EPTIdrA Speaks On: Patch 1.1 - Page 11
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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Losticus
United States62 Posts
On September 24 2010 16:50 IdrA wrote: actually ghosts invalidate the only solid counter to turtle mech play so much for that So in other words, every single Terran unit is OP against Zerg, according to you and others. Cognitive bias can be overwhelming, but, that doesn't sound the least bit extreme to you? I'm beginning to think Zergs won't be happy until every Terran unit is nerfed 80% or the race is taken out of the game entirely. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:09 Klive5ive wrote: Why would I deny what I just said. Zerg have the edge under the condition that the Terran is worse. Then you link an example of a Zerg who is better than his Terran opponent; this does nothing for your argument Show me a replay of oGsTOP lategame TvZ and try to argue that the Zerg has an advantage. You need to READ my post too. I wrote that IF A TERRAN LEAVES THE ZERG ALONE he can get the upper hand easily (it never was a question of "which player is better"). The game I linked to showed that very clearly, so the "imbalance" results from the harrassment and not the actual units / mechanics of the Terrans themselves. Separate two "top players" by a larger ground rush distance than is currently possible on Blizzard maps at the start and you actually give Zerg a fair chance. That would be a very easy solution to the whole problem IMO ... | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
Idra, when posting something that has to do with game prediction, lets just say his prediction, most of the time, the opposite happens. idk if someone already posted this but im just saying .. no flaming intended .. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:00 sadyque wrote: Any suggestions on how to buff zerg without nerfing terran to fix your problems? All i hear from everyone is nerf this nerf that. Think about buffing zerg not nerfing everyone else to be on par. edit: i hear blizz iz watching as we type -.- probably up overlord base speed reasonably, make neural parasite either 50 mana + an upgrade or 75 mana and no upgrade, and it needs to last longer. or if you want zerg to be more swarm-y buff hydras and roaches, hydras off creep speed up and probably hp up, and roachs 4 range or 2 armor, maybe faster burrow speed, and switch hydra/roach on the tech tree. also the ability to block a ramp with 2 pylons and 2 bunkers needs to be addressed, im not sure if they can make unbuildable areas that would prevent it but still allow normal building walls but that would work. these probably seem like really big changes but people actually massively underestimate just how bad the balance is. i honestly doubt the changes i suggested would be enough. | ||
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SoJu.WeRRa
Korea (South)820 Posts
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:27 IdrA wrote: probably up overlord base speed reasonably, make neural parasite either 50 mana + an upgrade or 75 mana and no upgrade, and it needs to last longer. or if you want zerg to be more swarm-y buff hydras and roaches, hydras off creep speed up and probably hp up, and roachs 4 range or 2 armor, maybe faster burrow speed, and switch hydra/roach on the tech tree. also the ability to block a ramp with 2 pylons and 2 bunkers needs to be addressed, im not sure if they can make unbuildable areas that would prevent it but still allow normal building walls but that would work. these probably seem like really big changes but people actually massively underestimate just how bad the balance is. i honestly doubt the changes i suggested would be enough. ye i think switching hydras with roaches on the tech tree along with some changes to them would fix a lot of stuff i really think they should give it a try | ||
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Kentaro
Germany53 Posts
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decemvre
Romania639 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:13 yonderbob wrote: I agree with idra to some point hes missing THE huge impact THE 5 sec zealot ijveraar has. Against a 6 pool even with à 10 gate u get THE zealot out just 3 sec to late Against perfect timings. Against an proxy marauder push its ........... Ill leave That blank. I do agree with idra That there still neef to be. More changes but i think hè and we still meed to realise THE full effect of this patch. Do you f-ing think good players care about f-ing 6 pool ? That stuff is easily fixed with maps. What on earth makes you think that you should not take any damage from a 6 pool ? The zerg has 7 f-ing drones on minerals, no tech, no queen and no gas. "Oh my god i cannot block my ramp with a zealot against a 6 pool and make this all-in rush totally useless." Let me tell you something, if its an all-in attack like that you should BARELY make it out alive or with a slight advantage IF you microed your little heart out. A 2 gate proxy against a 14 pool used to be freewin. You needed to scout it and go for 12 or 13 pool, (but how can you scout that early ?) Then make a spine crawler (that takes 55 seconds to build) and then micro your brains out just to stay alive with 8~9 drones left. Moreover if you chronoboost your first f-ing zealot comes out just 2.5 GAME SECONDS later. Thats 1.8 real f-ing seconds give me a break. 