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Zerg Build Order optimizer. - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 58 Next
Adeny
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway1233 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 15:13:24
October 22 2010 15:11 GMT
#441
Hehehe, 10 extractor 10 pool 10 lair 10 ovie 10 hydraden 9 extractor, followed by 5 hydras. Beware protoss players, I'm coming to kill your gate/cyber/forge, brood war hydra-break style. Sure it leaves me with 8 drones but who cares.

Oh and max 1 roach warren is silly, what if you need speed and claws at the same time? Got to at least be an option for 2
luckyjj10
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada33 Posts
October 22 2010 15:13 GMT
#442
On October 22 2010 23:44 BurningSera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2010 23:03 Ahelvin wrote:
Just read the OP, you have to download JAVA first.


i have the latest 6.22 java!but i never directly run a java apps like this way before.
i tried to open it with javaws in C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre6\bin but it tells me 'Unable to run' with this details:

CouldNotLoadArgumentException[ Could not load file/URL specified: C:\Users\NAME~1\AppData\Local\Temp\javaws6]
at com.sun.javaws.Main.launchApp(Unknown Source)
at com.sun.javaws.Main.continueInSecureThread(Unknown Source)
at com.sun.javaws.Main$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

would appreciate anyone can help me about this. maybe i should try it on my desktop.


That's what happens when you try to run a desktop application with java web start.
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 15:30:56
October 22 2010 15:17 GMT
#443
after 2.5 hours 50 speedlings is off 13 drones, seems to be a larvae deficiency too
since you can pull drones off gas i think i could do this better :D

so how do the processor ages work in the program?
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
OverLulz
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany75 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 15:22:26
October 22 2010 15:18 GMT
#444
lol btw, what comes into my mind staring at the programm... has anyone played progress quest? :D
http://progressquest.com/
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 15:28:42
October 22 2010 15:25 GMT
#445
@author of this project:

Can you contact with creator of "Build Order Calculator" and ask him about including your project to calculator? What if we're need to correct generated build order in this calculator


On October 23 2010 00:11 Adeny wrote:
Hehehe, 10 extractor 10 pool 10 lair 10 ovie 10 hydraden 9 extractor, followed by 5 hydras. Beware protoss players, I'm coming to kill your gate/cyber/forge, brood war hydra-break style. Sure it leaves me with 8 drones but who cares.

Oh and max 1 roach warren is silly, what if you need speed and claws at the same time? Got to at least be an option for 2

Then mark in requests, that you're need 1 or 2 roach warrens



after 2.5 hours 50 speedlings is off 13 drones, seems to be a larvae deficiency too
since you can pull drones off gas i think i could do this better :D

You can correct your build order with taking drones off from extractor with "build order calculator" http://haploid.nl/sc2/build_order/
Loxon
Profile Joined September 2010
United States20 Posts
October 22 2010 15:26 GMT
#446
So will the optimizer create queens if it's not in the waypoints/final? I didn't want to go in to it with too many assumptions. I'm letting it run just to see if it does it on its own for the Spawn Larva (I wasn't sure if the original test had 1 queen as part of the designed output, or whether the optimizer figured out it was the most efficient way to get the larva out.)
chumpchous
Profile Joined September 2010
68 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 15:31:06
October 22 2010 15:26 GMT
#447
On October 23 2010 00:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
after 2.5 hours 50 speedlings is off 13 drones, seems to be a larvae deficiency too
since you can pull drones off gas i think i could do this better :D


Any more than about 10 drones on minerals and you'll float minerals with pure speedling production on one hatch 1 queen.

So will the optimizer create queens if it's not in the waypoints/final? I didn't want to go in to it with too many assumptions. I'm letting it run just to see if it does it on its own for the Spawn Larva (I wasn't sure if the original test had 1 queen as part of the designed output, or whether the optimizer figured out it was the most efficient way to get the larva out.)


Yes, if it is optimal. Contrary to popular belief, queens arent always optimal. It will usually take a while for queens to get generated into the build.
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
October 22 2010 15:32 GMT
#448
On October 23 2010 00:26 chumpchous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 00:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
after 2.5 hours 50 speedlings is off 13 drones, seems to be a larvae deficiency too
since you can pull drones off gas i think i could do this better :D


Any more than about 10 drones on minerals and you'll float minerals with pure speedling production on one hatch 1 queen.
Show nested quote +

So will the optimizer create queens if it's not in the waypoints/final? I didn't want to go in to it with too many assumptions. I'm letting it run just to see if it does it on its own for the Spawn Larva (I wasn't sure if the original test had 1 queen as part of the designed output, or whether the optimizer figured out it was the most efficient way to get the larva out.)


