EPTUltralisk bug/issue with patch 1.1.1 - Page 31
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Psychlone
Canada90 Posts
If the ultra sucks too much, it will get its +5 dmg back. It used to be way more useless in Beta before the +dmg to Armored units. The splash around the target unit made no sense esthetically. I'm a Zerg player btw. | ||
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
Just watch that replay. 2/2 ultra/ling vs 1/1(not sure about the armor) helion/thor. 180 vs 130. Guess what wins? He did a semi all in in the beginning and I countered it, macrod up, took the gold and harassed a bit. he came for the final push and I was just waiting for the ultras so I paniced and lost some units, but I got him to turn around with my mutas(his fault). He then comes back and my ultras are up but he just chews threw them. This is actually the biggest nerf I have seen(i have only been playing this game since patch 13 or something). Please tell me what to do.... | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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Psychlone
Canada90 Posts
On October 01 2010 04:18 Brutus wrote: http://www.mediafire.com/?u5w3g5pg5z8kvuk Just watch that replay. 2/2 ultra/ling vs 1/1(not sure about the armor) helion/thor. 180 vs 130. Guess what wins? He did a semi all in in the beginning and I countered it, macrod up, took the gold and harassed a bit. he came for the final push and I was just waiting for the ultras so I paniced and lost some units, but I got him to turn around with my mutas(his fault). He then comes back and my ultras are up but he just chews threw them. This is actually the biggest nerf I have seen(i have only been playing this game since patch 13 or something). Please tell me what to do.... If you have mutas and Hive tech, you can have Brood Lords instead of Ultras, no? | ||
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naventus
United States1339 Posts
You use this time to confirm his composition and set up for his move out, which will be around 10-20 thors. When you engage (probably heavy roach comp), you need to parasite at least 8, if not more of the thors. 8 parasited thors (considering positioning + armor) will one shot a thor. If cannons is upgraded, you just quickly select all the NP thors and just cannon on the rest. If not, select them all and just burst down 1 thor at a time (probably get 4-5 before NP wears off). | ||
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
On October 01 2010 04:28 Psychlone wrote: If you have mutas and Hive tech, you can have Brood Lords instead of Ultras, no? Dude, you totally missed the point. Besides, Broodlords are grea till the opponent makes 5 vikings and then it becomes almost impossible to protect them due to their speed, and the viking insane range. It's just a stupid nerf, especially considering it was supposed to be a buff. It started with a buff to buildings, and now its just a big overall nerf. | ||
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Pinith
651 Posts
On October 01 2010 02:09 kcdc wrote: People understand that this was Blizzard's intention, right? Originally, splash extended at a range of 2 from the center of the target hit. In 1.1, splash was buffed to extend at a range of 2 from the outer surface of the target hit. In 1.1.1, splash was nerfed to extend (as intended) at a range of 2 from the front of the ultralisk, where the attack originates. This does nerf splash from the original version because the distance from the front of the ultralisk to the center of the target hit extended the splash radius beyond the intended radius of 2. Since the additional splash range was equal to the radius of the target hit, it was most visible with large targets like thors and siege tanks, but it was also present with smaller units like marines. It seems clear to me that this patch reverts the splash radius to the original design intents, but people seem upset because it is an effectively smaller splash radius than they were used to. I won't comment on what the optimal splash radius is, but I think it makes much more sense for the splash to originate from the front of the ultralisk than from the center of the target hit. The latter created an odd situation where splash radius depended on the size of the target. Now, the splash radius will be constant. The issue shouldn't be whether splash should be reverted to its previous state, but rather what the optimal radius is. If ultras are found to be too weak now, splash radius could be buffed slightly beyond 2. This totally makes sense, but it implies a total lack of communication within blizzard. Bug team: "Hey, ultralisks have a bug with splash that makes it too big" Dev team: "Ultralisks are doing too much damage, lets nerf it" Bug team: "Hey, when we fix this bug, ultralisks will do less damage" Dev team: "Still nerfing ultralisk damage" | ||
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Sairon
47 Posts
