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I don't know if anyone can get this to Tasteless, but if he sees it and doesn't take any criticism too badly I think it could really help. I'll post this on the Gom forums as well, but the topics tend to get buried there fast as few people respond.
From watching the Korean stream, I've noticed that their mouse and keyboard scroll sensitivity is quite a bit slower than yours. This helps reduce camera "jerkiness" if you're scrolling around using that method, and you're less likely to slip off someone's base or lose track of a big battle.
Also, they like to show off the players' APM at the start of the game, just as an interesting tidbit to the spectators. You can do this by pressing M, although its certainly not imperative. Your other knowledge of the ingame observer options is pretty good--you don't need to overdo these, although try to learn the hotkeys.
Don't zoom in too too much, as it can be a distraction from the whole scope of the game--and possibly prevent the spectator from enjoying a larger battle. I do appreciate your avid interest in map details and critters though  Although that too can sometimes cause you to miss action or key information.
I generally feel like you're watching the game more like one would watch a replay--jumping around a bit too quickly to check out everything at once. While this is great for learning everything that's going on in the game, it makes spectating a bit harder; we're used to a slow camera without too much excessive movement. Move your mouse cursor slowly as well, or else it serves as a distraction to the spectator.
Overall I feel you're doing an excellent job for just starting. But one key thing is missing--that old Tasteless excitement. Your old energy for intense movements is somewhat muted because you have to know exactly how to follow the action, and your attention is divided. I don't really know how to solve this directly, without giving up and going to the Korean observer...but I'm sure in time you'll be skilled enough to pull off both at once, and we'll get to hear that old Tasteless fire once again. As it stands Artosis is doing a great job filling in during some key battles, and of course his casting analysis is nearly unparalleled.
Anyways, these are just some of my first thoughts, and I know you've been doing all of this to an extent, but it just needs some fine-tuning. Keep doing a great job!
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Tasteless and artosis read the gomtv.net forums for the GSL, you probably have better luck posting over there.
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They also read this forum too.
I have to agree with everything said, and think they should look into the production tab more often to follow builds instead of switching to players base all the time.
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On September 10 2010 06:53 crazeman wrote:
Tasteless and artosis read the gomtv.net forums for the GSL, you probably have better luck posting over there.
They read TL.net forums too, but I would still post it over there as well since the GSL team can relay the information to them in case they miss it.
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I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like;
"Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player"
"Sure is dude, sure is"
"Haha, yeah, it is"
"Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
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In the GOM (broodwar) days I would always prefer watching the korean stream and commentators over Tastless, even though I knew 0 Korean. They were more enthusiastic, had better flow of the game, and more importantly, even without language I always knew what was going on. They never missed an upgrade, a tech building going down, or even something in a fight. Without knowing korean I would still usually know what they were saying, based on what they were showing.
Another reason was because I realised that Tasteless feeds off of his co-caster a TON. This had extremely negative effects when he was casted with lilsusie, who knew almost nothing about the game, and (again, imo) with SuperDanielMan because of the language barrier.
I found when he casted with Artosis in Broodwar he would keep Tasteless more on point, and the commentary between the two would be a lot better. For some reason with this SC2 league its become very apparent that it is no longer the case. Too often tasteless if fumbling with the controls, zoming on dumb effects or doo-dads around the map. They're both telling jokes about units and missing key points throughout games. Not knowing the different tabs and constantly apologizing for not knowing all of the new caster features.
And excuse me if it seems out of line, but if you're one of the few privileged casters that has the opportunity to cast the most prestigious and important Starcraft 2 tournament thus far, you might want to spend a minute learning the tools that are available to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some Tasteless-hating-basher, but if you're just going to make a joke out of the game the entire time you're casting instead of treating it as professionally as the Korean commentators, step aside because I'm sure there are people working very hard who would kill for the opportunity you have.
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I was so dissapointed with the casting when they missed two BC rushes in a row, first game they didnt even show us the starport.
I think they do a decent job, but keep the production tab up, press V if you want to see the players perspective if you wonder if he saw something or not, dont go to his FP view, and try to pay closer attention to the builds, as that's what's the most interesting
Artosis: you have to stop talking about SCBW, stop saying "we can see this is a scbw player" as you rip on everyone who wasn't a scbw pro, this is a new game, don't go on about scbw things.
