I don't know if anyone can get this to Tasteless, but if he sees it and doesn't take any criticism too badly I think it could really help. I'll post this on the Gom forums as well, but the topics tend to get buried there fast as few people respond.
From watching the Korean stream, I've noticed that their mouse and keyboard scroll sensitivity is quite a bit slower than yours. This helps reduce camera "jerkiness" if you're scrolling around using that method, and you're less likely to slip off someone's base or lose track of a big battle.
Also, they like to show off the players' APM at the start of the game, just as an interesting tidbit to the spectators. You can do this by pressing M, although its certainly not imperative. Your other knowledge of the ingame observer options is pretty good--you don't need to overdo these, although try to learn the hotkeys.
Don't zoom in too too much, as it can be a distraction from the whole scope of the game--and possibly prevent the spectator from enjoying a larger battle. I do appreciate your avid interest in map details and critters though Although that too can sometimes cause you to miss action or key information.
I generally feel like you're watching the game more like one would watch a replay--jumping around a bit too quickly to check out everything at once. While this is great for learning everything that's going on in the game, it makes spectating a bit harder; we're used to a slow camera without too much excessive movement. Move your mouse cursor slowly as well, or else it serves as a distraction to the spectator.
Overall I feel you're doing an excellent job for just starting. But one key thing is missing--that old Tasteless excitement. Your old energy for intense movements is somewhat muted because you have to know exactly how to follow the action, and your attention is divided. I don't really know how to solve this directly, without giving up and going to the Korean observer...but I'm sure in time you'll be skilled enough to pull off both at once, and we'll get to hear that old Tasteless fire once again. As it stands Artosis is doing a great job filling in during some key battles, and of course his casting analysis is nearly unparalleled.
Anyways, these are just some of my first thoughts, and I know you've been doing all of this to an extent, but it just needs some fine-tuning. Keep doing a great job!
I have to agree with everything said, and think they should look into the production tab more often to follow builds instead of switching to players base all the time.
On September 10 2010 06:53 crazeman wrote: Tasteless and artosis read the gomtv.net forums for the GSL, you probably have better luck posting over there.
They read TL.net forums too, but I would still post it over there as well since the GSL team can relay the information to them in case they miss it.
I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
In the GOM (broodwar) days I would always prefer watching the korean stream and commentators over Tastless, even though I knew 0 Korean. They were more enthusiastic, had better flow of the game, and more importantly, even without language I always knew what was going on. They never missed an upgrade, a tech building going down, or even something in a fight. Without knowing korean I would still usually know what they were saying, based on what they were showing.
Another reason was because I realised that Tasteless feeds off of his co-caster a TON. This had extremely negative effects when he was casted with lilsusie, who knew almost nothing about the game, and (again, imo) with SuperDanielMan because of the language barrier.
I found when he casted with Artosis in Broodwar he would keep Tasteless more on point, and the commentary between the two would be a lot better. For some reason with this SC2 league its become very apparent that it is no longer the case. Too often tasteless if fumbling with the controls, zoming on dumb effects or doo-dads around the map. They're both telling jokes about units and missing key points throughout games. Not knowing the different tabs and constantly apologizing for not knowing all of the new caster features.
And excuse me if it seems out of line, but if you're one of the few privileged casters that has the opportunity to cast the most prestigious and important Starcraft 2 tournament thus far, you might want to spend a minute learning the tools that are available to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some Tasteless-hating-basher, but if you're just going to make a joke out of the game the entire time you're casting instead of treating it as professionally as the Korean commentators, step aside because I'm sure there are people working very hard who would kill for the opportunity you have.
I was so dissapointed with the casting when they missed two BC rushes in a row, first game they didnt even show us the starport.
I think they do a decent job, but keep the production tab up, press V if you want to see the players perspective if you wonder if he saw something or not, dont go to his FP view, and try to pay closer attention to the builds, as that's what's the most interesting
Artosis: you have to stop talking about SCBW, stop saying "we can see this is a scbw player" as you rip on everyone who wasn't a scbw pro, this is a new game, don't go on about scbw things. Also, stop talking about what you would've done, it's really unprofessional and it's not giving us any more information about the game that is going on, never talk about what he should be doing, just talk abotu what they are doing and what direction they could go in, when they take another direction then what you thought, stop talking about the other direction and focus on the direction the game is currently going in.
edit: also, you can't blink stalkers to teh island on scrap station, this was patched ages ago.
also; the handsome comments about you both can get a bit much.
Tasteless is a great player.. but he seems to know just SO little on the other races.
He often contradicts himself. Facepalmed when he kept saying how great artosis was, how smart he was, and how he is not as good in long term games. Then before the game starts he says the long term macro game wll favour artosis... sigh..
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
I think you're alone in your opinions here. They clearly both have a "future in casting" since that's what they do.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it
husky and HD just dont have insight about the game. They see something but dont realize what is most likely, or what can be done. That is the main reason I cant watch them. I will see something building, and be thinking "omg is he really gonna do that?" and HD or husky say something that just doesnt make sense at all and I want to facepalm.
I like tasteless and artosis, they are a good team. They need to work on not talking over each other so much but other than that their actual casting is fantastic. I like that they provide humor during the slower points of the game, then snap back to the game when there is any action. It removes the dullness of like the first couple minutes (or the turtle moments that have been happening in GSL, where both sides just macro).
The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
I don't think Tasteless has done his homework on SC2. I think by the time the GSL finishes he will have it down. Husky and HD have been doing a great job from the start!
I agree with a lot of the criticisms above, and I hope Tasteless takes them to heart. Part of his appeal has always been the easy banter, and I appreciate that, but a little more focus on the game would be nice. I'm sure it's a difficult environment, but I shouldn't have to know that a spire is coming because I guessed that the small zerg building was probably a spire -- anytime a new building or upgrade shows up, it should be prominently displayed and at least mentioned.
Also, the fact that the VODs are in low definition means that they need to adjust for that -- little map doodads that look cool in HD just look like pixelated garbage on my screen, and I can't see anything from the observer tabs. Play-by-play needs to be a little more disciplined so that watchers follow the flow of action without having to guess at what's actually happening.
And this is right on:
On September 10 2010 06:58 Disarray wrote: And excuse me if it seems out of line, but if you're one of the few privileged casters that has the opportunity to cast the most prestigious and important Starcraft 2 tournament thus far, you might want to spend a minute learning the tools that are available to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some Tasteless-hating-basher, but if you're just going to make a joke out of the game the entire time you're casting instead of treating it as professionally as the Korean commentators, step aside because I'm sure there are people working very hard who would kill for the opportunity you have.
If we're paying money to see you cast, the least you can do is to take the time to learn the basic hotkeys. You should move smoothly between the different tabs, telling users things they can't see, and be the first to switch into player views to see what they've seen.
I like Tasteless, and (surprisingly, in this context) Artosis. But come on, guys. Spend a couple hours learning to be at least as competent as the guys who cast for fun from their basements.
Production tab please! They've been showing the unit tab, but I find that kind of useless because it's so hard to read the numbers on the GOM stream. With the production tab we can see what each player is doing by the icons alone.
They've been doing a great job though, enjoying this commentary duo waaaaaaaaay more than any of the other tournaments I've seen for SC2 so far.
I like their commentating, eventhough they might improve somethings, it will come in time. Saying Tasteless and Artosis has no future in casting is just + Show Spoiler +
Unfortunately his camerawork is painful and sometime frustrating to watch. He misses on so many stuff, zooms all the time and he never EVER uses the "V" button which (as he already said) doesn't know it exists.
Their charm compensates for the lackluster tech info, apm info, unit info, bad camera controls, player info, and weird zoom ins. Way better than Husky and HD imo.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
^^ This. (also, ohai!)
I used to love Tasteless and SuperDan because SDM was sooo technical in his analysis. To steal a term from Day[9], Tasteless really has "the sauce". He's got that great voice for play-by-play, and listening to him cast is, to me, reminiscent of some of the great Harry Caray calls from back in the golden days of baseball.
What the tastosis combo is missing right now, is the supplement to "the sauce". That dude who gives the background behind the players and the moves their making.
Right now, listening to these two is certainly entertaining, but it lacks the degree of professionalism that I crave from (what should be) the pinnacle of SC2 commentary.
edit: Does anyone remember SDM's stories about how different pros came to be? Winning tournaments at PC bangs, and struggling to get through courage? I miss that so much.
The lack of professionalism is clear, and was clear a year ago. Tasteless and Artosis are striving to get better though, and a thread like this will give them more insight on what viewers want/expect.
Tasteless and Artosis: We invite you to work harder to become better casters by being more prepared and thoughtful.
Most of the stuff being criticized are things they'll naturally get better at as they gain more experience. SC2 is a new game. So many people are not giving neither players, casters or even the game itself any chance whatsoever. Calm down and don't be so serious. Helpful criticism is fine, but as usual, it's quickly turning into mindless bashing.
Everyone who has any experience in watching casted games has to know that this cast is really bad.
personally i dont care what the casters are talking, as long as they show me whats going on in the game. But that is not the case here, both artosis and tasteless they dont get anything whats going on. For Example the Torch game were he builds BCs. First they didnt notice the fusion core, than didnt notice that sanZenith didnt scout the fusion core altough he is flying with a observer through Torchs base...
and at 50% : ohhh he builds BCs
just omg ..
its so game deciding that it hurts ..
i could give countless examples, but right now we have to be happy to see some of the fights at least ..
A lot of people have hit it just right. Pretty much everyone enjoys your commentating, and puts you up there as best to watch. But you guys have not shown your finest work so far with preparation. I know its new tourney and you guys are busy but its been a poor effort. Someone unfamiliar with BW and SC2 scene may have purchased the stream and been turned off by lack of professionalism. You guys are my fav personally but just a little more work behind the scenes will do great things for the tourney.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
Plz give me a break. HD and Husky can't even describe what they see on the screen correctly. they have no game sense and miss half the stuff going on. Tastosis might not be perfect but they are leaps and bounds better then HDH. HDH casts at MLG were especially bad.
