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On October 30 2010 11:23 Boundless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 11:07 EleanorRIgby wrote:wow so much top terrans have switched or are thinking of switching  make hunter seeker missile not totally useless plz It's definitely not useless. It's very, very, very effective against mutalisks and banelings. In fact, I've seen very high level Terrans win games against Zerg by only using Marines and Ravens. That seems really weak against Banes at face value, but consider this: The Banelings are now engaging you OFF the creep (since you have Ravens to control creep), so you can HSM them very very easily. Plus, the Ravens can make PDD's that defend the Marines from muta attacks while they are fighting roach/ling/hydra etc on the ground.
HSM forces banelings/mutas to retreat briefly while the zerg player selects the missile target and micro's them away from the pack?
and you're a raven (200 gas) down because it doesn't have energy left.
HSM is very similar to neural parasite at the moment, it's such an extreme niche spell that isn't even worth the research cost.
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there is very little imbalance in the game right now that cant be overcome with sheer skill and improving ones own game. wasnt there just a post about this by a MOD? (rhetorical.)
regarding boxer- he just wants it easier to win tournaments. however, he said if terran is nerfed again he will switch, not if terran stays the same.
the game is pretty balanced right now. maybe a tweak here or a tweak there in a little while after the dust settles from this patch but it is nothing like it was before. then again, boxer and nada are both S class after switching over somewhat late from broodwar. nexgenius is on another level as protoss and the zergs are coming around playing solid mechanical play that they had to pick up fast during previous patches to contend. i dont see the big deal right now. there are no glaring imbalances. its sad that there are still so many 45 apm terrans high on the ladder but that will change as the game evolves over the next year. i have a feeling many of those 45 apm terrans are in this thread complaining.
anyone who followed broodwar for years (probably very few in this thread) will know that there are race fluctuations naturally even without the game being patched. this is sometimes due to maps, sometimes due to top players emerging that are skillwise just better than the others and push the envelope forward even more. you really cant complain with 4 terrans in the final 8. sure there were more terrans to start but you would then need to break down every individual matchup along the way and maybe there were a bunch of terrans that just got systematically dismantled and no balance discussions would even effect those games.
look for solutions. zergs problems were, originally, far different than terrans so called problems now. also, you are listening to boxer who is known for terrible late game macro by today's bw/sc2 progaming standards. of course he wants super uber harass early game, thats how he made his name.
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people underestimate the importance of confidence and composure when playing in these tournaments.
clyde can win fruitdealer 99 times out of a hundred in practice games, but if he bottles it when under pressure then fruitdealer will win regardless of any subtle imbalances in the game.
the imbalance is subtle, atm you can't say zerg is OP against terran because noone can predict how the general strategies will evolve over the next few weeks.
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wow, there are 4 terrans in quarters and one toss, there was no toss in semis last season.
and a terran is complaining? i mean, he´s still "new" to the game, though he is a great player.
but at any means. terran is not the one that should complain.
what i find pretty strange, is that zergs say, protoss is sooooo strong and terrans say protoss is soooooo strong. but suprisingly protoss isnt doing well at all in gsl, also not in ladder, be it korean, global, or especially not in europe (17 toss out of top 100 is not op compared to over 40 terrans last time i checked)
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^ I agree with the above.
Besides, we all know boxer wouldn't switch, its just like when FD raged on a forum and said he would play Terran.
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I think the game is pretty close to balanced at this point, which means if Terran gets nerfed again they'll be UP. I don't think there's anything that controversial about the statement
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On October 31 2010 00:50 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 00:38 zomgad wrote:
gotta love the zerg players bitching on boxer while all their Z heroes are like 10x times more whinny and sad, look on fruitdealer claiming to change race few days before winning gsl, idra or dimaga are whining from the very beginning of beta,
boxer said something so its probably true (btw nada also claimed in interview that nerfs to T and buffing zerg in recent patch is too much) this two are probably most accomplishd progamers in history of starcraft (atm also top players in sc2) and what they say has alot more weight than analysis .from bronze players so dont come here with spreedsheet and tell how much they suck and zergs are more skilled. I love the, boxer said something so it's true argument. Btw, those "zerg players" have been playing SC2 a lot longer then boxer. SC1 =/= SC2
1st its not only boxer saying that, 2nd yes being an accomplished bw progamer makes u good in sc2, look at loner hes playing from the very beginning of beta and still Boxer outplayed him in every aspect (micro/macro/build wise) in recent gsl matches, also mvp showed us probably best tvz matches ever and no maka or ensnare playing alot longer than him came even close to this what we have seen in mvp vs zenio. im sure that if flash and jeadong switched to sc2 they would be best within 2 months.
