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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
The rule where portraits are awarded for laddering. This isn't laddering, it's purposefully tanking your MMR so low that you exclusively play other wintraders and then just alternate surrendering. People in WoW get banned for this sort of "creative use of game mechanics" bullshit all the time. | ||
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Wasteweiser
Canada522 Posts
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osten
Sweden316 Posts
I think it's pretty cool that people do this. I would think that of course everybody wants the other guy to leave but nobody wants to actually do it  It's a cool trust relationship | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
Don't get me wrong, I don't support their actions, but I think it's wrong to punish someone in such a manner when they aren't technically breaking the rules. It would be like banning players who used SCVS in bunkers to repair the bunkers. Blizard should just patch, or figure something out to solve the problem. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:23 osten wrote: If you whine about this consider for a second that you essentially whine about the beautiful pictures they get to have on their profile. Which is stuff that i'd expect to see on some kind of pony adventure forum. On this Very Serious Super Gosu forum, we only care about the arbitrary and inflated numerical values on our profile pages. People care about merit badges. Just because yours aren't actual graphical images, doesn't mean you don't display any. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:24 Karliath wrote: I hope they don't get banned for this (even if they might, looking at precedent). Don't get me wrong, I don't support their actions, but I think it's wrong to punish someone in such a manner when they aren't technically breaking the rules. It would be like banning players who used SCVS in bunkers to repair the bunkers. Blizard should just patch, or figure something out to solve the problem. I don't think they'd get banned, they'd probably get their achievements/portraits removed and their stats reset. Or Blizz might not do anything at all, it's not a huge deal by any means. It is, however, win trading, and win trading is cheating. | ||
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adwodon
United Kingdom592 Posts
On October 28 2010 17:56 Thunderfist wrote: Fact that they can make BNet to make them play only against each other. Means that it may evolve into FORCED wins. Where they dont even care about playing against each other, it will somewhat just start game and force "Surrender" from other player. This is clearly some way of cheating, and "Just because it doesnt affects me - i dont care" attitude is so ignorant until it starts to affect you and you will be first in line with whine. Ok well just to clear up, its not actually that complicated to make a client only connect to another client if thats what both clients want. Just make it so when you both click the find game button you cant actually find anyone else, perfectly reasonable thing to attempt. Changing the game so it forces someone unaware to surrender... that would require you to be on their machine, or at the very least, intercept their clients communication with blizz servers which would be for all essential purposes impossible, certainly not worth the effort required and not to mention the potential for law enforcement to get involved and Blizzard to sue your ass hard. These people wont affect your gaming experience. Christ every top 10 xbox live leader-board is made of boosters, while Blizz wont let it ever get that bad, is it really a surprise that there are some on this? They paid for the game anyway, as far as i'm concerned if they don't affect the experience of others whats the big deal? They aren't stealing ranks from you or ruining your games, just getting a pretty picture faster, using an incredibly tedious method. | ||
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Qwix
531 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:07 691175002 wrote: I don't particularly care, but it would be absolutely hilarious if blizzard took away the achievement destroying hundreds of hours of work that these people have ground to get their pictures. And because their tears would be so delicious, I support banning 100%. This Also coming from the WoW arena scene.. Wintrading is in every way a form of cheating. Even tho' they've bottom low they're still holding rank spots that is not thers and therby achieving thing they don't deserve. | ||
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actionbastrd
Congo598 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:27 kojinshugi wrote: On this Very Serious Super Gosu forum, we only care about the arbitrary and inflated numerical values on our profile pages. People care about merit badges. Just because yours aren't actual graphical images, doesn't mean you don't display any. People care about merit badges. That does sound reasonable... but can you really call a picture you get for winning games a merit badge? Dunno about you but 1k wins means nothing if your still rolling in the silver league.(other than not learning from your mistakes) But at least you have 1k wins? The avatars mean absolutly nothing. If you had to have a league/point requirement to get the high ones then maybe they would be a "Merit badge" to show off how good you are/ have become. At the moment the avatars really just mean you ladder a lot, and since its always a 50/50 win rate, everyone with 2k games will have their 1k picture which really means nothing. I dont see the merit in the avatars in this game. More on the win trading - let them get their avatars. If they ever find out how to use this to increase their ranking absurdly blizzard will take action, until then its just a picture on some random persons account that plays the bronze league. Id rather not do that and have fun really, less waste of time. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:34 adwodon wrote: They paid for the game anyway, as far as i'm concerned if they don't affect the experience of others whats the big deal? They aren't stealing ranks from you or ruining your games, just getting a pretty picture faster, using an incredibly tedious method. They cheapen the reward for people doing it legitimately. The Dark Voice portrait goes from "holy crap this guy has won 3000 games as random!" to "oh look it's a tard who spams win trades with his negative MMR". | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:39 actionbastrd wrote: Dunno about you but 1k wins means nothing if your still rolling in the silver league.(other than not learning from your mistakes) But at least you have 1k wins? The avatars mean absolutly nothing. Other people in the guy's silver league will probably care. He will most certainly care. Not everyone can be in the Grand Master league. People will set themselves goals they think they can attain. Until you place highly in a tournament, being diamond or ytterbium or grand wizard or whatever you are isn't very impressive either. Anyway, I've made my points. If you don't agree, whatever. Neither one of us works for Blizzard so meh. | ||
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Choirdrunk