I personnaly enjoy Tastosis' commentaries. some of those quotes are just epic.
i LOVE tasteless and artosis, they are the best commentator team i've seen so far, people complaining about nit picky things like him not knowing the hot keys is not a big deal at all
u people who are hating will find anything to complain about no matter who is casting, and i'd much rather have a good show that they put on then boring lifeless robot commentating just because it is extremely technically correct
I love the way they cast, its suppose to be fun and not a super serious omg cannot make jokes kind of thing tbh,
Even tho sometimes they do make some weird jokes i still like there casting much much more than the korean style of screaming till your lungs collapse and then yell gg for 5 minutes.
The camera control however could improve allot, i dont like the scroll in (not to huge tho) and i really think they need to focus more on where the actual interesting things are, battles MUST be viewed always and scouting each players base for new techs & buildings.
but other than that im loving the casting and i really enjoy watching it, Both of them are legendary
I think people are forgetting how to do an effective criticism. If you are honestly trying to help them improve, you should be telling them what they are doing wrong AND what they are doing right. I've heard almost every caster at some point on the air talk, apologize, or make a reference to all the the acid they get in threads, comments, and emails. I'm not sure I'd want to be e-famous. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun.
So to balance this thread a bit: I really like Tasteless's and Artosis's enthusiasm. They always seem to be having fun and are obviously enjoying themselves up there.
They actually have good knowledge of who is playing and the team structure in Korea so we get to have all sorts of nice juicy tidbits. The fact that Artosis is actively laddering over there, let us know about things like interesting ghost play in Idra's game.
I think they both have handled technical and other difficulties quite well, despite some obvious lack of organization for the English cast by the directors/producers/crew over there.
I felt like Tasteless did a good job of integrating Torch in as a temporary caster. A couple of time's Torch made some awkward transitions and Tasteless handled them really well. By the time Artosis was playing, I thought Torch was doing a pretty decent job as he gained some confidence.
I really liked when Torch said something to the effect of, "We'll try to be neutral as casters." And Tasteless was basically, "Screw that, I'm rooting him on!" Admittedly the Guy Love is pretty funny...
On September 10 2010 07:10 ILIVEFORAIUR wrote: All about the XP. You can't expect Artosis and Tasteless to be great commentators all of a sudden. Give them time
Guy's be a little restrained with criticism, it's his very first time actually commentating in SC2 and you can't compare it to any other caster. He will definitely improve on many of these aspects as we get more games. What we immediately have is quality Tasteless commentary, great comedy and that alone is enough to deserve high praise.
He's also never had to do his own camera work in GOM SC before I guess, the camera work will improve (but really, I watched some of the Korean versions of these games with English audio synced and the Korean obs missed a ton of things too).
Some suggestions would be to keep an eye on the production tab as much the screen information, as viewers sometimes spot (well in advance) of you spotting new tech structures for example and it's a little frustrating to have you be surprised when it was infront of you for a while :D
The camera work needs little improving but I think they are doing a great job. Some preparation before the games would be nice but it doesn't bother me too much. Actually yea the camera can get a lot better :o Also I love the jokes BUT sometimes there is times you need to be more serious and actually explain what's going on and not laughing to chipmunk's nick.
If they are actually reading this, you are doing a great job! Those are all thing you can improve in the future but I really enjoy the casts and the games and there is really only few casters I actually enjoy watching so good job :o
It's pretty hard to commentate anonymous Korean amateur gamers who nobody knows anything about. You can't comment on background, playstyle or anything and just have to call the game, which becomes very tedious for viewers after several games if you run out of things to say and both players play standard.
Random side note: I was blown away by the quality of the cast made by LZgamer and Incontrol during the Dimaga/Kiwikaki showmatch.
Here's a couple guys that kept it light, and had fun, but still hit on ALL the high points of the game, while also discussing strategy in great depth. (and doing all their own camera work)
I don't think its wrong to expect that same level of quality from guys who are getting paid to do the same thing...
Nonono! Don't change anything! Watching Tasteless and Artosis commenting the critters and making up stupid BW-references is what makes it so entertaining to watch them. I think they're doing just plain awesome, we reaaally need people like them to comment more stuff in SC2.
Artosis and Tasteless are great but I do agree the observing isn't up to standards and it probably doesn't help Tasteless to have to worry about observing and talking at the same time.
I think the observing would just go better if they followed the Korean observer and when/if they needed to check something relevant to what they were talking about, like to see if a scout saw the crucial tech building or not, Tasteless could just temporarily take control and check it and then set it back to korean observer. Then they really have only worry about showing the different tabs like apm and production which wouldn't be that difficult.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote the following nonsense:+ Show Spoiler +
I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
Yea you might regret that statement later in your TL life when you know what you just really said. Anyways...
I hope to see them use the production tab more, I know I talked to Artosis about it. It is the most useful tab really out of all of them. APM is cool to switch to here or there to take care of peoples obsession with APM. Income is great for showing how ahead/behind someone is.
actually im pretty ok with the obsing so far. im sure he tries to improve his using of tabs and keeping track of everything. remember that he just had to talk about the screen the korean observer shows in broodwar.
more background information about the players would be nice though...but i think that will come over time when the second tourney is starting
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
I was about to say the same thing. If they buckle down and start taking it seriously instead of a 'goof off and get paid' I think they will be extremely good casters. Learn about the players before the match, learn about all the different races and matchups, at least enough to understand the current strats being used. You're proffesional casters now, a position many would kill for, so don't blow it by taking it for granted.
To people complaining about the quality of information, keep in mind that this is one of the first big tournaments since release. Some people didn't get interested in Starcraft during that beta, and some people are tuning in and have never played Starcraft before. They're trying to appeal to those kinds of people. His casting is no different than when he casted Starcraft 1, always pointing out small details that a skilled player might overlook, but that's necessary to understand the game. For example, explaining how the cliff mechanics work, and other stuff that most of you already know but newer people watching might not.
TorcH covered what a lot of people said especially fpointing out a lot of key buildings and upgrades. Maybe a triple commentary would be a nice attempt to improve the english VoDs. I do enjoy Tasteless and Artosis's commentary and I find no problem with their cutesy personal comments with one another.
I also believe they give bios for the players that they can, but it's pretty hard to talk about a no-name. They've mentioned a lot that xy and z are good players especially if they were good at another game and Artosis always talks about how he "sees this guy in ladder" or how "he is so good". If you guys are talking about the player's personal bios, then I think that's hard to come by with the language barrier.
The camera will get better over time. Even Day[9] was bad at the very beginning of his daily's.
They do need to research more about the races, so they can explain why players make the moves they do, but this game is too young to know too much. They should probably try to get a hold of the GOM replays and study them so they can give better player bios later on.
Overall it's been solid commentary for how young and underdeveloped Starcraft II has been so far.
I like the faster camera movement it feels more natural and its what im used to. But i'll agree that he shouldnt zoom in as much.
Also showing APM at the beginning of the game is pretty useless since the players wont really have anything to do but spam hotkeys. Later on in the game it would be interesting to see though.
How come Tasteless can say 50 times a cast that hes new to the obs UI and that hes trying to learn it and that soon he will be better at it and yet there are people who create threads complaining about how hes not using the UI correctly etc? He also mentions that if you ahve feedback go to the Gomtv forums and post it. How much attention would someone have to pay to not hear Tasteless say both of those things over and over?
Me personally im in 7th heaven at being able to tune in to Artosis and Tasteless casting from Korea for free. I dont know how much deeper Artosis explanations can get at this point in the games life cycle. I cant think of one time that not being able to see the unit counting station has ruined my GSL experience.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
This is good advice.
I haven't got the chance to watch their casting of GOM (link anyone lol =p?), but your complaints are the OPPOSITE of what I complained when I watched HD/Husky cast back in beta. They'd spend so much time just afking on the army that you'd miss tech/macro, unless they had the production tab open. I much prefer the quick/ADD-ness of going all over the map to show you EVERYTHING, perhaps in part because I do indeed have ADD :D and perhaps in other part because as a mid-diamond level player I can easily keep up with the jerkyness and am in fact used to it (not saying OP is below this, just explaining why I prefer it). I like to SEE everything that's going on, rather than just watch someone's army idle for a while. That said, if there's a battle going on yeah stick to it so we can watch some fancy micro of course =]
One thing I forgot is there 100% be an observer besides the casters like how GOM did it in BW. It's 100x easier with it being built in and they can break cam anytime they need.
With this much $ on the line I'm surprised they don't have a dedicated English Observer.
On September 10 2010 07:35 iCCup.Diamond wrote: I hope to see them use the production tab more, I know I talked to Artosis about it. It is the most useful tab really out of all of them. APM is cool to switch to here or there to take care of peoples obsession with APM. Income is great for showing how ahead/behind someone is.
Production ftw.
I agree, they should have production tab open for the most time and switch to income and apm every 2 minutes or so or if a player grabs a new expo. Especially when a zerg is involved the production tab is so useful to see when he switches from drone to fighting unit production.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
This is good advice.
I haven't got the chance to watch their casting of GOM (link anyone lol =p?), but your complaints are the OPPOSITE of what I complained when I watched HD/Husky cast back in beta. They'd spend so much time just afking on the army that you'd miss tech/macro, unless they had the production tab open. I much prefer the quick/ADD-ness of going all over the map to show you EVERYTHING, perhaps in part because I do indeed have ADD :D and perhaps in other part because as a mid-diamond level player I can easily keep up with the jerkyness and am in fact used to it (not saying OP is below this, just explaining why I prefer it). I like to SEE everything that's going on, rather than just watch someone's army idle for a while. That said, if there's a battle going on yeah stick to it so we can watch some fancy micro of course =]
You have ADD and dont even know wtf it is? lol. yea right, i think you meant ADHD and not ADHD-1(old ADD)
If you have ADD you aint all over the place, you are in one place and struggle just to move away almost.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
I feel the opposite way, I absolutely cannot listen to HD/Husky cast for more than 30 seconds anymore and their game knowledge seems even less than tastosis. Artosis seems to know a lot more than tasteless and I like their jokey demenor. However I agree with the obsing, they need their own dedicated observer that speaks english.
On September 10 2010 06:43 godzillathrilla wrote: I don't know if anyone can get this to Tasteless, but if he sees it and doesn't take any criticism too badly I think it could really help. I'll post this on the Gom forums as well, but the topics tend to get buried there fast as few people respond.
