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On October 05 2010 01:48 urashimakt wrote:
The Ultralisk attack didn't change from 1.0 to 1.1 apart from Headbutt being removed, Kaiser Blades being allowed to attack buildings, and +5 armor damage being taken off. The splash radius was not increased or decreased. The AoE was decreased universally, but to a varying degree based on target, from 1.1 to 1.1.1. This means that 1.0 to 1.1.1 universally weakened the ultralisk attack.
I'm very aware of what you're saying. Maybe I did not explain myself good enough.
What I'm saying (and Blizzards too) is that the aoe range (based on the unit attacked) from 1.0 was a bug according to blue post.. It was not supposed to work like that.
So 1.1.1 changed that, to give the ultra the proper aoe mechanic, range, splash or whatever you want to call it.
In other words, ultra 1.0 was OP because of broken aoe, 1.1.1 he's working as intended. On a side note it's still a unit that roflstomps any terran ground (except if you throw them 1 by 1 in a choke point, that is).
So yea it was actually nerfed -5 v armored. One nerf(damage v armored) and one fix(aoe mechanic). Not two nerfs.
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On October 05 2010 02:30 Burban wrote:
In other words, ultra 1.0 was OP because of broken aoe, 1.1.1 he's working as intended. On a side note it's still a unit that roflstomps any terran ground (except if you throw them 1 by 1 in a choke point, that is).
So yea it was actually nerfed -5 v armored. One nerf(damage v armored) and one fix(aoe mechanic). Not two nerfs.
Have you ever seen someone post that Ultralisks are OP between 1.0 and 1.1? I sure haven't - now to your even worse 2. point: Ultras still roflstomp every terran ground unit? Are you kidding me?
6 Thors vs 6 Ultras - 2-3 Thors(!!!) survive
Marauders vs Ultras - well we don't even need to speak about that one, so ridiculous
Tanks vs Ultras - once critical tank mass is reached Ultras die instantly
Marines vs Ultras - lol... let me just tell you: Ultras don't work vs Marines either
so: which unit exactly do Ultras "roflstomp"?!
EDIT: I am sure Ultras still counter SCVs just fine - I'll give you that one
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On October 05 2010 02:46 Chroniel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 02:30 Burban wrote:
In other words, ultra 1.0 was OP because of broken aoe, 1.1.1 he's working as intended. On a side note it's still a unit that roflstomps any terran ground (except if you throw them 1 by 1 in a choke point, that is).
So yea it was actually nerfed -5 v armored. One nerf(damage v armored) and one fix(aoe mechanic). Not two nerfs. Have you ever seen someone post that Ultralisks are OP between 1.0 and 1.1? I sure haven't - now to your even worse 2. point: Ultras still roflstomp every terran ground unit? Are you kidding me? 6 Thors vs 6 Ultras - 2-3 Thors(!!!) survive Marauders vs Ultras - well we don't even need to speak about that one, so ridiculous Tanks vs Ultras - once critical tank mass is reached Ultras die instantly Marines vs Ultras - lol... let me just tell you: Ultras don't work vs Marines either so: which unit exactly do Ultras "roflstomp"?! EDIT: I am sure Ultras still counter SCVs just fine - I'll give you that one
Hellions and stalkers and roaches ._.
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On October 05 2010 02:48 Fa1nT wrote:
Hellions and stalkers and roaches ._.
He was talking about Terran units though... Yes without micro hellions die - but I'm sure you could kill an Ultra with a microed hellion just fine (even though it's probably not worth the effort considering the time required until it dies). And stalker balls are now MUCH stronger vs. Ultras.
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On October 05 2010 02:50 Chroniel wrote:He was talking about Terran units though... Yes without micro hellions die - but I'm sure you could kill an Ultra with a microed hellion just fine (even though it's probably not worth the effort considering the time required until it dies). And stalker balls are now MUCH stronger vs. Ultras.
Roaches with minimal micro also beat Ultras pretty easily - you just need to space out a little bit to make sure he doesn't get 100% splash all the time. It's one-way micro too, there's nothing the Ultra can do to overcome that. Ultras certainly cannot beat roaches at gas cost.
Hellions I'll give you, but theoretically they will win if micro'd, so it has to be unmicro'd hellions.
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So the direction of argument in this thread is leaning towards the 'ultras too weak' side. Still, why would they get their epic splash back? It was unintentional and didn't make any sense. The tusks shouldn't hit a larger area because they are attacking a Thor instead of a marine.
If the Ultras are too weak, they need another buff, but not a non-nonsensical dynamic splash area. More damage, more splash damage, or larger splash AoE would all make more sense.
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I don't understand the huge issue with this. Its not like Ultralisks had splash damage in Starcraft 1.
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I don't understand the huge issue with this. Its not like Ultralisks had splash damage in Starcraft 1.
Its not like there has been Marauders/Planetary Fortresses/ Thors.... should I really keep goin on?
what a stupid argument =)
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On October 05 2010 12:05 ch4ppi wrote:Show nested quote +I don't understand the huge issue with this. Its not like Ultralisks had splash damage in Starcraft 1. Its not like there has been Marauders/Planetary Fortresses/ Thors.... should I really keep goin on? what a stupid argument =)
marauders and thors are designed to counter ultras though...
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On October 05 2010 11:06 rS.Sinatra wrote:
I don't understand the huge issue with this. Its not like Ultralisks had splash damage in Starcraft 1.