On October 01 2010 02:09 kcdc wrote: People understand that this was Blizzard's intention, right? Originally, splash extended at a range of 2 from the center of the target hit. In 1.1, splash was buffed to extend at a range of 2 from the outer surface of the target hit. In 1.1.1, splash was nerfed to extend (as intended) at a range of 2 from the front of the ultralisk, where the attack originates. This does nerf splash from the original version because the distance from the front of the ultralisk to the center of the target hit extended the splash radius beyond the intended radius of 2. Since the additional splash range was equal to the radius of the target hit, it was most visible with large targets like thors and siege tanks, but it was also present with smaller units like marines. It seems clear to me that this patch reverts the splash radius to the original design intents, but people seem upset because it is an effectively smaller splash radius than they were used to. I won't comment on what the optimal splash radius is, but I think it makes much more sense for the splash to originate from the front of the ultralisk than from the center of the target hit. The latter created an odd situation where splash radius depended on the size of the target. Now, the splash radius will be constant. The issue shouldn't be whether splash should be reverted to its previous state, but rather what the optimal radius is. If ultras are found to be too weak now, splash radius could be buffed slightly beyond 2. 1.1 didn't change it at all, it simply introduced the ordinary attack on buildings, at which point it became obvious. Ultras in beta did more splash, 50 dmg to everything ( iirc ), 100% splash dmg and about the same radius as now. The only difference compared to the beta ultra, which everyone thought was useless, is that the current incarnation can't be affected by slow effects. Personally I think the ultra is a boring T3 unit, especially as it is now. There's barely any micro involved at all, there's nothing really strategically interesting about it except that you need "bigger stuff" if the game gets to T3. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On October 01 2010 01:27 AssuredVacancy wrote: Wait, one of our core units for lategame has its damage output decreased by pretty much 50% and you say it's been blown out of proportion? 50% in absolute ideal situations. Think about the ultralisk. If you build 6 ultralisks as part of a larger army and send it all against an equal mech army and it's a close fight, how many total hits do you think the ultralisks get in before they die? 4? 6? Add up all the damage of those hits - is that worth 1800/1200/36? Almost definitely not. The damage is only a small part of the value of an ultralisk. The only exception to this is when you are fighting such a small mech army that your army completely steamrolls him. That's still going to happen just the same - it's still a mismatch in Zerg's favor. | ||
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
There's barely any micro involved at all, there's nothing really strategically interesting about it except that you need "bigger stuff" if the game gets to T3. I found Ultralisks quiet micro intensive due to their size, you have to micro them around a lot to give them correct targets. Btw. I had a ZvZ today, which was pretty nice. It ended with a MassHydra vs Ultra/Infestor(my part) My experience showed me that UltraInfestor is far superior over Hydra, well today I lost some fights, where u felt like u should have had enough to kill him. So I really felt the difference. Ultra in late ZvZ isnt that great anymore =/ even with the right support. Poor fattys. They NEED to change that back. i hope some1 can squeeze a statement out of Blizzard on Blizzcon | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On October 01 2010 06:59 Sairon wrote: 1.1 didn't change it at all, it simply introduced the ordinary attack on buildings, at which point it became obvious. Ultras in beta did more splash, 50 dmg to everything ( iirc ), 100% splash dmg and about the same radius as now. The only difference compared to the beta ultra, which everyone thought was useless, is that the current incarnation can't be affected by slow effects. Personally I think the ultra is a boring T3 unit, especially as it is now. There's barely any micro involved at all, there's nothing really strategically interesting about it except that you need "bigger stuff" if the game gets to T3. The original ultra was only 20 damage, splash was smaller (splash was what it is now), it didn't have speed, it had 50 more hp, and it was affected by slow/stun. Then they had the splash change.. they changed the damage to the 15+35 armored, nerfed the hp to 400, then gave them back 50 hp, immunity to slow/stun, and the speed upgrade for free. Then they took off 5 damage to armored and changed the splash back to original. It's much better than it was at the beginning of beta. | ||
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AzureD