From watching the Korean stream, I've noticed that their mouse and keyboard scroll sensitivity is quite a bit slower than yours. This helps reduce camera "jerkiness" if you're scrolling around using that method, and you're less likely to slip off someone's base or lose track of a big battle.
Also, they like to show off the players' APM at the start of the game, just as an interesting tidbit to the spectators. You can do this by pressing M, although its certainly not imperative. Your other knowledge of the ingame observer options is pretty good--you don't need to overdo these, although try to learn the hotkeys.
Don't zoom in too too much, as it can be a distraction from the whole scope of the game--and possibly prevent the spectator from enjoying a larger battle. I do appreciate your avid interest in map details and critters though Although that too can sometimes cause you to miss action or key information.
I generally feel like you're watching the game more like one would watch a replay--jumping around a bit too quickly to check out everything at once. While this is great for learning everything that's going on in the game, it makes spectating a bit harder; we're used to a slow camera without too much excessive movement. Move your mouse cursor slowly as well, or else it serves as a distraction to the spectator.
Overall I feel you're doing an excellent job for just starting. But one key thing is missing--that old Tasteless excitement. Your old energy for intense movements is somewhat muted because you have to know exactly how to follow the action, and your attention is divided. I don't really know how to solve this directly, without giving up and going to the Korean observer...but I'm sure in time you'll be skilled enough to pull off both at once, and we'll get to hear that old Tasteless fire once again. As it stands Artosis is doing a great job filling in during some key battles, and of course his casting analysis is nearly unparalleled.
Anyways, these are just some of my first thoughts, and I know you've been doing all of this to an extent, but it just needs some fine-tuning. Keep doing a great job!
I prefer the Production tab. APM is meaningless and I don't care for it whatsoever. But ofc opinions will differ from person to person. Everyone who's hating on Tasteless needs to chill out. He hasn't done anything in an entire year so hes just getting back into it. He also didn't use to have to control the camera and commentate at the same time, so he's gotta get used to it. If you think thats easy, its not. I love Tasteless because he just loves having fun while he commentates. He loves putting humor in his casting and he appeals to casual viewers very well.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
Huge, huge, HUGE point JWD. I was actually yelling at my screen yesterday because they had no idea IntoTheRainbow was playing in game 4 until the game was about to start, they got a look at his face and went "OH HEY THAT'S RAINBOW!" Whenever they were talking about the day's lineup they'd always just skip over the names as if he was some random.
I was deliberately waiting around for the fourth game because it was IntoTheRainbow. It took me one TL news post to know he was playing yesterday. The casters, whose job it is to hype up and comment on the games, had no idea?
Tasteless is doing amazing IMO. The only thing he needs to work on is knowing all the replay viewing functions. I was actually kind of surprised he didn't know them as most people learn it just from reviewing their own replays or watching others.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
This is good advice.
I haven't got the chance to watch their casting of GOM (link anyone lol =p?), but your complaints are the OPPOSITE of what I complained when I watched HD/Husky cast back in beta. They'd spend so much time just afking on the army that you'd miss tech/macro, unless they had the production tab open. I much prefer the quick/ADD-ness of going all over the map to show you EVERYTHING, perhaps in part because I do indeed have ADD :D and perhaps in other part because as a mid-diamond level player I can easily keep up with the jerkyness and am in fact used to it (not saying OP is below this, just explaining why I prefer it). I like to SEE everything that's going on, rather than just watch someone's army idle for a while. That said, if there's a battle going on yeah stick to it so we can watch some fancy micro of course =]
You have ADD and dont even know wtf it is? lol. yea right, i think you meant ADHD and not ADHD-1(old ADD)
If you have ADD you aint all over the place, you are in one place and struggle just to move away almost.
There are like 6-8 types of ADD, http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=zVfcu1j_A7E (broke link to avoid img) if you're interested. I don't want to derail too much but I'll just say ADD people tend to enjoy/do much better at things that require their full attention (high APM games like rts, driving, etc).
I think Artosis is spot on, I've been thoroughly impressed with his ability and sense of humour.
Tasteless seems to have lost his footing since he crushed back in 07/08 or whatever it was. I think he could use some direction, but I still think he's got the knowledge and talent. He's just playing the wrong tune.
That said, the Camera is alittle rough, and I'm sick of seeing the zoom in :D
This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down.
Tasteless and Artosis are still too much rooted in BW, and we are watching SC2, I believe. It seems it will take them some time to adapt. That's fine, although I would have appreciated if they have done this work in advance. Objectively speaking, many average SC2 players could commentate better than them as of now, simply because their thinking is not as BW influenced.
Note that not every BW influence is good for your SC2 understanding; some of it is blinding you from what SC2 actually is.
On September 10 2010 07:00 Vz0 wrote: He often contradicts himself. Facepalmed when he kept saying how great artosis was, how smart he was, and how he is not as good in long term games. Then before the game starts he says the long term macro game wll favour artosis... sigh..
I heard those comments, and I think he said both times that Artosis has a strong late game - so either you misheard first time, or possibly he misworded it, but I'm sure that's what he meant.
I must admit I can't wait for HDH2, because months later, with so many different casters and great tourneys I've seen, the casting of HDH1 still remains the top in overall qualities. It will be a breath of fresh air to have those two commentating exciting games together again. The mistakes I've heard people criticizing them about, well, we've now seen T&A repeat those mistakes even more. Eg: missing drops, focusing on map objects, shouting ridiculous stuff, incorrect/failed analysis etc.
To clarify, I'm not even a fan of Husky's or HD's youtube channels, and usually their casting is off for me, when they do it individually or with another co-caster -- but they make a perfect tandem.
On September 10 2010 07:58 d00gwad wrote: I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down.
People are missing the most obvious thing when trying to give Tasteless and Artosis the benefit of the doubt. They know what both of them are capable of and I do so as well. The thing is that people just coming into SC2 have NO IDEA who they are. I'll give a perfect example, I got a friend of mine into watching SC2 through iCCup and Day9 and he was pleased, enjoyed watching the game a lot even though he rarely plays. I told him about the upcoming GSL and how Tasteless use to cast for BW from Korea and how the hype was amazing. Fast forward to the first cast and he tells me how he felt it was freaking amateur hour. They want me to pay $20 when the casters don't even know or have familiarity with the tools while I can get Day9 or iCCup for free?
Part of peoples displeasure is from what seems like the obvious lack of preparation by Tasteless. The hype and huge expectations did not materialize in the cast. It truly did seem like Tasteless had never tried to Obs or cast a single game in SC2 on that first night. I love Tasteless and his style but I don't know if it was because he felt he was assured the job that he didn't bother to prepare. This is on the job training at it's finest.
I think the majority of the people complaining or offering criticism in this thread are genuine. They all want Tasteless and Artosis to succeed and just feel let down that they just seem to have not taken this opportunity seriously from the get go.
On September 10 2010 07:58 d00gwad wrote: I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down.
Husky has more knowledge than tasteless? Wut?
Anyone who thinks Husky > Tasteless in terms of knowledge about the game is mistaken on a very large scale.
Tasteless + Artosis = the best SC2 casting team (Day9 doesn't need a team). It's that simple. Once Tasteless gets used to the UI and starts keeping the production tab up more I'm pretty confident they won't miss any tech. Even mentioning HD and Husky in this thread is pretty ridiculous. They don't even play the game.
On September 10 2010 07:58 d00gwad wrote: I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down.
Husky has more knowledge than tasteless? Wut?
In terms of SC2 knowledge, I would put Husky on par with Tasteless.
Stasis was a BW spell, Tasteless. And the mic comes out the left side.
I love the commentary of their casts. I find the banter hilarious and think Artosis adds a lot of insight to the commentary. This has been touched on before, but what they show on the screen needs a lot of work. I could watch korean commentaries and every important building or upgrade would be pointed out, clicked on, and then they would use the mouse to make sure your eye was drawn to the specific thing (such as circling the upgrade number when clicking on a marine). This helps sooo much when observing a game and understanding exactly what is going on.
On September 10 2010 07:58 d00gwad wrote: I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down.
Husky has more knowledge than tasteless? Wut?
In terms of SC2 knowledge, I would put Husky on par with Tasteless.
Stasis was a BW spell, Tasteless. And the mic comes out the left side.
; )
Because he misspoke and called forcefield "stasis," he is on par with husky?
Tasteless has been playing sc2 longer and more competitively than husky. He also is surrounded by great players. Husky barfs a lot.
On September 10 2010 07:58 d00gwad wrote: I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down.
Husky has more knowledge than tasteless? Wut?
In terms of SC2 knowledge, I would put Husky on par with Tasteless.
Stasis was a BW spell, Tasteless. And the mic comes out the left side.
; )
Theres no way you seriously believe that based on a misspeak of calling FF by Stasis... What does that in any way whatsoever have anything to do with knowledge about the game?
The point is Tasteless is on freaking GOMTV casting StarCraft 2 in Korea - a job many would kill for - and he doesn't even know how to use the StarCraft 2 UI. He genuinely gives the impression that GOM just called him an hour before going live and dragging him into the studio. That's how obvious his lack of preparation is; it's like he spends no time with StarCraft 2 at all outside of the GOMTV studio.
Tasteless keeps telling us he'll get better and learn the UI hotkeys soon, when the point is he should have learned them by heart before ever showing his face on TV.
I must be the only one who find the small stories about players, the humor and general casting very entertaining. I feel they make a show off it, good casting, good jokes, and overall very entertaining!
I do agree tho that a bit of background check into the players playing wouldn't go amiss
On September 10 2010 07:58 d00gwad wrote: I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down.
Husky has more knowledge than tasteless? Wut?
In terms of SC2 knowledge, I would put Husky on par with Tasteless.
Stasis was a BW spell, Tasteless. And the mic comes out the left side.
; )
Artosis keeps saying dragoons about stalkers. I guess he's behind Husky aswell in knowledge.
I wonder why they are not following the korean observer. Hes doing a great job and you can easily follow him in sc2 and take his vision. And if the game gets boring maybe just switch back and show some panda bear guy :p
On September 10 2010 08:14 Sqq wrote: I must be the only one who find the small stories about players, the humor and general casting very entertaining. I feel they make a show off it, good casting, good jokes, and overall very entertaining!
On the contrary, I think the vast majority agrees with you, it's just that it could have been even better. It's still really really good though overall!
