On September 30 2010 02:42 BurningSera wrote:
maybe someone should simulate the fight of Thors vs Ultras in Top v Cool Game2 to see Cool's ultras can win that amount of thors or not lol

You'd have to do exactly what Cool did - run like 40 lings, blings, and roaches up the rear of the thors to distract them first.

clitvin

Canada19 Posts

September 29 2010 18:14 GMT

#543

On September 30 2010 02:45 DTown wrote:

Show nested quote +

Thors definitely do not beat broodlords. They will however tear a few new orafices into your mutas that are trying to take out the vikings.

have you tried?

Numy

South Africa35471 Posts

September 29 2010 18:16 GMT

#544

On September 30 2010 02:48 cr4ckshot wrote:
Watching FruitDealer's latest series, I have to say that the Ultra "nerf" doesn't really change the overall balance of ZvT. Does it really matter that ultras do less splash considering they can just fodder shots so that banelings and lings can clean house?

This mindset of ultras being fodder is rather strange in SC2. In BW Ultras were the tanks but in SC2 lings are the weak attackers while ultras are the insane damage dealers. Against mech banelings aren't useful. Against MMM I believe the most common setup is muta/baneling/ling/infestor not really ultra/baneling but this could be the case. So no ultras are not cannon fodder anymore. If ultras can't do damage than they have no place in their current form.

Fadetowhite

Korea (South)302 Posts

September 29 2010 18:18 GMT

#545

back to using broodlords i guess

Grond

599 Posts

September 29 2010 18:26 GMT

#546

He only built Ultras in one game and he had wiped out the Terran army several times before he built them. Not really an indicator of the Ultra, and more an indicator that Cool is a monster, baller, crazy sicko, pshyco, awesome Zerg.

(stolen from Artosis, awesome job commentating)

teamsolid

Canada3668 Posts

September 29 2010 18:35 GMT

#547

Honestly, I'm fine with them nerfing the ultra splash, IF they just fixed Z early-mid game. Expo + tech rushing + trying to desperately survive every game to T3 is pretty dumb in general. If they make ultras weaker without fixing other aspects of the race, Z is now in an even WORSE spot than pre-1.1.

MegaVolt

28 Posts

September 29 2010 18:38 GMT

#548

The "bug" was a great feature that should never have been patched.
Funny enough this giant Z nerf (don't forget the 10% damage reduction Ultras got on top of that in 1.1) after Z was underpowered anyway will most probably go unfixed until 1.2

I'm getting more and more convinced that Blizzard really has no clue about what they are doing and that they are completely unable to fix any balance issues. After some Blizzard officials said they don't even like Zerg I'm afraid not even HotS will fix this issue.

I'm wondering: What can be done? Blizzard is obviously not listening to pro-gamers raising valid concerns about balance and they aren't listening to theorycrafting.
I guess the only hope would be to have one giant tournament with custom balance patched maps to make those popular. But then again with all the ties GomTV has now to Blizzard I doubt this will ever happen in the GSL (they are even using the crappy Blizzard maps after all ...) and other tournaments just aren't bug enough.

Is all hope lost?

Thenas

Sweden107 Posts

September 29 2010 18:40 GMT

#549

On September 28 2010 23:45 Nightcrawler wrote:
well iam tending to no race but seeing the ultra change i feel its some way in the right way because even in the past the splash was like the bulding thing but just against units wich i cant understand why hitting units behind a unit far away if u are a melee unit.
Maybe blizzard didnt realised the effect of the ultralisk because u need to really look at it to see it and just saw it obvious in the 1.1.0 patch and changed it to what it should be in there eyes.
So u could say u got an unfair advantage over other ppl and if blizzard takes it away u cry and make accusations against blizzard wich is really dishonoring

It might have been something to do with their blades being larger than a freaking supply depo....
also if it didn't have splashdamage it would need a much higher singletarget damage output comparable with that of DTs to be even slightly useful.
And the correct way to hotfix this is to put the old ability back in the game instead of making ultras severly worse against everything.

smegged

Australia213 Posts

September 30 2010 01:23 GMT

#550

Well it looks like (Z)

Fruit Dealer doesn't even need his ultras to be good to Win.

