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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On September 24 2010 15:55 lambnrice wrote: The general consensus is that zerg has the edge in the late game. No, that's the general consensus among Terran players. The reason for that is because on the ladder they have less APM than their Zerg point score equivalents. So when it gets to late-game they can't keep up with multi-tasking. Watch a very good Terran player like BratOK and DeMuslim; they have monstrous TvZ lategames. | ||
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MasterAsia
United States170 Posts
On September 24 2010 14:56 lambnrice wrote: There is no worse feeling that funneling your hydras into a constant stream of seige tank fire. They're way too slow and fragile to even consider against tanks. That nerf does not effect hydras in any major way. I did a test. The nerf is huge against hydra. I tried 30 food sieged tanks vs 60 food hydras with range upgrade. Before patch, T loses 1 tank. After patch, T loses 3 tanks. Very huge difference though. But why would I trade 60 food hydras for 3 tanks.... | ||
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Xacalite
Germany533 Posts
In the article he stated that he was unsatisfied with the impact of the changes in 1.1 and he would like to see either more fast and small patches, or more changes within each patch. I personally think blizzard should take it slow, dont make the WoW mistakes. But then I realised that I overlooked something very important: If blizzard really knows how flawed Zerg is atm, then why did they initialise the GSL? You could argument, that the GSL is kind of an balance test (that would be kind of an expensive balance test). But then why do they want an GSL EVERY month? Comeptitive eSport over hundreds of thousands of dollars with a game that is apparently not balanced out just doesnt make much sense to me. | ||
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1Lamb1Rice
United States435 Posts
On September 24 2010 16:09 MasterAsia wrote: I did a test. The nerf is huge against hydra. I tried 30 food sieged tanks vs 60 food hydras with range upgrade. Before patch, T loses 1 tank. After patch, T loses 3 tanks. Very huge difference though. But why would I trade 60 food hydras for 3 tanks.... =D Thanks for running this test. | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
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Vanimar
220 Posts
The main problem lies in the Terran race per se. While the units are basically ok, they just feel way way too versatile. I do not have to build a building for banshees or tanks or anything, so you will never know what I'm going for. Even if you guess right, I can still switch addons. Also, as mentioned above, the units itself are insanely versatile. There is almost no unit which is not generally useful. Also, Marauders do not need their numbers reduced. They should just not run faster when stimmed (immobility, Terran trait) That being said I think the BC nerf was even a mistake, since it's an end tier unit and supposed to kick ass. My suggestion would be to go into directions like: 1. Prevent the insanely fast tech (maybe you need Engi bay to bouild factoy same as core or lair / Armory for T3 stuff) 2. Maybe get some specific buildings for units like Banshee/Tank etc to make scouting possible 3. Change Dropships. Maybe an upgrade which enables drop capabilities and turns them green or something 4. Get rid of Bonus speed for Marauders when stimming. (And maybe reduce Building Damage due to those ugly basedrop/buildingsnipe stuff but not too sure) Those are the kind of changes which imo would make a lot more sense then playing with numbers. EDIT: My Main Point is this (in case I'm confusing): Give Terran all the Firepower you want, just take mobility and versatility away in return. | ||
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vnlegend
United States1389 Posts
What I'd like to see is a slight speed boost to the overlords so that they can check on things and be able to escape, provided they don't venture in too far. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On September 24 2010 16:08 Klive5ive wrote: No, that's the general consensus among Terran players. The reason for that is because on the ladder they have less APM than their Zerg point score equivalents. So when it gets to late-game they can't keep up with multi-tasking. Watch a very good Terran player like BratOK and DeMuslim; they have monstrous TvZ lategames. Common sense dictates that Zerg will have the edge in the late game under certain conditions and you cant deny that. The ability to reproduce an army instantly in ONE production cycle is huge, but you will need the economy for that. This can be ensured by having a lot of bases and map control, which Mutalisks can gain relatively easily ... even against Terrans. The trick is to survive to that point and it is almost impossible unless you can stop the harrassment against you and start applying pressure on your opponent yourself. Then you have the time to get the economy and larvae production rolling to eventually trade off a full army and be faster with reproducing the next one and thus gaining an army advantage immediately. Just watch CheckPrime vs. justfakeWeRRa in the GSL for an example as to how Zerg can win easily if left alone. The patch did not change anything for this "early issue" of harrassment against Zerg. Blizzard missed the target and caved in to the whiners who still think the siege Tank overpowered ... even when it doesnt get used by half the Terrans. | ||
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Scottymc
Australia134 Posts
Maurders need to do 8 dmage to light +12 to armored. Fixed. | ||
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Losticus
