EPT[GSL Spoiler] What has... - Page 9
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Mecha71
United States59 Posts
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Kishkumen
United States650 Posts
On October 03 2010 13:38 tomatriedes wrote: No player will ever be perfect. Of course creep spreading is good but no matter how skilled you are you only have a limited amount of APM/time and if you focus too much on creep it may limit other aspects of your game. I think cool has shown that, if it's possible to win so convincingly without spreading creep so much maybe some of the other top zergs are getting too bogged down in spreading creep and being slower in their base defense, macro etc as a result. I'm no pro player so I can't speak to the reality of this, but it seems like creep spread shouldn't be an incredible amount of APM/multitask commitment, comparatively speaking. I mean, we're talking about ex-Brood War pros here, who didn't have automine, unlimited control groups, or MBS and still managed to defend their base and all that. I think if you asked IdrA, he would say that creep spread is never a waste of time/APM at the pro level. I have literally never heard a top Zerg player say that you should spend less time spreading creep. The only thing I've ever heard is criticism for not spending enough time spreading the creep. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
But Idra does spread his creeps very, very deligently, you can see that in an idra game his creep is far more coverage than the other zergs. The problem isn't "oh idra spent too much time spreading creeps therefore he lacks in other aspects" It's more like cool is just so much better at the other aspects. | ||
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fantomex
United States313 Posts
It should be obvious to everyone that spreading creep at the expense of catching drops is a bad idea. But I'm not convinced by GSL1 that its an either/or proposition for these players. | ||
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piroko139
United States261 Posts
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Pfhor
123 Posts
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
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divertiti
Canada106 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
On October 03 2010 15:58 Sultan.P wrote: C'mon man! Rainbow did two tank drops and Fruit stopped them with lots of class. Look at that game on kulas for example. Even the commentators were so pumped to see how the tank drop would succeed, it almost seemed that cool would be behind by loosing an expo and out of nowhere a nydus appears in rainbow's base and catches him totally off guard. That has to be an example of cool "winning" the game. Oh of course, the way he handled both drops on LT and kulas was great. But that could have been solved through practice. He knew tank drops were strong on LT, so he has 2 spines ready to go. On kulas, once he decided to take that gold, i am sure he had an anti-tank drop strat practiced. But the t played so bland and boring everygame, i can't hero-worship the fruitman like most of tl. Cools late game was spectaculer, but it was almost like watching a FMP considering how untouched he went. The terran did absolutly nothing impressive the entire series. He never pressured cool, ever. He just seige mode'd his way to 3 base, while trying fail attempts at drop harrasing, 15 minutes into the game. Did cool, deserve to win the GSL? Sure. Did he do so impressively? Not to me. Did he have flashes of brilliance? Definitely. Did he have to face the arsenal of terran openings? Not even close. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
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MetalSlug
Germany443 Posts
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attackfighter
Canada308 Posts
On October 03 2010 16:27 Kishkumen wrote: I'm no pro player so I can't speak to the reality of this, but it seems like creep spread shouldn't be an incredible amount of APM/multitask commitment, comparatively speaking. I mean, we're talking about ex-Brood War pros here, who didn't have automine, unlimited control groups, or MBS and still managed to defend their base and all that. I think if you asked IdrA, he would say that creep spread is never a waste of time/APM at the pro level. I have literally never heard a top Zerg player say that you should spend less time spreading creep. The only thing I've ever heard is criticism for not spending enough time spreading the creep. idra sometimes misses production cycles and his overlord placement/scouting in general is subpar. he also rarely ever puts on any pressure, so his attention is entirely devoted to macro yet he still makes mistakes. also I've never said a top zerg mention spreading creep at all, but I'm sure they'd tell you to do it when you can, but not to focus too much energy on it thinking it'll auto-win the game or something. ----- on an unrelated note, today on ladder I encountered like 5 zergs and only 2 terrans. looks like a bunch of people are hopping on the zerg bandwagon now that Cool's won, lol | ||
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kOre
Canada3642 Posts
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mangoloid
100 Posts
