Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 39

Jaal

United States61 Posts

October 30 2010 00:19 GMT

#761

On October 30 2010 08:31 mulander wrote:

This feature request has already been reported. If you want to see it implemented follow the link and click the star next to the issue name. The number of stars an issue gets allows us to prioritize our work on what people actually want.

Thank you very much. How many stars does an enhancement need in order for it get implemented in a future patch?

Bumblebees

United States328 Posts

October 30 2010 04:49 GMT

#762

Added in yabot output to the main trunk tonight

styka

United States74 Posts

October 30 2010 05:50 GMT

#763

Thank you for reminding me how much my computer kicks ass

mulander

Poland19 Posts

October 30 2010 06:26 GMT

#764

On October 30 2010 09:19 Jaal wrote:

Show nested quote +

Thank you very much. How many stars does an enhancement need in order for it get implemented in a future patch?

There is no threshold. It's just a pointer for developers that we use to arbitrary pick issues to work on. Stuff with 0 stars can also get implemented but if something has a lot of stars the probability it gets implemented soon, grows.

Culture

Canada488 Posts

October 30 2010 06:31 GMT

#765

Make one for terran and protoss!

mulander

Poland19 Posts

October 30 2010 06:34 GMT

#766

On October 30 2010 15:31 Culture wrote:
Make one for terran and protoss!

Already reported as issue 19 and 18.

Culture

Canada488 Posts

October 30 2010 07:01 GMT

#767

How do you deal with relatively high local maximums?

lowlypawn

United States241 Posts

October 30 2010 10:15 GMT

#768

How about an Iphone app version of this?

icezar

Germany240 Posts

October 30 2010 10:20 GMT

#769

your Iphone does not have the power for this!
I do have to wait 6h for a good build order on my 3GHz desktop.

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

October 30 2010 10:35 GMT

#770

On October 29 2010 03:58 Lomilar wrote:
Hey all. I am going to Washington DC this weekend and will be out for part of the next week, so I'll be around sparingly until then, and then very little during the trip. Keep finding those bugs, and keep breaking the metagame! Sorry I haven't been around, busy busy.

We have a very good group of people implementing enhancements and fixing bugs, so my next goal (after implementing a starting configuration, so you can see how to transition from one build to another build, and create something resembling build 'trees') is to start coding up terran/protoss.

Cheers!

Awesome. Have you decided yet whether you would want to merge all three races into one executable (perhaps you can call it SC2 Build Order Optimizer), or do you want to have them on seperate executables?

mulander

Poland19 Posts

October 30 2010 11:59 GMT

#771

On October 30 2010 19:15 lowlypawn wrote:
How about an Iphone app version of this?

Publishing this for an iPhone would require

A rewrite of the application and the supportive libraries in Objective-C (currently it's written in Java)
Macs to do the development because Apple doesn't publish an official SDK for other operating systems.
Enrolling on the developer plan which requires a fee.

Also, running an app like EC has no point on mobile phones in it's current state.
The application is CPU and memory intensive. This would drastically reduce the responsiveness of your phone and drain the battery significantly faster.
The only thing that seems like a plausible idea for a mobile app related to EC would be a remote control/progress viewer for the main application running on your desktop machine.

icezar

Germany240 Posts

October 30 2010 13:43 GMT

#772

Hi,

I want to find the fastest way to get your economy started and figure later how to survive based on the BO I found.

So i want to get 2 base 32 drones on mineral ASAP and then see what to delay so i do not die.
The fastest was:
10 Overlord
10 Extractor Trick
11 Hatchery
14 Hatchery
last drone pops 5:08
... and yes that is the fastest way to get 16 drones out but economically is not the best since:
9 Overlord
15 Hatchery
16 spawning Pool
16 Overlord
19 queen
23 queen
25 Overlord
last drone pops 5:20

If you compare the 2, at 5:20 mark (when the income?sec will become the same) the second build had gather 150 more minerals not to mention that you also have more usefull stuff spawning pool queen.

Do you have any suggestion what should i ask in this case?

Because, for example, next, i would like to get the fastest army worth of 3600 mineral and 1200 gas for example. I do not know if that would be 12 muta and 96 lings or 48 roach or maybe any other combination.