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it
People in this community love to hate on HD and Husky because it's the popular thing to do. To be honest listening to Tasteless I don't get the impression that he knows much more about the game than either HD or Husky. Don't get me wrong, I like all three casters but people who weren't popular BW players/casters have to work a lot harder to get approval on TL.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
This is good advice.
I haven't got the chance to watch their casting of GOM (link anyone lol =p?), but your complaints are the OPPOSITE of what I complained when I watched HD/Husky cast back in beta. They'd spend so much time just afking on the army that you'd miss tech/macro, unless they had the production tab open. I much prefer the quick/ADD-ness of going all over the map to show you EVERYTHING, perhaps in part because I do indeed have ADD :D and perhaps in other part because as a mid-diamond level player I can easily keep up with the jerkyness and am in fact used to it (not saying OP is below this, just explaining why I prefer it). I like to SEE everything that's going on, rather than just watch someone's army idle for a while. That said, if there's a battle going on yeah stick to it so we can watch some fancy micro of course =]
You have ADD and dont even know wtf it is? lol. yea right, i think you meant ADHD and not ADHD-1(old ADD)
If you have ADD you aint all over the place, you are in one place and struggle just to move away almost.
There are like 6-8 types of ADD, http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=zVfcu1j_A7E (broke link to avoid img) if you're interested. I don't want to derail too much but I'll just say ADD people tend to enjoy/do much better at things that require their full attention (high APM games like rts, driving, etc).
"ADHD-PI is different from the other subtypes of ADHD in that it is characterized primarily by inattention, easy distractibility, disorganization, procrastination, forgetfulness, and lethargy (fatigue), but with less or none of the symptoms of hyperactivity or impulsiveness typical of the other ADHD subtypes."
But yes, you are right, this thread is not about ADD/ADHD.
My thoughts after watching 5 days worth of casting:
Yesterday when Torch casted it felt really refreshing. For Torch's first time to cast, he did an excellent job IMO. I felt torch was spot on with adding game depth and giving insight to the strategy. He paid much attention to what was being built simply with the usage of in game commands. This allowed tasteless to have something to chat with and created great casts.
Most of the things have been said in this thread and I agree with them spot on. So I would like to add things that have not been said.
Tasteless and Artosis are a great team but always cut each other off sometimes, the things they focus on sometimes are completely irrelevant from what each other says. I love the jokes and inside things as It allows viewers to connect to them, but eventually it will create a mistiming on important game decisions. Hopefully they can balance the humor and insight nicer in the future.
I feel if their mindset was "we're casting to people all over the world" they would improve greatly.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it
People in this community love to hate on HD and Husky because it's the popular thing to do. To be honest listening to Tasteless I don't get the impression that he knows much more about the game than either HD or Husky. Don't get me wrong, I like all three casters but people who weren't popular BW players/casters have to work a lot harder to get approval on TL.
If you think thats the reason people dont like HD and Husky you are very wrong. People don't like them because they are bad.. Its that simple! People who can't see the bad however love them! These are the same people who are going 4 gate all-in every game in every mu or 1 base Terran the entire game. They are also same people who can't think more than 2 seconds into the future of the game that they are playing. Also in this case "bad = lack of knowledge." To be fair HD and Husky are pretty decent casters and have done a good deal for the community. They are better casters than I would be so I have no room to be pessimistic on that part but when I hear them say things that are far from true thats when I feel no remorse when saying that they have a lack of knowledge about the game.
I don't think a commentator should simultaneously be a journalist/reporter. If GOM isn't providing them with information on its players then that's GOM's shortcoming, not the commentators'. Players would need to fill out surveys and do pre-game interviews. It isn't the commentators' job to arrange those things. I'd imagine Tasteless and Artosis are doing everything GOM asks them to do and going beyond that would be taking the director's or someone else's job.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
For entertainment value, Artosis and Tasteless are way better than everyone else for me. I don't even like when commentators get all excited (unless I'm the one playing). I looove the laid back approach, cracking jokes and making funny observations. It's perfect for me.
Camera control can definitely be improved. Ideally, someone else would be controlling the camera. Turning down scroll speeds and clicking the minimap more accurately (so that he doesn't have to scroll at all after he clicks) would definitely help.
Tasteless is an outstanding play-by-play caster that's very entertaining during slow times. He appeals to a larger audience than Day9 as well. IMO he's more entertaining and a better caster than HD/Husky and he also knows slightly more about the game.
I really think his game knowledge and observer skills are lacking compared to what he had in SC:BW. Hopefully that will change and hopefully he'll figure out the obs controls as well, but he may not have known ahead of time that he would be controlling the camera.
Artosis should be there to provide analysis and player bios. He's doing a decent job now but will obviously improve once there's actually a scene and builds become more apparent. It's hard to expect him to know very much when the game is so new.
This also contributes to their constant bringing up SC:BW information, because that's all the information they have. They definitely could have come to the GSL a bit more prepared, but it's hard to blame them for missing a few things when the game is so new.
The other casters have their faults too and in general I think Tasteless/Artosis are the best team by far.
I can't find tasteless videos anywhere to give an opinion on this. I tried GomTV but it looks like you have to pay to watch? And youtube search isn't helpful either. Can someone point me in the right direction?
The most annoying thing is when a battle is about to happen and tasteless switches the view to somewhere else. By the time he switches back the battle is halfway done. This happens a lot and is really bad.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it
People in this community love to hate on HD and Husky because it's the popular thing to do. To be honest listening to Tasteless I don't get the impression that he knows much more about the game than either HD or Husky. Don't get me wrong, I like all three casters but people who weren't popular BW players/casters have to work a lot harder to get approval on TL.
If you think thats the reason people dont like HD and Husky you are very wrong. People don't like them because they are bad.. Its that simple! People who can't see the bad however love them! These are the same people who are going 4 gate all-in every game in every mu or 1 base Terran the entire game. They are also same people who can't think more than 2 seconds into the future of the game that they are playing. Also in this case "bad = lack of knowledge." To be fair HD and Husky are pretty decent casters and have done a good deal for the community.
Yeah we get it, they're not pro players, but I think the amount of criticism they get on here is very disproportionate to how good they actually are. If HD/Husky makes a bad call or misses something they get held to account for it and it's all over the forums, while if Day9 or Tasteless do the exact same thing no one bats an eyelid or people make excuses for them.
I'm not saying they're bastions of SC knowledge but they certainly do get held to account a lot more than some other casters who are more popular with the TL crowd.
On September 10 2010 08:36 lololol wrote: The most annoying thing is when a battle is about to happen and tasteless switches the view to somewhere else. By the time he switches back the battle is halfway done. This happens a lot and is really bad.
Yeah thats no good when you are the camera >_< He does this naturally because its good to do that when analyzing replays. Just a bad habit he needs to drop when casting.
I feel like Tastleless and Artosis are really missing the point of casting, especially such an important event.
The point of casting is to provide indepth and accurate play-by-plays of the game, Day9 and Apollo did that wonderfully at IEM. Tastless and Artosis are simply NOT performing.
EXAMPLE
I can't remember the name of the players, which is embaressing. But the Terran that beat Protoss with a Battlecruiser timing attack. Note, this sort of example has been happening regularly. Tasteless and Artosis didn't say a single word about an Armory, or a battlecruiser being made. They paid no attention to how the game was progressing or even what the players were actually DOING. The game was LITERALLY "Stuff is happening, these players are good, neat stuff with that zealot, OH MY GOD BATTLECRUISER" and the game was over.
The fact is, viewers aren't at all getting a clear idea of what is going on in the game. Tastless and Artosis can be as famous and reputable as they want, and I love listening to them, but they are performing very, very poorly as casters.
Artosis and tasteless both fill the roll of the color commentator in baseball. The show needs to be a guy there who is serious and does the play by play. I think this why people enjoyed torch so much, he tried to give the play by play. I would propose a third caster that would control the camera so nothing important got missed. This new caster wouldn't get involved in jokes, but would give a sort of play by play.This would let those two do their thing and still have some serious commentating involved.
Edit: I almost never know where players are on upgrades as well. If one player is 0-0 and the other is 3-1 that makes a huge difference. They tend to totally neglect this. I never know what spell type upgrades are being researched either, unless its like a colossus or a banshee.
I've watched a ton of Tasteless/Superdanielman casts, not to mention 30+ years of traditional sportscasts. I can say that he does a really good job under the circumstances. Keep in mind that for much of the GOM casts, he had no control of the in-game camera, and had to work off of 2 screens and simultaneously listen for directional cues in another language. If you know anything about brain function, this sort of multi-lingual multi-tasking is enormously difficult. He and SDM were fantastic.
Sure it was unpolished, with some corny humor, but substantively well done. They are enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and efficient. But these are young guys who are just evolving out of gamer nerdhood. They deserve a ton of respect and support, especially at the early stage of what promises to be a long and prosperous career.
My tip for them is simply to bone up on English; more efficient ways to communicate game action without resorting to SC nerd lingo (e.g. "rax", "3 gate robo", etc.) The extra time it takes to say the full name of the units and strategies allows you to line up the next thought seemlessly.
If I were them, I'd consult with a basketball or hockey radio commentator to learn some tricks on how to keep up with a fast paced, action packed game.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
On September 10 2010 08:45 Pyre wrote: Artosis and tasteless both fill the roll of the color commentator in baseball. The show needs to be a guy there who is serious and does the play by play. I think this why people enjoyed torch so much, he tried to give the play by play. I would propose a third caster that would control the camera so nothing important got missed. This new caster wouldn't get involved in jokes, but would give a sort of play by play.This would let those two do their thing and still have some serious commentating involved.
Reminds of how casting is done in Spanish football (soccer) casts. There's 2 main casters, 1 does the more laid back talk, another one adds excitement when there's a possible scoring opportunity, but there's also a 3rd one who's actually down at field and is there to give his commentary from the point of view there (sort of how a 3rd caster for SC would do i guess).
Am I the only one who thought it was kinda a big thing that Artosis came out of that match and flat out said as a caster, that his opponent was bad, his play was flat out stupid, and he should have won?
Nothing world ending, but Id have to imagine there would be some controversy with him using that professional platform to BM his opponent?