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Yeah playing random is always useful when starting the game; helps u understand several things from all races. But of course is not that easy to master all of them so he might wanna stick to Terran once again cuz HEs THE EMPEROR.
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oh my god if boxer switches im gonna be so angry and sad
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How far our opinion of the Emperor has fallen in Sc2 it seems... I do admit that right now it is too early to actually be totally sure of how well people can play, but in most of the streams I have watched, Terran really need to find some way to counter 15+ banelings right. Their land army dissapears in a instant to that. The collossus also melts the bio of Terran too. Of course spreading the army out like Nada does is a brilliant way of playing (relying a bit on the fact the opponent doesn't rush the Terran while positioning), but it does seem tough for Terran right now to expand beyond two base based on the other race's map control.
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On October 30 2010 11:10 Choirdrunk wrote:
Also, please try and remember, Boxer isn't IdrA or Artosis. He hasn't been whining about balance for 8 years straight. If he's complaining, it's not because he plays terran. It's because he thinks there is a problem. So, even if you disagree with him, know that he's speaking with a reservation and well of knowledge that is uncharacteristic for even a pro-gamer.
<3. Love the way you put that and completely agree. If BoxeR is saying something is broken, something is broken. Hail Lim.
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On October 31 2010 01:29 EffeCt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 11:10 Choirdrunk wrote:
Also, please try and remember, Boxer isn't IdrA or Artosis. He hasn't been whining about balance for 8 years straight. If he's complaining, it's not because he plays terran. It's because he thinks there is a problem. So, even if you disagree with him, know that he's speaking with a reservation and well of knowledge that is uncharacteristic for even a pro-gamer. <3. Love the way you put that and completely agree. If BoxeR is saying something is broken, something is broken. Hail Lim.
Late game TvZ is unwinnable when both players are equally skilled and the Terran player doesn't have an advantage. It's not even imbalance, it's broken. Instant tech switches + 7 production facility's equal 1 hatchery....
what i find pretty strange, is that zergs say, protoss is sooooo strong and terrans say protoss is soooooo strong. but suprisingly protoss isnt doing well at all in gsl, also not in ladder, be it korean, global, or especially not in europe (17 toss out of top 100 is not op compared to over 40 terrans last time i checked)
That's because in general protoss players just sucked lol, look at Broodwar.
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On October 31 2010 01:29 EffeCt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 11:10 Choirdrunk wrote:
Also, please try and remember, Boxer isn't IdrA or Artosis. He hasn't been whining about balance for 8 years straight. If he's complaining, it's not because he plays terran. It's because he thinks there is a problem. So, even if you disagree with him, know that he's speaking with a reservation and well of knowledge that is uncharacteristic for even a pro-gamer. <3. Love the way you put that and completely agree. If BoxeR is saying something is broken, something is broken. Hail Lim.
Yup, Boxer is the arbiter of starcraft, he speaks truly and objectively with no personal bias! Oh wait, hes in the round of 8 with 87 K on the line, yaaaaaa I kinda dont think hes completely capable of being objective ATM.
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On October 31 2010 01:37 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 01:29 EffeCt wrote:On October 30 2010 11:10 Choirdrunk wrote:
Also, please try and remember, Boxer isn't IdrA or Artosis. He hasn't been whining about balance for 8 years straight. If he's complaining, it's not because he plays terran. It's because he thinks there is a problem. So, even if you disagree with him, know that he's speaking with a reservation and well of knowledge that is uncharacteristic for even a pro-gamer. <3. Love the way you put that and completely agree. If BoxeR is saying something is broken, something is broken. Hail Lim. Late game TvZ is unwinnable when both players are equally skilled and the Terran player doesn't have an advantage. It's not even imbalance, it's broken. Instant tech switches + 7 production facility's every hatchery.... Show nested quote +what i find pretty strange, is that zergs say, protoss is sooooo strong and terrans say protoss is soooooo strong. but suprisingly protoss isnt doing well at all in gsl, also not in ladder, be it korean, global, or especially not in europe (17 toss out of top 100 is not op compared to over 40 terrans last time i checked) That's because in general protoss players just sucked lol, look at Broodwar.
