|
On October 15 2010 14:13 Perscienter wrote:
I now try to understand the concept behind spells and abilities. Blizzard doesn't distinguish betweem them and calls everything an ability. There are energy-based abilities and non-energy-based abilities.
Currently the thor's cannon and the corruptor's corruption don't consume energy. The yamato cannon does. The phoenixes graviton beam also.
Casted spells are supposed to consume energy. The exceptions should be nuke, stim and toggling abilities like burrow, assault and fighter mode, phasing and transport mode, blink etc.
It is perfectly normal that even massable combat and support units like phoenixes, sentries and medivacs possess energy. That's why I really don't like this change. It creates inconsistencies. Feedback wasn't used regularly on corruptors anyway.
It also removes a counter from the game.
Yeah, its BS some are called ability and some are called spells, or non energy based abilities- because id rather have consistency in the names than balance.
As a zerg i embrace this patch, but the depot before barracks might be a bit overkill? not only for reapers but even for quick marine/marauder pressure (cough DAVIT cough)
|
On October 15 2010 14:48 Malinor wrote:Really disagree with the depot for barracks requirement though, makes terran quiet boring for the first 2-3 minutes, you basically can not do anything else but 12 rax.
Ensuring that players remained entertained throughout the first 3 minutes of the match is a valid balance concern amirite.
|
I don´t really see the point of void rays now because the nerf to them and the nerf to a fleet beacon upgrade (so expensive and time consuming) comes out of nowhere.
Also buffing builing hp only for the nexus seems weird, why not raise it for the tech structures too? 4 marauder drop kill the robo bay also in 5 secs or something.
But we will see how the patch really works out but weird to nerf P again.
|
I think they should have just made it so that
- Feedback ability removed from high templars.
Seriously, whats the point of having that skill anyway? A shitty, unbelievably situational spell that can be used on Medivacs (which are low on energy 99.99% of the time, except when made only for drops) and Ghosts (yeah good luck feedbacking a cloaked ghost in the middle of a terran ball), and the ghost just gets of an AOE EMP before you can get into feedback range anyway.
And void rays, are not worth the cost anymore. Seriously, 250 minerals 150 gas on an absolutely shitty air unit, which does a max of 16 damage? Yeah GJ blizzard. Fucking terran has insane units like hellions which wreak absolute havoc on mineral lines once blue flame is done and cloaked banshees (flying DTs lol), and the only dangerous , harass capable unit in the toss arsenal has been totally nerfed into oblivion.
Blizzard is thinking with their asses.
|
Ability, spell, mana, wtv ever you call it idc, thors and corrupters should still have energy to burn.
|
On October 15 2010 14:57 ZaaaaaM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 14:13 Perscienter wrote:
I now try to understand the concept behind spells and abilities. Blizzard doesn't distinguish betweem them and calls everything an ability. There are energy-based abilities and non-energy-based abilities.
Currently the thor's cannon and the corruptor's corruption don't consume energy. The yamato cannon does. The phoenixes graviton beam also.
Casted spells are supposed to consume energy. The exceptions should be nuke, stim and toggling abilities like burrow, assault and fighter mode, phasing and transport mode, blink etc.
It is perfectly normal that even massable combat and support units like phoenixes, sentries and medivacs possess energy. That's why I really don't like this change. It creates inconsistencies. Feedback wasn't used regularly on corruptors anyway.
It also removes a counter from the game. Yeah, its BS some are called ability and some are called spells, or non energy based abilities- because id rather have consistency in the names than balance. As a zerg i embrace this patch, but the depot before barracks might be a bit overkill? not only for reapers but even for quick marine/marauder pressure (cough DAVIT cough)
it's mostly because of Feedback... Thors and corruptors had trouble getting rid of their energy and its becoming a liability against High temps, i thought we all knew that
|
Depot before Racks?
No Cheese?
DAVIT does not like this.
|
On October 15 2010 15:02 ToEiGht wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 14:57 ZaaaaaM wrote:On October 15 2010 14:13 Perscienter wrote:
I now try to understand the concept behind spells and abilities. Blizzard doesn't distinguish betweem them and calls everything an ability. There are energy-based abilities and non-energy-based abilities.
Currently the thor's cannon and the corruptor's corruption don't consume energy. The yamato cannon does. The phoenixes graviton beam also.
Casted spells are supposed to consume energy. The exceptions should be nuke, stim and toggling abilities like burrow, assault and fighter mode, phasing and transport mode, blink etc.
