Can we expect balance changes soon? By seen I don't mean by the end of the year, that is kind of far away. It's disheartening that Zerg is having such a hard time right now and the only thing introduced to us in the last minor balance patch was a significant nerf to one of our extremely hard to get units. Sure we got the OP race nerf but that was a generous, gentle, touch.
Even some positive patch notes would hold me over for awhile but this is getting quite frustrating. All my hero's are switching races which means no more instructional replays for me.
I don't want to give a time period, but yes, more will be coming "soon".
There are a few variations of soon I've used for the sake of variety.
I know everyone keeps bringing up that this was a nerf. I also understand that this is an understandable perception to have given that the bug fixed altered the way the damage was being done by changing the epicenter of the splash damage. Unfortunately, utilizing the word "nerf" does not change the fact that it was a bug that was fixed (whether it should have been discovered before or not) that by extension lead to many of you feeling as if it was a straight forward nerf. As I said before though, this is one unit among many in the zerg arsenal and we'll be providing more information on future balance changes as soon as we can. We absolutely want to make sure that we're giving you the best possible information that we can. Just please keep in mind, patches take time to create, test, and release, but we'll keep pushing to do what we can and keep you as informed as possible.
Neth, when you say "we've spent a lot of disccusion time on just one unit," and "at some point we have to move on," who are you referring to? Are you referring to yourself and the forum community, or are you referring to the development/balance team?
If you're talking about the community, I'd completely understand, I doubt there's much more that needs to be said on the forums on this topic. I just really hope you're not referring to the development/balance team. It seems like no matter how many hours the development/balance team has spent working on the ultralisk, they really shouldn't stop working on it until they've specified what it's role is, and have balanced it for that role. I don't really think they should just leave it, "as is," if they're having a hard time figuring it out.
It was in reference to the current conversations within the community. We are currently working on some additional information to provide everyone to better explain what we are seeing as far as balance between the races as well as our next plans for ongoing balance tweaks. As I mentioned earlier though, and as much as people don't like it, we are being very careful not to make changes that tip the scales too far askew. We are still taking in feedback, listening, and looking at the ideas and perceptions that people have about the current balance state so that we can better address various concerns.
So it is summed up with... go f-yo, dont build Ultras and wait for ages to get a patch thats like: Neural Parasite now lasts 17 seconds, up from 15 Roaches now regnerate 6 instead of 5 HP while burrowd
I find it funny how people never try to find other ways to use the ultra other than conventional ideas like just building a ton and expecting to win the game.
Its just like with the infestor in some ways. For almost the entire time and as long as i can remember seeing in the beta, the infestor could spawn infested marines. Almost no one used it, not because it was a bad spell but apparently no one could think of a reason to. For a while they even got rid of the spell cause no one was using it and replaced it with a bland bloodlust clone. Since release i have been seeing tons of interesting ways to use it, from using the eggs to turn tank blasts onto ally ranks of marines to sneaky infiltrations into the mineral line in order to spawn a butload of I-Marines to decimate the workers and CC's.
Just cause Ultralisks are changed to be worse than before or even UP doesnt mean they are useless. Nor does it mean you should just stop using them altogether. If they are no longer usefull for the old style of play find a new one. Be inovative.
Dont get into the midset of Y counters X on this game as the primary dogma. Prime examples are zerglings, marines and hellions.
A lot of people say that marines and hellions counter zerglings. While its true that marines and hellions are great combatants against the speedy menace, In conflicts solely between the 2, you can see that its largely a toss up who actually wins out more in the engagement. In other words just having the unit does not automatically mean you will win if the foe uses something it *counters*. Ill explain the details of hellion and marine against ling interactions.
