EPT[Trick] Early Game +7% Mineral Boost - Page 28
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
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Sylvr
United States524 Posts
On September 13 2010 13:55 fugimax wrote: APM should be used on meaningful things. Mining is an action that Blizzard has chosen to automate. You should be able to trust the game that it is doing the right / best thing for you on such a simple action as mining resources. That players should be required to visit SC forums to figure out engine bugs that others are using to take advantage of the system is not something Blizzard wants. Additionally, even if we accept that this is an acceptable tactic, do you really want to.. 1. Watch others do this during pro games 2. Do it yourself during your games There's nothing entertaining, funny, tricky, or interesting about this technique. Trump has been doing it on his Stream. If I couldn't see his Mouse movements and hear him talking about it, I probably wouldn't even know he was doing it. More importantly, it's only effective for the first couple minutes of the game, and for MULEs if you have time to spare from your regular macro. It's certainly no LESS fun to watch than the usual first couple minutes of the game. As far as doing it yourself, it's your call. If you do it, fine. If you don't, whatever. Whether or not it's "entertaining, funny, tricky, or interesting" has nothing to do with it. It's competitive. Some would say it's even skillful (depending on how many of your workers you queue up and if you can still manage your rallying at the same time). | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
Who's known about this and for how long??? I can't imagine this taking long to get fully adopted by the pro community. | ||
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eLiE
Canada1039 Posts
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
As long as blizzard does not fix this I see no reason why I should not start managing my early workers now  ESPECIALLY mules. | ||
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smegged
Australia213 Posts
Zerg already require more APM for their start than any other race (pressing "s" before "d" is big when you're talking about needing to spam a few hundred actions in a few seconds) and have tighter timing windows. Terran will gain advantages out of mules that would not otherwise exist. This needs to be patched. | ||
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tsutter
United States52 Posts
On September 13 2010 13:51 Chiburi wrote: I'm not judging whether this trick is good or bad for the game, but it just seems like the type of thing that automine and improved worker ai were made to get rid of. Why remove the need to send your workers to mine if you still need to spend clicks getting the small mineral boost from this? I don't think Blizzard will let this go unpatched. yeah this is how i feel too i'd want to hang myself if i had to incorporate this in to every single game i played On September 13 2010 14:14 smegged wrote: Well this bug favours Terran and hurts zerg the most. Zerg already require more APM for their start than any other race (pressing "s" before "d" is big when you're talking about needing to spam a few hundred actions in a few seconds) and have tighter timing windows. Terran will gain advantages out of mules that would not otherwise exist. This needs to be patched. lmao great post | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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reg
United States134 Posts
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Sylvr
United States524 Posts
On September 13 2010 14:14 smegged wrote: Well this bug favours Terran and hurts zerg the most. Zerg already require more APM for their start than any other race (pressing "s" before "d" is big when you're talking about needing to spam a few hundred actions in a few seconds) and have tighter timing windows. Terran will gain advantages out of mules that would not otherwise exist. This needs to be patched. Zerg gets that all back as the game progresses and the other races have to select several unit producing structures to make their army whereas Zerg only has to select 1. | ||
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shin ken
Germany614 Posts
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Whyzguy
Canada263 Posts
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On September 13 2010 13:52 Gnax wrote: Don't you understand that this is about the time it takes for you to get said mineral and not that you get some random bonus 7 minerals? This is the difference between getting your timing push out at 420 seconds in to the game or 390 seconds. That's 30 seconds faster. This is obviously only in theory, and in reality it's not gonna be this 7%, and there's more factors than minerals but still... you can make your build faster. For those of you who commented that 7 percent is indeed quite large I think you're missed the point of my post. The bonus minerals ONLY factor into the equation in the early game. Even in the early game you're not going to get that big of an advantage seeing as it's only 7 minerals per 100. I do admit I may have overlooked the snowball effect of the advantage therefore it could become a present issue at the end of the game, but I still hold by the theory that this advantage is so overshadowed by other things such as good positioning of an army, nice timing attacks, and knowing when to expand that it doesn't give your opponent that huge of an advantage to change the game. Someone commented earlier about how you can make extra workers with the extra minerals mined. I still say this: for every 700 minerals you get 1 extra worker. If someone is still doing this by the time they've mined a total of 700 minerals then props for the multitasking skills and they deserve a slight advantage seeing the c shiftclick trick is gets very apm intensive toward the midgame where someone is trying to micromanage an army was well. In summary: It's not gamebreaking why remove it. | ||
