EPTPatch 1.1.2 Notes - Page 70
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eNbee
Belgium487 Posts
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HypertonicHydroponic
437 Posts
On October 15 2010 12:17 Sats wrote: This is a very good point, I didn't really think of it that way Actually, I don't see how this matters all that much, if a Mule only counts for about 3 more SCV's per Mule (and that's with constant Mule on the mineral line). That's not quite an overpowering recovery from delaying your economy due to cheese. Also, queens, and thus inject larva, become available to zerg soon after the early spawning pool in a 6 pool, does this not even things out, respectively? | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
Early queen really doesn't help because you just have no minerals at all. You can't even really afford the queen, let alone all the drones. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On October 15 2010 13:00 HypertonicHydroponic wrote: Actually, I don't see how this matters all that much, if a Mule only counts for about 3 more SCV's per Mule (and that's with constant Mule on the mineral line). That's not quite an overpowering recovery from delaying your economy due to cheese. Also, queens, and thus inject larva, become available to zerg soon after the early spawning pool in a 6 pool, does this not even things out, respectively? Not really, because zerg economy grows geometrically - going down to zero means you lose a LOT of time and need to recover. If I lose 5 drones, then I might be 10 drones behind after a couple minutes. With Terran, scvs are produced linearly and mules ensure you'll always be able to afford those constant SCVs. So if I lose 5 SCVs, then after a couple minutes I'm only 5 SCVs behind - unless I hit saturation, in which case I'm less than 5 behind, or even caught up. | ||
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vohne
Philippines197 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On October 15 2010 12:52 TedJustice wrote: DTs are great when the opponent doesn't have detection, (which happens more than you would think.) Carriers and motherships are great when you actually manage to get them. I wouldn't call that worthless function. They just all take so long to build. : < That's the problem, time. Same thing that makes reapers worthless. How many high lvl games you seen a guy with carriers or MS? 1/20? Game is usually over by then and if it's not they are easily fell by vikings, corruptors, and other units in small numbers. MS is most ridiculous since everything targets her since they can't see anything else to target. Either way IMO it's a fail when several units of a race are not used. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
On October 15 2010 13:06 tdt wrote: That's the problem, time. Same thing that makes reapers worthless. How many high lvl games you seen a guy with carriers or MS? 1/20? Game is usually over by then and if it's not they are easily fell by vikings, corruptors, and other units in small numbers. MS is most ridiculous since everything targets her since they can't see anything else to target. Either way IMO it's a fail when several units of a race are not used. I think now they're going to have to be used, personally. I can't see Protoss doing too well otherwise. DTs have a lot of potential, but that darned dark shrine tends to complicate things. But Carriers are going to have to start coming out when terran starts massing up thors, I think. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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IVN
534 Posts
On October 15 2010 13:11 Yaotzin wrote: That's mostly a map fail. Small maps results in low-tech games. Obviously when most games are <15mins you're not gonna see carriers and motherships and whatnot. I dont agree. Only the Robo tech is viable, and HTs in late game. The problem with Carriers or DTs is that they are suboptimal tech choices. They are bad even in PvP. If I can get a Colossus out in less time then the DT, why should I even consider the latter? DTs, Carrier and MS take simply too long compared to the other tech of the Protoss and compared to the comparable tech of the Terrans. (Zergs are a diff. story, since they are the "oddest" of the 3 races) | ||
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Somi
Pakistan123 Posts
On October 15 2010 03:33 phil.ipp wrote: i dont see how anyone but a zerg can win GSL2 seriously, no cheese for terran anymore means every game will be a macro game means zerg wins a protoss win is not even thinkable Hey, thats what they said about Zerg in GSL1, Why do I have a feeling you jinxed this and Toss is gonna win!? :DP | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
On October 15 2010 13:16 IVN wrote: I dont agree. Only the Robo tech is viable, and HTs in late game. The problem with Carriers or DTs is that they are suboptimal tech choices. They are bad even in PvP. If I can get a Colossus out in less time then the DT, why should I even consider the latter? DTs, Carrier and MS take simply too long compared to the other tech of the Protoss and compared to the comparable tech of the Terrans. (Zergs are a diff. story, since they are the "oddest" of the 3 races) People are going to have to come up with timings that work. I'm optimistic enough about it to think it'll be fine, it'll just take some new strategies. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On October 15 2010 13:16 IVN wrote: I dont agree. Only the Robo tech is viable, and HTs in late game. The problem with Carriers or DTs is that they are suboptimal tech choices. They are bad even in PvP. If I can get a Colossus out in less time then the DT, why should I even consider the latter? DTs, Carrier and MS take simply too long compared to the other tech of the Protoss and compared to the comparable tech of the Terrans. (Zergs are a diff. story, since they are the "oddest" of the 3 races) Don't agree at all. DTs are a pretty good support and harass unit later on, forcing tons of scans (sucks for them if they spammed PFs). Carriers are an excellent support unit, incredibly difficult to kill carrier+HT, since countering carriers requires simply lots of units, which of course HTs thrive on. MS is of course an unusual case. If you have the fleet beacon anyway, it's often a useful unit imo. Vortex can seriously mess up an army, as can cloak or a recall into their main. Very situational but has its uses. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On October 15 2010 13:11 Yaotzin wrote: That's mostly a map fail. Small maps results in low-tech games. Obviously when most games are <15mins you're not gonna see carriers and motherships and whatnot. I watch a lot of games. More than I play even. Seen all day9's HD Psy and Huskys videos are rarely seen carriers or MS. See ultras and battleships much more because they have more usefulness. I play Zerg and get Ulttra all the time and try to every time. Maps are a problem tho with too many chokes and too easy to wall off IMO. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On October 15 2010 13:31 tdt wrote: I watch a lot of games. More than I play even. Seen all day9's HD Psy and Huskys videos are rarely seen carriers or MS. See ultras and battleships much more because they have more usefulness. I play Zerg and get Ulttra all the time and try to every time. Maps are a problem tho with too many chokes and too easy to wall off IMO. I always regard Ultras same level as Colossi and Thors. MS, Carriers, Broodlords and BCs are a bit higher. But all of them suck against Corruptors and Vikings ( not vs Voidrays anymore). Very easy to get counters to them. And I wanna point out that handful of marines totally shut down Carriers. I still believe that marines are too good for their cost, they counter too much stuff. Try to test 20 stimmed marines vs 10 speedlots. Marines win without micro. And speedlots are melee and do not shoot air, LoL. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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Santi
Colombia466 Posts
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Reborn58
United States238 Posts
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Boundless
Canada588 Posts
Trust me, having 5 Thors 250mm a Hive feels goooooooooooood... =D | ||
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