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Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 58 Next
Adeny
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway1233 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 12:39:29
October 22 2010 12:35 GMT
#401
Final WP: 7 drones.
2 million games played and running, dunno this algorithm seems stupid.

Edit: Why does it always assume I want a spawning pool, if I only want drones/ovies?
SwampZero
Profile Joined September 2010
Greece350 Posts
October 22 2010 12:37 GMT
#402
On October 22 2010 21:33 Existor wrote:
But I dont want roaches (as example) and want to find fastest Build Order for 50 lings. Why it builts me Roach Warren, if I dont want roaches in any waypoint and final ?


Roach Warren is by accident a genetic trait of a lot of the successful build orders that are used to generate the next one.

Give it more time, theoretically it will breed itself to extinction.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 12:50:30
October 22 2010 12:42 GMT
#403
Roach Warren is by accident a genetic trait of a lot of the successful build orders that are used to generate the next one.

Give it more time, theoretically it will breed itself to extinction.

I understand this, but I don't want to build roaches and want only zerglings.

P.S. Can we change number of processors or it will crash real processor?


EDIT: nvm, after some restarts there are no more Roach Warrens with lings only
teemh
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada120 Posts
October 22 2010 12:45 GMT
#404
It needs an "at least X after build complete" box for both minerals and gas to be added to the build requirements.
voss
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia146 Posts
October 22 2010 12:48 GMT
#405
Lomilar... do you play on NA or SEA server? If so, can I add you as a friend so that I may send messages of how great you are to you?

thx.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 12:54:16
October 22 2010 12:49 GMT
#406
Build Order Optimizer + http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/ = will be FTW

What do you think about this idea?
Rosvall
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden122 Posts
October 22 2010 12:57 GMT
#407
On October 22 2010 21:45 teemh wrote:
It needs an "at least X after build complete" box for both minerals and gas to be added to the build requirements.


Indirectly there is. You can set how many extractors to build and drones on minerals and then just count backwards. All constants are in the code.


Also, it values stuff, like there's a larger chance that a BO will build one drone than one evo chamber. These are constants and doesn't change depending on your input. So there's the same chance it will build a roach warren if you only want to build lings as there is if you only want to build roaches. The difference though is when the chromosome mutates it will find that a BO without roach warren is better and discard the old build.
RTP
Rosvall
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden122 Posts
October 22 2010 12:58 GMT
#408
On October 22 2010 21:49 Existor wrote:
Build Order Optimizer + http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/ = will be FTW

What do you think about this idea?


Have you actually looked at the output?
RTP
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:03:25
October 22 2010 13:01 GMT
#409


Have you actually looked at the output?

WHat you mean? I said, that it will be great to see both services in one: good interface, timings, queen's energy, how many minerals we have for every moment, better view for build orders, etc etc
Kagami-sama
Profile Joined September 2010
460 Posts
October 22 2010 13:08 GMT
#410
On October 13 2010 08:58 Lomilar wrote:
Update: Hope to have a version out by end of week.

It is out! http://code.google.com/p/evolutionchamber



A strange game.

The only winning move is not to play Zerg.

How about a nice game of chess?
RobiTL
Profile Joined July 2010
France55 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:20:51
October 22 2010 13:18 GMT
#411
I just made some tests with the program if it interests anyone,
apparently, <= 23 roaches = only 1 Hatchery, >= 24 roaches, it decides it needs another Hatchery.
Try it yourself if you want ^^

Just thought it was a bit interesting and that a 23 roaches might be the most efficient roach push off 1 base.

Also, when it decides to do another hatchery, it has to make a bunch more drones in order to pay back the investment I guess.

Here is the summary (might not be the best builds because I stopped them at like 10-15 minutes, but still gives a broad idea I think)
+ Show Spoiler +
9 roaches : 15 drones : 4:55
12SP,15E,15RW,14O,16Q,16O

10 roaches : 15 drones : 5:10
15SP,15E,15O,15O,15RW,14Q

11 roaches : 15 drones : 5:21
15SP,15E,15O,15O,15RW,14Q

20 roaches : 16 drones : 6:52
10O,16E,16SP,18O,18RW,16Q,19O,19O,19O,19O,35E

23 roaches : 19 drones : 7:18
10O,13E,14SP,17O,16Q,21O,21RW,20O,20O,20O,45O

==== additional hatchery starting from here ====

24 roaches : 27 drones : 7:42
10O,13E,16SP,17O,18H,17Q,22RW,26O,28O,....