6 pooling against any other race than zerg is worthless. The maps are shit. I've made a thread here on TL asking for tournament organizers to start using custom maps. I've gotten alot of votes for "Yes" but no tournament organizer game it any attention. In BroodWar we had 3 to 5 new maps every new season of OSL / MSL; Blizzard clearly has NO intention of providing us with balanced maps or throwing away the existing trash. Since all they do is add a few rocks here and there. The LostTemple cliff abuse issue WAS NOT SOLVED. I would bet my life on the fact that the way noobs at blizzard think is the following: Can zerg get mutas before terran can drop a thor / tank / marines on their cliff ? Off 1 base, Yes. Can zerg get the drop upgrade before terran can drop a thor / tank / marines on their cliff ? Using 1 base timings and if they rush for it, Yes. Ah, then the f-ing game is fine, people just need to learn to play better. Well the f-ing game is more complicated than that. It makes me laugh whenever i hear noobs arguing that the people who designed the game know more about balancing than the progamers playing the game for 10 hours a day. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
probably the best idea ever .. srsly .. i never get the point why hydra was nerfed so bad in this game and wasn't buffed .. ITS NOT LIKE ZERG HAS A LOT OF UNIT TYPES IN THEIR ARSENAL!! | ||
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Minimi][
Germany43 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:27 IdrA wrote: probably up overlord base speed reasonably, make neural parasite either 50 mana + an upgrade or 75 mana and no upgrade, and it needs to last longer. or if you want zerg to be more swarm-y buff hydras and roaches, hydras off creep speed up and probably hp up, and roachs 4 range or 2 armor, maybe faster burrow speed, and switch hydra/roach on the tech tree. also the ability to block a ramp with 2 pylons and 2 bunkers needs to be addressed, im not sure if they can make unbuildable areas that would prevent it but still allow normal building walls but that would work. these probably seem like really big changes but people actually massively underestimate just how bad the balance is. i honestly doubt the changes i suggested would be enough. Zerg is broken by design no reasonable nerf or bug can fix that, e.g. Zerg has no shoot while cloak unit like protoss or terran, burrowed infestor harras only works if u dump insane amounts of gas into it, and they are slow as hell hopes up for HotS and the epic lurker comeback, until then, zerg free GSL season 3-16 | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
"These changes would have made for a good patch a month ago" the patch-changes are by no means bad as they adress balance issues that do in fact exist; but they simply adress issues that were imminent one month ago; I've rarely seen good protoss-players go with early zealots vs zerg in the last couple of weeks....most go for FE (with or without early forge) or 3 gate expand; the patch-changes simply should've been implemented at the time they were announced, so that BY NOW we could have another patch that goes way deeper | ||
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1Lamb1Rice
United States435 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:15 zomgtossrush wrote: thats why you don't funnel units for any battle in any matchup on any map...ever. That should have been an obvious one. sorry didn't mean it in that sense. I mean it in the sense that if you have hydras, and he has tanks, you're gonna be under constant stream of tank fire. Just too slow. | ||
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:27 IdrA wrote: also the ability to block a ramp with 2 pylons and 2 bunkers needs to be addressed, im not sure if they can make unbuildable areas that would prevent it but still allow normal building walls but that would work. If the maps were bigger the Zerg could have more defensive forces [SPEAK: any] to prevent the pylon wall-in and terran bio units are at the mercy of Speedlings until they reach the safety of the bunker, so a longer distance would help there too. Bigger maps seem to be an easy solution for this problem without needing to add new mechanics, because even though you could add "unbuildable areas" to the maps it would screw the Terrans who would like to wall off at the bottom of their ramp. Another solution might be to give a Hatchery the ability to spawn a creep tumor and thus spread the creep faster. This might even solve part of the problem of not being able to cover ramps with Spine Crawlers early enough - as Zelniq pointed out in his "Scrap Station imbalance"-thread; larger main bases do have this problem. Maybe moving the "dump creep" ability for Overlords from T2 to T1 would help too ... | ||