Yes, if it is optimal. Contrary to popular belief, queens arent always optimal. It will usually take a while for queens to get generated into the build.


wouldnt need 13 drones since i only need 100 gas
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
chumpchous
Profile Joined September 2010
68 Posts
October 22 2010 15:37 GMT
#449
On October 23 2010 00:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 00:26 chumpchous wrote:
On October 23 2010 00:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
after 2.5 hours 50 speedlings is off 13 drones, seems to be a larvae deficiency too
since you can pull drones off gas i think i could do this better :D


Any more than about 10 drones on minerals and you'll float minerals with pure speedling production on one hatch 1 queen.

So will the optimizer create queens if it's not in the waypoints/final? I didn't want to go in to it with too many assumptions. I'm letting it run just to see if it does it on its own for the Spawn Larva (I wasn't sure if the original test had 1 queen as part of the designed output, or whether the optimizer figured out it was the most efficient way to get the larva out.)


Yes, if it is optimal. Contrary to popular belief, queens arent always optimal. It will usually take a while for queens to get generated into the build.


wouldnt need 13 drones since i only need 100 gas


Obviously, but as has been noted, the program doesnt know how to pull drones off gas. This is obviously a problem, but I'm sure it will be updated later. I think I was just confused about your question, it sounded like you thought 13 drones was way too few.

The program is still getting you close though. The optimal path to 50 speedlings is going to be something like 10 drones.
duckii
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany1017 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 15:56:18
October 22 2010 15:38 GMT
#450
On October 23 2010 00:26 chumpchous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 00:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
after 2.5 hours 50 speedlings is off 13 drones, seems to be a larvae deficiency too
since you can pull drones off gas i think i could do this better :D


Any more than about 10 drones on minerals and you'll float minerals with pure speedling production on one hatch 1 queen.
Show nested quote +

So will the optimizer create queens if it's not in the waypoints/final? I didn't want to go in to it with too many assumptions. I'm letting it run just to see if it does it on its own for the Spawn Larva (I wasn't sure if the original test had 1 queen as part of the designed output, or whether the optimizer figured out it was the most efficient way to get the larva out.)


Yes, if it is optimal. Contrary to popular belief, queens arent always optimal. It will usually take a while for queens to get generated into the build.


They are not always optimal to get to a certain point fast, but they provide defense, map control (creep) and of course the extra larva. So yeah, unless you are aiming for a razor edge timing push, an early queen is important.
Loxon
Profile Joined September 2010
United States20 Posts
October 22 2010 15:50 GMT
#451
On October 23 2010 00:38 quarky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 00:26 chumpchous wrote:
On October 23 2010 00:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
after 2.5 hours 50 speedlings is off 13 drones, seems to be a larvae deficiency too
since you can pull drones off gas i think i could do this better :D


Any more than about 10 drones on minerals and you'll float minerals with pure speedling production on one hatch 1 queen.

So will the optimizer create queens if it's not in the waypoints/final? I didn't want to go in to it with too many assumptions. I'm letting it run just to see if it does it on its own for the Spawn Larva (I wasn't sure if the original test had 1 queen as part of the designed output, or whether the optimizer figured out it was the most efficient way to get the larva out.)


Yes, if it is optimal. Contrary to popular belief, queens arent always optimal. It will usually take a while for queens to get generated into the build.


They are not always optimal to get to a certain point fast, but they provide defense, map control (creep) and of course the extra larva. So yeah, unless you are aiming for a razor edge timing push, an early queen is important.


Right -- but the program is built to optimize the build order, not optimize the defensive value of a queen. I'm going to try to rebuild it with a queen part of the build itself and see if the timing can work out as well on speedling/muta.

Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 16:04:10
October 22 2010 15:54 GMT
#452
question: does the program ever finish on its own, i.e can it decide a build is as good as its going to get?

additionally, is there a way to disable 200/200 as the max supply since the program cant work out losing units?
just for those of us that want to run something obnoxiously big like 4000 cracklings

edit: oh look two posts down :O
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
chumpchous
Profile Joined September 2010
68 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 15:59:04
October 22 2010 15:57 GMT
#453
On October 23 2010 00:54 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
question: does the program ever finish on its own, i.e can it decide a build is as good as its going to get?


The program will stop automatically at 42 drones.
tetracycloide
Profile Joined July 2010
295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-22 16:05:04
October 22 2010 16:02 GMT
#454
So I seeded the gernerator with the following:

Drones: 200 Deadline: 20:0

It's been running for 2 hours (I'm going to let it keep running since it's still updating the build every minute or two) but so far the results are interesting.

