EPTZerg drops? - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
tacrats
476 Posts
| ||
|
lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
The one thing I see the least is Protoss drops, actually. Too bad the warp prism is made of glass... | ||
jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
baneling drops are pretty sexy though... i have no idea why these are hardly used. i can only speculate that the cost of the upgrades combined with the timing isn't as good as in broodwar. | ||
|
OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
On October 13 2010 16:11 canikizu wrote: Every Z units cost larva, as much as I feel for Z players, using the larva card is getting old. I think it's the Z core that larva management is the most important. If it's so much important, why not dedicate another hatch (300 more minerals I know) for overlord and other small stuff only. I'm practicing Z and I found out that it's easier for me to do that. I can create overlords, scout zerglings, quick drone spawning for small stuffs. Besides, medivac also cost 2 supply, and they are useless when they have no mana (except drop, I guess lolz), but overlords cost no supply and can generate creeps. 3 overlords clumping up can generate creeps so fast that it's almost imba. Queens dont. | ||
|
Crackensan
United States479 Posts
If the game makes it to late game, this works because you have a bit more freedom, but like others have said, early/mid game I have a bit more to worry about than upgrading my overlords.... | ||
|
TechDeft
United States211 Posts
On October 13 2010 16:07 Effen wrote: haven't read many more inaccurate posts on tl before. 300/300 is the cost of 3 drop ships, not to mention the supply they take up, consuming the production abilities of your starport(s), etc. the cost for a terran to get 3 dropships can give zerg 20+. overlords are essentially free to use as a drop unit because you already have them made for other reasons. zerg drops are hands down the cheapest in the game. Would you risk your Supply Depots to do a drop? | ||
|
nihoh
Australia978 Posts
| ||
|
TurtlePerson2
United States218 Posts
| ||
|
kYem
United Kingdom412 Posts
 | ||
|
H. Guderian
United States18 Posts
1)Expensive upgrades. Any upgrade that is 200/200 is already a major investment for any race, but its virtually useless without the 100/100 speed upgrade. 2)Just doesn't do damage. What would you fear more, a medievac with 4 stim'd Marauders running at top speed in your main, or 4 lumbering Hydra? If the enemy has air you can bring 8 Marines! Also on top speed with the time! What can Zerg bring 8 of? Zerglings? 8 zerglings are near equal harass to any stimmed infantry? 4 Roaches can do equal harass to 4 Hellions, nay, Blue-Flame hellions? 3)Zerg need positioning and numbers in almost any engagement. Drops are temporary in most cases and not a doom-drop. 4)Nydus! Now Nydus can move enough units, is cheaper when it fails than a failed OL drop. Zerg don't do drops because there are so many good reasons not to. I've had my fair share of interesting baneling drops on a mineral line, but the OL Drop is just inferior to other available strats ready at the same time. As an aside, every race has a powerful 50/50 Upgrade, Concussive Shells/Warpgate. I'd reduce cost for the OL drop tech, maybe 150/150 on the carrying upgrade side, or maybe a 50/50 burrow. If Zerg are always gas starved why can't they have an optional 50/50 upgrade. | ||
|
Noocta
France12578 Posts
A 3 Muta's difference can be huge at this time. Zerg have scouting problem, and don't use drops enough, i think they should lower Ovie speed at 50/50. I feel that theses days, zerg tend to skip it, and it was a no brainer in the Beta. | ||
|
Red_beard
17 Posts
A mixed muta+ground force is arguably not weaker than a straight ground force - as Z ground is cost-ineffective, vulnerable to splash damage and gets superhard countered by storms, tanks, colossi. Also, the 300/300 investment for drops is hard for zerg in the mid-game, as you are really struggling to keep your army as strong as the opponent's. Compare the mid game returns - 7 muta flying into enemy worker line, that is workers killed + enemy builds turrets everywhere + enemy afraid to leave base / splits army, for under 1000/1000 inc spire). Early muta harassment is fairly low risk, as aside from bunching them up and taking a thor volley it's really easy to avoid losses. By comparison, bling drop: 300/300 research + 400/200 for 8 blings. The blings should be upgraded - a good opponent will flee his workers from slow blings, so we're getting into similar cost as 7 muta. The drop can be intercepted much more easily than muta, so the risk is greater. The payoff? If you catch your opponent completely pants down, you own his mineral line. Except 7 mutas can perform equally well and will potentially survive. 8 bling drop seems much riskier. I've tried drops and it's always like "yes, dropped 12 roaches! Yes! roaches killed 3 workers! Oh no, workers escaping, stimmed marauders incoming" Maybe at Fruitseller skill level, when you can control everything lightning fast and get the maximum utility out of a ground army while managing drops in separate places - you get more value for your buck than with muta harassment. But at my skill level, a drop seems all innish - I risk a costly force, have a questionable chance of actually killing something valuable and a couple of vikings means I've lost all my guys. | ||
|
MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
| ||
|
ryanAnger
United States838 Posts
On October 13 2010 16:07 Effen wrote: haven't read many more inaccurate posts on tl before. 300/300 is the cost of 3 drop ships, not to mention the supply they take up, consuming the production abilities of your starport(s), etc. the cost for a terran to get 3 dropships can give zerg 20+. overlords are essentially free to use as a drop unit because you already have them made for other reasons. zerg drops are hands down the cheapest in the game. And medivacs aren't already there for other purposes? What Terran player doesn't make medivacs for their healing? They always have a couple, and they are immediately allowed to drop. Your argument that Zerg already has Overlords is null, because Terran already has Medivacs. | ||
|
Yilar
Denmark90 Posts
| ||
|
LeCastor
France234 Posts
On October 13 2010 23:04 MrMotionPicture wrote: You need the speed upgrade, then the drop upgrade. I think that takes too much time to get both :\ You can have both on the same time, since you will be already on two bases. It just take two much time anyway. Nydus is more aggressive since it comes earlier and terran would not have enough army, but it's less effective. | ||
|
ava34
United Kingdom153 Posts
| ||
|
sevia
United States954 Posts
The drop tech is really, REALLY expensive; I think drops would be a lot more accessible if they took ovie speed back down to 50/50. Scouting is such a huge deal in ZvT and ZvP that it's basically required as it is. | ||
|
Zack1900
United States211 Posts
Now that I'm already posting the second biggest problem with drops in my opinion is that the units take to long to unload for zerg in nydus and to a lesser extent ov drops. Using a nydus to do damage should mean your sending through things like roaches, hydras, queens, ultralisks, banelings. These are the big units that can get things done in relatively small numbers. Lings should be the go to drop unit but are to clumsy to transport to work in most cases. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
| ||
| ||
