Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 31

OverLulz

Germany75 Posts

October 24 2010 09:28 GMT

#601

On October 24 2010 17:46 Roblin wrote:
I cant get it to run

JAVA-JAR-file "evolutionchamber-version-0015.jar" was unable to start
check the log for error-messages

I cant find any updates to anything, so I assume I have the required Java, there is no log to check for error messages, the download went fine, but I just get above message when I tell my comp (mac) to run it.

help please?

u have snow leopard? mac 10.6?

azzu

Germany141 Posts

October 24 2010 09:52 GMT

#602

On October 24 2010 12:34 Lejving wrote:
- To tell it when to scout, so it can account for loss of income. For example I want to scout at 10 or when my overlord finishes, then it just "kills" one drone or what ever. No need to add it again.

I will add this to the issue list

On October 24 2010 12:34 Lejving wrote:
- Ability to add "make two zerglings directly after Spawning Pool finishes" or some variation of that

wouldn't be bad to have either, adding also

On October 24 2010 12:34 Lejving wrote:
- Add creep tumors (basically ignoring one inject larva)

i already added this to the list yesterday^^

On October 24 2010 12:34 Lejving wrote:
- Maybe some priority system? If I put in 1 drone and 1 Zergling, it makes Spawning Pool first and then a drone, but I rather have drones before zergling. So Drones > Zerglings. Maybe this is not needed if you add the second thing

it always tries for the fastest build, so pool before drone is reasonable. a few posts earlier he said that he wants to have different scoring sets, one for rush as it is now, and later one for good eco(drones valued higher).

On October 24 2010 12:34 Lejving wrote:
- To be able to give it some guidelines, like I know it's pretty safe to 14 pool, so I put in 9 overlord and 14 pool and from there on it calculates the fastest way to get 5 roaches or something like that.

i partially agree with this one, you should be able to give it a build order to start with and let it optimize it, but it shouldn't be fixed... what when it finds out that 10 pool is better for more drones? would you still want to 14 pool?

On October 24 2010 12:34 Lejving wrote:
- The ability to let it spend every left overs to something. Like i want at 7min mark 3 spine crawlers, 3 hatcheries, 3 queens and 4 zerglings. Let program calculate how i get that + max amount of drones. So all left over minerals should be spent on drones

this will propably be done when the eco scoring mode is implemented

Pwere

Canada1557 Posts

October 24 2010 11:48 GMT

#603

On October 24 2010 18:52 azzu wrote:i partially agree with this one, you should be able to give it a build order to start with and let it optimize it, but it shouldn't be fixed... what when it finds out that 10 pool is better for more drones? would you still want to 14 pool?

I think the point is to have one safe opening that branches into many builds. If 14 pool is marginally slower but balances my game better, I'd rather use that.

Roblin

Sweden948 Posts

October 24 2010 11:51 GMT

#604

On October 24 2010 18:28 OverLulz wrote:

Show nested quote +

u have snow leopard? mac 10.6?

no I don't, I guess thats it, anywho, it worked fine on my windows.

thanks anyway.

Edit: I found a bug, It ignores the max foodcap of 200

my simulation of "fastest possible way to get 400 zerglings" right now has a supply of 264/482

I did it to check what would happen if i forced it to outsupply itself, and this is it

azzu

Germany141 Posts

October 24 2010 14:20 GMT

#605

On October 24 2010 20:51 Roblin wrote:
I found a bug, It ignores the max foodcap of 200

my simulation of "fastest possible way to get 400 zerglings" right now has a supply of 264/482

I did it to check what would happen if i forced it to outsupply itself, and this is it

this is already on the issues list and will be fixed sometime soon

not a high priority though

Ghostlike

United States4 Posts

October 24 2010 15:16 GMT

#606

Modern gamers are so pathetic. You all need everything to be automated and spoon fed to you.

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

October 24 2010 15:22 GMT

#607

On October 25 2010 00:16 Ghostlike wrote:

Modern gamers are so pathetic. You all need everything to be automated and spoon fed to you.

If you have the technology to calculate the fastest and most efficient openings, why not use it?

