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Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 39

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Jaal
Profile Joined May 2010
United States61 Posts
October 30 2010 00:19 GMT
#761
On October 30 2010 08:31 mulander wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2010 06:38 Jaal wrote:
Would it be possible to include the number of creep tumors in waypoints and final output?


This feature request has already been reported. If you want to see it implemented follow the link and click the star next to the issue name. The number of stars an issue gets allows us to prioritize our work on what people actually want.


Thank you very much. How many stars does an enhancement need in order for it get implemented in a future patch?

Bumblebees
Profile Joined August 2010
United States328 Posts
October 30 2010 04:49 GMT
#762
Added in yabot output to the main trunk tonight
styka
Profile Joined April 2010
United States74 Posts
October 30 2010 05:50 GMT
#763
Thank you for reminding me how much my computer kicks ass
mulander
Profile Joined May 2010
Poland19 Posts
October 30 2010 06:26 GMT
#764
On October 30 2010 09:19 Jaal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2010 08:31 mulander wrote:
On October 30 2010 06:38 Jaal wrote:
Would it be possible to include the number of creep tumors in waypoints and final output?


This feature request has already been reported. If you want to see it implemented follow the link and click the star next to the issue name. The number of stars an issue gets allows us to prioritize our work on what people actually want.


Thank you very much. How many stars does an enhancement need in order for it get implemented in a future patch?



There is no threshold. It's just a pointer for developers that we use to arbitrary pick issues to work on. Stuff with 0 stars can also get implemented but if something has a lot of stars the probability it gets implemented soon, grows.
Culture
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada488 Posts
October 30 2010 06:31 GMT
#765
Make one for terran and protoss!
mulander
Profile Joined May 2010
Poland19 Posts
October 30 2010 06:34 GMT
#766
On October 30 2010 15:31 Culture wrote:
Make one for terran and protoss!


Already reported as issue 19 and 18.
Culture
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada488 Posts
October 30 2010 07:01 GMT
#767
How do you deal with relatively high local maximums?
lowlypawn
Profile Joined January 2009
United States241 Posts
October 30 2010 10:15 GMT
#768
How about an Iphone app version of this?
icezar
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany240 Posts
October 30 2010 10:20 GMT
#769
your Iphone does not have the power for this!
I do have to wait 6h for a good build order on my 3GHz desktop.
Dionyseus
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States2068 Posts
October 30 2010 10:35 GMT
#770
On October 29 2010 03:58 Lomilar wrote:
Hey all. I am going to Washington DC this weekend and will be out for part of the next week, so I'll be around sparingly until then, and then very little during the trip. Keep finding those bugs, and keep breaking the metagame! Sorry I haven't been around, busy busy.

We have a very good group of people implementing enhancements and fixing bugs, so my next goal (after implementing a starting configuration, so you can see how to transition from one build to another build, and create something resembling build 'trees') is to start coding up terran/protoss.

Cheers!


Awesome. Have you decided yet whether you would want to merge all three races into one executable (perhaps you can call it SC2 Build Order Optimizer), or do you want to have them on seperate executables?
9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius
mulander
Profile Joined May 2010
Poland19 Posts
October 30 2010 11:59 GMT
#771
On October 30 2010 19:15 lowlypawn wrote:
How about an Iphone app version of this?


Publishing this for an iPhone would require
  • A rewrite of the application and the supportive libraries in Objective-C (currently it's written in Java)
  • Macs to do the development because Apple doesn't publish an official SDK for other operating systems.
  • Enrolling on the developer plan which requires a fee.


Also, running an app like EC has no point on mobile phones in it's current state.
The application is CPU and memory intensive. This would drastically reduce the responsiveness of your phone and drain the battery significantly faster.
The only thing that seems like a plausible idea for a mobile app related to EC would be a remote control/progress viewer for the main application running on your desktop machine.
icezar
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany240 Posts
October 30 2010 13:43 GMT
#772
Hi,

I want to find the fastest way to get your economy started and figure later how to survive based on the BO I found.

So i want to get 2 base 32 drones on mineral ASAP and then see what to delay so i do not die.
The fastest was:
10 Overlord
10 Extractor Trick
11 Hatchery
14 Hatchery
last drone pops 5:08
... and yes that is the fastest way to get 16 drones out but economically is not the best since:
9 Overlord
15 Hatchery
16 spawning Pool
16 Overlord
19 queen
23 queen
25 Overlord
last drone pops 5:20

If you compare the 2, at 5:20 mark (when the income?sec will become the same) the second build had gather 150 more minerals not to mention that you also have more usefull stuff spawning pool queen.