Canada131 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:16 kojinshugi wrote: The rule where portraits are awarded for laddering. This isn't laddering, it's purposefully tanking your MMR so low that you exclusively play other wintraders and then just alternate surrendering. People in WoW get banned for this sort of "creative use of game mechanics" bullshit all the time. Ok, when someone asks what rule they are breaking a logical response is not "something that isn't a rule but I feel is important." Portraits are not rules. Please consult a dictionary if you are confused as to the difference. The *game* itself is multi-dimensional and, if someone's purpose in the game is to get 50,000 games under their belt as fast as possible, "accomplish" 30,000 losses or achieve any other metric for which an "award" is granted that you believe was obtained by means other than honest golly geese I'm gonna give it 100% effort every time, then let them have their fun. WHO CARES?! This impacts the people who play the game seriously 0%. The amount of logical leaps you need to make to argue that it impacts a serious gamer in any way are so ridiculous that, anyone smart enough to make all those leaps cogently, would also be smart enough not to waste their time making those leaps. Unlike in WoW, these players are not "creatively advancing." They are just being really weird. They are at the bottom of bronze. If they found a cheat to get them to diamond, I'd be with you. | ||
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osten
Sweden316 Posts
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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actionbastrd
Congo598 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:45 kojinshugi wrote: Other people in the guy's silver league will probably care. He will most certainly care. Not everyone can be in the Grand Master league. People will set themselves goals they think they can attain. Until you place highly in a tournament, being diamond or ytterbium or grand wizard or whatever you are isn't very impressive either. Anyway, I've made my points. If you don't agree, whatever. Neither one of us works for Blizzard so meh. What does tournament play, or my league have to do with this? :-/ I never once said anything about myself and how i am at this game. I just feel something with merit would involve a skill level. Like diamond is the top league, the top avatars should require a higher league. Maybe have silver league avatars, gold, plat, diamond and make them unlock when you reach a point value or when you get promoted. Would make the system a ton better than just spamming games to get everything. It would also prevent game traders/ bronze worker rush players. Win win? Either way i feel with the current set up the avatars dont mean much other than you ladder a ton. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:45 Choirdrunk wrote: Ok, when someone asks what rule they are breaking a logical response is not "something that isn't a rule but I feel is important." Portraits are not rules. Please consult a dictionary if you are confused as to the difference. The written rule is that Blizzard can ban you at any time for whatever reason. The precedent is WoW, where people were actioned for things like two-manning a boss by simply standing on two opposite sides of the room, making the AI run back and forth without hitting either. There's no rule that specifically prevents it. But it allows access to rewards with less effort than intended, by completing the challenge in a way that exploits oversights in game systems. Win 1000 games on the ladder with each race is a reward intended for people who do what the damn thing says to do. It doesn't say "custom games", because you could obviously win trade with a buddy there'. It specifically directs you to the ladder because it's intended as a reward for legitimately winning 4000 games, playing against real opponents. Purposefully tanking your MMR so you can do nothing but win trade on the ladder is cheating. End of story. If they win traded for Top 200, you'd be up in arms. Since they're win trading for shit you don't care about, you don't care. But it's the win trading that's against the rules, not what your ultimate goal in doing it is. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:55 actionbastrd wrote: What does tournament play, or my league have to do with this? :-/ I never once said anything about myself and how i am at this game. I just feel something with merit would involve a skill level. Like diamond is the top league, the top avatars should require a higher league. Merit is not a synonym for skill. Dig 1000 ditches is an achievement, being innately better at digging ditches isn't. The majority of SC2 players will never reach diamond, let alone anything above it. Playing better isn't a sustainable metric for achievements, because people have skill caps that they reach relatively quickly. Playing more than the other guy, that's something anyone can do with enough persistence. Turning that from "win a lot of games" to "hit Surrender a bunch of times" makes it pointless, removing incentive from a very large portion of the SC2 playerbase. EDIT: amazing analogy incoming: It's like getting a gold watch when you retire. Sure, raises and promotions would be better, but if you work the same job adequately for 40 years, you get a gold watch. This is like some guy forging his paperwork so HR thinks he's worked there for 40 years, when he actually only worked there for 6 months. He gets a gold watch just same. One of you deserved it. The other one cheated. | ||
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Akash
Romania113 Posts
That will at least give an ideea to ppl who go "really nice pic man....i guess ur really imba for having the Predator icon". It wont solve the win trading buisness,but at least will give ppl an ideea if that player got his wins in bronze or in Diamond. | ||
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actionbastrd
Congo598 Posts
On October 28 2010 19:06 kojinshugi wrote: Merit is not a synonym for skill. Dig 1000 ditches is an achievement, being innately better at digging ditches isn't. The majority of SC2 players will never reach diamond, let alone anything above it. Playing better isn't a sustainable metric for achievements, because people have skill caps that they reach relatively quickly. Playing more than the other guy, that's something anyone can do with enough persistence. Turning that from "win a lot of games" to "hit Surrender a bunch of times" makes it pointless, removing incentive from a very large portion of the SC2 playerbase. i feel like you read half my posts. i added a different way to make things work. Avatars for inside each league, etc. as i said in my last post below. + Show Spoiler + Maybe have silver league avatars, gold, plat, diamond and make them unlock when you reach a point value or when you get promoted. Would make the system a ton better than just spamming games to get everything. It would also prevent game traders/ bronze worker rush players. Win win? Either way i feel with the current set up the avatars dont mean much other than you ladder a ton. That would stop game traders / worker rush players and reward improvement. Digging 1k ditches, and not improving on your technique may be a accomplishment but the person who digs 1k ditches and improves technique should gets more from his experience, as should players in sc2. If we reward for improvement and not mass games, that is still giving people the goal to keep playing for avatars, while improving themselves and would add so much more to what these avatars mean. At the moment, it means little. | ||
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Sicktor
5 Posts
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