There is also no dark swarm, and ling adrenal dps is complete shit compared to SCBW. So, your point is?
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marauders and thors are designed to counter ultras though...
Plz stop making an even bigger fool out of yourself 0.o
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On October 05 2010 12:26 ch4ppi wrote:Plz stop making an even bigger fool out of yourself 0.o
no your the fool.
cant you see that armoured units are mainly surposed to counter anti-armoured units!!!!! its starcraft 101
/sarcasim
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On October 05 2010 12:11 rS.Sinatra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 12:05 ch4ppi wrote:I don't understand the huge issue with this. Its not like Ultralisks had splash damage in Starcraft 1. Its not like there has been Marauders/Planetary Fortresses/ Thors.... should I really keep goin on? what a stupid argument =) marauders and thors are designed to counter ultras though...
How are Thors designed to counter ultras? They don't do bonus damage versus them, and they have bonus damage done unto them. Ultras are supposed to be a counter to Thors. At least that's my understanding.
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On October 05 2010 12:33 Triscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 12:11 rS.Sinatra wrote:On October 05 2010 12:05 ch4ppi wrote:I don't understand the huge issue with this. Its not like Ultralisks had splash damage in Starcraft 1. Its not like there has been Marauders/Planetary Fortresses/ Thors.... should I really keep goin on? what a stupid argument =) marauders and thors are designed to counter ultras though... How are Thors designed to counter ultras? They don't do bonus damage versus them, and they have bonus damage done unto them. Ultras are supposed to be a counter to Thors. At least that's my understanding.
Well, to be fair, every Terran unit is designed to counter ultlras and all other zerg units. Just the way Blizz likes it.
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On October 05 2010 12:33 Triscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 12:11 rS.Sinatra wrote:On October 05 2010 12:05 ch4ppi wrote:I don't understand the huge issue with this. Its not like Ultralisks had splash damage in Starcraft 1. Its not like there has been Marauders/Planetary Fortresses/ Thors.... should I really keep goin on? what a stupid argument =) marauders and thors are designed to counter ultras though... How are Thors designed to counter ultras? They don't do bonus damage versus them, and they have bonus damage done unto them. Ultras are supposed to be a counter to Thors. At least that's my understanding.
they have a spell that does massive amounts of damage to a target unit... i mean.. it doesnt get more simple than that...
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On October 05 2010 12:55 rS.Sinatra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 12:33 Triscuit wrote:On October 05 2010 12:11 rS.Sinatra wrote:On October 05 2010 12:05 ch4ppi wrote:I don't understand the huge issue with this. Its not like Ultralisks had splash damage in Starcraft 1. Its not like there has been Marauders/Planetary Fortresses/ Thors.... should I really keep goin on? what a stupid argument =) marauders and thors are designed to counter ultras though... How are Thors designed to counter ultras? They don't do bonus damage versus them, and they have bonus damage done unto them. Ultras are supposed to be a counter to Thors. At least that's my understanding. they have a spell that does massive amounts of damage to a target unit... i mean.. it doesnt get more simple than that...
But Ultras have that bonus damage vs armored and Thors are indeed armored. Well, no problem, I guess ultras instead are the counter to... uh... to...
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And? The way the splash worked before was silly. It should've ALWAYS been this way.
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On October 05 2010 13:25 oxxo wrote:
And? The way the splash worked before was silly. It should've ALWAYS been this way.
The way that splash worked before was perfectly fine on UNITS. When Bliz used the splash dmg attack for buildings as well, that's where it all went wrong... and now Ultralisks are a complete waste of money (at least compared to how they were before).
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Seems like every Zerg player is fighting a losing argument and not realizing it both here and on the Bnet forums - the fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter if we know that the Ultralisk has been greatly nerfed from its patch 1.0 days. Blizzard is going to stick to its "working as intended" tagline, and every Terran player is going to parrot it.
At this point all we can do is hope for buffs in other areas in the next balance patch (due some time next year) and just move on.
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On October 05 2010 14:46 archon256 wrote:
Seems like every Zerg player is fighting a losing argument and not realizing it both here and on the Bnet forums - the fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter if we know that the Ultralisk has been greatly nerfed from its patch 1.0 days. Blizzard is going to stick to its "working as intended" tagline, and every Terran player is going to parrot it.
At this point all we can do is hope for buffs in other areas in the next balance patch (due some time next year) and just move on.
You sir, get a star! =D
We zerg players are going to have to wait and just play with even more perfection until then.
I would like to change the direction a little:
What have zerg players been doing now that ultralisks aren't really worth getting in the late game anymore? From experience, going for ultralisks the moment I hit tier 3 has felt like a mistake ever since the new patch. The ultras come out and they can't even hold their own weight to defend against an enemy push. It's like sending zerglings single-filed into pre-igniter helions.
More specifically, I'm having a difficult time transitioning out of muta/baneling vs terran. It gets to the same point every game: banelings to counter the marines and mutas to black box the thors. Now that I survived the mid-game, I have nothing to transition into during the late game. I've gotten brood lords a bunch of times, but if the brood lord push doesn't win you the game it feels like an uphill struggle thereafter.
Prior to 1.1.1, I was in diamond @1670, I'm currently sitting around 1550. Lost a lot of points learning new ways to play against terran/protoss without the ultralisk in the late game. Also, I think it's preferable to get opinions from people around my rating please?
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EPT
