EPTIf this isn't patched in a few days I am done with zerg. In the past, we just had to survive til the ultras came out. Now we are surviving to watch our final last stand fail epicly. I'd rather not waste my time anymore.
Ultralisk bug/issue with patch 1.1.1 - Page 29
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
If this isn't patched in a few days I am done with zerg. In the past, we just had to survive til the ultras came out. Now we are surviving to watch our final last stand fail epicly. I'd rather not waste my time anymore. | ||
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Omoplata
United States42 Posts
I didn't see this posted here yet. To summarize, someone didn't believe Blizzard's response stating that Ultralisk splash range was unintentionally extended in patch 1.1, so they decided to test it. They did a fresh install of the game and tested Ultras v. Buildings (this part isn't really important, I think it just showed that the Ultra was using Ram in the unpatched version), then Ultra vs Thors with SCVs behind it, and compared it to patch 1.1.1. Unpatched results - Ultra attacks Thor, damages SCVs 3 rows deep (behind Thor). 1.1.1 results - Ultra attacks Thor, damages SCVs 1 row deep (behind Thor). Basically, it just shows that Blizzard is either mistaken, or flat out lying when it comes to their claim that 1.1.1 was fixing an unintentional range increase. Here's the youtube video: | ||
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Reasonable
Ukraine1432 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
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Grend
1600 Posts
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xs101
Romania86 Posts
The EU bnet forums thread about the Ultra splash bug in the technical support section is still being ignored by blue posters. Post your opinions here, and maybe they will give us at least an explanation (if it's a new bug or an intedned balance change). The more posts the more chances there are that they'll consider answering ! | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On September 30 2010 16:44 Grend wrote: What astonishes me is how fast they patched this. Was this really that much of a problem that it warranted a hotfix? I agree that this area of effect size is more believeable and consistent, but it is quite fascinating how they did not find it just to up the ultralisk damage to compensate for the obvious loss of damage output. Blizzard needs to focus on balancing early and mid game Terran versus Zerg before worrying about the late game in my opinion. the Ultralisk may very well be a bit overpowered but there are bigger balance issues than that in the matchup. exactly, the buggy aoe of ultras in 1.1 by all means is no game breaking, especially if you consider how hard to get them out in the first place. Buggy 1.1 is actually a move made zerg players feel that maybe blizzard cleverly do this for the underdog zerg while waiting for the real balance patch to kick in. but no, blizzard hated zerg so much that they patched it asap(less than 1 week time, considering they dont work on weekend). It really made me feel like they hate zerg so much. | ||
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GIGAR
Denmark88 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6149/photoproof.jpg) I think it should be clear that there is a change :/ | ||
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dvide
United Kingdom287 Posts
On September 30 2010 14:58 Omoplata wrote: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/791409599?page=1 I didn't see this posted here yet. To summarize, someone didn't believe Blizzard's response stating that Ultralisk splash range was unintentionally extended in patch 1.1, so they decided to test it. They did a fresh install of the game and tested Ultras v. Buildings (this part isn't really important, I think it just showed that the Ultra was using Ram in the unpatched version), then Ultra vs Thors with SCVs behind it, and compared it to patch 1.1.1. Unpatched results - Ultra attacks Thor, damages SCVs 3 rows deep (behind Thor). 1.1.1 results - Ultra attacks Thor, damages SCVs 1 row deep (behind Thor). Basically, it just shows that Blizzard is either mistaken, or flat out lying when it comes to their claim that 1.1.1 was fixing an unintentional range increase. Here's the youtube video: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPrSsfvbPaE It was still a bug, but it just wasn't introduced in patch 1.1 (except vs buildings indirectly). It was actually "introduced" in a beta patch, as they intended to change the splash mechanic to what it is like right now but they apparently didn't and nobody noticed. It was only noticed when 1.1 came out because they removed the ram attack, and so as some buildings like command centres are much larger than any unit the old bug was thus more visibly pronounced. I don't think Blizzard's blue posters understand this though, as they incorrectly stated that the bug was introduced in patch 1.1 as opposed to it having been in the game all along. EDIT: Actually this is slightly wrong. I took a look at the beta patch notes for myself and I found no mention of them changing the way ultra splash works to the current formula. I could have sworn I read somebody else say that. But either way it's not like they have playtested the new ultra. So any way you slice it, it amounts to a much larger nerf than Blizzard ever probably intended and they seem oblivious to that. | ||
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draKenphile
Germany2 Posts
I basically favor Broodlords way over ultras.... Thors basically cant do shit against massive air units and usually they only have like a cpl vikings which are easy to kill with Corruptors... and Corruptors u have anyways because u got broodlords.. | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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starcrafty
Australia6 Posts
Well done. I can't wait to see the top 200 list for the next few weeks. (I say 'few' because I have no hope of Blizzard fixing this anytime soon... not for the Zerg anyway) | ||
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bingobango
26 Posts