Lings can easily surround a hellion and devour it with only minimal losses if the hellions are not microed right and the same goes for the hellion if they can intellegently line up the lings tomaximse their AOE damage. Between zerglings and marines, on a low unit count, cost per cost fight 1 marine is easily killed by 2 zerglings. But zerglings seem to be less effective against equivalent costs of rines at times dont they? This ussualy happens due to changes in marine troop formation as they increase in number and against certain foes. Being in a ball rather than a thinner line thus reduces the attackable surface area while the marine range preserves the potential damage output until a certain diameter is acheived. These balls of marines also kite in order to help reduce the effectiveness of a zerg tactic, the surround, which can be deadly to marine balls. The surround if completed on a terran infantry ball immobalizes it however and can be a terrans downfall and the cost of using the ball formation since the reduced area exposed to enemy attacks also means a reduced amount of bodies needed to block your foe from escaping.
This just shows the begginning of the complexities between just a few of the low tier units and most importantly the falacy of thinking of the game only in terms of counters. Think of how hard it is to really balance a game when small changes CAN and often times do make major differences in the way the game is played. Think of all the other wierd anomalies that can play a part in games that most players overlook and dont ponder about. Rather than moping over patches that do weird things to prior gameplay or destroy old ways of doing things find out how to use what you have to makethe best of the situation.
Can we expect balance changes soon? By seen I don't mean by the end of the year, that is kind of far away. It's disheartening that Zerg is having such a hard time right now and the only thing introduced to us in the last minor balance patch was a significant nerf to one of our extremely hard to get units. Sure we got the OP race nerf but that was a generous, gentle, touch.
Even some positive patch notes would hold me over for awhile but this is getting quite frustrating. All my hero's are switching races which means no more instructional replays for me.
I don't want to give a time period, but yes, more will be coming "soon".
There are a few variations of soon I've used for the sake of variety.
I know everyone keeps bringing up that this was a nerf. I also understand that this is an understandable perception to have given that the bug fixed altered the way the damage was being done by changing the epicenter of the splash damage. Unfortunately, utilizing the word "nerf" does not change the fact that it was a bug that was fixed (whether it should have been discovered before or not) that by extension lead to many of you feeling as if it was a straight forward nerf. As I said before though, this is one unit among many in the zerg arsenal and we'll be providing more information on future balance changes as soon as we can. We absolutely want to make sure that we're giving you the best possible information that we can. Just please keep in mind, patches take time to create, test, and release, but we'll keep pushing to do what we can and keep you as informed as possible.
Neth, when you say "we've spent a lot of disccusion time on just one unit," and "at some point we have to move on," who are you referring to? Are you referring to yourself and the forum community, or are you referring to the development/balance team?
If you're talking about the community, I'd completely understand, I doubt there's much more that needs to be said on the forums on this topic. I just really hope you're not referring to the development/balance team. It seems like no matter how many hours the development/balance team has spent working on the ultralisk, they really shouldn't stop working on it until they've specified what it's role is, and have balanced it for that role. I don't really think they should just leave it, "as is," if they're having a hard time figuring it out.
It was in reference to the current conversations within the community. We are currently working on some additional information to provide everyone to better explain what we are seeing as far as balance between the races as well as our next plans for ongoing balance tweaks. As I mentioned earlier though, and as much as people don't like it, we are being very careful not to make changes that tip the scales too far askew. We are still taking in feedback, listening, and looking at the ideas and perceptions that people have about the current balance state so that we can better address various concerns.
A couple counterpoints that were made to the blue posts in that thread:
According to the situation report Ultras were supposed to do considerably more damage after removing the Ram attack, after the nerf this is no longer true.
If it was a "bug" then the Ultra was balanced around that bug. Since the bug was removed shouldn't the Ultra be rebalanced.
Just please keep in mind, patches take time to create, test, and release, but we'll keep pushing to do what we can and keep you as informed as possible.
ye ofc, they must be testing a lot, if players discover 15 mins after the patch is up that phx is totally broken, basically unusable and ultra got hit by the stealthed nerfhammer once again...