United States320 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:08 fdsdfg wrote: The original ultra was only 20 damage, splash was smaller (splash was what it is now), it didn't have speed, it had 50 more hp, and it was affected by slow/stun. Then they had the splash change.. they changed the damage to the 15+35 armored, nerfed the hp to 400, then gave them back 50 hp, immunity to slow/stun, and the speed upgrade for free. Then they took off 5 damage to armored and changed the splash back to original. It's much better than it was at the beginning of beta. I am not so sure about that. They used to do 100% splash damage which was really good. But later it was changed to something like 33%. That was probably the single biggest nerf the Ultra ever got. | ||
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
I understand that there was a bug, and it should be fixed. But the splash on ultra has been live forever and they have been balanced around it. So to "fix" it to correct another smaller problem when zerg is considered a pretty weak race is insane. They should atleast have buffed the attack at the same time. Ultralisk is not even good in any way now. They get destroyed by bio AND thors. Whats the new counter to mass thor/hellion? | ||
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Aubergine
United States40 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:05 ch4ppi wrote: I found Ultralisks quiet micro intensive due to their size, you have to micro them around a lot to give them correct targets. Btw. I had a ZvZ today, which was pretty nice. It ended with a MassHydra vs Ultra/Infestor(my part) My experience showed me that UltraInfestor is far superior over Hydra, well today I lost some fights, where u felt like u should have had enough to kill him. So I really felt the difference. Ultra in late ZvZ isnt that great anymore =/ even with the right support. Poor fattys. They NEED to change that back. i hope some1 can squeeze a statement out of Blizzard on Blizzcon May as well just do baneling infestor. Baneling splash is more effective and they don't get stuck behind other banelings when they try to attack.... | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:24 AzureD wrote: I am not so sure about that. They used to do 100% splash damage which was really good. But later it was changed to something like 33%. That was probably the single biggest nerf the Ultra ever got. It definitely was - but the ultra was near useless at the beginning of beta due to the investment in upgrades (extra 150/150 for speed) and the lack of any real affect in battle. Marauders took them apart, and they didn't do much damage at all. Bringing the damage from 20 to 15+35 was really important. Nerfing the splash and HP at the same time sucked, and it was arguable if they were better before or not, but then when the speed was free and they couldn't be stunned and got 50 more hp, it was pretty clearly a buff. | ||
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Sairon
47 Posts
On October 01 2010 07:08 fdsdfg wrote: The original ultra was only 20 damage, splash was smaller (splash was what it is now), it didn't have speed, it had 50 more hp, and it was affected by slow/stun. Then they had the splash change.. they changed the damage to the 15+35 armored, nerfed the hp to 400, then gave them back 50 hp, immunity to slow/stun, and the speed upgrade for free. Then they took off 5 damage to armored and changed the splash back to original. It's much better than it was at the beginning of beta. My error there. I checked it out, it was 25 dmg straight up in beta with the 100% splash. Certainly a different unit now. I recall it being quite deadly to tier 1, totally obliterating marine / zealot balls  | ||
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frucisky
Singapore2170 Posts
We did a little extra tracking on our end, and indeed, the Ultralisk bug existed at one point during the beta, so unfortunately, it's been around awhile and thus why many people thought it had been working as intended. As it stands now, this unit is working as intended. As always though, we are continuing to keep a close eye on how this affects gameplay on multiple levels and will continue to watch for constructive feedback from the community. Basically, they had meant it to be this way since beta!! What's stupid is that they base balance changes with this bug in mind and now they remove the 'bug', completely neutering the ultra. Why couldn't they have either made it clearer in the patch notes rather than denying this for so long! More importantly, why couldn't they have recognised this bug earlier. | ||
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drag00n
United States24 Posts
theyre probably embarass about the phoenix bug fix that created another bug, same for ultras why cant they admit they made a mistake and hotfix it like when ultras had too good of splash... so quick to nerf, its really discouraging for a zerg player right now | ||
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