|
On October 15 2010 15:35 Perscienter wrote:
Btw.
Sniper rounds and strike cannons can be cast upon own units. Feedback and corruption can't.
Feedback does apply to pdds, but not to other structures. Psionic storm doesn't effect pdds.
Auto turrets can be built on creep.
Corruption has an initial cooldown, unlike the strike cannon, blink and charge.
Blizzard is so confused.
Thank god blizzard is using all the tools at their disposal rather than saying "f balance" and just making everything consistent enough for these idiots to understand.
Also, LOL at feedback being bad. Feedback is one of the best skills in the game.
|
On October 15 2010 09:44 wrgrbl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 09:43 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:On October 15 2010 09:41 kain279 wrote:
this sucks, I loved void rays. This is fantastic, I hated void rays. This is alright; I was ambivalent about void rays.
I love this post.
Gotta say I'm in favor of the change... it barely affects 1v1 games since voids were so rarely made anyway, and as for teams... who cares about team games. In general though I'm not in favor of super effective base-sniping units, it's just bad for gameplay. Now the void ray is something you might actually want to bring along with your army to fight.... imagine that.
|
|
|
On October 15 2010 15:35 Perscienter wrote:
Btw.
Sniper rounds and strike cannons can be cast upon own units. Feedback and corruption can't.
Feedback does apply to pdds, but not to other structures. Psionic storm doesn't effect pdds.
Auto turrets can be built on creep.
Corruption has an initial cooldown, unlike the strike cannon, blink and charge.
Blizzard is so confused.
1.because sniper rounds and 250mm can be used against neutral units as well, which explains why. where feedback and corruption have no purpose there.
2.because corruption doesnt require a research and all the others do
3.PDD functions exactly like all other structures, (receive the +2 armor upgrade, cannot be stormed, etc), the feedback-able property is just there for the balance's sake.
blizzard isn't confused, they know what they are doing. You seem confused though.
|
On October 15 2010 15:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --?
Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now.
Thor's strike cannons ignore the hardened shield. With the upgrade, they obliterate the immortals.
Thors own interceptors.
Thors have a higher range than colossi.
Void rays were supposed to be the hard counter vs. them but aren't anymore. Just repair the thors.
The thor had a role as a support against mutalisks, for some drops and so on, but the old thor didn't fit in Blizzard's every unit must always be viable and not particularly strong scheme.
|
wonder why corruption starts with a delay. ability sucks (relatively)
|
On October 15 2010 15:47 Perscienter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --?
Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now. Thor's strike cannons ignore the hardened shield. With the upgrade, they obliterate the immortals. Thors own interceptors. Thors have a higher range than colossi. Void rays were supposed to be the hard counter vs. them but aren't anymore. Just repair the thors. The thor had a role as a support against mutalisks, for some drops and so on, but the old thor didn't fit in Blizzard's every unit must always be viable and not particularly strong scheme.
thors have longer range than colossi? really?
|
Meh, its so easy to ignore the drive of my post and just say "hurr durr feedback is not bad"
I'm not saying Feedback is a bad spell per se, its just that more and more units are being removed from its potential targets making it more and more situational.
Also this game is not BW, I'm not even worried about late game counters, more about the early game timing pushes that currently plague the game. Sure carriers counter thor, but the timing to get an early thor and do an SCV all in push with marines marauders is much much harder. Toss already has a rough time trying to reach quick high temps, it doesnt need more problems added to it.
|
On October 15 2010 15:49 ToEiGht wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:47 Perscienter wrote:On October 15 2010 15:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --?
Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now. Thor's strike cannons ignore the hardened shield. With the upgrade, they obliterate the immortals. Thors own interceptors. Thors have a higher range than colossi. Void rays were supposed to be the hard counter vs. them but aren't anymore. Just repair the thors. The thor had a role as a support against mutalisks, for some drops and so on, but the old thor didn't fit in Blizzard's every unit must always be viable and not particularly strong scheme. thors have longer range than colossi? really?