1) preparing for harass -- I know there are a lot of people who complain that Terran has too many early options, especially regarding harass, but as a Terran player I feel that there are only a few "viable" harasses per map/race match-up. An ineffective harass is a serious blow to the harasser. Watching Fruit Dealer, he seemed to have all the obvious harass options at his fingertips, and all it took was minimal scouting to tell him which his opponent was going. A lot of people have called him "psychic," but it's just good game sense. It's important to prepare for harass and practice for it. Something as simple (and clever) as roaches at the back of the high ground will turn the game in your favor. 2) zerg mobility -- Fruit Dealer really knows how to abuse mobility, something I have seen few other top zergs do, even tho mobility is one of the race's major advantages. Several parts to this: First, it allows zerg to expand like crazy. If you have slings and mutas out, bouncing back and forth between bases is no problem. Another advantage for zerg here is that hatcheries double as army production, so when you have a new hatch up you automatically have the production building to reinforce it (with any unit you want). The other races don't have this. It felt so right to see Fruit Dealer mass expanding, and I never felt that his expos were in too much danger at all. Second, when there is a large Terran army in the center of the map, attack where the army isn't. Fruit Dealer did this time and again and it was so refreshing. Tanks, Thors, rines are closing in on his base -- he throws up a nydus or does a drop in his opponents main and that massive army has to stagger back home (but can't get there before half of it is gone). It's so painful to watch other zerg's who suicide their forces against an incoming army. We've figured out by now that a maxed T or P army is stronger than a maxed Z army, so head on engagements is always a mistake. But zerg has the mobility to get better positioning or to attack the weak points on the map. Fruit Dealer understood this, and it was (again) refreshing to see. My fave moment was in the semis when bio-mech was breaking through the rocks on Scrap Station. FD swung some slings around to do a double-sided attack/contain, then dropped banes on the ambushed army. That's all from me. FD played excellently and I hope some of his creative solutions become standard. ^_^ I had a lot of fun watching him. I finally felt like I was seeing true zerg power. I also have to admit I felt bad for his terran opponents. I know how powerless you can feel in those situations (TvZ is actually my worst match-up D: ). Looking forward to seeing more of Fruit Dealer in the future. | ||
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Foomnz
New Zealand36 Posts
1: only make what you need to defend early harras... and produce as many drones as you can while teching as fast as you can...(Ovie drops and bling speed all count to victory..get them all...fast..drones are cheap 2: make diverse unit compositions....don't over commit to muta production etc...make just what you need to stop a harass..and continue to diversify...lings/roaches/infestors/mutas/bling/ultras | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
And I like when he himself said ZvT is easy and he is struggling with ZvP =d | ||
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yowza
Finland210 Posts
On October 03 2010 21:43 noD wrote: And I like when he himself said ZvT is easy and he is struggling with ZvP =d That depends largely on the player tho, TheStC wasn't there, which is pretty much the best terran in all of Korea. 9/30-10/1 Players/Matches of note: oGsTheStC(T) shows us why he is so good, playing 13 games and winning all of them, leaving him on a unbroken 13 win streak, and 2 of those games were against none other than FruitSeller(Z) the GSL S1 Finalist, those matches are labeled: oGsTheStC(T) vs ????????(Z) [MAP NAME]. From gisado's Koth event. For those that aren't familiar with it, its a king of the hill event which features all the best players in Korea and it's even been said that getting the grand prize in it (25 win streak) is harder than winning the gsl. Also; Record of successive wins - First : oGsTheStC(T) 22successive wins. :p | ||
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Dreamscythe
Finland273 Posts
Like rest of he's game :b | ||
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Nakas
United States148 Posts
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azarat
Australia155 Posts
I'm not trying to take away from FS' victory; I think he completely outplayed ITR in his four wins and about 80% of the time of his loss and thus well-deserved his win. But I don't think there's a huge amount of "new" info from his win, though you might argue that certain strategies that were less known by those who don't watch a ton of commentaries and replays will see a much greater propagation now because of the prominence of his win. He executed fundamentals of Zerg play exceptionally well and prepared extremely well for the ZvT matchup. On a side note, as a Zerg player I've always found ZvT to be an easier MU than ZvP. I'm by no means an awesome player or anything, and maybe it's just because I've played more ZvT than anything else, but when playing ZvT I feel that if I scout well and play well I have a decent shot. In ZvP I sometimes feel a bit helpless in the face of strong pushes and the fact that Protoss T3 is so very strong against your ground army. | ||
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