It is perfectly normal that even massable combat and support units like phoenixes, sentries and medivacs possess energy. That's why I really don't like this change. It creates inconsistencies. Feedback wasn't used regularly on corruptors anyway.
It also removes a counter from the game. Yeah, its BS some are called ability and some are called spells, or non energy based abilities- because id rather have consistency in the names than balance. As a zerg i embrace this patch, but the depot before barracks might be a bit overkill? not only for reapers but even for quick marine/marauder pressure (cough DAVIT cough) it's mostly because of Feedback... Thors and corruptors had trouble getting rid of their energy and its becoming a liability against High temps, i thought we all knew that
Yeah god forbid if Terran units have a counter. We wouldnt really want that would we? Its OK if collossi are countered and raped by vikings, and immortals are screwed over by ghosts, but Thors shouldnt have counters!!11oneone.
|
On October 15 2010 15:02 Piledriver wrote:
Seriously, whats the point of having that skill anyway? A shitty, unbelievably situational spell that can be used on Medivacs (which are low on energy 99.99% of the time, except when made only for drops) and Ghosts (yeah good luck feedbacking a cloaked ghost in the middle of a terran ball), and the ghost just gets of an AOE EMP before you can get into feedback range anyway.
Er...
Banshees?
BCs?
Infestors?
Seriously, it's a great skill. Feedback used to never be used on Corruptors anyway, and Thors were rarely seen in PvT because they already have a bunch of other issues.
|
On October 15 2010 02:56 Struan wrote:
Void Ray
-Damage level 1 increased from 5 to 6 (+4 armored).
-Damage level 2 decreased from 10 (+15 armored) to 8 (+8 armored).
-Flux Vanes speed upgrade bonus decreased from 1.125 to 0.703.
oh blizzard why did you have to be so stubborn to do this only 3 months after release when it was clear void ray was retarded back in the beta.
|
On October 15 2010 14:59 SoFFacet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 14:48 Malinor wrote:Really disagree with the depot for barracks requirement though, makes terran quiet boring for the first 2-3 minutes, you basically can not do anything else but 12 rax. Ensuring that players remained entertained throughout the first 3 minutes of the match is a valid balance concern amirite.
It is. It's getting to the point where they could just start the game with 8-9 workers and 100 minerals and it wouldn't really make any difference, except you don't have to waste those few early minutes every game.
|
On October 15 2010 13:39 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 13:31 tdt wrote:On October 15 2010 13:11 Yaotzin wrote:
That's mostly a map fail. Small maps results in low-tech games. Obviously when most games are <15mins you're not gonna see carriers and motherships and whatnot. I watch a lot of games. More than I play even. Seen all day9's HD Psy and Huskys videos are rarely seen carriers or MS. See ultras and battleships much more because they have more usefulness. I play Zerg and get Ulttra all the time and try to every time. Maps are a problem tho with too many chokes and too easy to wall off IMO. I always regard Ultras same level as Colossi and Thors. MS, Carriers, Broodlords and BCs are a bit higher. But all of them suck against Corruptors and Vikings ( not vs Voidrays anymore). Very easy to get counters to them. And I wanna point out that handful of marines totally shut down Carriers. I still believe that marines are too good for their cost, they counter too much stuff. Try to test 20 stimmed marines vs 10 speedlots. Marines win without micro. And speedlots are melee and do not shoot air, LoL.
It takes a little over 20 but the higher you get the more lopsided it is. I agree though, for a unit that costs no gas and can shoot air they do too much dps per cost.
|
On October 15 2010 15:07 archon256 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:02 Piledriver wrote:
Seriously, whats the point of having that skill anyway? A shitty, unbelievably situational spell that can be used on Medivacs (which are low on energy 99.99% of the time, except when made only for drops) and Ghosts (yeah good luck feedbacking a cloaked ghost in the middle of a terran ball), and the ghost just gets of an AOE EMP before you can get into feedback range anyway.
Er... Banshees? BCs? Infestors? Seriously, it's a great skill. Feedback used to never be used on Corruptors anyway, and Thors were rarely seen in PvT because they already have a bunch of other issues.
Feedback is useless vs Banshees because cloak provides a really really efficient way to get rid of their energy, super fast, and BCs are usually rushed versus P with a few scvs repairing, and its really hard to get HTs at that timing.
