaver
India1701 Posts
| ||
|
latan
740 Posts
On November 15 2010 06:13 Myles wrote: There is a huge difference between sports and video games. A sport consists mostly of rules. To play basketball, baseball, or soccer all you need to enough people and some things to represent goals, bases, ect. You could play any of those sports without any of the proper equipment and get along just fine. Compare that with Starcraft, which is much more than just a set of rules. It also has art and programming and without those you're no longer playing Starcraft. Even if you're using a volleyball in a basketball game, you're still playing basketball. That is why sports and e-sports are incomparable. that is a fair point but i don't see how art + programming = i have a right to control whatever it is that you want to do with the software you BOUGHT from me. since when is the profit aspect of software bussiness considered to go beyond sales? hypothetically one could invent a game, a physicall one, and also invest some time designing it and whatnot. do you have a right to have control over every single tournament after everyone knows how to play it? the most you could do is patent the equipment and have exclusivity and the sales of it. starcrat is the equipment, they have exclusivity on the sale of it. and they already sold it to you. the ball=software analogy seems perfectly accurate with this point of view. because in all fairness blizzard didn't invent any of the fundamentals of the game. the game is something that goes beyond that, blizzard just made some fine equipment to play it. | ||
|
latan
740 Posts
On November 15 2010 09:24 LegendaryZ wrote: Football = Starcraft Stadium = Broadcasting Station Studios (Professional BW games are played over LAN, not Battle.net) FIFA = KeSPA (They're the ones that organize the leagues. Not Blizzard.) Blizzard has absolutely nothing to do with the stadiums or studios in which these games are being played nor do they have anything to do with organizing the leagues or governing them. The only thing they are related to is the product itself that's being used for the leagues organized by KeSPA. As many will argue, a ball and a video game are a bit different in the fact that the video game has voice acting and art, which they would say is intellectual property, but the design of a ball itself and the logos on it is intellectual property and the product of research as well. Besides, what KeSPA is selling is not the broadcast rights to the game, but rather, the broadcast rights to their teams and players. Just because you get permission from Spalding to use their ball and logo in a commercial doesn't mean you get to use a clip of Lebron James. Blizzard has no rights to the actual gameplay of the players, which is their own intellectual property and the property of KeSPA through their contracts. The trouble is that they're claiming that they do and should, which makes no sense at all. The only people Blizzard can go after (and indeed the only ones they wisely chose to) are the broadcasting companies for this reason because they're the only ones potentially in the wrong. Blizzard can't do anything about KeSPA itself except to try to shut them down by making it unprofitable for the broadcasting companies to broadcast Brood War leagues. ok this man writes better than i do. this indeed. | ||
|
TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On November 15 2010 10:51 latan wrote: that is a fair point but i don't see how art + programming = i have a right to control whatever it is that you want to do with the software you BOUGHT from me. since when is the profit aspect of software bussiness considered to go beyond sales? hypothetically one could invent a game, a physicall one, and also invest some time designing it and whatnot. do you have a right to have control over every single tournament after everyone knows how to play it? the most you could do is patent the equipment and have exclusivity and the sales of it. starcrat is the equipment, they have exclusivity on the sale of it. and they already sold it to you. the ball=software analogy seems perfectly accurate with this point of view. because in all fairness blizzard didn't invent any of the fundamentals of the game. the game is something that goes beyond that, blizzard just made some fine equipment to play it. Blizzard created this specific game. If KeSPA wanted to create a game that plays the same but has different art/sounds and made the game their own, they have free control over it. I dont know the extent of how similar it can be before copyright comes into play, but they can make their own version and be fine. No matter how you argue it, blizzard owns and controls SC. That is it, no matter what you argue it wont change it, even if it doesnt make sense to you. EDIT: What I see some people arguing, is that certain moves are the IP of the players. This doesnt make sense, since they are just operating within the game of BW. If I kick a ball, can I claim that the act of kicking the ball is my IP? | ||
|
Onisparda
Canada516 Posts
| ||
|
Firereaver
India1701 Posts
On November 15 2010 09:24 LegendaryZ wrote: Football = Starcraft Stadium = Broadcasting Station Studios (Professional BW games are played over LAN, not Battle.net) FIFA = KeSPA (They're the ones that organize the leagues. Not Blizzard.) Blizzard has absolutely nothing to do with the stadiums or studios in which these games are being played nor do they have anything to do with organizing the leagues or governing them. The only thing they are related to is the product itself that's being used for the leagues organized by KeSPA. As many will argue, a ball and a video game are a bit different in the fact that the video game has voice acting and art, which they would say is intellectual property, but the design of a ball itself and the logos on it is intellectual property and the product of research as well. Besides, what KeSPA is selling is not the broadcast rights to the game, but rather, the broadcast rights to their teams and players. Just because you get permission from Spalding to use their ball and logo in a commercial doesn't mean you get to use a clip of Lebron James. Blizzard has no rights to the actual gameplay of the players, which is their own intellectual property and the property of KeSPA through their contracts. The trouble is that they're claiming that they do and should, which makes no sense at all. The only people Blizzard can go after (and indeed the only ones they wisely chose to) are the broadcasting companies for this reason because they're the only ones potentially in the wrong. Blizzard can't do anything about KeSPA itself except to try to shut them down by making it unprofitable for the broadcasting companies to broadcast Brood War leagues. Bwahaha. Really? Stadium - Broadcasting studios, FIFA = KESPA. Glad you aren't a lawyer,mate! | ||
|
FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
On November 15 2010 11:05 Onisparda wrote: What is with everyone pretending to be IP experts and stating random shit as if they were facts. That's where most of the problems in this thread come from. | ||
|
Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
On November 14 2010 14:46 LG)Sabbath wrote: isn't this actually a good argument though? It's a fair argument, but soccer uses balls from Mitre, Nike, and many more. The game is only Starcraft, and there aren't any other organizations beside Blizzard that Kespa can negotiate with. Also, the players aren't the ones paying ball manufacturers for a match, the organization is. I'm sure the EPL or La Liga pays ball manufacturers to use the balls. Or it could be vice versa, the ball manufacturers might have to pay the leagues to advertise the balls. | ||
|
FrostOtter
United States537 Posts
| ||
| ||
