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On September 25 2010 09:24 ckw wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 08:29 bokeevboke wrote:
I honestly think that scan should reveal only fog and does not detect cloaked units. It limits options of other races too much.
Detectors by far:
Terran - Raven, Turrets, EMP, Scan.
Zerg - Overseer, Spore, FG.
Protoss - Observer, Cannon, Storm.
Not fair. Protoss and Zerg always forced to tech because of banshees (which are easiest to get and most deadly amongst cloaked units). Whilst terran is always safe to some degree from insta dying to cloaked units.
Removing uncloak ability from scan would've opened so much variety and give options to zerg and protoss vs terran. Right now terrans are invincible against burrowed roach or DTs. It also would be fun to watch imho.
Edit: Just imagine zerg rushing for burrowed roaches ( like a terran for banshees). And sending them right into mineral line and micro burrow/unburrow. It would be so fun and not imbalanced. Terran can easily get Raven or turret either way. No offense but people need to stop comparing races like apples to apples. There completely different and each race has it's ups and downs. So Terran has one more way to detect cloaked units, big deal it's really not game breaking.
I didn't say its game breaking. As for balance its ok. But scan limits fun strategies for other races. As a spectator I would like to see more ninja play. And if uncloak ability is removed I think it won't hurt balance much.
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As a Terran player who has switched to Zerg, I already know the vision sight so I know what to hide from. Althougth from a new players perspective it might be thought that the animation would be all that you would see when idealy it's really about 40% circumference more.
Edit: To comment on bokeevboke misunderstanding of why Terrans have an extra dectection ability, If you notice Terran's arsenal of cloaked units are Ghost/Banshee's. These units can not permanently cloak like DTs, burrowed units, observers, and units within a motherships aura.
Like the poster quoting you, this game isn't apples to apples, Z/P can permanently cloak their units, while Terran can not, so theoretically the energy is a dynamic in it's self for Z/P.
So my point being despite your limited numbers in detection our harrassment can not be as constant as Z or P. You need to think about how much those scans have costed a terrans high mineral army in the long run.
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Why would anyone want it to cover the actual size? When I go back to my base I don't want my whole fucking screen covered in a scan. And really, it isn't hard to hide tech. Just make an Overlord poop somewhere else in your base, don't try to hide stuff on the hatchery creep.
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I agree that the borders of the scan should somehow be visible. It can be extremely hard to tell if the terran has seen or not seen your tech in some borderline circumstances, and it's pretty frustrating ://
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Updated original post to correct any misunderstanding with my argument... Many people are thinking my argument has something to do with hiding tech. Wrong. It's simply the best way to explain the situation.
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On September 24 2010 10:04 Keitzer wrote:bro wtf kinda screenshot is that you're viewing all the vision...not just terran... come back wit a better screenshot  sorry about the bm... but when you're trying to prove a point, dont post a false image and call it imba
LOL best quote. Yep thats how big the scan is. It looks like "all player vision."
Look at the minimap more carefully before u go BM.
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Well is it really difficult to think:
"Oh, he scanned this area; he can see basically everything on my screen right now."
This issue doesn't increase the learning curve of this game, it reduces screen clutter.
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On September 24 2010 10:29 JinDesu wrote:![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ZV4aN.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/mE58W.jpg) There, you guys happy now? Full screenshot? Note the diff from the terran scanner icon to what the other player will see? Note the sheer size difference? Click the picture, then do "view image" for maximum size.
I'm probably blind, but then i look at it, it seems almost identical size, look at mineral line and gas..... its same radius there ..
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The texture that the Protoss player sees (The animation with the swirling radar). Not the red casting circle that the Terran player sees.
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On a serious note, threads like these seem be all over TL and really serve no purpose than a giant circle jerk of complaining and flaming. It would be different if it was a problem that, well mattered and could have a solution given by TL members. As you can see it's honestly a learn from it and go on rather than a "I hope a blizzard employee sees this and alerts the devs"
Yes, the animation deceives us a tiny bit you now know that, but other than acknowledging that and moving on people for some reason turn this into a discussion with no other purpose than getting angry.
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as you can see from the pic the radius that the terran player sees is about 4 units longer than the radius of the scan that the protoss player sees. that is, about 1.5 gateway lengths. therefore you can estimate, using the powers of your mind, how much the terran player can actually see, based on the little graphic.
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On September 26 2010 02:29 kYem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 10:29 JinDesu wrote:There, you guys happy now? Full screenshot? Note the diff from the terran scanner icon to what the other player will see? Note the sheer size difference? Click the picture, then do "view image" for maximum size. I'm probably blind, but then i look at it, it seems almost identical size, look at mineral line and gas..... its same radius there ..
he's not talking about the size of the original icon to what the terran will see, he's talking about how tiny the little yellow thing is compared to what the terran is really seeing
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On September 26 2010 02:29 kYem wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 10:29 JinDesu wrote:There, you guys happy now? Full screenshot? Note the diff from the terran scanner icon to what the other player will see? Note the sheer size difference? Click the picture, then do "view image" for maximum size. I'm probably blind, but then i look at it, it seems almost identical size, look at mineral line and gas..... its same radius there ..
he also moved the view down in the lower screenshot, just look at the distance from the gas to the interface, everyhting is put back making it look smaller
or the upper screen is zoomed in
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On September 26 2010 01:38 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 09:24 ckw wrote:On September 25 2010 08:29 bokeevboke wrote:
I honestly think that scan should reveal only fog and does not detect cloaked units. It limits options of other races too much.
Detectors by far:
Terran - Raven, Turrets, EMP, Scan.
Zerg - Overseer, Spore, FG.
Protoss - Observer, Cannon, Storm.
Not fair. Protoss and Zerg always forced to tech because of banshees (which are easiest to get and most deadly amongst cloaked units). Whilst terran is always safe to some degree from insta dying to cloaked units.
Removing uncloak ability from scan would've opened so much variety and give options to zerg and protoss vs terran. Right now terrans are invincible against burrowed roach or DTs. It also would be fun to watch imho.
Edit: Just imagine zerg rushing for burrowed roaches ( like a terran for banshees). And sending them right into mineral line and micro burrow/unburrow. It would be so fun and not imbalanced. Terran can easily get Raven or turret either way. No offense but people need to stop comparing races like apples to apples. There completely different and each race has it's ups and downs. So Terran has one more way to detect cloaked units, big deal it's really not game breaking. I didn't say its game breaking. As for balance its ok. But scan limits fun strategies for other races. As a spectator I would like to see more ninja play. And if uncloak ability is removed I think it won't hurt balance much.
Well actually, when comparing the moving detector units, a raven is much harder to get than an overseer or an observer is. Takes longer to build, arguably requires more tech, is more expensive and quite easy to kill.
Scan is there to balance this fact. It was the same in SC1, just replace ravens with science vessels.
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Thats really annoying, when you think your building is hidden but it isnt :C
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yeah they should consider fixing this, but i guess as time goes on you'll get used to how big the actual scan is
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They can keep the current graphic, all they would have to do is add a thin line or border where the fog of war ends ends for the Terran player. Or even make revealed units and structures get a greenish "tint" (think of hallucinations blue tint) when they are revealed by a scan, I don't think that would clutter the screen. Not sure why it remains so vague.
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It's fine the way it is. It just adds more skill in that you have to have experience and try to guage how far the scan can see.
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This is really interesting
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The last comment from Orb really shows how different we think about it now. But SCAN looks different now, it's upsetting that you can lose DTs walking to high ground, because from low ground you cannot see the SCAN sprite, but they might've fixed it in one of the many bug fixes.
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EPT