Theoretically there are a lot of possible things, but practically none of those are quiet viable at the appropriate timings.
|
On October 15 2010 15:07 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:02 ToEiGht wrote:On October 15 2010 14:57 ZaaaaaM wrote:On October 15 2010 14:13 Perscienter wrote:
I now try to understand the concept behind spells and abilities. Blizzard doesn't distinguish betweem them and calls everything an ability. There are energy-based abilities and non-energy-based abilities.
Currently the thor's cannon and the corruptor's corruption don't consume energy. The yamato cannon does. The phoenixes graviton beam also.
Casted spells are supposed to consume energy. The exceptions should be nuke, stim and toggling abilities like burrow, assault and fighter mode, phasing and transport mode, blink etc.
It is perfectly normal that even massable combat and support units like phoenixes, sentries and medivacs possess energy. That's why I really don't like this change. It creates inconsistencies. Feedback wasn't used regularly on corruptors anyway.
It also removes a counter from the game. Yeah, its BS some are called ability and some are called spells, or non energy based abilities- because id rather have consistency in the names than balance. As a zerg i embrace this patch, but the depot before barracks might be a bit overkill? not only for reapers but even for quick marine/marauder pressure (cough DAVIT cough) it's mostly because of Feedback... Thors and corruptors had trouble getting rid of their energy and its becoming a liability against High temps, i thought we all knew that Yeah god forbid if Terran units have a counter. We wouldnt really want that would we? Its OK if collossi are countered and raped by vikings, and immortals are screwed over by ghosts, but Thors shouldnt have counters!!11oneone.
Thors already have a lot of proper counters, so stop crying and l2p
|
Feedback is useless vs Banshees because cloak provides a really really efficient way to get rid of their energy, super fast, and BCs are usually rushed versus P with a few scvs repairing, and its really hard to get HTs at that timing.
So what you're saying is that Blizzard should just arbitrarily give random units weakness to Feedback.
Corruptors had energy because they had a really, really stupid ability that used energy. Thors had energy because they had a semi-useful ability that used energy, but one that is rarely researched. In both cases, what you have is a unit that has this weakness, but no real strength.
Banshees use energy. Energy makes them better. Energy does not make Corruptors better. Energy does not make Thors better. Energy is almost a complete liability with both of these units.
|
Even roaches is pretty awesome unit,but increasing they range to 4 isnt gonna do that much :o
well maybe in early game it's pretty awesome
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On October 15 2010 15:02 Piledriver wrote:
I think they should have just made it so that
- Feedback ability removed from high templars.
Seriously, whats the point of having that skill anyway? A shitty, unbelievably situational spell that can be used on Medivacs (which are low on energy 99.99% of the time, except when made only for drops) and Ghosts (yeah good luck feedbacking a cloaked ghost in the middle of a terran ball), and the ghost just gets of an AOE EMP before you can get into feedback range anyway.
And void rays, are not worth the cost anymore. Seriously, 250 minerals 150 gas on an absolutely shitty air unit, which does a max of 16 damage? Yeah GJ blizzard. Fucking terran has insane units like hellions which wreak absolute havoc on mineral lines once blue flame is done and cloaked banshees (flying DTs lol), and the only dangerous , harass capable unit in the toss arsenal has been totally nerfed into oblivion.
Blizzard is thinking with their asses.
Feedback is one of the sickest spells in the game, but hey if you want to remove it Im not gonna complain, it will be nice to not ever lose my 200 mana ghosts, ravens, BCs or that dropship packed with 8 units that just flew above your base with full mana.
On October 15 2010 15:07 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:02 ToEiGht wrote:On October 15 2010 14:57 ZaaaaaM wrote:On October 15 2010 14:13 Perscienter wrote:
I now try to understand the concept behind spells and abilities. Blizzard doesn't distinguish betweem them and calls everything an ability. There are energy-based abilities and non-energy-based abilities.
Currently the thor's cannon and the corruptor's corruption don't consume energy. The yamato cannon does. The phoenixes graviton beam also.
Casted spells are supposed to consume energy. The exceptions should be nuke, stim and toggling abilities like burrow, assault and fighter mode, phasing and transport mode, blink etc.
It is perfectly normal that even massable combat and support units like phoenixes, sentries and medivacs possess energy. That's why I really don't like this change. It creates inconsistencies. Feedback wasn't used regularly on corruptors anyway.
