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8748 Posts
I don't think a commentator should simultaneously be a journalist/reporter. If GOM isn't providing them with information on its players then that's GOM's shortcoming, not the commentators'. Players would need to fill out surveys and do pre-game interviews. It isn't the commentators' job to arrange those things. I'd imagine Tasteless and Artosis are doing everything GOM asks them to do and going beyond that would be taking the director's or someone else's job.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
For entertainment value, Artosis and Tasteless are way better than everyone else for me. I don't even like when commentators get all excited (unless I'm the one playing). I looove the laid back approach, cracking jokes and making funny observations. It's perfect for me.
Camera control can definitely be improved. Ideally, someone else would be controlling the camera. Turning down scroll speeds and clicking the minimap more accurately (so that he doesn't have to scroll at all after he clicks) would definitely help.
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Tasteless is an outstanding play-by-play caster that's very entertaining during slow times. He appeals to a larger audience than Day9 as well. IMO he's more entertaining and a better caster than HD/Husky and he also knows slightly more about the game.
I really think his game knowledge and observer skills are lacking compared to what he had in SC:BW. Hopefully that will change and hopefully he'll figure out the obs controls as well, but he may not have known ahead of time that he would be controlling the camera.
Artosis should be there to provide analysis and player bios. He's doing a decent job now but will obviously improve once there's actually a scene and builds become more apparent. It's hard to expect him to know very much when the game is so new.
This also contributes to their constant bringing up SC:BW information, because that's all the information they have. They definitely could have come to the GSL a bit more prepared, but it's hard to blame them for missing a few things when the game is so new.
The other casters have their faults too and in general I think Tasteless/Artosis are the best team by far.
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I can't find tasteless videos anywhere to give an opinion on this. I tried GomTV but it looks like you have to pay to watch? And youtube search isn't helpful either. Can someone point me in the right direction?
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I just love how excited Tasteless got when he found out the Automaton spawned on the high ground on scrap station.
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The most annoying thing is when a battle is about to happen and tasteless switches the view to somewhere else. By the time he switches back the battle is halfway done. This happens a lot and is really bad.
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On September 10 2010 08:27 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 08:21 Wargizmo wrote:On September 10 2010 07:01 SuperGnu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote:
I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like;
"Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player"
"Sure is dude, sure is"
"Haha, yeah, it is"
"Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it  People in this community love to hate on HD and Husky because it's the popular thing to do. To be honest listening to Tasteless I don't get the impression that he knows much more about the game than either HD or Husky. Don't get me wrong, I like all three casters but people who weren't popular BW players/casters have to work a lot harder to get approval on TL. If you think thats the reason people dont like HD and Husky you are very wrong. People don't like them because they are bad.. Its that simple! People who can't see the bad however love them! These are the same people who are going 4 gate all-in every game in every mu or 1 base Terran the entire game. They are also same people who can't think more than 2 seconds into the future of the game that they are playing. Also in this case "bad = lack of knowledge." To be fair HD and Husky are pretty decent casters and have done a good deal for the community.
Yeah we get it, they're not pro players, but I think the amount of criticism they get on here is very disproportionate to how good they actually are. If HD/Husky makes a bad call or misses something they get held to account for it and it's all over the forums, while if Day9 or Tasteless do the exact same thing no one bats an eyelid or people make excuses for them.
I'm not saying they're bastions of SC knowledge but they certainly do get held to account a lot more than some other casters who are more popular with the TL crowd.
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Maybe we should unite the Plott brothers. Tasteless play-by-play and Day[9] analysis sounds pretty sexy to me.
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On September 10 2010 08:36 lololol wrote:
The most annoying thing is when a battle is about to happen and tasteless switches the view to somewhere else. By the time he switches back the battle is halfway done. This happens a lot and is really bad.
Yeah thats no good when you are the camera >_< He does this naturally because its good to do that when analyzing replays. Just a bad habit he needs to drop when casting.
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I feel like Tastleless and Artosis are really missing the point of casting, especially such an important event.
The point of casting is to provide indepth and accurate play-by-plays of the game, Day9 and Apollo did that wonderfully at IEM. Tastless and Artosis are simply NOT performing.
EXAMPLE
I can't remember the name of the players, which is embaressing. But the Terran that beat Protoss with a Battlecruiser timing attack. Note, this sort of example has been happening regularly.
Tasteless and Artosis didn't say a single word about an Armory, or a battlecruiser being made. They paid no attention to how the game was progressing or even what the players were actually DOING. The game was LITERALLY "Stuff is happening, these players are good, neat stuff with that zealot, OH MY GOD BATTLECRUISER" and the game was over.