Just please keep in mind, patches take time to create, test, and release, but we'll keep pushing to do what we can and keep you as informed as possible.
ye ofc, they must be testing a lot, if players discover 15 mins after the patch is up that phx is totally broken, basically unusable and ultra got hit by the stealthed nerfhammer once again...
Yeah, that's one huge disappointment of mine. Basically that's what all the zerg players were happy about. "Now we can hurt SCVs while hitting a PF!".
But apparently Blizzard never tried that since it was totally bugged.
What i dont get is why zerg are even in the mentality of attacking a PF in the first place when the target should be the SCV's all along. Sure the ai makes an attack move target the closest aggressive thing as top priority rather than the squishy SCV, but the micro needed to specifically target the SCV is worth it since attacking a PF normally does not end well and should not end well and if you dont want to attack the SCV's themselves you shoudnt attack the PF at all.
On October 04 2010 07:35 GathFox wrote: What i dont get is why zerg are even in the mentality of attacking a PF in the first place when the target should be the SCV's all along. Sure the ai makes an attack move target the closest aggressive thing as top priority rather than the squishy SCV, but the micro needed to specifically target the SCV is worth it since attacking a PF normally does not end well and should not end well and if you dont want to attack the SCV's themselves you shoudnt attack the PF at all.
ye right, only terran should be previlged to right click a hatch/nex and kill it with t1 units faster than others with t3 units. i understand your point...
On October 04 2010 07:35 GathFox wrote: What i dont get is why zerg are even in the mentality of attacking a PF in the first place when the target should be the SCV's all along. Sure the ai makes an attack move target the closest aggressive thing as top priority rather than the squishy SCV, but the micro needed to specifically target the SCV is worth it since attacking a PF normally does not end well and should not end well and if you dont want to attack the SCV's themselves you shoudnt attack the PF at all.
ye right, only terran should be previlged to right click a hatch/nex and kill it with t1 units faster than others with t3 units. i understand your point...
ya right like terrans and protoss should be forced to snipe the CC hard to kill equivalent because if one tries to target all the drones at later game a zerg can just macro about 35 more off of 5 bases in a very short amount of time, the same amount of time compared to a terran with five bases being able to make at most 5 for the same amount of time or toss being able to chrono boost a slight bit mroe out than terran.
If anything this shows how privileged zerg is that a hit to their drones isnt nearly as devastating as what that to a terran or toss can be. The only time killing drones really is significant is early game when your resources and larvae are more stressed. also your hatcheries are cheaper than a command center and at the same time increase the production capacity of every unit for your army(cept morphs directly lol) that you have teched to.
So try to see this from a rational standpoint for a moment. Killing drones with harrass gives you little advantage in resources or time. killing an expansion while being more risky than picking off drones has a lot more reward mainly in time since those are cheap as heck to throwdown in comparison to 2 rax and a CC. Its a fricken wonder building for the zerg so of course we have to resort to killing it to do anything significant to a zergs economy.
Also you dont seem to see how foolish the idea of trying to take down a terran CC is in most cases. If you go for that rather than SCV's in late game, we can just float in an older one at a just mined out base to replace it as well as simply fly it off. SCV's take a longer time to rebuild for a terran than a zerg so if we lose a lot we cant just explode much more than five per worker build time. So what the heck would possess you to even want to attack the CC in the first place? Just cause its there? So if you see a bunch of photon cannons powered by only one pylon do you attack the cannons and complain taht you lose units or do you attack the pylon powering them all, thus rendering them null in a much faster amount of time? The mentality that you should be rewarded for making foolish tactical decisions is apalling.