Also, stop talking about what you would've done, it's really unprofessional and it's not giving us any more information about the game that is going on, never talk about what he should be doing, just talk abotu what they are doing and what direction they could go in, when they take another direction then what you thought, stop talking about the other direction and focus on the direction the game is currently going in.
edit: also, you can't blink stalkers to teh island on scrap station, this was patched ages ago.
also; the handsome comments about you both can get a bit much.
All in all, focus on the players, not you.
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Tasteless is a great player.. but he seems to know just SO little on the other races.
He often contradicts himself. Facepalmed when he kept saying how great artosis was, how smart he was, and how he is not as good in long term games. Then before the game starts he says the long term macro game wll favour artosis... sigh..
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On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote:
I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like;
"Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player"
"Sure is dude, sure is"
"Haha, yeah, it is"
"Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
I think you're alone in your opinions here. They clearly both have a "future in casting" since that's what they do.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote:
I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like;
"Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player"
"Sure is dude, sure is"
"Haha, yeah, it is"
"Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it 
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husky and HD just dont have insight about the game. They see something but dont realize what is most likely, or what can be done. That is the main reason I cant watch them. I will see something building, and be thinking "omg is he really gonna do that?" and HD or husky say something that just doesnt make sense at all and I want to facepalm.
I like tasteless and artosis, they are a good team. They need to work on not talking over each other so much but other than that their actual casting is fantastic. I like that they provide humor during the slower points of the game, then snap back to the game when there is any action. It removes the dullness of like the first couple minutes (or the turtle moments that have been happening in GSL, where both sides just macro).
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United States12607 Posts
The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
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I don't think Tasteless has done his homework on SC2. I think by the time the GSL finishes he will have it down.
Husky and HD have been doing a great job from the start!
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All about the XP. You can't expect Artosis and Tasteless to be great commentators all of a sudden. Give them time
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I agree with a lot of the criticisms above, and I hope Tasteless takes them to heart. Part of his appeal has always been the easy banter, and I appreciate that, but a little more focus on the game would be nice. I'm sure it's a difficult environment, but I shouldn't have to know that a spire is coming because I guessed that the small zerg building was probably a spire -- anytime a new building or upgrade shows up, it should be prominently displayed and at least mentioned.
Also, the fact that the VODs are in low definition means that they need to adjust for that -- little map doodads that look cool in HD just look like pixelated garbage on my screen, and I can't see anything from the observer tabs. Play-by-play needs to be a little more disciplined so that watchers follow the flow of action without having to guess at what's actually happening.
And this is right on:
On September 10 2010 06:58 Disarray wrote:
And excuse me if it seems out of line, but if you're one of the few privileged casters that has the opportunity to cast the most prestigious and important Starcraft 2 tournament thus far, you might want to spend a minute learning the tools that are available to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some Tasteless-hating-basher, but if you're just going to make a joke out of the game the entire time you're casting instead of treating it as professionally as the Korean commentators, step aside because I'm sure there are people working very hard who would kill for the opportunity you have.
If we're paying money to see you cast, the least you can do is to take the time to learn the basic hotkeys. You should move smoothly between the different tabs, telling users things they can't see, and be the first to switch into player views to see what they've seen.
I like Tasteless, and (surprisingly, in this context) Artosis. But come on, guys. Spend a couple hours learning to be at least as competent as the guys who cast for fun from their basements.
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Production tab please! They've been showing the unit tab, but I find that kind of useless because it's so hard to read the numbers on the GOM stream. With the production tab we can see what each player is doing by the icons alone.
They've been doing a great job though, enjoying this commentary duo waaaaaaaaay more than any of the other tournaments I've seen for SC2 so far.
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I like their commentating, eventhough they might improve somethings, it will come in time. Saying Tasteless and Artosis has no future in casting is just + Show Spoiler +
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Tasteless's commentating is superb.
Unfortunately his camerawork is painful and sometime frustrating to watch. He misses on so many stuff, zooms all the time and he never EVER uses the "V" button which (as he already said) doesn't know it exists.
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i dont like when they zoom in to see a unit
makes me dizzy
other than that great casting
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EPT