Cragfire

United States34 Posts

October 24 2010 15:54 GMT

#608

Lolimar, does this program take into account taking drones off of gas? For example, if I want fast metabolic boost followed up by a ton of drones, will consider taking the drones off of gas after getting enough for the mandated tech?

azzu

Germany141 Posts

October 24 2010 16:01 GMT

#609

On October 25 2010 00:16 Ghostlike wrote:

Modern gamers are so pathetic. You all need everything to be automated and spoon fed to you.

obvious troll is obvious

On October 25 2010 00:54 Cragfire wrote:
Lolimar, does this program take into account taking drones off of gas? For example, if I want fast metabolic boost followed up by a ton of drones, will consider taking the drones off of gas after getting enough for the mandated tech?

not in the current release version. the beta v0016 has it though.

Phrujbaz

Netherlands512 Posts

October 24 2010 16:03 GMT

#610

Where is the source?

Edit: Whoops, missed it.

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

October 24 2010 16:10 GMT

#611

20 drones, 1 queen, lair, 4 zerglings, and 2 roaches at 4:38, after 12 million games simulated:
+ Show Spoiler +

@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone
@0:12 M:51 G:0 L:2 S:7/10 BuildDrone
@0:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:23 M:53 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone
@0:29 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:32 M:50 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildDrone
@0:40 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@0:45 M:77 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 ExtractorTrick
@0:45 M:52 G:0 L:2 S

/10 BuildDrone
@0:47 Spawned: Extractor Trick Finished, Drone Restored
@0:49 Spawned: Drone+1
@0:57 M:104 G:0 L:1 S:11/10 BuildOverlord
@1:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:22 Spawned: Overlord+1
@1:23 M:205 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildSpawningPool
@1:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:30 M:54 G:0 L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone
@1:37 M:54 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone
@1:44 M:54 G:0 L:1 S:12/18 BuildDrone
@1:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@1:47 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:51 M:57 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone
@1:54 Spawned: Drone+1
@1:54 M:32 G:0 L:0 S:14/18 BuildExtractor
@2:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:00 M:54 G:0 L:1 S:13/18 BuildDrone
@2:01 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:08 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:15 M:138 G:0 L:1 S:14/18 BuildDrone
@2:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:24 Spawned: Extractor+1
@2:28 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1
@2:28 M:206 G

L:0 S:15/18 BuildQueen
@2:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:31 M:79 G:15 L:1 S:17/18 ExtractorTrick
@2:32 Spawned: Drone+1
@2:33 Spawned: Extractor Trick Finished, Drone Restored
@2:35 M:107 G:22 L:1 S:17/18 BuildOverlord
@2:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@2:45 M

3 G:41 L:1 S:17/18 BuildDrone
@3:00 Spawned: Overlord+1
@3:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:02 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:02 M:190 G:74 L:1 S:18/26 BuildRoachWarren
@3:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:18 Spawned: Queen+1
@3:18 M:177 G:104 L:2 S:17/26 BuildLair
@3:21 M:53 G:10 L:2 S:17/26 BuildDrone
@3:27 M:55 G:21 L:1 S:18/26 BuildDrone
@3:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:33 M:56 G:33 L:1 S:19/26 BuildDrone
@3:38 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:44 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:45 Spawned: Larva+1
@3:45 M:116 G:55 L:1 S:20/26 BuildOverlord
@3:50 Spawned: Drone+1
@3:57 Spawned: Roach Warren+1
@4:00 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:00 M:172 G:84 L:1 S:20/26 BuildDrone
@4:03 Spawned: Larva+4
@4:03 M:153 G

0 L:4 S:21/26 BuildZergling
@4:03 M:103 G

0 L:3 S:22/26 BuildRoach
@4:08 M:81 G:74 L:2 S:24/26 BuildRoach
@4:10 Spawned: Overlord+1
@4:13 M:59 G:59 L:1 S:26/34 BuildZergling
@4:15 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:17 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:17 M:52 G:66 L:1 S:27/34 BuildDrone
@4:27 Spawned: Zergling+2
@4:30 Spawned: Roach+1
@4:30 Spawned: Larva+1
@4:34 Spawned: Drone+1
@4:35 Spawned: Roach+1
@4:37 Spawned: Zergling+2
@4:38 Spawned: Lairs+1
Satisfied.
Number of actions in build order: 39
---Final Output---
At time: 4:38
Minerals: 238 Gas: 106 Supply: 28/34
Drones: 20
Overlords: 4
Queens: 1
Zerglings: 4
Roaches: 2
Lairs: 1
Gas Extractors: 1
Spawning Pools: 1
Roach Warrens: 1

I wish I understood zerg more, I'd be able to utilize this tool better. I'm a low diamond zergling t.t.