---Final Output---
At time: 10:45
Minerals: 4014 Gas: 0 Supply: 214/214
Drones: 200
Overlords: 25
Queens: 7
Hatcheries: 7
Spawning Pools: 1

It does not use any kind of extractor trick or anything to get to 214/214 so I'm pretty sure the supply cap of 200 simply isn't coded. I know planning out a build to 200 supply is stupid and the program really doesn't need to know there's a supply cap to do any of the things it can do well but it's still, technically I think, a bug.

Might be worth noting that, with this seed of essentialy 100% economy no units, the build it's trying variations of after 2+ hours is 9 overlord, 14 hatch, 15 pool. I like this since it's pretty close to the build being run at the pro level that, essentially, builds nothing but drones until units are absoultely needed, then builds units. It's still updating the build once or twice a minute though, even after 2 hours of running.
My vanity is justified
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
October 22 2010 16:03 GMT
#455
On October 23 2010 00:57 chumpchous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 00:54 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
question: does the program ever finish on its own, i.e can it decide a build is as good as its going to get?


The program will stop automatically at 42 drones.


why would it do that?
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
zyo
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada5 Posts
October 22 2010 16:04 GMT
#456
I've try the program, I like the idea of running many game and doing try an error.

I did make a test
8 minutes.
I want 15 drones, 5 overloard, 1 queen, 2 zerling and 4 roach.

Here is the result I've got.


Failed to meet waypoint. BuildOverlord
At time: 8:00
Minerals: 84 Gas: 0 Supply: 39/270
Drones: 39
Overlords: 32
Hatcheries: 7

Why he can't do it... but doing 7 hatchery and 32 overlord???? The program should not do more than ask but rather find the shortest to do what is asked...
Mr Mauve
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom386 Posts
October 22 2010 16:05 GMT
#457
I don't think it accepts "Gas Extractor" as a valid target: ask it to build one, and it'll say "satisfied" whatever it does.

I'm wondering what the opportunity costs of early rushes might be, by e.g. comparing "6 zerglings as fast as possible" with "2 saturated bases as fast as possible" and points in-between, including "6 zerglings by 2:15 and then 2 saturated bases as fast as possible". Everyone says "it hurts your economy" but it'd be nice to know by how much.
Hello! How are you today?
Artificial
Profile Joined April 2010
United States4 Posts
October 22 2010 16:05 GMT
#458
---Waypoint 1---
At time: 6:00
Minerals: 73 Gas: 198 Supply: 35/36
Drones: 25
Overlords: 4
Roaches: 3
Lairs: 1
Gas Extractors: 3
Spawning Pools: 1
Roach Warrens: 1
Evolution Chambers: 1


Seems there is an oversight in how many gas geysers there are per hatchery, since long distance gas mining cant be accounted for.

Otherwise super amazing program
If youre afraid to crush the ants beneath you...you cannot walk.
tetracycloide
Profile Joined July 2010
295 Posts
October 22 2010 16:22 GMT
#459
On October 23 2010 01:05 Mr Mauve wrote:
I don't think it accepts "Gas Extractor" as a valid target: ask it to build one, and it'll say "satisfied" whatever it does.

I'm wondering what the opportunity costs of early rushes might be, by e.g. comparing "6 zerglings as fast as possible" with "2 saturated bases as fast as possible" and points in-between, including "6 zerglings by 2:15 and then 2 saturated bases as fast as possible". Everyone says "it hurts your economy" but it'd be nice to know by how much.

I was actually after an answer to that exact same question when I seeded it with 200 drones by time 20 mins. It looks like any kind of 'fastest to x amount of units' build is sacrificing early economy for efficency since, eventually, a pure econ build will settle on hatch before pool and overlord on 9 as being optimal while pretty much every build I've seen that includes units goes 10 overpool with hatch afterward if at all.
My vanity is justified
icezar
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany240 Posts
October 22 2010 16:45 GMT
#460
Well... I am running 1Hatch 1Lair 44Drones 4Extractor for about 8h now - this i think it is a full saturated 2 Base that you want to get ASAP in game

It has a problem that it ignores the 4Extractor and only build 1 but beside that it goes like:

10 OV
10 ET
11 SP
16 OV
16 Q
18 H
19 Ex
20 Q
23 OV
29 Lair
33 OV
38 OV
Done by 6:02 !!!! and i get also a RW somewhere casu it seems it has something for RWs :-)
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