It also removes a counter from the game. Yeah, its BS some are called ability and some are called spells, or non energy based abilities- because id rather have consistency in the names than balance. As a zerg i embrace this patch, but the depot before barracks might be a bit overkill? not only for reapers but even for quick marine/marauder pressure (cough DAVIT cough) it's mostly because of Feedback... Thors and corruptors had trouble getting rid of their energy and its becoming a liability against High temps, i thought we all knew that Yeah god forbid if Terran units have a counter. We wouldnt really want that would we? Its OK if collossi are countered and raped by vikings, and immortals are screwed over by ghosts, but Thors shouldnt have counters!!11oneone.
Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --?
Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now.
|
Btw.
Sniper rounds and strike cannons can be cast upon own units. Feedback and corruption can't.
Feedback does apply to pdds, but not to other structures. Psionic storm doesn't effect pdds.
Auto turrets can be built on creep.
Corruption has an initial cooldown, unlike the strike cannon, blink and charge.
Blizzard is so confused.
|
On October 15 2010 03:02 FabledIntegral wrote:
As a Zerg user,.....
I dislike Roach Range increase being standard, would rather see a 100/100 upgrade (available at hatchery tech fine).
I SMELL A TERRAN SPY IN OUR MIDST!!
GET EM BOYS!
I bowed down to the glorious Gods at Blizzard for giving us roach range! Will make reapers just a tad bit more manageable. Also, roach busts will be easier too! Fun fun roach coming up!
|
On October 15 2010 15:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:02 Piledriver wrote:
I think they should have just made it so that
- Feedback ability removed from high templars.
Seriously, whats the point of having that skill anyway? A shitty, unbelievably situational spell that can be used on Medivacs (which are low on energy 99.99% of the time, except when made only for drops) and Ghosts (yeah good luck feedbacking a cloaked ghost in the middle of a terran ball), and the ghost just gets of an AOE EMP before you can get into feedback range anyway.
And void rays, are not worth the cost anymore. Seriously, 250 minerals 150 gas on an absolutely shitty air unit, which does a max of 16 damage? Yeah GJ blizzard. Fucking terran has insane units like hellions which wreak absolute havoc on mineral lines once blue flame is done and cloaked banshees (flying DTs lol), and the only dangerous , harass capable unit in the toss arsenal has been totally nerfed into oblivion.
Blizzard is thinking with their asses.
Feedback is one of the sickest spells in the game, but hey if you want to remove it Im not gonna complain, it will be nice to not ever lose my 200 mana ghosts, ravens, BCs or that dropship packed with 8 units that just flew above your base with full mana. Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 15:07 Piledriver wrote:On October 15 2010 15:02 ToEiGht wrote:On October 15 2010 14:57 ZaaaaaM wrote:On October 15 2010 14:13 Perscienter wrote:
I now try to understand the concept behind spells and abilities. Blizzard doesn't distinguish betweem them and calls everything an ability. There are energy-based abilities and non-energy-based abilities.
Currently the thor's cannon and the corruptor's corruption don't consume energy. The yamato cannon does. The phoenixes graviton beam also.
Casted spells are supposed to consume energy. The exceptions should be nuke, stim and toggling abilities like burrow, assault and fighter mode, phasing and transport mode, blink etc.
It is perfectly normal that even massable combat and support units like phoenixes, sentries and medivacs possess energy. That's why I really don't like this change. It creates inconsistencies. Feedback wasn't used regularly on corruptors anyway.
It also removes a counter from the game. Yeah, its BS some are called ability and some are called spells, or non energy based abilities- because id rather have consistency in the names than balance. As a zerg i embrace this patch, but the depot before barracks might be a bit overkill? not only for reapers but even for quick marine/marauder pressure (cough DAVIT cough) it's mostly because of Feedback... Thors and corruptors had trouble getting rid of their energy and its becoming a liability against High temps, i thought we all knew that Yeah god forbid if Terran units have a counter. We wouldnt really want that would we? Its OK if collossi are countered and raped by vikings, and immortals are screwed over by ghosts, but Thors shouldnt have counters!!11oneone. Half the Protoss army hardcounters thors, why are you complaining --? Thors are TERRIBLE vs immoratls, TERRIBLE vs Carriers, AWFUL vs colossi (seriously, you wont even hit them unless the toss falls asleep), and used to be owned by Void Rays. The patch might have changed the last one tho, they might actually do a little bit better vs void rays now.
the new 250mm change might make the thors a little better against immortals but ya they are still pretty bad in TvP
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