Lot more terrans are mechanical newbs than protoss in diamond right now.
Also, look at broodwar? What are you talking about?
Oh another 2010 join date making claims about BroodWar, that explains it.
<Insert claim about being here since the beginning just never registering and being A+ ICCUP>
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he says he would think about switching if they keep nerfing Terran but I don't think thats going to be an issue any time soon
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On October 31 2010 01:37 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 01:29 EffeCt wrote:On October 30 2010 11:10 Choirdrunk wrote:
Also, please try and remember, Boxer isn't IdrA or Artosis. He hasn't been whining about balance for 8 years straight. If he's complaining, it's not because he plays terran. It's because he thinks there is a problem. So, even if you disagree with him, know that he's speaking with a reservation and well of knowledge that is uncharacteristic for even a pro-gamer. <3. Love the way you put that and completely agree. If BoxeR is saying something is broken, something is broken. Hail Lim. Late game TvZ is unwinnable when both players are equally skilled and the Terran player doesn't have an advantage. It's not even imbalance, it's broken. Instant tech switches + 7 production facility's equal 1 hatchery.... Show nested quote +what i find pretty strange, is that zergs say, protoss is sooooo strong and terrans say protoss is soooooo strong. but suprisingly protoss isnt doing well at all in gsl, also not in ladder, be it korean, global, or especially not in europe (17 toss out of top 100 is not op compared to over 40 terrans last time i checked) That's because in general protoss players just sucked lol, look at Broodwar.
damn, i thought all you l2p brains would have died out. yes, you are right, the most famous players in korea were terrans, nada, boxer, and some zergs, i.e. july. bisu did well, but he also never really could touch flash or jaedong, but also there were a lot more terrans and zergs than protoss as far as i know. but in europe things looked totally different. there protoss was the dominant race, be it by winning tournament,. tsl for example, or just by mass of players.
also sc2 is a new game. and many new players be it ex-b-teamers that none ever heard about or wc3 pros are attending tournaments.
there are strong protoss players inside and outside of korea. inca genious tester, you cannot say, that those are bad in any way.
well, i hope terran will get nerfed to the ground, just that people like you finally get a feeling for this matter. dont get too full of yourself.
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Lot more terrans are mechanical newbs than protoss in diamond right now.
Also, look at broodwar? What are you talking about?
Protoss is easiest to get good at(see Idra in the MLG DC interview, I dont really agree) I face alot of protoss who just camp on 3 bases with 80 APM wich I can't break and as soon as they have storm+Amulet it's basically GG. Because warpgate's + amulet HT's give the terran no timings to atack anymore. 1800 diamond terran btw.
well, i hope terran will get nerfed to the ground, just that people like you finally get a feeling for this matter. dont get too full of yourself.
Yeah it's not like late game TvP/TvZ are broken, Luckily terran has an advantage early/mid game wich makes tvp fairly balanced(still stupid balance). I just hate how this game has become a race against the clock.
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On October 31 2010 01:47 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +Lot more terrans are mechanical newbs than protoss in diamond right now.
Also, look at broodwar? What are you talking about? Protoss is easiest to get good at(see Idra in the MLG DC interview, I dont really agree) I face alot of protoss who just camp on 3 bases with 80 APM wich I can't break and as soon as they have storm+Amulet it's basically GG. Because warpgate's + amulet HT's give the terran no timings to atack anymore. 1800 diamond terran btw.
1800 diamond terran that cant break a protoss at an point before or after they "Camp" on three bases.
he said it, not me folks.
something looks to be wrong there.
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1800 diamond terran that cant break a protoss at an point before or after they "Camp" on three bases.
I can but usually it's because of mistakes the protoss player makes. I mean take Foxer vs Sangho for example. The only reason foxer won game 2 is because of a screw up from Sangho.
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protoss is a good race but its also really easy too lose with it, there is no good scouting options until robo so very often you just straight up have too guess a strategy and if its the wrong one you lose, i think this is why we see so few protoss left in gsl but if they are played right (guess correct strategy) they are indeed very strong.
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EPT
