EPT
.Fruitseller (Cool) may change his race in GSL #2 - Page 67
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joheinous
Iceland522 Posts
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SpiDaH
France198 Posts
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
You could see how releived he was at todays games though... I don't think he was expecting that result. I think Top made a bunch of general mistakes that he might be lucky against in the future. especially in the second game. | ||
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Ai52487963
United Kingdom136 Posts
On September 25 2010 00:43 iNty.sCream wrote: why its so bad to swap roaches and hydras in the tech tree, while nerfing the hydra , making it 1 supply while redesign the roach into that unit that it was designed for - for taking damage with regen. i honestly dont think this would be terribly OP. I think a lot of problems could be solved by swapping the two like you suggest. Tier 1.5 -Gives the Zerg better AA options. The queen is a very good early game AA unit, but can't be massed very well. If there's a proxy stargate and a void ray attacking a zerg expo, currently, unless the zerg had scouted and prepared way in advance by making more queens than necessary, it's just about GG. Upgrade for hydra range -Long-range hydras feel too strong for a tier 1.5 unit maybe Upgrade for hydra speed to be a bit less than current on-creep hydras. -This I think is the biggest game changer in the zerg playbook. With hydras being so bound to creep, there's very little early game containment options available. For now it seems like mutas work so much better for air-contain than hydras ever could. But even then, that comes at tier 2, not 1.5. Decrease attack speed -A real no brainer. No one's going to think current hydra attack speed and damage output would ever be balanced at tier 1.5, especially if you make them more mobile off-creep. I feel like against early 3-4 gate pushes, roaches trying to defend an expo are pretty terrible unless you have burrow *and* burrow movement, both tier 2 research. If tier 1.5 hydras exited, I feel like the greater range (but not too much) could help in doing damage from across force fields. Roaches just can't get in there to do the damage they need to. Of course, with hydras being tier 1.5, it would make hellion pushes that much harder to stop, if they retain their 'light' status. Maybe this is okay, since early hellion pushes never really top more than like 4-8 hellions. Hydras holding a ramp could deal with that pretty easily, maybe? Same goes for reapers. If tier 1.5 hydras could only outrange reapers with a range upgrade, it would still give T some options for early game harass. Research for the range could finish, theoretically, before the critical mass of like 10 reapers, giving the zerg more breathing room. That then forces the terran to do something more creative than a tech switch to 5-rax marauder like it is currently. On the other side of the coin, having tier 2 roaches would feel more natural. A 2-supply, tier 1 unit doesn't feel all that zergy. If the armor was re-upped to 2 and the roach was moved to tier 2, then ZvZ wouldn't be such a huge roach-fest, since hydras, banelings and zerglings are already out on the field. I feel it would help to increase unit diversity as well in ZvZ early game. Maybe also giving roaches free burrow like how lurkers had them in BW would be something to look into? I feel like either burrow, or burrow movement (but not the regen) for roaches should be free to encourage more burrowed harassment tactics. With them being tier 2, I'm iffy about the speed upgrade. It could be necessary or not, depends on how it jives with the theorized hydra change. All in all, it feels like a better decision. There's a ton of things wrong with zerg, but I think either this, or changing the creep and speed mechanic (I'm in favor it slowing down enemy units that touch the ground, read: not reapers, probes, SCVs or other drones) are the first major steps in retooling zerg. | ||
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jiabung
United States720 Posts
GSL SPOILERS: + Show Spoiler + On September 25 2010 01:07 Milkis wrote: - What do you think of Patch 1.1 ▲ The time when I recovered my condition was around the time when the patch went live, and after that, I didn't lose as much. It's because Terran didn't come rushing as much anymore, since I'm just playing as I normally do.  Clide and other Terrans started saying that they can't beat Zerg anymore, but I think they're only saying that because they're used to thinking that when Terran faces Zerg, they need to win 9 out of 10 times [laugh]- Recently, You've vented about difficulties about Zerg at an online community. ▲ That was the day right before the patch. Even though I had a huge advantage, I had no way to win and no way to play through, but after the whining, things started opening up a bit [laugh]. If there was no patch I would have quit playing Zerg, but now that there's a patch, I'll continue to play Zerg. | ||
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
On September 24 2010 02:46 Abdiel wrote: Oh my god if this game becomes another warcraft 3 I don't know what I'll do... I propose enjoy. WC3 was and of course still is an absolutely awesome game. | ||
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McFoo
United Kingdom180 Posts
TOP's play seemed like a TLO opening with the super-fast reactor-hellions, but he didn't get ENOUGH hellions. You need to mass them and keep zerg contained and making roaches like TLO did against LosirA @ Xel'naga caverns. | ||
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skirmisheR
Sweden451 Posts
On September 25 2010 01:09 Ai52487963 wrote: Decrease attack speed -A real no brainer. No one's going to think current hydra attack speed and damage output would ever be balanced at tier 1.5, especially if you make them more mobile off-creep. Well, 2 marines do more damage than a hydra, costs no gas, moves faster. They are better in any way, they are even less vulnerable to storms (has been tested, more resources die by a storm if you storm hydras than if you storm marines) and other aoe-attacks EVEN though they have a smaller base. And they're not even tier 1.5, they're tier 1. If you take stim into concideration the comparation becomes more ridiculous. I agree with you about a lot of things but saying that hydras would be op when they aren't even on even ground with marines AFTER buffing their movement speed and taking them to T1.5 isn't very smart. no offence | ||