I honestly don't believe Tastleless is good enough as a player or knowledgeable enough as a caster to do his job as a commentator/observer. Many of the things he says are just flat out wrong and I get the impression that he is just another average random diamond player. (And he is. Just 750 points with an unspectacular record).
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
:o The game has been out only a few months and new people are watching every day... These new viewers don't understand the concept of building a CC in any other spot than at the expansion. When Tasteless talked about that, I actually thought "it's really great that he fits in little things like that so that people who are totally new to SC can start to learn these things"
Catering to Platinum and higher players would certainly be bad for the cast. It'd be horrible if they filtered their game knowledge by asking "do most Diamond players already know this?"
The thing is, how are you going to judge a commentator's game knowledge if you are not more knowledgeable? If they tell you something you don't already know, then you have no idea if they're correct or not. If they tell you something you already know and agree with, so you know that they're giving out accurate information, you fault them for saying something that "everyone already knows."
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I don't think a commentator should simultaneously be a journalist/reporter. If GOM isn't providing them with information on its players then that's GOM's shortcoming, not the commentators'. Players would need to fill out surveys and do pre-game interviews. It isn't the commentators' job to arrange those things. I'd imagine Tasteless and Artosis are doing everything GOM asks them to do and going beyond that would be taking the director's or someone else's job.
I totally agree and would have still said so if Tyler didn't. All the random stats we see in BW, I know we're not specifically talking about these but, probably aren't compiled by the commentators. I'm sure there's some data recording team or something in OGN/MBC. We have to give them some credit too, they at least know things about the players they know like IntoTheRainbow for example giving background on his early reaver godliness.
I think GOM could and should definitely support the english casting half more.
On September 10 2010 07:58 d00gwad wrote: I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down.
Husky has more knowledge than tasteless? Wut?
In terms of SC2 knowledge, I would put Husky on par with Tasteless.
Stasis was a BW spell, Tasteless. And the mic comes out the left side.
; )
Artosis keeps saying dragoons about stalkers. I guess he's behind Husky aswell in knowledge.
Quoting this because I misspoke. Meant to say HD. Not putting HD ahead of Artosis by any stretch, but tasteless has yet to impress me with his analysis. (But again, he's the sauce, not the analysis dude, so what's it matter?)
edit: And I'll go ahead and add that I rarely watch HD and Husky. But I feel like HD speaks with much greater accuracy than Tasteless does these days.
I personally have no idea why HD+Husky are so popular, for me they point out the obvious far too much are often wrong in their strategical analysis and act way too over-professional and boring, and Husky is the better caster out of the 2 not HD. Tasteless is the best caster out there for making anything exciting and Artosis has more insight and game knowledge than anybody else that casts, most of you guys have NO IDEA what you're talking about, and too many of you suffer from fanboyism.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
Rofl, who are you to say that to nony, HD doesn't know more than tasteless at all, and he's about 10 times more boring, predictable and corny. Seriously everyone new to the starcraft scene seems to admire HD+Husky like they're gods, they're mediocre and trying too hard. IMO.
Well, I don't know Artosis is a little biased at times but he is undeniably knowledgeable. I would certainly put Artosis and Day close together, wouldn't be able to judge accurately who is better.
On September 10 2010 08:52 my0s wrote: Am I the only one who thought it was kinda a big thing that Artosis came out of that match and flat out said as a caster, that his opponent was bad, his play was flat out stupid, and he should have won?
Nothing world ending, but Id have to imagine there would be some controversy with him using that professional platform to BM his opponent?
Gotta appreciate his honesty. I think he did an amazing job that day, casting the first and the fourth match, even though he had to play in the third match. Very few of the players in this tournament, or in the world, could pull this off, and still play well and win a game. It was a stunt of his own.
On September 10 2010 08:42 Zerokaiser wrote: The point of casting is to provide indepth and accurate play-by-plays of the game, Day9 and Apollo did that wonderfully at IEM. Tastless and Artosis are simply NOT performing.
EXAMPLE
I can't remember the name of the players, which is embaressing. But the Terran that beat Protoss with a Battlecruiser timing attack. Note, this sort of example has been happening regularly. Tasteless and Artosis didn't say a single word about an Armory, or a battlecruiser being made. They paid no attention to how the game was progressing or even what the players were actually DOING. The game was LITERALLY "Stuff is happening, these players are good, neat stuff with that zealot, OH MY GOD BATTLECRUISER" and the game was over.
The fact is, viewers aren't at all getting a clear idea of what is going on in the game. Tastless and Artosis can be as famous and reputable as they want, and I love listening to them, but they are performing very, very poorly as casters.
I am not entirely sure about this matter. Knowing everything beforehand takes a lot of suprise / excitement out of the game (for me).
Sometimes I want to be suprised by something huge like a mothership / battlecruiser.
I think it's funny that you mention day9 & apollo @IEM. Remember the Tarson (?) and IdrA game where IdrA used the muta magic box trick. The whole fucking game day9/apollo (dont remember who) spent the time to say "yeah - I talked to IdrA he has this technique". 1min later "yeah more Thors are produced, but remember, I talked to me and said he doesnt fear them". When it actually happened - I wasnt excited. I'd prefer something like "oh - Mutas vs Thors? Is he sure about it?" Then the confrontation happens - one caster is all excited "OMG DID YOU SEE THAT?" and then they could say "Yeah he mentioned something similiar to me".
I like to be suprised here & there - so I dont care if I dont always get told a battlecruiser is on its way. But now of course, the BC novelty has worn off - nothing to be surprised about in TvP. Now I want to be informed about them.
Overall I like the casting of Tasteless & Artosis. Their voices are pleasant - even when getting louder / excited. That's the one thing other casters turn me off
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
Woah woah woah. If you are gonna say tasteless is noobish compaired to day9, like hes saying shit like it's a protip: have you seen day9 recently? No offense to day9, I love the guy, but for me it is now unwatchable. It's basically a noobcast and experienced players will barely get anything out of it. Both tasteless and day9 appeal to all audiences and are not elitest assholes who talk about only the most obscure and fine details in starcraft like everyone should know every term and trick already.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it
People in this community love to hate on HD and Husky because it's the popular thing to do. To be honest listening to Tasteless I don't get the impression that he knows much more about the game than either HD or Husky. Don't get me wrong, I like all three casters but people who weren't popular BW players/casters have to work a lot harder to get approval on TL.
If you think thats the reason people dont like HD and Husky you are very wrong. People don't like them because they are bad.. Its that simple! People who can't see the bad however love them! These are the same people who are going 4 gate all-in every game in every mu or 1 base Terran the entire game. They are also same people who can't think more than 2 seconds into the future of the game that they are playing. Also in this case "bad = lack of knowledge." To be fair HD and Husky are pretty decent casters and have done a good deal for the community. They are better casters than I would be so I have no room to be pessimistic on that part but when I hear them say things that are far from true thats when I feel no remorse when saying that they have a lack of knowledge about the game.
I was somewhat disappointed when I tuned in for GOMtv's English casts and found Tasteless and Artosis rather unprepared and somewhat flustered throughout the entire cast. Their cast really lacks the fluidity and smoothness of a Day9+Anyone cast or the HD/Husky combo, but I don't really fault them for it right now.
Of course, I think the pair could be more professional and could really work on having more information about specific players and teams, but you have to realize that they have to wait on someone else for their timings. If the Korean casters are taking longer than expected, they have to come up with something to talk about on the fly and continue on doing that until they get the notification from the camera crew that the game is starting (which seems to always come less than 10 seconds from the start of the match). This is why they seem choppy and caught off guard between games.
It seems like they have room to improve, but I think they deserve a some leeway seeing as how they are, for the time being, an accessory to the primary Korean cast and not the main event. After the first tournament, I believe that they will smooth out their casting ability.
On September 10 2010 06:43 godzillathrilla wrote: Don't zoom in too too much, as it can be a distraction from the whole scope of the game--and possibly prevent the spectator from enjoying a larger battle. I do appreciate your avid interest in map details and critters though Although that too can sometimes cause you to miss action or key information.
This is so hugely important. Observers are only used to seeing the game from 1 angle. In the PvP game from last night, Tasteless decided to zoom in while a zealot was attacking a mineral line, in the hope that it would help us to see the action better. On the contrary, even though the the zealot and probes were bigger on the screen, I had a tremendously difficult time telling which probes he had hit and how effective the harassment was being, simply because I'm not used to seeing things at that angle.
Likewise in the Dimaga vs. Kiwikaki game, on Scrap Station, there was one point where TheGunRun decided to rotate the camera to see Kiwi's natural and Dimaga's nydus forces from a different view. Even though it was understandable why he'd rotate the camera that way during the battle, it still made it much harder to observe and figure out wtf was going on, just because everything looked so strange. (To be fair to TheGunRun, he's gotten a TON better about not doing this while observing; his camera control has improved so tremendously since his start that it gives me a lot of hope for Tasteless, who is already decent.)
Anyways, long story short, zooming or changing the camera angle doesn't help people see things more clearly, and in fact makes things worse by screwing up people's orientation.
I am actually enjoying their casting more a few days in. They are getting better though even now Tasteless is struggling to know the hotkeys as an observer even after a number of days. If I was to be doing a cast as my job I would take the time to learn what keys did what before the tournament even started I am sure he can get some tips from his brother.
I also have to disagree with nony/tyler they are preaching to the choir pointing out building a CC before moving. If anyone doesnt know this then why would they be paying to watch a GOMTV VOD or watching it live at a time most are at work (EU) or in bed (US). This is done in bronze let alone plat we know we can learn so much more from him than this.
The best games so far were with Torch when he pointed out key tech changes going on to Tasteless. Anyway I am enjoying it and thats what is important and it is still better than the old GOMTV casts with superdanielman and they had no control over what they could show us.
Day9 has it easy because he knows all of the players. He's watch almost all of Dimaga, Slush, Morrow, etc. play. They do the same strategies over and over (with some new ones here and there) and he knows how these guys play.
Tasteless is thrown into the biggest tournament ever for SC2 with a bunch of new players and cannot even talk to most of them because of the language barrier. When something odd comes up, he cannot go "Oh, I've seen Dimaga do this before! I analyzed why he gets gas here. It's an early baneling into..." like Day9 does because he, just like everybody else, has absolutely no clue. Cut him some slack until the later stages in the tournament where we actually know the players.