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:43 Rabiator wrote: If the maps were bigger the Zerg could have more defensive forces [SPEAK: any] to prevent the pylon wall-in and terran bio units are at the mercy of Speedlings until they reach the safety of the bunker, so a longer distance would help there too. Bigger maps seem to be an easy solution for this problem without needing to add new mechanics, because even though you could add "unbuildable areas" to the maps it would screw the Terrans who would like to wall off at the bottom of their ramp. Another solution might be to give a Hatchery the ability to spawn a creep tumor and thus spread the creep faster. This might even solve part of the problem of not being able to cover ramps with Spine Crawlers early enough - as Zelniq pointed out in his "Scrap Station imbalance"-thread; larger main bases do have this problem. Maybe moving the "dump creep" ability for Overlords from T2 to T1 would help too ... agreed since start i allways said dump creep should be t1 | ||
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illumination
Korea (South)248 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:27 IdrA wrote: probably up overlord base speed reasonably, make neural parasite either 50 mana + an upgrade or 75 mana and no upgrade, and it needs to last longer. or if you want zerg to be more swarm-y buff hydras and roaches, hydras off creep speed up and probably hp up, and roachs 4 range or 2 armor, maybe faster burrow speed, and switch hydra/roach on the tech tree. also the ability to block a ramp with 2 pylons and 2 bunkers needs to be addressed, im not sure if they can make unbuildable areas that would prevent it but still allow normal building walls but that would work. these probably seem like really big changes but people actually massively underestimate just how bad the balance is. i honestly doubt the changes i suggested would be enough. I just want to let you know that i love you and that you should stop trying to reason with these idiots and come over to your fanclub  We are much more pleasant to talk to | ||
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decemvre
Romania639 Posts
On September 24 2010 17:27 IdrA wrote: probably up overlord base speed reasonably, make neural parasite either 50 mana + an upgrade or 75 mana and no upgrade, and it needs to last longer. or if you want zerg to be more swarm-y buff hydras and roaches, hydras off creep speed up and probably hp up, and roachs 4 range or 2 armor, maybe faster burrow speed, and switch hydra/roach on the tech tree. also the ability to block a ramp with 2 pylons and 2 bunkers needs to be addressed, im not sure if they can make unbuildable areas that would prevent it but still allow normal building walls but that would work. these probably seem like really big changes but people actually massively underestimate just how bad the balance is. i honestly doubt the changes i suggested would be enough. I'm sorry but i dont agree with the roach / hidra switch on the tech tree. Just give queens a bit more anti-air damage and its fine. Yes hidras instead of roaches would deal superbly with the 4 warp gate madness but thats not the point. You should be able to hold that with ling / roach and 1 or 2 spine crawlers. (I'm not saying that you can do it reasonably well right now) Edit: On second though, instead of 4 range on roaches, i think a decrease in the size of forcefields would be a nice idea. Make it so that it takes 2 FF to completely block a ramp and that roach can shoot over FF a little better. Of course this would also mean nerfing terran in early game against protoss. If you increase the queen damage slightly and double the base overlord speed then cloaked banshee / voidrays should be ok. 4 range on roaches would make reapers worthless so I'll go with 2 armor. They nerfed the roach armor before they nerfed the roach supply and they never gave it another thought. Thats how bad these people are at balancing their own game. They should have put the roach back on 2 armor the moment they made it 2 supply, but god forbid should they go back on one of their decisions. That would make them look like complete idiots. | ||
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