• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:18
CEST 19:18
KST 02:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 785 users

Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 58 Next
Adeny
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway1233 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 12:39:29
October 22 2010 12:35 GMT
#401
Final WP: 7 drones.
2 million games played and running, dunno this algorithm seems stupid.

Edit: Why does it always assume I want a spawning pool, if I only want drones/ovies?
SwampZero
Profile Joined September 2010
Greece350 Posts
October 22 2010 12:37 GMT
#402
On October 22 2010 21:33 Existor wrote:
But I dont want roaches (as example) and want to find fastest Build Order for 50 lings. Why it builts me Roach Warren, if I dont want roaches in any waypoint and final ?


Roach Warren is by accident a genetic trait of a lot of the successful build orders that are used to generate the next one.

Give it more time, theoretically it will breed itself to extinction.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 12:50:30
October 22 2010 12:42 GMT
#403
Roach Warren is by accident a genetic trait of a lot of the successful build orders that are used to generate the next one.

Give it more time, theoretically it will breed itself to extinction.

I understand this, but I don't want to build roaches and want only zerglings.

P.S. Can we change number of processors or it will crash real processor?


EDIT: nvm, after some restarts there are no more Roach Warrens with lings only
teemh
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada120 Posts
October 22 2010 12:45 GMT
#404
It needs an "at least X after build complete" box for both minerals and gas to be added to the build requirements.
voss
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia146 Posts
October 22 2010 12:48 GMT
#405
Lomilar... do you play on NA or SEA server? If so, can I add you as a friend so that I may send messages of how great you are to you?

thx.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 12:54:16
October 22 2010 12:49 GMT
#406
Build Order Optimizer + http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/ = will be FTW

What do you think about this idea?
Rosvall
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden122 Posts
October 22 2010 12:57 GMT
#407
On October 22 2010 21:45 teemh wrote:
It needs an "at least X after build complete" box for both minerals and gas to be added to the build requirements.


Indirectly there is. You can set how many extractors to build and drones on minerals and then just count backwards. All constants are in the code.


Also, it values stuff, like there's a larger chance that a BO will build one drone than one evo chamber. These are constants and doesn't change depending on your input. So there's the same chance it will build a roach warren if you only want to build lings as there is if you only want to build roaches. The difference though is when the chromosome mutates it will find that a BO without roach warren is better and discard the old build.
RTP
Rosvall
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden122 Posts
October 22 2010 12:58 GMT
#408
On October 22 2010 21:49 Existor wrote:
Build Order Optimizer + http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/ = will be FTW

What do you think about this idea?


Have you actually looked at the output?
RTP
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:03:25
October 22 2010 13:01 GMT
#409


Have you actually looked at the output?

WHat you mean? I said, that it will be great to see both services in one: good interface, timings, queen's energy, how many minerals we have for every moment, better view for build orders, etc etc
Kagami-sama
Profile Joined September 2010
460 Posts
October 22 2010 13:08 GMT
#410
On October 13 2010 08:58 Lomilar wrote:
Update: Hope to have a version out by end of week.

It is out! http://code.google.com/p/evolutionchamber



A strange game.

The only winning move is not to play Zerg.

How about a nice game of chess?
RobiTL
Profile Joined July 2010
France55 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:20:51
October 22 2010 13:18 GMT
#411
I just made some tests with the program if it interests anyone,
apparently, <= 23 roaches = only 1 Hatchery, >= 24 roaches, it decides it needs another Hatchery.
Try it yourself if you want ^^

Just thought it was a bit interesting and that a 23 roaches might be the most efficient roach push off 1 base.

Also, when it decides to do another hatchery, it has to make a bunch more drones in order to pay back the investment I guess.

Here is the summary (might not be the best builds because I stopped them at like 10-15 minutes, but still gives a broad idea I think)
+ Show Spoiler +
9 roaches : 15 drones : 4:55
12SP,15E,15RW,14O,16Q,16O

10 roaches : 15 drones : 5:10
15SP,15E,15O,15O,15RW,14Q

11 roaches : 15 drones : 5:21
15SP,15E,15O,15O,15RW,14Q

20 roaches : 16 drones : 6:52
10O,16E,16SP,18O,18RW,16Q,19O,19O,19O,19O,35E

23 roaches : 19 drones : 7:18
10O,13E,14SP,17O,16Q,21O,21RW,20O,20O,20O,45O

==== additional hatchery starting from here ====

24 roaches : 27 drones : 7:42
10O,13E,16SP,17O,18H,17Q,22RW,26O,28O,....