HDH is no better. After they kept telling me that high templar are worthless, stalkers beat marauders, and a bunch of other just plain wrong things, I gave up on them.
Note: Using BW names is just sloppy though. I played BW, but come on, it's forcefield, and stalkers, and medivacs, etc.
I LOVE these guys. They definitely have amazing banter and it is so much fun to watch and listen to. Aside from Day9, they are my favourites.
However, Tasteless really doesn't seem to be taking it seriously. I'm sure he could put a little more effort into know the generic hot keys and perhaps observe how the Korean commentators do things because their camera control and ability to catch every little detail of the game is great. Tasteless really needs to work on catching everything that's happening. So yes, if I am paying money to watch this, and Tastosis is getting paid, they should put in a little bit more effort to be prepared by knowing more controls and being more professional when it comes to being our eyes into the games.
I also read earlier about someone wanting some "pre info" on the players themselves, I think this is a great idea. It really lets us know more about who we are watching and perhaps lets us cheer for some new people!
Aside from those little bits of criticism, I think they are doing a great job. I like the way they analyse the games. I know they tend to miss a few things that even I seem to catch. Such as how many units were lost or when there are DTs already built and in the enemy base before noticed haha =P, but I'm just sitting in my chair zonked out watching the screen, they obviously have more to do at once.
Anywho, that's my bit. I feel that by the next GSL, they will have worked out all these little problems, take it more serious and get phenomenally better (although it's sad that it couldn't happen sooner). I still enjoy watching them. Being in the UK, all the games start at 10am my time. So perfect =)
I think you casters are AWESOME! You guys are doing such a great job. I'm learning a lot of new things, and sometimes you guys can be straight up hilarious. Keep up the good work!
Just wanted to make that clear before I offer these suggestions. Some phrases are becoming a little trite. You may want to use them a little less. For example: "And it looks like [...]" "And he's actually going to go ahead and [...]" "Nice forcefield!"
Consider saying "boosts warpgates," not "charges warpgates." Consider saying "Colossi," not "Colossuses." (Yes, I realize both are correct, but "Colossi" has garnered more favor among casters and contain one less syllable.)
One last thing... please speak nicely of the players. =] DO point out their problems, but please do so with the utmost tact!
I'm not sure why people want them to be more professional, to me their charm is that they have that off beat style. They're the "Wayne's World" of commentary.
It seems to me they recognise the fundamental absurdity that we're gathered around PC screens watching a stream of a computer game being played for money. It's about as nerdy a thing as you can do, and as such it should be approached with a certain nerdy style. Tasteless and Artosis capture that geek aesthetic perfectly I think.
Honestly I think the worst thing they could do is get more professional, in fact other casters could probably stand to take a leaf out of their book and relax a little and not be in super serious mode.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
I think it says alot about your game knowelege if you think HD is more knowlegeable of the game than husky. I defiently think tasteless has decent knowelege of the game tho.
My only big issue so far is the lack of production tab. It's so much more useful than unit counter, and can relay a ton of information despite the low resolution
There's been some other off comments with wrong information which were annoying. Like Tasteless saying not to build more than 16 workers for your mineral patches, and blinking to islands. Hopefully those'll stop happening as he becomes more familiar with the game
oh yeah and cut down on the imbalance talk. I know it's artosis, but it's really offputting during a 'tourney cast
On September 10 2010 09:35 Shakes wrote: I'm not sure why people want them to be more professional, to me their charm is that they have that off beat style. They're the "Wayne's World" of commentary.
It seems to me they recognise the fundamental absurdity that we're gathered around PC screens watching a stream of a computer game being played for money. It's about as nerdy a thing as you can do, and as such it should be approached with a certain nerdy style. Tasteless and Artosis capture that geek aesthetic perfectly I think.
Honestly I think the worst thing they could do is get more professional, in fact other casters could probably stand to take a leaf out of their book and relax a little and not be in super serious mode.
Professionalism and Personality are two different things. People want more Professionalism in observing(aka knowing the Obs Tools in and out, viewing the important things) and casting(aka when to stop the jokes/anecdotes and concentrate on what's happening in the game). There have been very FEW people in this thread that want Tasteless or Artosis to change their style of casting(aka jokes and odd things in maps). It's just learning when to joke and when to be serious that will take awhile to balance and everyone understands that. I hope...
Wow how did this devolve into a caster vs caster thread so quickly? Why are people ragging on Tasteless for explaining things like building an Orbital Command before lifting it off to the expansion? It's not like he was wrong about it, he was just explaining it to the viewers that might not have seen it before. It's not like he presented it as some sort of revelation, he also explained other basic SC concepts like APM and scouting, it's all about making the broadcast as accessible as possible. Sort of like when an NFL broadcaster talks about why 3rd down is a passing down, everyone knows it, but it's a nice way to fill air time while you inform people who are watching casually.
I seriously would not underestimate Tasteless's knowledge of the game. The guy has years of BW experience, and appears to be at least pretty good at SC2 as well. He wouldn't have gotten this far without knowing what he's talking about. I find it surprising he's not familiar with the observing controls yet, which you should probably know after watching a couple replays, but he's already stated he's trying to get better with it, and his observing has improved quite a bit over these past few days.
As for "advice" I don't really have any. It seems a lot of the hiccups in the casting, such as calling out the wrong players names, not having much flow between games+interviews, and having to cut each other off as the game start are on Gom's end. It seems to me like the logistics of the tournament are completely centered around the Korean broadcast, which makes the English cast look artificially sloppy. I may be completely off base but it seems like there is a lack of communication going on as games often start while Artosis or Tasteless are in mid sentence. This has gotten better as the tournament has gone on, but it can still be jarring when one has to cut the other off because the countdown just began.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it
People in this community love to hate on HD and Husky because it's the popular thing to do. To be honest listening to Tasteless I don't get the impression that he knows much more about the game than either HD or Husky. Don't get me wrong, I like all three casters but people who weren't popular BW players/casters have to work a lot harder to get approval on TL.
If you think thats the reason people dont like HD and Husky you are very wrong. People don't like them because they are bad.. Its that simple! People who can't see the bad however love them! These are the same people who are going 4 gate all-in every game in every mu or 1 base Terran the entire game. They are also same people who can't think more than 2 seconds into the future of the game that they are playing. Also in this case "bad = lack of knowledge." To be fair HD and Husky are pretty decent casters and have done a good deal for the community. They are better casters than I would be so I have no room to be pessimistic on that part but when I hear them say things that are far from true thats when I feel no remorse when saying that they have a lack of knowledge about the game.
So you are saying tasteless is bad then? Check.
Kinda ad hominem to what the guy was saying dont you think? Also Husky always had the "approval of tl. Husky commentated bw for along time so he deserves the fans he has now. But some people just dont watch/like them. I for one to watch husky or hd since they lack knowelege of strategies
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
I had to respond to this. I would like you to watch Idra's round 1 matches in the ro64 and tell me what you just said again. It completely proves you wrong. Artosis was talking about, in game 1m the strategy the terran could employ. He didn't in game one, but guess what, he did in game 2. Artosis predicted the player would be using ghosts to harass in TvZ via dropship etc which is extremely uncommon. That indicates he had "done his homework", what you're saying they don't do.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
:o The game has been out only a few months and new people are watching every day... These new viewers don't understand the concept of building a CC in any other spot than at the expansion. When Tasteless talked about that, I actually thought "it's really great that he fits in little things like that so that people who are totally new to SC can start to learn these things"
Catering to Platinum and higher players would certainly be bad for the cast. It'd be horrible if they filtered their game knowledge by asking "do most Diamond players already know this?"
The thing is, how are you going to judge a commentator's game knowledge if you are not more knowledgeable? If they tell you something you don't already know, then you have no idea if they're correct or not. If they tell you something you already know and agree with, so you know that they're giving out accurate information, you fault them for saying something that "everyone already knows."
For me, I'm not a pro player, or even a decent player. But when Tasteless says something like "oh protoss vs protoss always comes down to an arms race of who can get colossus first", and then I watch the MLG finals, where 4 warpgate is the dominant strategy and we only saw colossus in a couple of games it just kind of sounds like he might not be aware of current trends. Correct me if I'm wrong cause I know 0 about Protoss.
One thing is for sure though, if HD Starcraft had come up with a statement like that, there would immediately be a dozen TL users bitching about how horrible his game knowledge is and how he is unfit to cast.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
:o The game has been out only a few months and new people are watching every day... These new viewers don't understand the concept of building a CC in any other spot than at the expansion. When Tasteless talked about that, I actually thought "it's really great that he fits in little things like that so that people who are totally new to SC can start to learn these things"
Catering to Platinum and higher players would certainly be bad for the cast. It'd be horrible if they filtered their game knowledge by asking "do most Diamond players already know this?"
The thing is, how are you going to judge a commentator's game knowledge if you are not more knowledgeable? If they tell you something you don't already know, then you have no idea if they're correct or not. If they tell you something you already know and agree with, so you know that they're giving out accurate information, you fault them for saying something that "everyone already knows."
For me, I'm not a pro player, or even a decent player. But when Tasteless says something like "oh protoss vs protoss always comes down to an arms race of who can get colossus first", and then I watch the MLG finals, where 4 warpgate is the dominant strategy and we only saw colossus in a couple of games it just kind of sounds like he might not be aware of current trends. Correct me if I'm wrong cause I know 0 about Protoss.
One thing is for sure though, if HD Starcraft had come up with a statement like that, there would immediately be a dozen TL users bitching about how horrible his game knowledge is and how he is unfit to cast.
Since you asked for it. Tasteless was right and you are wrong. PvP is largely a race to Colossi. The way the matchup tends to work on normal maps(ie not DO and KR) is that one person 3 gate robo's or 4gates to apply immediate pressure and try to end the game while one person defends and tries to tech to colossi. If you skimp too much on defense you get your front busted and often lose while trying to get up to the colossi.
Its a dynamic matchup that Tasteless actually described pretty accurately - especially since he was playing Protoss as a main race for awhile.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
I had to respond to this. I would like you to watch Idra's round 1 matches in the ro64 and tell me what you just said again. It completely proves you wrong. Artosis was talking about, in game 1m the strategy the terran could employ. He didn't in game one, but guess what, he did in game 2. Artosis predicted the player would be using ghosts to harass in TvZ via dropship etc which is extremely uncommon. That indicates he had "done his homework", what you're saying they don't do.