What i want to see is how important macro is. Since Blizz usually do balance according to army value i want to see what would happen if you macro-up the fastest army value and do a timing push based on different army values.

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

October 30 2010 13:51 GMT

#773

On October 30 2010 22:43 icezar wrote:
Hi,

I want to find the fastest way to get your economy started and figure later how to survive based on the BO I found.

So i want to get 2 base 32 drones on mineral ASAP and then see what to delay so i do not die.
The fastest was:
10 Overlord
10 Extractor Trick
11 Hatchery
14 Hatchery
last drone pops 5:08
... and yes that is the fastest way to get 16 drones out but economically is not the best since:
9 Overlord
15 Hatchery
16 spawning Pool
16 Overlord
19 queen
23 queen
25 Overlord
last drone pops 5:20

If you compare the 2, at 5:20 mark (when the income?sec will become the same) the second build had gather 150 more minerals not to mention that you also have more usefull stuff spawning pool queen.

Do you have any suggestion what should i ask in this case?

Because, for example, next, i would like to get the fastest army worth of 3600 mineral and 1200 gas for example. I do not know if that would be 12 muta and 96 lings or 48 roach or maybe any other combination.

What i want to see is how important macro is. Since Blizz usually do balance according to army value i want to see what would happen if you macro-up the fastest army value and do a timing push based on different army values.

Blizzard stated at Blizzcon 2010 that zerg are not meant to be able to put up a fight against protoss and terran with tier 1 and tier 2 units, that they are designed as a harassing race. If what blizzard says is true, with perfect play zerg shouldn't win against protoss and terran with timing pushes.

HanSoo

United States17 Posts

October 30 2010 13:56 GMT

#774

I forgot I left a copy running with 20 muta + econ so I have a build after 1.1+ billion games.

It's obviously not practical verbatim because the first attacking unit is not produced until 7:33, but I figure it's interesting nonetheless because of the used CPU time.

After 38 hours on 6 cores it still found a new order.

+ Show Spoiler +

@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone
@0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone
@0:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@0:30 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:43 M:105 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildOverlord
@0:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:51 M:56 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildDrone
@1:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:08 Spawned: Overlord+1
@1:08 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:08 M:114 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone
@1:08 M:64 G:0 L:1 S:11/18 BuildDrone
@1:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:15 M:63 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone
@1:25 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:25 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:50 M:308 G:0 L:2 S:13/18 BuildHatchery
@1:55 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:12/18 BuildDrone
@2:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:01 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:13/18 BuildDrone
@2:07 M:54 G:0 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone
@2:12 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:15 M:74 G:0 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone
@2:16 M:34 G:0 L:0 S:16/18 BuildExtractor
@2:18 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:24 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:30 M:140 G:0 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone
@2:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:45 M:246 G:0 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone
@2:46 Spawned: Extractor+1
@2:46 M:206 G:0 L:0 S:17/18 BuildSpawningPool
@2:46 M:6 G:0 L:0 S:16/18 MineGas
@2:46 M:6 G:0 L:0 S:16/18 MineGas
@2:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:48 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:48 Mining: +1 on gas
@3:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:00 M:135 G:18 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone
@3:00 M:85 G:18 L:0 S:17/18 MineGas
@3:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@3:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:15 M:221 G:46 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone
@3:15 M:171 G:46 L:0 S:18/18 BuildExtractor
@3:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:30 Spawned: Hatchery+1
@3:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:30 M:283 G:74 L:2 S:17/20 BuildDrone
@3:30 M:233 G:74 L:1 S:18/20 BuildDrone
@3:30 M:183 G:74 L:0 S:19/20 BuildExtractor
@3:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:45 Spawned: Extractor+1
@3:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:45 M:295 G:103 L:2 S:18/20 BuildDrone
@3:45 M:245 G:103 L:1 S:19/20 BuildOverlord
@3:45 M:145 G:103 L:0 S:19/20 MineGas
@3:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:47 Mining: +1 on gas
@3:51 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1
@4:00 Spawned: Extractor+1
@4:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:00 M:290 G:144 L:2 S:19/20 BuildDrone
@4:00 M:240 G:144 L:1 S:20/20 MineGas
@4:00 M:240 G:144 L:1 S:20/20 BuildLair
@4:00 M