It was still a bug, but it just wasn't introduced in patch 1.1 (except vs buildings indirectly). It was actually "introduced" in a beta patch, as they intended to change the splash mechanic to what it is like right now but they apparently didn't and nobody noticed. I agree with you but people get hung up on this "bug" vs "nerf" stuff. That is a distinction without a difference. A "bugfix" that makes a unit demonstrably weaker is a nerf. They are not mutually exclusive. So while I don't necessarily mind nerfing ultralisks because they weren't working as intended, just simply nerfing ultralisks and ignoring the balance issues with zerg is just dumbfounding. | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On September 30 2010 22:54 starcrafty wrote: So after the second phase of beta, 2 months of release, Blizzard still hasn't properly addressed the problems with Zerg. Yet after only one week of Terran whining over a small late-game imbalance, they not only address it with top priority, but proceed to further nerf one of the few viable units Zerg has in an already unplayable late-game. Well done. I can't wait to see the top 200 list for the next few weeks. (I say 'few' because I have no hope of Blizzard fixing this anytime soon... not for the Zerg anyway) Don't act like it was just Terran. The insane range Ultralisks have effected all three match-ups as soon as the ultras came out it's not like it was ONLY against terran where the bug existed. Get off your high horse and use your brain. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On September 30 2010 03:16 Numy wrote: This mindset of ultras being fodder is rather strange in SC2. In BW Ultras were the tanks but in SC2 lings are the weak attackers while ultras are the insane damage dealers. Against mech banelings aren't useful. Against MMM I believe the most common setup is muta/baneling/ling/infestor not really ultra/baneling but this could be the case. So no ultras are not cannon fodder anymore. If ultras can't do damage than they have no place in their current form. i think thats simply because zerglings have actually less dps than in bw now (afaik), while there are new ranged units with insane dps like the marauder the idea of a melee tank doesnt work any more since ranged units do too much damage... thats also one of the biggest faults in sc2 design overall imho... melee units are way too useless, thats why it all degenerates into those big ranged balls if they wanted ultralisks to be the tanks they were in bw they would have to give them at least 1000hp, since armor doesnt help much vs big damage dealers like thors and marauders ever since the beta started those "terrible terrible damage" ranged units were the thing that broke sc2 game design the most, and this has been immediately obvious to most ppl, but not to blizzard, who refused to change any of those mechanics | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On September 30 2010 23:10 STS17 wrote: Don't act like it was just Terran. The insane range Ultralisks have effected all three match-ups as soon as the ultras came out it's not like it was ONLY against terran where the bug existed. Get off your high horse and use your brain. zvz ultras? what? zvp, change only affects buildings. you often form probe rings around a nexus that is attacked by an ultra? T was the only one that really "felt" it and couldnt just work around it since the mass repair was made impossible. i dont wanna defend his post or anything but yours is just uninformed . | ||
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GIGAR
Denmark88 Posts
On September 30 2010 23:10 STS17 wrote: Don't act like it was just Terran. The insane range Ultralisks have effected all three match-ups as soon as the ultras came out it's not like it was ONLY against terran where the bug existed. Get off your high horse and use your brain. If we only look at forum QQ (I realize this is not an accurate description of OPness, but whatever), there were MASSIVE amounts of Terran "PF IS UP!!!/nerf ultra" posts, and pretty much zero/very close to none P/Z players saying "OMG ULTRAS ARE OP!!!". Also, did we see any highlevel T players complain about this? Or P players? Or Z players? After what I've read, most people kinda agreed that it wasn't a huge issue, or gave Zerg an extremely overpowered advantage in lategame. I'm not 2k diamond, though, so feel free to ignore me p: | ||
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Ajunoo
Germany147 Posts
On September 30 2010 23:18 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:you often form probe rings around a nexus that is attacked by an ultra? made me smile  By the way, does someone have any numbers on the compared dps (head-butt vs normal now) ? in how far does the splash really affect buildings? I mean they tried to sell us the changed attack with "does actually do more damage against small buildings due to splash". Is this really accurate? I can only imagine that depots would have to be very close together to really provide much opportunity for splash damage. And I can't really think of any other Buildings that would be this close together really (I don't even believe that supply depots are 99% of the time) About Ultralisk vs Thor/Tank: Not only is the splash and damage lowered, Ultras are also melee. Thors and Tanks can just shoot from within the "ball", with range 7 on Thors right? And one Ultra already loses against a Thor. Overall sounds to me like if you can't get a good surround on Thors, you will need to have quite some more Ultras than the enemy has Thors. And to surround a ball of Thors with a bunch of Ultralisks you really need a very very big open space. | ||
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Bodhi
United States180 Posts
We did a little extra tracking on our end, and indeed, the Ultralisk bug existed at one point during the beta, so unfortunately, it's been around awhile and thus why many people thought it had been working as intended. As it stands now, this unit is working as intended. As always though, we are continuing to keep a close eye on how this affects gameplay on multiple levels and will continue to watch for constructive feedback from the community. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/791409599?page=5#96 | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
Ok, ultras don't beat a bunch of thors at cost. They really didn't before. Nothing does. Noting beats a bunch of Marauders at cost either, or Marines, or half of Terran units. Zerg still deals with this, and has dealt with it since roaches were neutered. Ultras take damage and they deal pretty good damage. That's it. They still do that, they just don't level a big mech ball as quickly. You still need other sources of DPS for that. If this is what Blizzard does with the ultralisk, fine, I'll still use it. At least they can kill a PF and repairing SCVs now. | ||
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