I completely disagree with you.
I think you are right about that game, but I think that had a lot to do with Artosis and Idra being good friends and Artosis being very interested in Idra's opponent. I'm sure the 2 of them talked about it beforehand.
I would like to see more of that. Also Tasteless needs to learn the observer tools a bit better. Otherwise, I think Tasteless and Artosis are doing a great job and I'm looking forward to higher level play as the tournament progresses
I have to agree with the "treat it like a job, not a hobby" statement.
Not knowing the hotkeys before going live with the "biggest tournament in the world" is unproffesional. Write the hotkeys on a piece of paper and at least disguise your inexperience.
After 3 days even I realised the basic structure of the show...when which overlay would be shown (scorebord for the day, preview for the next day, maps...etc). How can the caster that is being payed to sit there not at least have a piece of paper to know how his show is structured.
Why is "we have to wait for the korean casters to finish their sentence" 5 times a day acceptable, when basicly they could just talk until "something" happends (game starts, music starts etc.).
How come they plug the shit out of their private store?
The last 2 days (I think) Tasteless even gave some closing statement "see you guys tomorrow" before the last Interview with a winner, wich started like 20 seconds later.
I watch it for the games. Defenitly not for the commentary.
the camera work isnt great but how the hell do ppl dislike tasteless, hes fuckin awesome i dont watch these for a learning experience or to be lectured on sc2 strategy. i watch it for entertainment and tasteless is fucking entertaining
personally, i think tasteless should become the play-by-play commentator. have him state the obvious (what is seen on the screen) and then pose questions to artosis and ask for his opinions (set up artosis so he can give us his analysis/opinions) i like the constant comic relief by tasteless though regardless. its more fun for me to watch
The casts have been really really entertaining so far, I wake up at 5am on weekdays just so I can watch live. Tasteless and Artosis have been doing so well when the external circumstances are CALM. When the studio starts getting hectic, they get caught up in all the hubbub that occurs at a studio, and are often the last people made aware of decisions and timings for the actual production.
The only thing that has occurred at all that has reduced the value of the entertainment is the minor fumbling at the controls and somewhat choppy camera work. Tasteless told all of us during the last cast that he is getting the hang of it and hopes to do a lot better as the tournament progresses.
Remember people this is only the round of 64!!! There are bound to be games that have people no one really knows, poor decisions, sloppy play, etc etc.. because of the bracket positions currently.
I'm sure that as we get into the ro32 and 16 that the commentary will be a lot more compelling (strategically), due to higher level play (which means constant action, the random lulls during the low level play do cause Tasteless to get a bit distracted which is funny!)
Most of all THANK YOU to GomTV and Artosis and Tasteless and TorcH! You guys really make starcraft 2 mean so much to a lot of people and sometimes I think people take your passion and enthusiasm for granted.
Tasteless and Artosis are doing an amazing job. From what I can tell they have almost no support from the production stuff at GOM.
This makes the transitions from the games, into the interviews and to commercials extremely awkward. Artosis seems to have the timings down for the names at the beginning of the match. Tasteless's style is good, and I love the random BW names of units, its endearing. The banter between them is fun and keeps me engaged even when the players are doing standard openings for the 15th time.
Overall, I like the style, I wish GOM would support them more with an English/Korean staff member to clue them in exactly when the matches are starting, when commercials are starting, and when the camera is going to be on them. My complaints are more with GOM's production than Artosis and Tasteless themselves.
On September 10 2010 10:41 Aylear wrote: The commentators of the biggest eSports event in the world don't even know the game's hotkeys.
No, I won't give them fucking time. There's no excuse for it.
That's GOM's fault. There is no reason in hell during a $600k or w/e tournament that you do not have a dedicated English observer. Just absolutely no excuse.
I haven't watched any of the commentaries yet, but I wanted to add an observation to the thread. After every single major tournament, there has been a criticism thread. It doesn't matter who it is, everyone has their favorite caster and everyone finds things they don't like in the casting.
I am not saying we shouldn't point out ways to improve, but a huge part of it is just style preference. I am a big artosis fanboy, personally, but just because I like his style doesn't mean that someone else is necessarily less of a caster.
Anyway, just a thought. I was trying to be objective, now I will shed that for general caster thoughts. Anyone who thinks that HD/Husky know more about the game...scratch that, anyone who thinks they have a decent understanding of the game period is being silly. To me, what separates great casters from others are the ones who can look at a situation and know what it means. Go back and watch the casts from TSL 1 and 2. Artosis consistently predicted builds, or saw something small and knew what it meant right away. He displayed his deep understanding of the game. HD and Husky never ever do that, except for the obvious situations where they watched the game beforehand (like when HD posts a video of IdrA against someone not as good and says something along the lines of "lets see if player X can beat IdrA..." when we all know that the only reason he is casting the game is for the views that IdrA rage brings in). Granted SC2 no one is good at it yet since the builds aren't as deeply established as they were for SC:BW, but still. The more that SC2 becomes "figured out," the more we will see good players separate themselves as good casters.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
:o The game has been out only a few months and new people are watching every day... These new viewers don't understand the concept of building a CC in any other spot than at the expansion. When Tasteless talked about that, I actually thought "it's really great that he fits in little things like that so that people who are totally new to SC can start to learn these things"
Catering to Platinum and higher players would certainly be bad for the cast. It'd be horrible if they filtered their game knowledge by asking "do most Diamond players already know this?"
The thing is, how are you going to judge a commentator's game knowledge if you are not more knowledgeable? If they tell you something you don't already know, then you have no idea if they're correct or not. If they tell you something you already know and agree with, so you know that they're giving out accurate information, you fault them for saying something that "everyone already knows."
For me, I'm not a pro player, or even a decent player. But when Tasteless says something like "oh protoss vs protoss always comes down to an arms race of who can get colossus first", and then I watch the MLG finals, where 4 warpgate is the dominant strategy and we only saw colossus in a couple of games it just kind of sounds like he might not be aware of current trends. Correct me if I'm wrong cause I know 0 about Protoss.
One thing is for sure though, if HD Starcraft had come up with a statement like that, there would immediately be a dozen TL users bitching about how horrible his game knowledge is and how he is unfit to cast.
Since you asked for it. Tasteless was right and you are wrong. PvP is largely a race to Colossi. The way the matchup tends to work on normal maps(ie not DO and KR) is that one person 3 gate robo's or 4gates to apply immediate pressure and try to end the game while one person defends and tries to tech to colossi. If you skimp too much on defense you get your front busted and often lose while trying to get up to the colossi.
Its a dynamic matchup that Tasteless actually described pretty accurately - especially since he was playing Protoss as a main race for awhile.
Thanks for that. Note that I'm not criticising Tasteless on his game knowledge, just trying to explain why some might be criticising him on it.
As far as I'm concerned, if they are having fun casting then I'm having fun too. It's understandable for them to talk about things other than the game as well. Most people don't realize how hard it is to find a lot of stuff to talk about when strategies change on a weekly basis and half the players are just random nerds who haven't made a name for themselves yet. The worst thing a caster can do is not talk at all and to prevent that they just say whatever comes to them first. Sure, there might have been some mistakes but overall the casts have been very enjoyable. Maybe wait for them to cast together for longer than a week before being too overly critical.
I like the zoom in The tabs could be used a little more I would like it if occasionally they would let the camra follow 1 player's actions so we can see how awesome they are or how they micro.
They really need to improve on excitement. Tasteless used to be loud and very energetic. Now it just sounds like I'm just listening to a couple of dudes sitting back takin' it easy on their lunch break.
It depends if you're hacking your way through a rain forest or being shown the implement the surgeon will open you up with.
So it is with the 'who's the better caster' argument in this thread. Each of us puts our own weighting on witty banter, word usage (a game does not 'continue to progress', it just 'progresses' or 'continues'), game knowledge, game awareness and who we are secretly jealous of.
On September 10 2010 10:41 Aylear wrote: The commentators of the biggest eSports event in the world don't even know the game's hotkeys.
No, I won't give them fucking time. There's no excuse for it.
That's GOM's fault. There is no reason in hell during a $600k or w/e tournament that you do not have a dedicated English observer. Just absolutely no excuse.
Oh, I'm not putting the blame squarely on the casters' shoulders (although I would like them to take it more seriously by going the extra mile for us and spending an evening memorizing the hotkeys or researching the players they're going to be casting the next day). GOM is very much disregarding the foreign scene with their neglect, and they obviously haven't given the casters the resources they should have. Yes, GOM has other concerns, but what they've given us so far is very much a second rate product. That by itself is okay; I mean, I expected as much. But I was expecting excellence in one particular area: The casting.
I don't feel like we're being taken seriously. We're an afterthought, barely worth spending time on.
On September 10 2010 10:47 Ronald_McD wrote: I like the zoom in The tabs could be used a little more I would like it if occasionally they would let the camra follow 1 player's actions so we can see how awesome they are or how they micro.
They really need to improve on excitement. Tasteless used to be loud and very energetic. Now it just sounds like I'm just listening to a couple of dudes sitting back takin' it easy on their lunch break.
I don't know about that, a lot of people I've talked to keep saying Tasteless isn't as energetic, but I'm not sure if that's right, I still think he's very loud and energetic. Artosis and Tasteless aren't loud all through out the game yeah, but they still scream and cheer throughout.
I like the little zooming in, I don't think it really takes anything away ( Although doesn't add much lol.)
I do think Player Vision and the Tabs should be switched from Production, Income and such more often.
Watch the korean vods. The observers are fucking great. The mouse moves slow and points stuff out. The tabs change consistently. Outlying dots on the minimap are given attention without missing action. The observing is just on another level.
I started getting in to starcraft with the gomtv casting by tasteless so I admit to being biased. I cant understand how people are saying he knows nothing about the game when he has been shown to be very capable of beating very good players in sc2. They chemistry between artosis and tasteless is very nice. That being said, he does need to improve, the observing could be better and he has missed some stuff during important games.
On September 10 2010 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote: This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
On September 10 2010 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote: This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
gimme a break u big overgrown peach
Only rekrul can say this and not get banned lol. But i agree with rekrul .