Also last time i checked zerglings can eat up buildings *and workers* pretty dam fast so your tier one arguement is invalid especialy since marines and marauders dont have the speed to just run into a relatively ungaurded natural kill as they will and then speed out before anything too brutal comes along. Heck, losing zerglings late game seems to mean little to you in terms of resources, only larvae. a drop of *TIER 1 UNITS* is awfully costly if you must use 2 dropships, which clearly are not TIER 1 and if they are not using a dropship, heck why didnt you see the hatchery snipe coming due to overlords and creep tumors? Not only that but zerglings are largely the reason for the wallin itself, not jsut cause it protects your units but cause if it was not there zerglings could just do a *run-by*. The only problem agaisnt terrans is that their SCV's if given room to access something big like a CC can repair it well. But as i said before, why are you even attacking the CC?
You dont even want to get me started about PF's but ill give you a quick summary. They are built from a command center, obviously meant to serve a command centers purpose somehow. Ah i got it! They are supposed to protect it. That means they are supposed to provide a greater deterance form marauding zerg while serving the role of a command center that has no lift off ability but the same durability. Ill let you figure out the rest if you can.
On October 04 2010 07:35 GathFox wrote: What i dont get is why zerg are even in the mentality of attacking a PF in the first place when the target should be the SCV's all along. Sure the ai makes an attack move target the closest aggressive thing as top priority rather than the squishy SCV, but the micro needed to specifically target the SCV is worth it since attacking a PF normally does not end well and should not end well and if you dont want to attack the SCV's themselves you shoudnt attack the PF at all.
ye right, only terran should be previlged to right click a hatch/nex and kill it with t1 units faster than others with t3 units. i understand your point...
ya right like terrans and protoss should be forced to snipe the CC hard to kill equivalent because if one tries to target all the drones at later game a zerg can just macro about 35 more off of 5 bases in a very short amount of time, the same amount of time compared to a terran with five bases being able to make at most 5 for the same amount of time or toss being able to chrono boost a slight bit mroe out than terran.
If anything this shows how privileged zerg is that a hit to their drones isnt nearly as devastating as what that to a terran or toss can be. The only time killing drones really is significant is early game when your resources and larvae are more stressed. also your hatcheries are cheaper than a command center and at the same time increase the production capacity of every unit for your army(cept morphs directly lol) that you have teched to.
So try to see this from a rational standpoint for a moment. Killing drones with harrass gives you little advantage in resources or time. killing an expansion while being more risky than picking off drones has a lot more reward mainly in time since those are cheap as heck to throwdown in comparison to 2 rax and a CC. Its a fricken wonder building for the zerg so of course we have to resort to killing it to do anything significant to a zergs economy.
Also you dont seem to see how foolish the idea of trying to take down a terran CC is in most cases. If you go for that rather than SCV's in late game, we can just float in an older one at a just mined out base to replace it as well as simply fly it off. SCV's take a longer time to rebuild for a terran than a zerg so if we lose a lot we cant just explode much more than five per worker build time. So what the heck would possess you to even want to attack the CC in the first place? Just cause its there? So if you see a bunch of photon cannons powered by only one pylon do you attack the cannons and complain taht you lose units or do you attack the pylon powering them all, thus rendering them null in a much faster amount of time? The mentality that you should be rewarded for making foolish tactical decisions is apalling.
Also last time i checked zerglings can eat up buildings *and workers* pretty dam fast so your tier one arguement is invalid especialy since marines and marauders dont have the speed to just run into a relatively ungaurded natural kill as they will and then speed out before anything too brutal comes along. Heck, losing zerglings late game seems to mean little to you in terms of resources, only larvae. a drop of *TIER 1 UNITS* is awfully costly if you must use 2 dropships, which clearly are not TIER 1 and if they are not using a dropship, heck why didnt you see the hatchery snipe coming due to overlords and creep tumors? Not only that but zerglings are largely the reason for the wallin itself, not jsut cause it protects your units but cause if it was not there zerglings could just do a *run-by*. The only problem agaisnt terrans is that their SCV's if given room to access something big like a CC can repair it well. But as i said before, why are you even attacking the CC?