Do you have any suggestion what should i ask in this case?

Because, for example, next, i would like to get the fastest army worth of 3600 mineral and 1200 gas for example. I do not know if that would be 12 muta and 96 lings or 48 roach or maybe any other combination.

What i want to see is how important macro is. Since Blizz usually do balance according to army value i want to see what would happen if you macro-up the fastest army value and do a timing push based on different army values.
Dionyseus
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States2068 Posts
October 30 2010 13:51 GMT
#773
On October 30 2010 22:43 icezar wrote:
Hi,

I want to find the fastest way to get your economy started and figure later how to survive based on the BO I found.

So i want to get 2 base 32 drones on mineral ASAP and then see what to delay so i do not die.
The fastest was:
10 Overlord
10 Extractor Trick
11 Hatchery
14 Hatchery
last drone pops 5:08
... and yes that is the fastest way to get 16 drones out but economically is not the best since:
9 Overlord
15 Hatchery
16 spawning Pool
16 Overlord
19 queen
23 queen
25 Overlord
last drone pops 5:20

If you compare the 2, at 5:20 mark (when the income?sec will become the same) the second build had gather 150 more minerals not to mention that you also have more usefull stuff spawning pool queen.

Do you have any suggestion what should i ask in this case?

Because, for example, next, i would like to get the fastest army worth of 3600 mineral and 1200 gas for example. I do not know if that would be 12 muta and 96 lings or 48 roach or maybe any other combination.

What i want to see is how important macro is. Since Blizz usually do balance according to army value i want to see what would happen if you macro-up the fastest army value and do a timing push based on different army values.


Blizzard stated at Blizzcon 2010 that zerg are not meant to be able to put up a fight against protoss and terran with tier 1 and tier 2 units, that they are designed as a harassing race. If what blizzard says is true, with perfect play zerg shouldn't win against protoss and terran with timing pushes.
9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius
HanSoo
Profile Joined September 2010
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 13:57:10
October 30 2010 13:56 GMT
#774
I forgot I left a copy running with 20 muta + econ so I have a build after 1.1+ billion games.

It's obviously not practical verbatim because the first attacking unit is not produced until 7:33, but I figure it's interesting nonetheless because of the used CPU time.

After 38 hours on 6 cores it still found a new order.