25 roaches : 25 drones : 7:44
10O,13E,16SP,17O,18H,17Q,22RW,26O,30O,44O,44O,48O,62O

26 roaches : 24 drones : 7:54
10O,13E,16SP,17O,18H,17Q,21RW,26O,30O,44O,44O,50O,64O

32 roaches : 26 drones : 8:30
10O,15SP,15E,15O,17Q,19H,22RW,26O,39O,39O,41O,41O,41O,47O,47E
Born to be Zerg
tetracycloide
Profile Joined July 2010
295 Posts
October 22 2010 13:24 GMT
#412
It would be nice if we could manually seed the generator with what we think is the most optimal build first. For example, if I want the fastest build that gets me 14 drones I know said build will never include a spawning pool but no queens so it would be nice if I could relay that information as an input because the algorithm takes a lot longer to make that determination than I do.
My vanity is justified
teemh
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada120 Posts
October 22 2010 13:25 GMT
#413
It keeps trying to use the 10/10 overlord then extractor trick. This doesn't seem right to me. You lose 6 minerals by canceling. Even assuming 11/10 drone was hatched fast enough to gather one mineral, that's only 5 a net loss of 1. With this in mind, you can argue that it's just front loading minerals, more earlier less later but I wonder if we'd get more realistic builds out if the extractor trick wasn't used?
RobiTL
Profile Joined July 2010
France55 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:31:20
October 22 2010 13:29 GMT
#414
On October 22 2010 22:25 teemh wrote:
It keeps trying to use the 10/10 overlord then extractor trick. This doesn't seem right to me. You lose 6 minerals by canceling. Even assuming 11/10 drone was hatched fast enough to gather one mineral, that's only 5 a net loss of 1. With this in mind, you can argue that it's just front loading minerals, more earlier less later but I wonder if we'd get more realistic builds out if the extractor trick wasn't used?


I think it's in order to lose the least larva possible (if you have 3 larvaes, you're basically LOSING larvas, you should count for that). So a 10over extractor trick is better than 10over no trick.
However, to compare with the 9over, that's a bit tougher…

edit : (also the program doesn't take into account the movement time for the drone to go build the extractor, and come back, so in practice, the program might also be wrong about the 10over extractor trick)
Born to be Zerg
poppahorse
Profile Joined October 2010
2 Posts
October 22 2010 13:38 GMT
#415
this build order site is better - http://www.starcraft2buildorder.net/
chumpchous
Profile Joined September 2010
68 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:52:13
October 22 2010 13:39 GMT
#416
This is basically the coolest thing ever, I love watching it think.

I love giving it an initial waypoint that initially favors something like a 6 pool, you know, just get me 6 lings by 4 minutes.

Then make the following waypoint something that demands some early economy.

At first it goes "oh great! 6 pool, easy: spawning pool, lings" and your outputted drone count is really low. Then over time it ads more and more drones to your first waypoint as it realizes it gets more success in the next waypoint that way.

This thing is awesome.

Does it know how to remove drones from gas? It seems that it generally likes to just leave them on, even when it is clearly no longer beneficial.


It would be nice if we could manually seed the generator with what we think is the most optimal build first. For example, if I want the fastest build that gets me 14 drones I know said build will never include a spawning pool but no queens so it would be nice if I could relay that information as an input because the algorithm takes a lot longer to make that determination than I do.

Well, you can to a certain degree. If you just require to have two hatcheries by the 4 minute mark as one of your first waypoints, it will utilize the hatchery in meeting your following waypoints.

Deleted_143
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia256 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:59:21
October 22 2010 13:51 GMT
#417
--- Nuked ---
Ahelvin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France1866 Posts
October 22 2010 13:51 GMT
#418
The reason why it may assume a spawning pool is because it is based on a genetic algorithm (it evaluates the "fitness" of each scenario according to a given evaluation function and sort the scenarios accordingly).

I believe the evaluation function is taking into account the completion time, but also the number of mineral/gas remaining. Thus if you want to make only drones and overloard, you will stockpile minerals eventually, minerals that could be used to make a spawning pool. Thus the program could chose to favour a scenario in which there is a spawning pool, because the fitness would be higher.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP?
Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).
icezar
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany240 Posts
October 22 2010 13:53 GMT
#419
On October 22 2010 22:38 poppahorse wrote:
this build order site is better - http://www.starcraft2buildorder.net/


Boy, that is a really bad site!
I just can`t believe you wrote that, anyway.....
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 14:02:50
October 22 2010 14:02 GMT
#420
do i need to have the game in order to run it? i am trying it on my laptop and it wont load up D:
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 58 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 2 - Final
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Reynor vs LamboLIVE!
Clem vs TBD
RotterdaM2628
ComeBackTV 1966
IndyStarCraft 686
WardiTV449
CranKy Ducklings222
3DClanTV 157
Rex129
EnkiAlexander 43
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2628
IndyStarCraft 686
Rex 129
Vindicta 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 35129
Barracks 1114
Larva 995
Nal_rA 751
BeSt 440
Shine 377
firebathero 292
Stork 282
Soulkey 144
Hyun 77
[ Show more ]
sorry 42
sSak 34
yabsab 25
Free 24
Terrorterran 21
IntoTheRainbow 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7198
qojqva3967
420jenkins425
Counter-Strike
fl0m3653
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor596
Liquid`Hasu392
Other Games
B2W.Neo361
Hui .221
KnowMe125
QueenE95
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1606
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 44
• HeavenSC 43
• iHatsuTV 10
• Legendk 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki20
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Nemesis2356
• WagamamaTV728
League of Legends
• Jankos2011
Other Games
• imaqtpie91
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
42m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
17h 42m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 16h
WardiTV European League
1d 22h
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.