You dont even want to get me started about PF's but ill give you a quick summary. They are built from a command center, obviously meant to serve a command centers purpose somehow. Ah i got it! They are supposed to protect it. That means they are supposed to provide a greater deterance form marauding zerg while serving the role of a command center that has no lift off ability but the same durability. Ill let you figure out the rest if you can.
there's so much completely wrong and idiotic in this post, I won't even begin to bother replying to every one of your copper league anecdotes.
It's very hard not to rage after reading that much bullshit mixed with that much arrogance, lol.
Killing drones is not worth it lategame. Hatch is cheaper than CC or Nexus. comparing lings to marauders when attacking buildings.
On October 04 2010 07:35 GathFox wrote: What i dont get is why zerg are even in the mentality of attacking a PF in the first place when the target should be the SCV's all along. Sure the ai makes an attack move target the closest aggressive thing as top priority rather than the squishy SCV, but the micro needed to specifically target the SCV is worth it since attacking a PF normally does not end well and should not end well and if you dont want to attack the SCV's themselves you shoudnt attack the PF at all.
ye right, only terran should be previlged to right click a hatch/nex and kill it with t1 units faster than others with t3 units. i understand your point...
ya right like terrans and protoss should be forced to snipe the CC hard to kill equivalent because if one tries to target all the drones at later game a zerg can just macro about 35 more off of 5 bases in a very short amount of time, the same amount of time compared to a terran with five bases being able to make at most 5 for the same amount of time or toss being able to chrono boost a slight bit mroe out than terran.
If anything this shows how privileged zerg is that a hit to their drones isnt nearly as devastating as what that to a terran or toss can be. The only time killing drones really is significant is early game when your resources and larvae are more stressed. also your hatcheries are cheaper than a command center and at the same time increase the production capacity of every unit for your army(cept morphs directly lol) that you have teched to.
So try to see this from a rational standpoint for a moment. Killing drones with harrass gives you little advantage in resources or time. killing an expansion while being more risky than picking off drones has a lot more reward mainly in time since those are cheap as heck to throwdown in comparison to 2 rax and a CC. Its a fricken wonder building for the zerg so of course we have to resort to killing it to do anything significant to a zergs economy.
Also you dont seem to see how foolish the idea of trying to take down a terran CC is in most cases. If you go for that rather than SCV's in late game, we can just float in an older one at a just mined out base to replace it as well as simply fly it off. SCV's take a longer time to rebuild for a terran than a zerg so if we lose a lot we cant just explode much more than five per worker build time. So what the heck would possess you to even want to attack the CC in the first place? Just cause its there? So if you see a bunch of photon cannons powered by only one pylon do you attack the cannons and complain taht you lose units or do you attack the pylon powering them all, thus rendering them null in a much faster amount of time? The mentality that you should be rewarded for making foolish tactical decisions is apalling.
Also last time i checked zerglings can eat up buildings *and workers* pretty dam fast so your tier one arguement is invalid especialy since marines and marauders dont have the speed to just run into a relatively ungaurded natural kill as they will and then speed out before anything too brutal comes along. Heck, losing zerglings late game seems to mean little to you in terms of resources, only larvae. a drop of *TIER 1 UNITS* is awfully costly if you must use 2 dropships, which clearly are not TIER 1 and if they are not using a dropship, heck why didnt you see the hatchery snipe coming due to overlords and creep tumors? Not only that but zerglings are largely the reason for the wallin itself, not jsut cause it protects your units but cause if it was not there zerglings could just do a *run-by*. The only problem agaisnt terrans is that their SCV's if given room to access something big like a CC can repair it well. But as i said before, why are you even attacking the CC?
You dont even want to get me started about PF's but ill give you a quick summary. They are built from a command center, obviously meant to serve a command centers purpose somehow. Ah i got it! They are supposed to protect it. That means they are supposed to provide a greater deterance form marauding zerg while serving the role of a command center that has no lift off ability but the same durability. Ill let you figure out the rest if you can.
there's so much completely wrong and idiotic in this post, I won't even begin to bother replying to every one of your copper league anecdotes.