+ Show Spoiler +
@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone
@0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone
@0:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@0:30 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:41 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:43 M:105 G:0 L:2 S/10 BuildOverlord
@0:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:51 M:56 G:0 L:2 S/10 BuildDrone
@1:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:08 Spawned: Overlord+1
@1:08 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:08 M:114 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone
@1:08 M:64 G:0 L:1 S:11/18 BuildDrone
@1:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:15 M:63 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone
@1:25 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:25 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:50 M:308 G:0 L:2 S:13/18 BuildHatchery
@1:55 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:12/18 BuildDrone
@2:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:01 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:13/18 BuildDrone
@2:07 M:54 G:0 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone
@2:12 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:15 M:74 G:0 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone
@2:16 M:34 G:0 L:0 S:16/18 BuildExtractor
@2:18 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:24 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:30 M:140 G:0 L:1 S:15/18 BuildDrone
@2:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:45 M:246 G:0 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone
@2:46 Spawned: Extractor+1
@2:46 M:206 G:0 L:0 S:17/18 BuildSpawningPool
@2:46 M:6 G:0 L:0 S:16/18 MineGas
@2:46 M:6 G:0 L:0 S:16/18 MineGas
@2:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:48 Mining: +1 on gas
@2:48 Mining: +1 on gas
@3:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:00 M:135 G:18 L:1 S:16/18 BuildDrone
@3:00 M:85 G:18 L:0 S:17/18 MineGas
@3:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@3:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:15 M:221 G:46 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone
@3:15 M:171 G:46 L:0 S:18/18 BuildExtractor
@3:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:30 Spawned: Hatchery+1
@3:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:30 M:283 G:74 L:2 S:17/20 BuildDrone
@3:30 M:233 G:74 L:1 S:18/20 BuildDrone
@3:30 M:183 G:74 L:0 S:19/20 BuildExtractor
@3:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:45 Spawned: Extractor+1
@3:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:45 M:295 G:103 L:2 S:18/20 BuildDrone
@3:45 M:245 G:103 L:1 S:19/20 BuildOverlord
@3:45 M:145 G:103 L:0 S:19/20 MineGas
@3:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:47 Mining: +1 on gas
@3:51 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1
@4:00 Spawned: Extractor+1
@4:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:00 M:290 G:144 L:2 S:19/20 BuildDrone
@4:00 M:240 G:144 L:1 S:20/20 MineGas
@4:00 M:240 G:144 L:1 S:20/20 BuildLair
@4:00 M0 G:44 L:1 S:20/20 MineGas
@4:00 M0 G:44 L:1 S:20/20 MineGas
@4:00 M0 G:44 L:1 S:20/20 MineGas
@4:00 M0 G:44 L:1 S:20/20 MineGas
@4:00 M0 G:44 L:1 S:20/20 BuildExtractor
@4:00 M:65 G:44 L:1 S:19/20 BuildDrone
@4:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:02 Mining: +1 on gas
@4:10 Spawned: Overlord+1
@4:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:15 M:112 G:127 L:2 S:20/28 BuildDrone
@4:15 M:62 G:127 L:1 S:21/28 BuildDrone
@4:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:30 Spawned: Extractor+1
@4:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:30 M:128 G:213 L:2 S:22/28 BuildDrone
@4:30 M:78 G:213 L:1 S:23/28 BuildDrone
@4:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:45 M:163 G:304 L:2 S:24/28 BuildDrone
@4:45 M:113 G:304 L:1 S:25/28 BuildDrone
@4:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:00 M:217 G:396 L:2 S:26/28 BuildOverlord
@5:00 M:117 G:396 L:1 S:26/28 BuildOverlord
@5:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:15 M:192 G:487 L:2 S:26/28 BuildDrone
@5:20 Spawned: Lairs+1
@5:20 M:202 G:518 L:1 S:27/28 BuildSpire
@5:20 M:2 G:318 L:1 S:26/28 MineGas
@5:20 M:2 G:318 L:1 S:26/28 MineGas
@5:22 Mining: +1 on gas
@5:22 Mining: +1 on gas
@5:25 Spawned: Overlord+1
@5:25 Spawned: Overlord+1
@5:25 M:51 G:352 L:1 S:26/44 BuildDrone
@5:25 M:1 G:352 L:0 S:27/44 MineGas
@5:27 Mining: +1 on gas
@5:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:31 M:57 G:397 L:2 S:27/44 BuildDrone
@5:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:36 M:55 G:435 L:1 S:28/44 BuildDrone
@5:42 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@5:45 M5 G:504 L:2 S:29/44 BuildDrone
@5:46 M:56 G:511 L:1 S:30/44 BuildDrone
@5:48 Spawned: Drone+1
@5:53 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:00 M:165 G:618 L:2 S:31/44 BuildDrone
@6:00 M:115 G:618 L:1 S:32/44 BuildDrone
@6:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:03 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:15 M:262 G:732 L:2 S:33/44 BuildDrone
@6:15 M:212 G:732 L:1 S:34/44 BuildQueen
@6:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:18 M:102 G:755 L:1 S:36/44 BuildOverlord
@6:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:30 M:181 G:846 L:2 S:36/44 BuildOverlord
@6:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@6:32 M:111 G:861 L:1 S:36/44 BuildOverlord
@6:43 Spawned: Overlord+1
@6:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@6:45 M:215 G60 L:2 S:36/52 BuildOverlord
@6:45 M:115 G60 L:1 S:36/52 BuildOverlord
@6:55 Spawned: Overlord+1
@6:57 Spawned: Overlord+1
@7:00 Spawned: Spire+1
@7:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:00 M:250 G:1074 L:2 S:36/68 BuildOverlord
@7:00 M:150 G:1074 L:1 S:36/68 BuildMutalisk
@7:05 Spawned: Queen+1
@7:10 Spawned: Overlord+1
@7:10 Spawned: Overlord+1
@7:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:15 M:286 G:1088 L:2 S:38/84 BuildMutalisk
@7:15 M:186 G88 L:1 S:40/84 BuildMutalisk
@7:25 Spawned: Overlord+1
@7:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:30 M:321 G:1002 L:2 S:42/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:30 M:221 G02 L:1 S:44/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:33 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@7:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@7:45 M:357 G16 L:2 S:46/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:45 M:257 G:816 L:1 S:48/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:48 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@7:48 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@7:50 Spawned: Larva+4
@7:50 M:235 G:754 L:4 S:50/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:50 M:135 G:654 L:3 S:52/92 BuildMutalisk
@7:55 M:114 G:592 L:2 S:54/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@8:01 M:108 G:537 L:3 S:56/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:03 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:03 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:07 M:102 G:483 L:2 S:58/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:14 M:112 G:436 L:1 S:60/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@8:18 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:18 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:20 M:106 G:382 L:2 S:62/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:23 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:23 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:26 M:100 G:327 L:1 S:64/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:28 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@8:33 M:110 G:281 L:2 S:66/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:34 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:35 Spawned: Larva+4
@8:39 M:104 G:226 L:5 S:68/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:40 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@8:46 M:114 G:179 L:6 S:70/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:47 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:52 M:109 G:125 L:5 S:72/92 BuildMutalisk
@8:53 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@8:59 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:01 Spawned: Larva+1
@9:02 M:166 G:101 L:6 S:74/92 BuildMutalisk
@9:05 M:113 G:24 L:5 S:76/92 BuildOverlord
@9:06 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:11 M:107 G:69 L:4 S:76/92 BuildOverlord
@9:12 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:17 Spawned: Larva+1
@9:17 M:101 G:115 L:5 S:76/92 BuildOverlord
@9:19 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:20 Spawned: Larva+4
@9:25 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
@9:30 Spawned: Overlord+1
@9:32 Spawned: Larva+1
@9:35 Spawned: Mutalisk+1
Satisfied.
Number of actions in build order: 91
---Final Output---
At time: 9:35
Minerals: 284 Gas: 252 Supply: 76/100
Drones: 34
Overlords: 12
Queens: 1
Mutalisks: 20
Hatcheries: 1
Lairs: 1
Gas Extractors: 4
Spawning Pools: 1
Spire: 1
------------------
Sat Oct 30 05:55:48 CDT 2010: 634728.5370434785
Excstazy
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia46 Posts
October 30 2010 14:06 GMT
#775
This is awesome, ima be experimenting with this... cant wait for the other races optimizer.
Colombia!!!
Blu3
Profile Joined August 2010
United States126 Posts
October 30 2010 14:54 GMT
#776
I thank you sir, for this awesome program!!!
Bookmarking the page for sure.
I'm surprised at how long it takes to run though - would a stand alone executable save a lot of time, or not enough to make it worth while?