0 G:44 L:1 S:20/20 MineGas
@4:00 M

0 G:44 L:1 S:20/20 BuildExtractor
@4:00 M:65 G:44 L:1 S:19/20 BuildDrone
@4:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:10 Spawned: Overlord+1
@4:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:15 M:112 G:127 L:2 S:20/28 BuildDrone
@4:15 M:62 G:127 L:1 S:21/28 BuildDrone
@4:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:30 Spawned: Extractor+1
@4:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:30 M:128 G:213 L:2 S:22/28 BuildDrone
@4:30 M:78 G:213 L:1 S:23/28 BuildDrone
@4:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:45 M:163 G:304 L:2 S:24/28 BuildDrone
@4:45 M:113 G:304 L:1 S:25/28 BuildDrone
@4:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:00 M:217 G:396 L:2 S:26/28 BuildOverlord
@5:00 M:117 G:396 L:1 S:26/28 BuildOverlord
@5:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:15 M:192 G:487 L:2 S:26/28 BuildDrone
@5:20 Spawned: Lairs+1
@5:20 M:202 G:518 L:1 S:27/28 BuildSpire
@5:20 M:2 G:318 L:1 S:26/28 MineGas
@5:20 M:2 G:318 L:1 S:26/28 MineGas
@5:22 Mining: +1 on gas
@5:22 Mining: +1 on gas
@5:25 Spawned: Overlord+1
@5:25 Spawned: Overlord+1
@5:25 M:51 G:352 L:1 S:26/44 BuildDrone
@5:25 M:1 G:352 L:0 S:27/44 MineGas
@5:27 Mining: +1 on gas
@5:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:31 M:57 G:397 L:2 S:27/44 BuildDrone
@5:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:36 M:55 G:435 L:1 S:28/44 BuildDrone
@5:42 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:45 M

5 G:504 L:2 S:29/44 BuildDrone
@5:46 M:56 G:511 L:1 S:30/44 BuildDrone
@5:48 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:53 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:00 M:165 G:618 L:2 S:31/44 BuildDrone
@6:00 M:115 G:618 L:1 S:32/44 BuildDrone
@6:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:03 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:15 M:262 G:732 L:2 S:33/44 BuildDrone
@6:15 M:212 G:732 L:1 S:34/44 BuildQueen
@6:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:18 M:102 G:755 L:1 S:36/44 BuildOverlord
@6:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:30 M:181 G:846 L:2 S:36/44 BuildOverlord
@6:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:32 M:111 G:861 L:1 S:36/44 BuildOverlord
@6:43 Spawned: Overlord+1
@6:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:45 M:215 G

60 L:2 S:36/52 BuildOverlord
@6:45 M:115 G

60 L:1 S:36/52 BuildOverlord
@6:55 Spawned: Overlord+1
@6:57 Spawned: Overlord+1
@7:00 Spawned: Spire+1
@7:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:00 M:250 G:1074 L:2 S:36/68 BuildOverlord
@7:00 M:150 G:1074 L:1 S:36/68 BuildMutalisk
@7:05 Spawned: Queen+1
@7:10 Spawned: Overlord+1
@7:10 Spawned: Overlord+1
@7:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:15 M:286 G:1088 L:2 S:38/84 BuildMutalisk
@7:15 M:186 G

88 L:1 S:40/84 BuildMutalisk
@7:25 Spawned: Overlord+1
@7:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:30 M:321 G:1002 L:2 S:42/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:30 M:221 G

02 L:1 S:44/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:33 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@7:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:45 M:357 G