It's very hard not to rage after reading that much bullshit mixed with that much arrogance, lol.
Killing drones is not worth it lategame. Hatch is cheaper than CC or Nexus. comparing lings to marauders when attacking buildings.
give me a break.
i was about to comment on his post also with some epic words of hate.
but i thought to my self. do i want to get banned again.
it still amazing people can have such scewed views on the game.
On October 04 2010 07:35 GathFox wrote: What i dont get is why zerg are even in the mentality of attacking a PF in the first place when the target should be the SCV's all along. Sure the ai makes an attack move target the closest aggressive thing as top priority rather than the squishy SCV, but the micro needed to specifically target the SCV is worth it since attacking a PF normally does not end well and should not end well and if you dont want to attack the SCV's themselves you shoudnt attack the PF at all.
ye right, only terran should be previlged to right click a hatch/nex and kill it with t1 units faster than others with t3 units. i understand your point...
ya right like terrans and protoss should be forced to snipe the CC hard to kill equivalent because if one tries to target all the drones at later game a zerg can just macro about 35 more off of 5 bases in a very short amount of time, the same amount of time compared to a terran with five bases being able to make at most 5 for the same amount of time or toss being able to chrono boost a slight bit mroe out than terran.
If anything this shows how privileged zerg is that a hit to their drones isnt nearly as devastating as what that to a terran or toss can be. The only time killing drones really is significant is early game when your resources and larvae are more stressed. also your hatcheries are cheaper than a command center and at the same time increase the production capacity of every unit for your army(cept morphs directly lol) that you have teched to.
So try to see this from a rational standpoint for a moment. Killing drones with harrass gives you little advantage in resources or time. killing an expansion while being more risky than picking off drones has a lot more reward mainly in time since those are cheap as heck to throwdown in comparison to 2 rax and a CC. Its a fricken wonder building for the zerg so of course we have to resort to killing it to do anything significant to a zergs economy.
Also you dont seem to see how foolish the idea of trying to take down a terran CC is in most cases. If you go for that rather than SCV's in late game, we can just float in an older one at a just mined out base to replace it as well as simply fly it off. SCV's take a longer time to rebuild for a terran than a zerg so if we lose a lot we cant just explode much more than five per worker build time. So what the heck would possess you to even want to attack the CC in the first place? Just cause its there? So if you see a bunch of photon cannons powered by only one pylon do you attack the cannons and complain taht you lose units or do you attack the pylon powering them all, thus rendering them null in a much faster amount of time? The mentality that you should be rewarded for making foolish tactical decisions is apalling.
Also last time i checked zerglings can eat up buildings *and workers* pretty dam fast so your tier one arguement is invalid especialy since marines and marauders dont have the speed to just run into a relatively ungaurded natural kill as they will and then speed out before anything too brutal comes along. Heck, losing zerglings late game seems to mean little to you in terms of resources, only larvae. a drop of *TIER 1 UNITS* is awfully costly if you must use 2 dropships, which clearly are not TIER 1 and if they are not using a dropship, heck why didnt you see the hatchery snipe coming due to overlords and creep tumors? Not only that but zerglings are largely the reason for the wallin itself, not jsut cause it protects your units but cause if it was not there zerglings could just do a *run-by*. The only problem agaisnt terrans is that their SCV's if given room to access something big like a CC can repair it well. But as i said before, why are you even attacking the CC?
You dont even want to get me started about PF's but ill give you a quick summary. They are built from a command center, obviously meant to serve a command centers purpose somehow. Ah i got it! They are supposed to protect it. That means they are supposed to provide a greater deterance form marauding zerg while serving the role of a command center that has no lift off ability but the same durability. Ill let you figure out the rest if you can.
wow. How bad are you? Tip for you: don't give advice when you're bronze
you can't possibly tell zerg/protoss to "just kill the SCVs." Killing a Terran's SCVs is borderline meaningless thanks to MULEs.