Seems to give a great idea of how to get the fastest build for something. I'm currently testing the 7 rr and a crazy hydra build.

The waypoints is INCREDIBLE!!!! I can't stress ENOUGH how much I like that aspect of this program!
Thanks!
Blu3 is the color that wins
FishForThought
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada88 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 15:49:39
October 30 2010 15:41 GMT
#777
Sorry if this has been answered but:

Any reason it keeps spawning gas extractors with only 1 hatchery? or does it assume we do long distance gas mining?

Edit: Nevermind, the extra hatchery, and gas are expos.

mulander
Profile Joined May 2010
Poland19 Posts
October 30 2010 15:42 GMT
#778
On October 30 2010 23:54 Blu3 wrote:
I'm surprised at how long it takes to run though - would a stand alone executable save a lot of time, or not enough to make it worth while?

The program is a standalone executable. The reason it runs long is because the builds are optimized by the use of a genetic algorithm that mixes build orders and rates them in order to try to achieve a better goal. In this application there is no fixed amount of computation required to get the absolutely optimal build order.
Ncinerate
Profile Joined October 2010
172 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 16:14:19
October 30 2010 16:11 GMT
#779
I'm noticing that the builds this program produces are a bit off in real-game time. Since it might be pretty tough to actually code this perfectly, how about adding an "approximate real-game-time completion" result.

You can see the timing is off from the get-go. If you look at the timing on the first overlord it is considerably faster then it can actually be built, and it compounds from there. Builds are off roughly 10 seconds early, and that seems to extend to closer to 30 seconds as you push past 7 minutes. Just thinking perhaps a simple curve of +time added could solve this without having to address the underlying problems.

If not, no -big- deal, I can always just add time to my result in my head. The program is awesome btw, thanks guys for all the hard work!
Bumblebees
Profile Joined August 2010
United States328 Posts
October 30 2010 16:57 GMT
#780
On October 31 2010 01:11 Ncinerate wrote:
I'm noticing that the builds this program produces are a bit off in real-game time. Since it might be pretty tough to actually code this perfectly, how about adding an "approximate real-game-time completion" result.

You can see the timing is off from the get-go. If you look at the timing on the first overlord it is considerably faster then it can actually be built, and it compounds from there. Builds are off roughly 10 seconds early, and that seems to extend to closer to 30 seconds as you push past 7 minutes. Just thinking perhaps a simple curve of +time added could solve this without having to address the underlying problems.

If not, no -big- deal, I can always just add time to my result in my head. The program is awesome btw, thanks guys for all the hard work!


The next version should improve on this greatly.
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