I however am not (Z)

Fruit Dealer and would Really Really like an ultra buff to compensate for the removal of this "bug".

SugarBear

United States842 Posts

September 30 2010 01:48 GMT

#551

I think zerg needs an almost across the board (with the exception of lings, blings, and drones) reduction in the price of their units. Right now zerg needs 2x+1 the number of bases to have a shot of beating a terran, and at least 2x the number of bases to keep up. That's completely unreasonable since terran already has an advantage early game and late game if they can secure 3 bases it's pretty much autolose for zerg.

GQz

Australia168 Posts

September 30 2010 01:57 GMT

#552

SIGH. I'm a zerg player, so suffice it to say, i'm not too happy about the nerf, considering how useless ultras were to begin with.

However, they were broken when you could hit planetary fortresses and the scv's repairing too. But imo that was pretty much the only issue. That scvs trying to repair would die to splash. The increased splash range was (i hope) intended, just not to that extent. By trying to fix it with the current patch (1.1.1), they've effectively reduced the splash? I think it can be said that to fix this, all we really need to do is increase the splash radius of the current ultralisk to match up with (to some extent) the previous splash (1.0), though that's just my opinion.

ClanRH.TV

United States462 Posts

September 30 2010 02:12 GMT

#553

I hate blue. Yes, this isn't constructive but every now and then I need to vent. I hate those scumbags.

User was temp banned for this post.

CidO

United States695 Posts

September 30 2010 02:44 GMT

#554

I'm upset at the principle, zerg has other issues going on and then this nerf just makes matters worse. The ultralisk should be the premier ground unit, only to be countered maybe by immortal. The problem comes along yes when cleave no longer cleave sand ram is more useful on occasion, but also mainly when they're dancing around 2 inches from the front lines and not attacking anything. That's what frustrates me more than anything. I'm not asking for cliff walking, or stepping over all zerg units, but with so many zerglings being a staple to a good zerg army/supplement, and the lack of open space to properly surround all the time they just get in the way.

P00RKID

United States424 Posts

September 30 2010 04:13 GMT

#555

Do you really want splash damage?

I mean, scbw ultras didn't have splash...

But anyway, this is just another example of Blizzard showing its true colors. They release a patch with a bug, quickly patch that bug with another nerf to the zerg. Didn't they used to say something like "Its not ready until it is ready." ? Either they don't know what they are doing and they are hurting balance more than fixing it with each patch, or they Know what they are doing, and just stealthed double nerfed zerg and can easily fall back on saying it was a bug fix, not a nerf.

We just have to deal with it and hope they fix this, that, and the other with a little more care and testing, so we don't end up with another "bug" that hurts the balance.

mierin

United States4943 Posts

September 30 2010 04:23 GMT

#556

Thank you Blizzard. When Terrans might be adversely affected by a gameplay feature, a hotfix is incoming ASAP.

knyttym

United States5797 Posts

September 30 2010 04:42 GMT

#557

Oh shit that sucks. Well I'm not sure how much this will affect my games but every nerf to zerg makes me sad. Only time I can see it being a problem is versus mass thors and maybe zvp.

Gescom

Canada3507 Posts

September 30 2010 04:44 GMT

#558

It will only make Cool's GSL victory even sweeter!

cHaNg-sTa

United States1058 Posts

September 30 2010 04:50 GMT

#559

Man, I was wondering why my Ultras were struggling against Thors today. This is really bad... this patch just greatly diminished Ultras' effectiveness.

Archmage

United States169 Posts

September 30 2010 05:15 GMT

#560

I love that in a patch to hot fix Phoenixes and Ultras, Blizzard breaks Phoenixes and Ultras. Also, why were they broken in the first place when they clearly had the patch ready for at least a month?