That said I think Cool demonstrated that Ultras are far from useless or neutered, plus he brought a couple Infestors for keeping SCVs from repairing PFs. Seems reasonable to me as you should be building Infestors in almost any game vs. T
On October 04 2010 11:01 theqat wrote: you can't possibly tell zerg/protoss to "just kill the SCVs." Killing a Terran's SCVs is borderline meaningless thanks to MULEs.
I am inclined to agree with you but instead of calling killing SCVs meaningless I would say that it is as meaningless (or meaningful) as killing drones.
Gathfox: On the subject of killing larvae the re-saturation of a mineral line not only costs a ton of minerals it also costs a production cycle or two which means that zerg will be able to make less units. Each egg could be an ultralisk but it has to be a drone.
Comparing the production cycles of each race is a fruitless task because of the differences between them. That is not the issue at hand. The thread is discussing the changes to the ultralisk, a unit which is an anti-ground anti-armor unit which has now lost the ability to be cost effective against a unit that is both armored and ground, the thor.
Ya and your words of wisdom are so enlightening. Just shows you dont have a good answere. Obviously you havnt thought this through very hard to be so intellectually owned by me. Really, Id expect if you had any deep grasp to the game mechanics you could support your arguement.
You forget most of all... a hatchery is cheaper than a CC AND barracks, it fills the role of resource gathering point, worker producer and military producer all in one. (i wont even go through the fact that it boost production of EVERY unit in your repetoir since you do have to invest a bit mroe in individual technologies and that counters some of the advantage that zerg have due to the lack in production capacity is countered in some ways by terran tech versatility) really id expect if you had any grasp to the game mechanics you could support your arguement.
The simple and hillarious fact is about the predicament with PF's is, if your not gonna succeed in killing it why have you been trying to attack it at all? Its so easily avoidable if you just need to get past it if you are not interested in harming your foes economy (its not gonna chase ya). It COULD be used as a Giant road block though lol so that is the only time you really need to fight it directly and may not have an actual choice. But common zerg rarely mention that scenario so clearly it must not be the case.
Next time have the balls to come up with a logical arguement.
On October 04 2010 11:09 Moa wrote: The thread is discussing the changes to the ultralisk, a unit which is an anti-ground anti-armor unit which has now lost the ability to be cost effective against a unit that is both armored and ground, the thor.
I find it most annoying that when the opposing units are armored and also anti-armored, the Ultras get raped. That shows the ineffectiveness of the Ultra to me. Marauders and Immortals are armored and anti-armored and they make Ultras wish they were still in the larva stage. Of course Immortals aren't that good against, uh, lings I guess, and Marauders don't have counters as we all know. But Ultras have great counters, including units they're supposed to be good against (Marauders/Immortals/Thors/Blink Stalkers) and units like Marines, Zealots, Archons, and of course flying units.
Why does it have to be this way? Why do zerg units always have half the unit pool as counters, while units like Marauders, Thors, Tanks, Stalkers, Colossi, Immortals all can be massed and have at most one (ground) unit that are good against them, and have to be dealt with using spells and good micro? Zerg units can be countered just building a different attacking unit and you're ok.
The simple and hillarious fact is about the predicament with PF's is, if your not gonna succeed in killing it why have you been trying to attack it at all? Its so easily avoidable if you just need to get past it if you are not interested in harming your foes economy (its not gonna chase ya). It COULD be used as a Giant road block though lol so that is the only time you really need to fight it directly and may not have an actual choice. But common zerg rarely mention that scenario so clearly it must not be the case.
You're a troll, right?
If not, let me tell you that PF's are usually built next to those blue shiny things we call minerals, and leaving the PF alone (since it can't chase you!) lets the Terran expand freely and mine his heart out.
EPT