HeroFighter

United States51 Posts

October 24 2010 16:13 GMT

#612

are there plans to make a terran and protoss build optimizer?

Utena

United States32 Posts

October 24 2010 16:14 GMT

#613

This is currently in the test release in development.

Dionyseus

United States2068 Posts

October 24 2010 16:14 GMT

#614

On October 25 2010 01:13 HeroFighter wrote:
are there plans to make a terran and protoss build optimizer?

This question has been asked a lot of times with no answer from the author so I think it's obvious now that the terran and protoss versions will not be coming from Lorimar, but because he made this project open source someone else can definitely do the terran and protoss version, hopefully soon.

Sten

United States7 Posts

October 24 2010 16:25 GMT

#615

This is extremely neat. Thank you, Lorimar!

Incidentally, regarding the few cries of "omg you're breaking the metagame" I'm seeing, I think you are drastically, drastically underestimating the complexity of SC2 if you think this is in any way true (and if it was true, it would frankly mean that SC2 kinda sucked). This tool has serious potential to be useful as a means of optimizing a given strategy, but figuring out what strategy to optimize is always going to be the interesting part, imho. This is just an awesome tool doing some gruntwork, and in doing so it allows people to be creative and test out new ideas without having to take a huge amount of time to figure out the optimal way to experiment with that idea. It's a good thing, imho.

Klimpen

New Zealand100 Posts

October 24 2010 16:25 GMT

#616

On October 24 2010 17:46 Roblin wrote:Edit: @icezar
it probably prefers early pool to get the queen really fast, which boosts the larvae production from (1 larvae per 10 seconds) to (8 larvae per 40 seconds) = (2 larvae per 10 seconds)

Correction, Hatch is 1/15s, Queen is 4/40s. 10/minute in total.

azzu

Germany141 Posts

October 24 2010 17:05 GMT

#617

On October 25 2010 01:13 HeroFighter wrote:
are there plans to make a terran and protoss build optimizer?

he said he wanted to make them too, but they're harder than zerg and he plays zerg, so he will finish zerg first

On October 25 2010 01:25 Klimpen wrote:

Show nested quote +

Correction, Hatch is 1/15s, Queen is 4/40s. 10/minute in total.

actually a queen only injects every 45 seconds, because a queen regenerates 25 energy in 45 seconds.
This means it boosts the larvae production from 3 every 45 seconds to 4 every 45 seconds. Also a queen only costs 150 minerals for this boost, a hatch costs 300. (if it builds the spawning pool just for the queen, the first queen costs 200 extra)^^

redviper

Pakistan2333 Posts

October 24 2010 17:32 GMT

#618

One additional thing in the final output would be to have the number of available larva. Its kept track off but not reported though I can count them by going through the BO.

Catyoul

France2377 Posts

October 24 2010 17:38 GMT

#619

I just started using it, very nice job.
I am going to play with the code a little. I want to include the possibility of transferring minerals/gas to your ally as a constraint.

Pwere

Canada1557 Posts

October 24 2010 18:24 GMT

#620

On October 25 2010 02:05 azzu wrote:actually a queen only injects every 45 seconds, because a queen regenerates 25 energy in 45 seconds.
This means it boosts the larvae production from 3 every 45 seconds to 4 every 45 seconds. Also a queen only costs 150 minerals for this boost, a hatch costs 300. (if it builds the spawning pool just for the queen, the first queen costs 200 extra)^^

But the hatchery stops naturally spawning larvae whenever it's at 3 or more, so the boost from the queen is slightly less than that in practice.

A hatch costs 350 and one larva since you need a drone, however it gives 2 supplies instead of taking two supplies, plus the added creep and no babysitting.

On another note, I think one or two seconds should be added to the build time of any drone to factor in the initial walk distance when it spawns. I think this is the easiest way to make the builds closer to their in-practice times.

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