Thors are allowed to use their aa attack against colossi.
|
i've been trying to work out a p build that incorporates void rays into the first push, and the initial damage buff might make this nicer. I've never been that much of a fan of sending them into the base anyway.
not a huge fan of the supply depot->rax deal. I played a game against zerg earlier, figured that i would go rax first to send a few marines at his expo, but little did i know that rax first is not allowed by blizz anymore.
|
On October 15 2010 15:47 Perscienter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --?
Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now. Thor's strike cannons ignore the hardened shield. With the upgrade, they obliterate the immortals. Thors own interceptors. Thors have a higher range than colossi. Void rays were supposed to be the hard counter vs. them but aren't anymore. Just repair the thors. The thor had a role as a support against mutalisks, for some drops and so on, but the old thor didn't fit in Blizzard's every unit must always be viable and not particularly strong scheme.
lol so you expect to see many thors TvP at GSL2?
thors are terrible vs carriers- although im not sure if such an encounter would ever be seen past gold league.
thors have 7 range, collosus have 8 with range.
void rays were supposed to be hard counter thor? did u chat with browder about this? thors are still terrible against void ray.
listen to jinro or make coherent arguments plz
|
Now just make 1 banshee < 1 queen and zerg is looking fine.
|
Man you guys really want Terran to lame as hell don't you.
|
This is a pretty bad patch imo.. even if you disregard balance for now, it forces people to play an even more limited less creative style =/
As a protoss player, I felt Void Rays did honestly need a maximum damage nerf when charged up. Before they were indeed undoubtedly kinda gimmicky, but without anything else to compensate the nerf, they really serve no purpose anymore. People can say that they got a 50% increase (or whatever % it is) at level 1, yeah, but when its coming from such a low base, 50% doesn't really mean much. Would you really rather invest in a stargate & a voidray to help hold off an early push?
Furthermore, as usual Blizzard seems to like to double nerf something as opposed to 1 at a time - the speed upgrade is almost completely useless now. I understand this could be more of a team game change, still, can't agree with it from a 1v1 perspective. Personally, I'm ok with the damage nerf if they give VR's back their range 7 and revert back the speed upgrade nerf. That way, it can serve at least as a viable harass unit in the later stages of the game with their now increased L1 damage output. As of now, protoss really has no legit harassing methods aside from maybe blink stalkers.
In my opinion, warp prism desperately needs some kind of boost to encourage more creative plays and increase protoss options. While by no means an all-in unit, it just doesn't seem like its worth investing into most of the time. Its too slow (without speed upgrade) and too fragile, medivacs people will always get because of the potent MMM, and obviously there will always be overlords being produced for zerg so a doomsday drop is a low risk/cost investment option. Speaking of warp prism speed upgrade.. seriously, I have never ever seen anybody research it in all the replays I have ever watched. Its a pity that its just way too far into the tech tree to get - could really help open up protoss to more unique/fun ways to play (without changing the balance of the game too much I think). Maybe put it in as a cybernetics core research or something?
Lastly, I used to joke with my friends that Blizzard won't touch marauders/banshees because the new sc2 Razer products are named after them - but now I'm really beginning to think that they would rather alter everything around it than to make any direct changes to them. Seriously, has anyone ever complained buildings were being sniped too fast when NOT involving the marauder? Like some people have mentioned already, I have no idea why buildings are not a different armor class.
Now I personally don't have too much problems with banshees myself, I'm not calling for a nerf on them - but rather, I would very much appreciate it if protoss has some other ways to see cloaked units aside from observers. Terrans has so many options when dealing against cloaked stuff in a big fight be it ravens/scans/emp's - but protoss? Its pretty retarded that you have to retreat your whole army when against banshees/dts if your observer gets sniped (which most good players can do).
|
On October 15 2010 15:53 exog wrote:
Now just make 1 banshee < 1 queen and zerg is looking fine.
queens in general just fall way to fast and they take forever to build, a hp buff will be so good.
|
Patch 1.1.3 notes:
- Reaper Upgrade requires Fusion Core
- Medivac Speed reduced to 0.525
- Medivac Acceleration reduced to -2.32
- Hatchery Life increased to 10,000
- Nexus Energy increased to 15,000
|
On October 15 2010 15:47 ToEiGht wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:35 Perscienter wrote:
Btw.