25 roaches : 25 drones : 7:44
10O,13E,16SP,17O,18H,17Q,22RW,26O,30O,44O,44O,48O,62O

26 roaches : 24 drones : 7:54
10O,13E,16SP,17O,18H,17Q,21RW,26O,30O,44O,44O,50O,64O

32 roaches : 26 drones : 8:30
10O,15SP,15E,15O,17Q,19H,22RW,26O,39O,39O,41O,41O,41O,47O,47E
Born to be Zerg
tetracycloide
Profile Joined July 2010
295 Posts
October 22 2010 13:24 GMT
#412
It would be nice if we could manually seed the generator with what we think is the most optimal build first. For example, if I want the fastest build that gets me 14 drones I know said build will never include a spawning pool but no queens so it would be nice if I could relay that information as an input because the algorithm takes a lot longer to make that determination than I do.
My vanity is justified
teemh
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada120 Posts
October 22 2010 13:25 GMT
#413
It keeps trying to use the 10/10 overlord then extractor trick. This doesn't seem right to me. You lose 6 minerals by canceling. Even assuming 11/10 drone was hatched fast enough to gather one mineral, that's only 5 a net loss of 1. With this in mind, you can argue that it's just front loading minerals, more earlier less later but I wonder if we'd get more realistic builds out if the extractor trick wasn't used?
RobiTL
Profile Joined July 2010
France55 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:31:20
October 22 2010 13:29 GMT
#414
On October 22 2010 22:25 teemh wrote:
It keeps trying to use the 10/10 overlord then extractor trick. This doesn't seem right to me. You lose 6 minerals by canceling. Even assuming 11/10 drone was hatched fast enough to gather one mineral, that's only 5 a net loss of 1. With this in mind, you can argue that it's just front loading minerals, more earlier less later but I wonder if we'd get more realistic builds out if the extractor trick wasn't used?


I think it's in order to lose the least larva possible (if you have 3 larvaes, you're basically LOSING larvas, you should count for that). So a 10over extractor trick is better than 10over no trick.
However, to compare with the 9over, that's a bit tougher…

edit : (also the program doesn't take into account the movement time for the drone to go build the extractor, and come back, so in practice, the program might also be wrong about the 10over extractor trick)
Born to be Zerg
poppahorse
Profile Joined October 2010
2 Posts
October 22 2010 13:38 GMT
#415
this build order site is better - http://www.starcraft2buildorder.net/
chumpchous
Profile Joined September 2010
68 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:52:13
October 22 2010 13:39 GMT
#416
This is basically the coolest thing ever, I love watching it think.

I love giving it an initial waypoint that initially favors something like a 6 pool, you know, just get me 6 lings by 4 minutes.

Then make the following waypoint something that demands some early economy.

At first it goes "oh great! 6 pool, easy: spawning pool, lings" and your outputted drone count is really low. Then over time it ads more and more drones to your first waypoint as it realizes it gets more success in the next waypoint that way.

This thing is awesome.

Does it know how to remove drones from gas? It seems that it generally likes to just leave them on, even when it is clearly no longer beneficial.


It would be nice if we could manually seed the generator with what we think is the most optimal build first. For example, if I want the fastest build that gets me 14 drones I know said build will never include a spawning pool but no queens so it would be nice if I could relay that information as an input because the algorithm takes a lot longer to make that determination than I do.

Well, you can to a certain degree. If you just require to have two hatcheries by the 4 minute mark as one of your first waypoints, it will utilize the hatchery in meeting your following waypoints.

Deleted_143
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia256 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 13:59:21
October 22 2010 13:51 GMT
#417
--- Nuked ---
Ahelvin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
France1866 Posts
October 22 2010 13:51 GMT
#418
The reason why it may assume a spawning pool is because it is based on a genetic algorithm (it evaluates the "fitness" of each scenario according to a given evaluation function and sort the scenarios accordingly).

I believe the evaluation function is taking into account the completion time, but also the number of mineral/gas remaining. Thus if you want to make only drones and overloard, you will stockpile minerals eventually, minerals that could be used to make a spawning pool. Thus the program could chose to favour a scenario in which there is a spawning pool, because the fitness would be higher.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP?
Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).
icezar
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany240 Posts
October 22 2010 13:53 GMT
#419
On October 22 2010 22:38 poppahorse wrote:
this build order site is better - http://www.starcraft2buildorder.net/


Boy, that is a really bad site!
I just can`t believe you wrote that, anyway.....
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 14:02:50
October 22 2010 14:02 GMT
#420
do i need to have the game in order to run it? i am trying it on my laptop and it wont load up D:
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
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