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tackklee
United States270 Posts
On September 25 2010 00:49 Flummie wrote: Cool owned the best player from OGS so I guess there is no need from him switching race as he is kicking ass. And the numbers aren't that much of a difference anymore Terran: 6 Zerg: 2 Protoss: 4 or 3 I think fruitseller is making zerg vs terran a little bit more balanced :D He did an amazing job! I really hope there isn't a slightest hint of 'zerg is balanced' in what you said. + Show Spoiler + I have no idea why TOP would open up with such good harass and then just sit in his base and let Cool make 90 drones. TOP would have taken Cool out easily if he had maintained pressure in both the games he lost. Cool is an amazing player and he deserved the wins but I think we all know that it doesn't automatically make zerg 'more balanced'. With the amount of effort Cool put into those games, he simply outplayed a lesser terran. Just look back at how overwhelmed with relief he was. Anyways amazing job to Cool. | ||
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Karkadinn
United States132 Posts
On September 25 2010 01:19 LittleeD wrote: I propose enjoy. WC3 was and of course still is an absolutely awesome game. Not if you were undead and didn't feel like going DK every game. | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On September 24 2010 22:03 Proposal wrote: Does anyone else hate the grid lock system for buildings? I was surprised at how "fat" the buildings actually were and how efficient pylons were at blocking off. Also, Zergling's collision size just seems way too big. Completely surrounding units often result in half the lings circling around, just because they can't attack or "fit." These are one of the slight things that are missing for the zerg, compared to BW. Wait, how is that even true? IN SC2 the units clump up better, how would SC1 allow for more zerglings to surround a unit? | ||
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magha
Netherlands427 Posts
On September 24 2010 23:53 LuciferSC wrote: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=2109634 This thread originally featured PlayXP's thread and now this thread got featured on PlayXP. LOL -.-a When stuff like this happens I feel so dissapointed in the lack of English from the Koreans. | ||
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Tropical Bob
United States127 Posts
On September 25 2010 02:00 Xahhk wrote: Wait, how is that even true? IN SC2 the units clump up better, how would SC1 allow for more zerglings to surround a unit? Units tend to ignore good pathing and try to literally push through whatever's in front of them. If a Force Field goes up, units run straight into it. If a Probe gets in the way of your Drone by a Gateway, the Drone runs into the tiny corner and refuses to run around the Probe. Ultralisks run in circles behind other units. I seem to remember units in SC1 at least trying to get around an obstacle. | ||
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DarkspearTribe
568 Posts
- Recently, You've vented about difficulties about Zerg at an online community. ▲ That was the day right before the patch. Even though I had a huge advantage, I had no way to win and no way to play through, but after the whining, things started opening up a bit [laugh]. If there was no patch I would have quit playing Zerg, but now that there's a patch, I'll continue to play Zerg. May I say this thread is done? (: | ||
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crw
Canada70 Posts
On September 25 2010 01:40 skirmisheR wrote: Well, 2 marines do more damage than a hydra, costs no gas, moves faster. They are better in any way, they are even less vulnerable to storms (has been tested, more resources die by a storm if you storm hydras than if you storm marines) and other aoe-attacks EVEN though they have a smaller base. And they're not even tier 1.5, they're tier 1. If you take stim into concideration the comparation becomes more ridiculous. I agree with you about a lot of things but saying that hydras would be op when they aren't even on even ground with marines AFTER buffing their movement speed and taking them to T1.5 isn't very smart. no offence agreed, i'm not quite sure why people think hydras are good, when they're really overpriced marines with different skins and different attack animation. they have less dps than marines and cost 25 more minerals and 50 more gas, people are really in the dark about zerg vs protoss/terran balance :/ | ||
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
On September 25 2010 02:00 Karkadinn wrote: Not if you were undead and didn't feel like going DK every game. People always seems to get stuck on details. Try see the big picture. The smooth feeling of just playing it is all. | ||
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s1eger
United States126 Posts
 but its not anything about balance problems, the patch is new, so i cannot say much.But the weird thing i think ogstop tried to do TLO's build which is fast mass hellions and containing zerg in his base. but he cannot get enoguh.. whyy? i cannot get this point. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 25 2010 02:56 crw wrote: agreed, i'm not quite sure why people think hydras are good, when they're really overpriced marines with different skins and different attack animation. they have less dps than marines and cost 25 more minerals and 50 more gas, people are really in the dark about zerg vs protoss/terran balance :/ Because as far as ground range dps goes, hydras are the only unit zerg has. When you have an army of melee and range 3 units, a lot of environmental factors work against you. Having those range 6 units sorta evens it out. | ||
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crw
Canada70 Posts
On September 25 2010 03:13 JinDesu wrote: Because as far as ground range dps goes, hydras are the only unit zerg has. When you have an army of melee and range 3 units, a lot of environmental factors work against you. Having those range 6 units sorta evens it out. but it doesn't make it OK to be that way - overpriced hydras are overpriced. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On September 25 2010 03:20 crw wrote: but it doesn't make it OK to be that way - overpriced hydras are overpriced. oh no, i think most people agree that the hydra sucks as it is | ||
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