16 L:2 S:46/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:45 M:257 G:816 L:1 S:48/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:48 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@7:48 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@7:50 Spawned: Larva+4
@7:50 M:235 G:754 L:4 S:50/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:50 M:135 G:654 L:3 S:52/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:55 M:114 G:592 L:2 S:54/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@8:01 M:108 G:537 L:3 S:56/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:03 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:03 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:07 M:102 G:483 L:2 S:58/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:14 M:112 G:436 L:1 S:60/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@8:18 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:18 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:20 M:106 G:382 L:2 S:62/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:23 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:23 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:26 M:100 G:327 L:1 S:64/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:28 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@8:33 M:110 G:281 L:2 S:66/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:34 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:35 Spawned: Larva+4
@8:39 M:104 G:226 L:5 S:68/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:40 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@8:46 M:114 G:179 L:6 S:70/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:47 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:52 M:109 G:125 L:5 S:72/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:53 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:59 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:01 Spawned: Larva+1
@9:02 M:166 G:101 L:6 S:74/92 BuildMutalisk
@9:05 M:113 G:24 L:5 S:76/92 BuildOverlord
@9:06 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:11 M:107 G:69 L:4 S:76/92 BuildOverlord
@9:12 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:17 Spawned: Larva+1
@9:17 M:101 G:115 L:5 S:76/92 BuildOverlord
@9:19 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:20 Spawned: Larva+4
@9:25 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:30 Spawned: Overlord+1
@9:32 Spawned: Larva+1
@9:35 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
Satisfied.
Number of actions in build order: 91
---Final Output---
At time: 9:35
Minerals: 284 Gas: 252 Supply: 76/100
Drones: 34
Overlords: 12
Queens: 1
Mutalisks: 20
Hatcheries: 1
Lairs: 1
Gas Extractors: 4
Spawning Pools: 1
Spire: 1
------------------
Sat Oct 30 05:55:48 CDT 2010: 634728.5370434785

Excstazy

Colombia46 Posts

October 30 2010 14:06 GMT

#775

This is awesome, ima be experimenting with this... cant wait for the other races optimizer.

Blu3

United States126 Posts

October 30 2010 14:54 GMT

#776

I thank you sir, for this awesome program!!!
Bookmarking the page for sure.
I'm surprised at how long it takes to run though - would a stand alone executable save a lot of time, or not enough to make it worth while?

Seems to give a great idea of how to get the fastest build for something. I'm currently testing the 7 rr and a crazy hydra build.

The waypoints is INCREDIBLE!!!! I can't stress ENOUGH how much I like that aspect of this program!
Thanks!

FishForThought

Canada88 Posts

October 30 2010 15:41 GMT

#777

Sorry if this has been answered but:

Any reason it keeps spawning gas extractors with only 1 hatchery? or does it assume we do long distance gas mining?

Edit: Nevermind, the extra hatchery, and gas are expos.

mulander

Poland19 Posts

October 30 2010 15:42 GMT

#778

On October 30 2010 23:54 Blu3 wrote:
I'm surprised at how long it takes to run though - would a stand alone executable save a lot of time, or not enough to make it worth while?

The program is a standalone executable. The reason it runs long is because the builds are optimized by the use of a genetic algorithm that mixes build orders and rates them in order to try to achieve a better goal. In this application there is no fixed amount of computation required to get the absolutely optimal build order.

Ncinerate

172 Posts

October 30 2010 16:11 GMT

#779

I'm noticing that the builds this program produces are a bit off in real-game time. Since it might be pretty tough to actually code this perfectly, how about adding an "approximate real-game-time completion" result.

You can see the timing is off from the get-go. If you look at the timing on the first overlord it is considerably faster then it can actually be built, and it compounds from there. Builds are off roughly 10 seconds early, and that seems to extend to closer to 30 seconds as you push past 7 minutes. Just thinking perhaps a simple curve of +time added could solve this without having to address the underlying problems.

If not, no -big- deal, I can always just add time to my result in my head. The program is awesome btw, thanks guys for all the hard work!

Bumblebees

United States328 Posts

October 30 2010 16:57 GMT

#780

On October 31 2010 01:11 Ncinerate wrote:
I'm noticing that the builds this program produces are a bit off in real-game time. Since it might be pretty tough to actually code this perfectly, how about adding an "approximate real-game-time completion" result.

You can see the timing is off from the get-go. If you look at the timing on the first overlord it is considerably faster then it can actually be built, and it compounds from there. Builds are off roughly 10 seconds early, and that seems to extend to closer to 30 seconds as you push past 7 minutes. Just thinking perhaps a simple curve of +time added could solve this without having to address the underlying problems.

If not, no -big- deal, I can always just add time to my result in my head. The program is awesome btw, thanks guys for all the hard work!

The next version should improve on this greatly.

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