Sniper rounds and strike cannons can be cast upon own units. Feedback and corruption can't.
Feedback does apply to pdds, but not to other structures. Psionic storm doesn't effect pdds.
Auto turrets can be built on creep.
Corruption has an initial cooldown, unlike the strike cannon, blink and charge.
Blizzard is so confused. 1.because sniper rounds and 250mm can be used against neutral units as well, which explains why. where feedback and corruption have no purpose there. 2.because corruption doesnt require a research and all the others do 3.PDD functions exactly like all other structures, (receive the +2 armor upgrade, cannot be stormed, etc), the feedback-able property is just there for the balance's sake. blizzard isn't confused, they know what they are doing. You seem confused though.
1. Why is it not allowed to use corruption on neutral units?
2. Fighter mode, jumppacks and the baneling explosion also don't require research.
3. It's either a unit or a structure. Feedback should effect structures or should not.
|
On October 15 2010 15:58 gavss wrote:
Patch 1.1.3 notes:
- Reaper Upgrade requires Fusion Core
- Medivac Speed reduced to 0.525
- Medivac Acceleration reduced to -2.32
- Hatchery Life increased to 10,000
- Nexus Energy increased to 15,000
-Barracks requires 2 supply depots.
|
Wow oh my god, Thor is going to be the new siege tank in TvP  I was so surprised when I realized that Thor eats Immortals for breakfast with 250mm canon and a little bunch of marines (no feedback is HUGE)... this will definately need a lot of time to figure out how to beat strategies like those.
Though except that its a great patch, love that there finally is a patch without any major protoss nerf (I consider the fungal growth thing rather a bug than a feature and the Void Ray thing needs a test first) and the Nexus shield increase is great, Nexus sniping from T and even Z was so disturbing. Roach range 4 was expected, so more roach pushes incoming but thats good for the variety of Zerg. Building life increase is reasonable and not too major (since it affects only tech structures). The Rax requires depo thing is... well I think if we look honestly at Terran (for instance look at that Random guy posted a few days ago), they have a crapton of builds and openers including a giant ammount of timing pushes where each requires a really fine tuned and well scouted with different units to counter it as a Protoss or Zerg player. In addition to that this was doubled by the ammount of 10rax reaper/rine/bunker/marauder rushes and I think Terran needs to discover the late game for themselves by increasing their mobility and strength. I think there are still ways to bunker rush or early agression since the metagame drifts towards fast expansions at this very moment, so no big deal to me.
|
On October 15 2010 15:53 _Darwin_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:47 Perscienter wrote:On October 15 2010 15:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --?
Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now. Thor's strike cannons ignore the hardened shield. With the upgrade, they obliterate the immortals. Thors own interceptors. Thors have a higher range than colossi. Void rays were supposed to be the hard counter vs. them but aren't anymore. Just repair the thors. The thor had a role as a support against mutalisks, for some drops and so on, but the old thor didn't fit in Blizzard's every unit must always be viable and not particularly strong scheme. lol so you expect to see many thors TvP at GSL2? thors are terrible vs carriers- although im not sure if such an encounter would ever be seen past gold league. thors have 7 range, collosus have 8 with range. void rays were supposed to be hard counter vs void ray? did u chat with browder about this? thors are still terrible against void ray. listen to jinro or make coherent arguments plz
If GSL1 was any indicator, all top Ps were having a rough time against T. That matchup didnt require any more tinkering, especially in favor of T. There is no need to fix something that isnt broke in the first place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