The fact is, viewers aren't at all getting a clear idea of what is going on in the game. Tastless and Artosis can be as famous and reputable as they want, and I love listening to them, but they are performing very, very poorly as casters.
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Just leave the production tab. Occaisionally checking income for worker count and army. The resource tab is pretty useless IMO.
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Artosis and tasteless both fill the roll of the color commentator in baseball. The show needs to be a guy there who is serious and does the play by play. I think this why people enjoyed torch so much, he tried to give the play by play. I would propose a third caster that would control the camera so nothing important got missed. This new caster wouldn't get involved in jokes, but would give a sort of play by play.This would let those two do their thing and still have some serious commentating involved.
Edit: I almost never know where players are on upgrades as well. If one player is 0-0 and the other is 3-1 that makes a huge difference. They tend to totally neglect this. I never know what spell type upgrades are being researched either, unless its like a colossus or a banshee.
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I've watched a ton of Tasteless/Superdanielman casts, not to mention 30+ years of traditional sportscasts. I can say that he does a really good job under the circumstances. Keep in mind that for much of the GOM casts, he had no control of the in-game camera, and had to work off of 2 screens and simultaneously listen for directional cues in another language. If you know anything about brain function, this sort of multi-lingual multi-tasking is enormously difficult. He and SDM were fantastic.
Sure it was unpolished, with some corny humor, but substantively well done. They are enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and efficient. But these are young guys who are just evolving out of gamer nerdhood. They deserve a ton of respect and support, especially at the early stage of what promises to be a long and prosperous career.
My tip for them is simply to bone up on English; more efficient ways to communicate game action without resorting to SC nerd lingo (e.g. "rax", "3 gate robo", etc.) The extra time it takes to say the full name of the units and strategies allows you to line up the next thought seemlessly.
If I were them, I'd consult with a basketball or hockey radio commentator to learn some tricks on how to keep up with a fast paced, action packed game.
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On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does.
Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
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On September 10 2010 08:45 Pyre wrote:
Artosis and tasteless both fill the roll of the color commentator in baseball. The show needs to be a guy there who is serious and does the play by play. I think this why people enjoyed torch so much, he tried to give the play by play. I would propose a third caster that would control the camera so nothing important got missed. This new caster wouldn't get involved in jokes, but would give a sort of play by play.This would let those two do their thing and still have some serious commentating involved.
Reminds of how casting is done in Spanish football (soccer) casts. There's 2 main casters, 1 does the more laid back talk, another one adds excitement when there's a possible scoring opportunity, but there's also a 3rd one who's actually down at field and is there to give his commentary from the point of view there (sort of how a 3rd caster for SC would do i guess).
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Am I the only one who thought it was kinda a big thing that Artosis came out of that match and flat out said as a caster, that his opponent was bad, his play was flat out stupid, and he should have won?
Nothing world ending, but Id have to imagine there would be some controversy with him using that professional platform to BM his opponent?
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I honestly don't believe Tastleless is good enough as a player or knowledgeable enough as a caster to do his job as a commentator/observer. Many of the things he says are just flat out wrong and I get the impression that he is just another average random diamond player. (And he is. Just 750 points with an unspectacular record).
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This has probably been said.. but why don't you PM him?
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8748 Posts
On September 10 2010 08:49 Vz0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony. HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother) I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip. tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise. But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
:o The game has been out only a few months and new people are watching every day... These new viewers don't understand the concept of building a CC in any other spot than at the expansion. When Tasteless talked about that, I actually thought "it's really great that he fits in little things like that so that people who are totally new to SC can start to learn these things"
Catering to Platinum and higher players would certainly be bad for the cast. It'd be horrible if they filtered their game knowledge by asking "do most Diamond players already know this?"
The thing is, how are you going to judge a commentator's game knowledge if you are not more knowledgeable? If they tell you something you don't already know, then you have no idea if they're correct or not. If they tell you something you already know and agree with, so you know that they're giving out accurate information, you fault them for saying something that "everyone already knows."
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On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
I don't think a commentator should simultaneously be a journalist/reporter. If GOM isn't providing them with information on its players then that's GOM's shortcoming, not the commentators'. Players would need to fill out surveys and do pre-game interviews. It isn't the commentators' job to arrange those things. I'd imagine Tasteless and Artosis are doing everything GOM asks them to do and going beyond that would be taking the director's or someone else's job.
I totally agree and would have still said so if Tyler didn't. All the random stats we see in BW, I know we're not specifically talking about these but, probably aren't compiled by the commentators. I'm sure there's some data recording team or something in OGN/MBC. We have to give them some credit too, they at least know things about the players they know like IntoTheRainbow for example giving background on his early reaver godliness.
I think GOM could and should definitely support the english casting half more.
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EPT