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tgun
434 Posts
On September 13 2010 13:55 fugimax wrote: APM should be used on meaningful things. Mining is an action that Blizzard has chosen to automate. You should be able to trust the game that it is doing the right / best thing for you on such a simple action as mining resources. That players should be required to visit SC forums to figure out engine bugs that others are using to take advantage of the system is not something Blizzard wants. Additionally, even if we accept that this is an acceptable tactic, do you really want to.. 1. Watch others do this during pro games 2. Do it yourself during your games There's nothing entertaining, funny, tricky, or interesting about this technique. Really? You'd rather watch them spam 1-2-3-4 scroll-highlight all their workers? Much more interesting. It's not like you're even >watching< them in the opening 10 supply unless they're doing some sort of cheese tactic, the commentators are usually just giving you a brief overview of the player, their tendencies etc. This won't change a thing, except eliminate mindless spamming and bring something to actually use your earlygame concentration on. | ||
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QQplay
United States229 Posts
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Apollys
United States278 Posts
On September 13 2010 14:27 QQplay wrote: Go EARL! Yes, that seems to be the lesson of today. | ||
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smegged
Australia213 Posts
On September 13 2010 14:19 Sylvr wrote: Zerg gets that all back as the game progresses and the other races have to select several unit producing structures to make their army whereas Zerg only has to select 1. Early game advantages snowball much more than later game ones do. And this is truly an APM test, nothing more. Having divided attention is far more costly in such a race. The fact is that zerg have the toughest/most unforgiving timings on their early worker construction due to being unable to queue, even for a fraction of a second. In a laggy internet environment (thanks for the lack of LAN play Blizzard >  ) it is even more important for a zerg player to be early with their "d" spam.We're talking a 7% advantage here, it's not minute. All of the pros will be doing it. If they do it for two minutes it may mean saving ten seconds on a rush. That timing window is massive. | ||
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fugimax
United States14 Posts
On September 13 2010 14:25 tgun wrote: Really? You'd rather watch them spam 1-2-3-4 scroll-highlight all their workers? Much more interesting. It's not like you're even >watching< them in the opening 10 supply unless they're doing some sort of cheese tactic, the commentators are usually just giving you a brief overview of the player, their tendencies etc. This won't change a thing, except eliminate mindless spamming and bring something to actually use your earlygame concentration on. Yes, instead we'll all have to listen to the commentators trying to be insightful and explaining this little "trick" every single time a freaking match starts.. "Oh, now, let's check out TLO here ... he's doing the Fast Mine technique where you actually queue up commands to have your SCVs get those minerals just a little bit faster. Over the course of a few minutes, a player can accumulate almost 75 minerals to give him that little edge. <Insert the other commentator adding his 30 seconds of insight to this completely mundane tactic>" Ugh. SC2 needs APM to go towards interesting actions for both players' and spectators' sake. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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DevaB
Canada2 Posts
Tested this by putting 2 workers mining at the same distance on a different patch then boosting 1 worker and just counting the trips. I tested on far patches so it took 12, and even patches that look to have the same distance still have a marginal distance different from the main. So you can slash maybe 1 trip. This seems to be more viable during the first 8 workers, since after that if there is already a worker there he goes to a different patch anyways then on his queue back goes to that first patch... So saying you queue all 6 + 2/4 extra workers during the start you will gain a whole 6/10 trips (30/50 minerals) Going purely with numbers here from op post, for every worker you use this on u gain 5 minerals every ~75 seconds. You will be able to get an extra worker or some basic units out faster that is about it, farther then that you are most likely gonna have something else to do then babysit workers, even then it becomes inefficient when you have 2 workers per patch unless you do it on both of them This is is no way game breaking! Those who utilize this get a marginal advantage, good for them, no reason to qq if you do not want to use it. | ||
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