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JimRocky
United States14 Posts
You could certainly use it in a game against a buddy where you both agreed on a match to see who could get the first 20 ultralisks, (or whatever), out first. Then after you win, show him the program too. But besides that silly use, it would just be very interesting to see what came up for various inputs. | ||
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SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
On October 14 2010 05:30 Aberu wrote: Let's say you get 7 roaches super fast thanks to this. But then he went just a few marauders, and held off the attack. Your economy now sucks, and you lose. That's why this isn't as amazing as the OP is claming it to be. No build can be ironed out in this way. There is no godlike build in Starcraft. It's not like Red Alert 2 was (where literally you had to get 3 tanks as fast as possible and push out and reinforce in Soviet vs Soviet, or you lost). LETS SAY YOU GIVE ME THIS FORK THEN I TRY TO CUT BREAD WITH IT IT WONT CUT THE BREAD YOUR FORK IS SHIT MAN WHAT HTE FUCK | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
We've been stating that over and over in this thread, but some people just don't get it. The roach was an example, you can use this to optimize ANY build order with ANY combination of units. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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tetracycloide
295 Posts
On October 14 2010 03:25 Phrencys wrote: @tetracycloide just because you don't have 0min/0gas after reaching your goal doesn't mean that the build isn't optimized to get the mutas ASAP. That's true but it's also not what I said. The sticking point isn't that it's not at 0/0 but that it's at 0/x. It's patently obvious that if you're mineral limited while rushing for mutas there are too many workers mining gas. If the build had a surplus of minerals but just enough gas then it could still be 'fastest' but it's not possible for the reverse to be true given the relative mining rates of each resource per base. | ||
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gustavo
Brazil38 Posts
I don't think theres that many builds specially when you disconsider the obvious silly builds. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
It's not realistic. At best it would be a worse version of heal meters in WoW. "Yeah dude ur so bad u got ur 7th roach out at 4:42 instead of 4:40 that's why u lost" | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On October 14 2010 08:48 Eknoid4 wrote: this really is not as special or significant as this thread makes it seem. It's not realistic. At best it would be a worse version of heal meters in WoW. "Yeah dude ur so bad u got ur 7th roach out at 4:42 instead of 4:40 that's why u lost" Believe it or not for pros 1 second can be enough time to be the reason why you won or lost. | ||
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Taniard
United States114 Posts
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Lomilar
United States130 Posts
Whomever is interested in helping, there will be props. I/We will get a build out with some functionality as soon as possible. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Chroniel
Germany46 Posts
On October 14 2010 08:43 gustavo wrote: Wouldn't mapping every possible build up to say 25min of game and then building a DB be more efficient than what you're doing? I don't think theres that many builds specially when you disconsider the obvious silly builds. That's probably possible... if you let your PC calculate this for around 10 years and then spend the next 30 years disconsidering all the "silly" builds by yourself. Up to 25 minutes? Are you kidding? | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On October 14 2010 08:54 Dionyseus wrote: Believe it or not for pros 1 second can be enough time to be the reason why you won or lost. Believe it or not pros would still have to figure out how this build actually holds up in real combat which means practicing it regardless of the computer's "perfect timing" So they'd be back to where they are now. Working the kinks out of builds they've tried. Having a computer program spit out a time wouldn't help any pro more than playing it against another pro would. | ||
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tetracycloide
295 Posts
On October 14 2010 09:29 Eknoid4 wrote: Believe it or not pros would still have to figure out how this build actually holds up in real combat which means practicing it regardless of the computer's "perfect timing" So they'd be back to where they are now. Working the kinks out of builds they've tried. Having a computer program spit out a time wouldn't help any pro more than playing it against another pro would. I think you're missing the point. If a pro wants to know 'can I squeeze an extra X in at Y time' then this is a way more cost efficient way to determine that then practicing it. It's like video taping movements in other sports and analyzing it to look for inefficiencies of movement you'd never notice without the aid of a machine. Which is, believe it or not, pretty common in many sports. It's not there to teach you how to read opponents or how to react in game or even to show what the 'best' build is for any given situation. It's simply a tool that, once polished enough to be useful, could reveal some efficiency flaws in any given set of play. | ||
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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gustavo
Brazil38 Posts
That's probably possible... if you let your PC calculate this for around 10 years and then spend the next 30 years disconsidering all the "silly" builds by yourself. Up to 25 minutes? Are you kidding? I'm going to code it, you're vastly overestimating the number of possibilities, as for the "silly" builds I dont need to look to check if its a silly build I can simply take it out a plethora of them by inserting rules such as dont build overlords if supply left >20 , dont expand more than x before x minutes etccc... Computers are really powerful these days, it will definitely not take years ;D | ||
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Delarchon
Finland132 Posts
But it won't change the game or spoil it. It's kinda like in chess you still have to study the openings to know them and be able to react to the opponents moves. If you just follow some steps and really don't understand what you are doing you will lose. Don't know much about programming but i'm sure that these kind of AI's are capable of adjusting the goals and reacting to scouting info for the best result but as long as it's not able to do it and answer while the game is running it's just a tool. | ||
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Chroniel
Germany46 Posts
On October 14 2010 09:47 gustavo wrote: I'm going to code it, you're vastly overestimating the number of possibilities, as for the "silly" builds I dont need to look to check if its a silly build I can simply take it out a plethora of them by inserting rules such as dont build overlords if supply left >20 , dont expand more than x before x minutes etccc... Computers are really powerful these days, it will definitely not take years ;D If you mix in spine crawlers, upgrades etc. I am pretty sure you are underestimating that number - that is if you don't add a whole bunch of additional rules. While a rule like don't make OL while supply left > 20 helps, the number of possibilities still range into the Billions if my math isn't completely off. EDIT: Even Billions is a huge underestimation - not all units are buildable in the beginning but over the course of the game we can probably consider about 15 different possibilities for each supply point, when you build a spine crawler etc. it frees another supply, so the number is probably even bigger - but if we take this we are looking at a rough estimate of 15^200 possibilities... good luck at enforcing any rules on that number. | ||
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universalwill
United States654 Posts
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gustavo
Brazil38 Posts
EDIT: Even Billions is a huge underestimation - not all units are buildable in the beginning but over the course of the game we can probably consider about 15 different possibilities for each supply point, when you build a spine crawler etc. it frees another supply, so the number is probably even bigger - but if we take this we are looking at a rough estimate of 15^200 possibilities... good luck at enforcing any rules on that number. Builds all derive one from another - I'm not going to simulate every build from scratch, and yes I think 25 minutes is probably going to take too long and really not that useful I'll be shooting for something smaller at first for sure. | ||
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