United States62 Posts
Blizzard missed the target and caved in to the whiners who still think the siege Tank overpowered ... even when it doesnt get used by half the Terrans. Is there a Terran unit Zergs don't whine about? *Thinking... Battlecruisers? Nah, especially with SCV repair. That means no to SCV's as well. Hmm... Ghosts! They don't whine about ghosts! Whew, I'm glad we could fine ONE terran unit free from insectoid tears.* | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On September 24 2010 16:48 Losticus wrote: Is there a Terran unit Zergs don't whine about? *Thinking... Battlecruisers? Nah, especially with SCV repair. That means no to SCV's as well. Hmm... Ghosts! They don't whine about ghosts! Whew, I'm glad we could fine ONE terran unit free from insectoid tears.* actually ghosts invalidate the only solid counter to turtle mech play so much for that | ||
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sadyque
Romania251 Posts
On September 24 2010 16:50 IdrA wrote: actually ghosts invalidate the only solid counter to turtle mech play so much for that Any suggestions on how to buff zerg without nerfing terran to fix your problems? All i hear from everyone is nerf this nerf that. Think about buffing zerg not nerfing everyone else to be on par. edit: i hear blizz iz watching as we type -.- | ||
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
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BoZo
Iraq10 Posts
On September 24 2010 12:46 theqat wrote: OL speed was 50/50 for much of beta 'til Blizzard said "we don't want upgrades to be a no-brainer" and then made Concussive Grenades 50/50 :facepalm: HAHHAHAHHAHA | ||
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decemvre
Romania639 Posts
For zerg to be fixed units like Overseer / Corruptor need a complete rework of their abbilities. Neural Parasite needs to not be useless and the roach needs a serious buff. How is it that Terran has 0 useless units / abbilities while Zerg has a ton ? To avoid having useless units and abbilities they made every terran unit and every terran spell do insane damage or last forever and not cost much. Ghosts were severily underused in BW. What do they do ? They give the ghost insanely goo abbilities as well as a very high damage against light units. The Overseer and the corruptor are close to garbage compared to the "toys" the other races get. I wasn't EVER going to complain about the creep but hidras are so bad offcreep its ridiculous. I love the idea behind the creep, i LOVE it, but while it gives the other units an advantage it makes hidras be usefull on creep only. That internal patch that was accidentaly released needs to come out NOW. Double the base overlord speed, increase the upgraded overlord speed, etc However nothing will give zerg a way to stop mass drops by terran thats currently in the game right now. Whatever, im gonna go get breakfast now. This patch was just a huge dissapointment. | ||
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drlame
Sweden574 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On September 24 2010 16:33 Rabiator wrote: Why would I deny what I just said. Zerg have the edge under the condition that the Terran is worse.Common sense dictates that Zerg will have the edge in the late game under certain conditions and you cant deny that. On September 24 2010 16:33 Rabiator wrote: Then you link an example of a Zerg who is better than his Terran opponent; this does nothing for your argumentJust watch CheckPrime vs. justfakeWeRRa in the GSL for an example as to how Zerg can win easily if left alone. Show me a replay of oGsTOP lategame TvZ and try to argue that the Zerg has an advantage. | ||
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yonderbob
2 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
On September 24 2010 14:56 lambnrice wrote: There is no worse feeling that funneling your hydras into a constant stream of seige tank fire. They're way too slow and fragile to even consider against tanks. That nerf does not effect hydras in any major way. thats why you don't funnel units for any battle in any matchup on any map...ever. That should have been an obvious one. | ||
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Iamyournoob
Germany595 Posts
Yesterday I happened to play some 2v2s with a friend. In one game we decided to push early. I went for ling+roaches he went for bio. Looking at the statistics after the game, my buddy had better economy + better army. Now the game after that took place on Twilight Fortress (horrible map, but great for Z). When I random Z on that map i go hatch before pool make 2 spinecrawlers and get mutas. It works very well when ur terran ally walls off. The funny thing was that even though I devoted all my larvae to drones and overlords it took a lot of time till I really had a big advantage over my ally in terms of economy. But hey he had a nice army instead and could have crushed me at any time. It feels kinda odd. As zerg you need a strong economy to win. But at the current state, this seems so hard with all those small maps and zerg also having so weak units. There just so many problems. Too many to adress them all. But one thing that is really bothering me is how many zerglings u need to make them actually be effective. Compared to the usefulness of zealots and marines they are a joke. Furthermore as zerg u dont have any ranged unit at tier one (oh yeah queens, great, roaches don't count: range 3 and not able to shoot air) which makes zerg seem so inversitile. What scares me most is, that all these things can't be solved by just patching. I am really afraid that the overall zerg design is just bad. Tweaking numbers will help but not solve the issues. | ||
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