I'm having a blast with the GSL and the casters are just perfect to me. I love Tasteless laid back style and I even love the way he doesnt know the keys lol
It's all good to point out constructive tips, but once again, some people should show some more respect to such big names in the scene.
I haven't enjoyed the casting much either to be honest. I don't think they are awful. They've been entertaining, better than normal streamers on TL.
However, when I watch an event like this I expect professionalism. I see them joking around about random stuff and going on huge tangents that don't matter at all and all I can think about is : if they were the Korean casters they would not have a job anymore. They haven't been perfect following the action either which is a shame but for me the real problem is the unproffessional commentary. Sometimes they go several minutes without really talking about the game or what's happening. I think this would be a lot more enjoyable if they were 100% focused on the game instead of treating it like their personal stream.
On September 10 2010 11:44 Kurr wrote: I haven't enjoyed the casting much either to be honest. I don't think they are awful. They've been entertaining, better than normal streamers on TL.
However, when I watch an event like this I expect professionalism. I see them joking around about random stuff and going on huge tangents that don't matter at all and all I can think about is : if they were the Korean casters they would not have a job anymore. They haven't been perfect following the action either which is a shame but for me the real problem is the unproffessional commentary. Sometimes they go several minutes without really talking about the game or what's happening. I think this would be a lot more enjoyable if they were 100% focused on the game instead of treating it like their personal stream.
I disagree. I think the jokes and comments made by Tasteless and Artosis keep it funny and lighthearted. They usually keep it to when not much is happening in the game, which I find acceptable. They do still have some work to do in providing coverage of the game, but I would hate for them to completely lose their banter.
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony.
HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother)
I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip.
tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise.
But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
:o The game has been out only a few months and new people are watching every day... These new viewers don't understand the concept of building a CC in any other spot than at the expansion. When Tasteless talked about that, I actually thought "it's really great that he fits in little things like that so that people who are totally new to SC can start to learn these things"
Catering to Platinum and higher players would certainly be bad for the cast. It'd be horrible if they filtered their game knowledge by asking "do most Diamond players already know this?"
The thing is, how are you going to judge a commentator's game knowledge if you are not more knowledgeable? If they tell you something you don't already know, then you have no idea if they're correct or not. If they tell you something you already know and agree with, so you know that they're giving out accurate information, you fault them for saying something that "everyone already knows."
Very great point !
If GOMTV is actually trying to extend esports, it is wise for them to cater their casting to all levels of players and even broodwar players looking to switch over.
On September 10 2010 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote: This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
because you live with him? just because someone doesnt quote statistics and meaningless boring shit at you doesnt mean they dont prepare. its blatantly obvious that in less than a week his casts have vastly improved in terms of the sc2 obs features. ya he wasnt familiar with them at first, because he spent his time practicing the game so he could actually talk coherently about it, unlike all but 2 other casters.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
its not his job to teach you who koreannewbie#34 is. its his job to talk about the game and be entertaining. and he does that. when a player is noteworthy he talks about them, when theres an unknown who might become noteworthy, like iron, he tells you that. when someone is an actual nobody that means theres nothing to say about them. so he's funny and entertaining and he talks about the game.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
On September 10 2010 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote: This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
because you live with him? just because someone doesnt quote statistics and meaningless boring shit at you doesnt mean they dont prepare. its blatantly obvious that in less than a week his casts have vastly improved in terms of the sc2 obs features. ya he wasnt familiar with them at first, because he spent his time practicing the game so he could actually talk coherently about it, unlike all but 2 other casters.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
its not his job to teach you who koreannewbie#34 is. its his job to talk about the game and be entertaining. and he does that. when a player is noteworthy he talks about them, when theres an unknown who might become noteworthy, like iron, he tells you that. when someone is an actual nobody that means theres nothing to say about them. so he's funny and entertaining and he talks about the game.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
shut up
Nicely put, Btw If you don't mind, but could you share with us who do you think are the other two worthy casters :D? Let me guess Artosis and Day9?
On September 10 2010 07:50 iCCup.Diamond wrote: One thing I forgot is there 100% be an observer besides the casters like how GOM did it in BW. It's 100x easier with it being built in and they can break cam anytime they need.
With this much $ on the line I'm surprised they don't have a dedicated English Observer.
On September 10 2010 07:50 iCCup.Diamond wrote: One thing I forgot is there 100% be an observer besides the casters like how GOM did it in BW. It's 100x easier with it being built in and they can break cam anytime they need.
With this much $ on the line I'm surprised they don't have a dedicated English Observer.
QFT
Thank you. I seriously think this is something GOM needs to address. Having no dedicated english observer is a REALLY BIG FUCKING DEAL. It's not smart and not fair to the casters. You don't see John Madden down on the field casting and holding the camera at the same time....
Edit: I think this will allow Tasteless to move quickly back to his old BW form much quicker than the current setup. Please please please please GOM get a dedicated English observer. I can't really say this enough.
I love Tastosis, especially all the small talk and jokes as it's blatantly boring being told what's happening in front of my very eyes. It's funny that names like HD and Husky pop up here, they're not exactly revered by most of us who have watched more than quarter of an SC2 game in our lives.
I do remember stuff like Tasteless introducing pretty (free) as a "new" player in one of the GOM tourneys back in 2008, but god did he and SDM rock GOM season 3! Not to mention Tastosis during last year's WCG, t'was amazing.
Give them some time to find their comfort zones, and this wil become greatness again :-)
I like the commentary so far. All I could ask is that you keep the production tab up when you're not explicitly checking something else. Really helps us watching the game (and yourself) keep up with tech choices, when units/workers are being produced, upgrades, ect. and still allowing you to follow the action, not having to search bases for tech.
I.E units tab to highlight an army, back to production tab. income tab to highlight economy differences, back to production tab. APM for lulz, back to production tab.
Enjoyable commentary improving noticeably every single night though. I like your map detail spotting during lulls in the action. =)
On September 10 2010 10:41 Aylear wrote: The commentators of the biggest eSports event in the world don't even know the game's hotkeys.
No, I won't give them fucking time. There's no excuse for it.
Considering not everyone uses the same hotkey setup it's not really an issue if they know them or not. I don't care what hotkey is used for what unit when I'm watching a game. I care about what's happening and want a little info about things related to the situation.
Both Tasteless and Artosis are getting the hang of things. Nobody was perfect at first.
I admit I like HD/Husky a lot, been watching them since the beta started.. but people who are dissing Tasteless and his SC game knowledge are seriously out of it. Tasteless has been a top SC player for many years, and his casting at various tournaments and the GOM Classic have always been top notch. A lot of the issues he has to deal with now in the GSL is actually due to GOM since they obviously don't prioritize their resources for the foreign cast. He gets little information on the players and has to wing the show every time, just like in the GOM classic.
I'm getting a lot of the good vibes from the cast just like his older ones.. and people have to remember that this is a new game, he is still adapting his cast style to SC2..
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
I think you're alone in your opinions here. They clearly both have a "future in casting" since that's what they do.
No they arent ... Tartosis are soo full of themselves in their commenting that it is a lot more buddy talk than game analysis. They are ALWAYS talking and thus miss key things like the Fusion Core and the BC being built when AugustWeRRa beat oGsLeader. Thats almost 2 minutes of building time and one building they SHOULD HAVE noticed. They do that twice in a row, so its NOT one exception and they should have looked for it in the second [third] game. The Korean commentators got all of these things both times ... even the Protoss got it (the Fusion Core) with his Observer. Tasteless and Artosis are blabbering on about Banshee and Ravens while the Fusion Core and the Tech Lab at the Starport is building.
The combination of them makes it extremely BAD, because they are doing too much "buddy talk".
On September 10 2010 07:50 iCCup.Diamond wrote: One thing I forgot is there 100% be an observer besides the casters like how GOM did it in BW. It's 100x easier with it being built in and they can break cam anytime they need.
With this much $ on the line I'm surprised they don't have a dedicated English Observer.
QFT
Thank you. I seriously think this is something GOM needs to address. Having no dedicated english observer is a REALLY BIG FUCKING DEAL. It's not smart and not fair to the casters. You don't see John Madden down on the field casting and holding the camera at the same time....
Edit: I think this will allow Tasteless to move quickly back to his old BW form much quicker than the current setup. Please please please please GOM get a dedicated English observer. I can't really say this enough.
Maybe Tasteless and Artosis should lock their point of view to the Korean Observer? Cheap, easy and fast solution IMO.
On September 10 2010 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote: This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
because you live with him? just because someone doesnt quote statistics and meaningless boring shit at you doesnt mean they dont prepare. its blatantly obvious that in less than a week his casts have vastly improved in terms of the sc2 obs features. ya he wasnt familiar with them at first, because he spent his time practicing the game so he could actually talk coherently about it, unlike all but 2 other casters.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
its not his job to teach you who koreannewbie#34 is. its his job to talk about the game and be entertaining. and he does that. when a player is noteworthy he talks about them, when theres an unknown who might become noteworthy, like iron, he tells you that. when someone is an actual nobody that means theres nothing to say about them. so he's funny and entertaining and he talks about the game.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
shut up
Im sure tasteless is a great guy so i guess its normal that you guys defend him, but I dont think Mani's post is far off.
In sc1 days with "famous" pros tasteless was already messing up players and now it doesnt really seem like there is any preparation either. He doesnt have to teach me who unknown newbie #34 is, but if Intotherain is playing it would be nice if he would actually know that... Even 90% of the stream watchers knew that... I guess he was just reading TL as the game started and suddenly realized it... It is part of his job to know this and tell us this though...
Also didnt tasteless himself say that he didnt play the game that much yesterday in the cast? That would conflict with what you just said. Not 100% sure though... My stream is laggy as hell and its not always that easy to follow ^^
Anyway he's funny, yes, but that doesn't mean he doesnt have to do any preparation...
Stratwise I feel the overall comment is fine, sometimes it's just hard for them to predict when players do unorthodox strats...
I really feel like the casting would be almost perfect if there was a separate person as the observer (even if it's the Korean observer). It often feels like Tasteless is a bit overwhelmed by having to talk, control the camera in a non-jarring way, and figure out where he should be paying attention to in the game. Artosis does sometimes make him aware of things that he's missed, but it's not consistent and doesn't lessen the load on Tasteless's back too much. In addition, Tasteless is clearly unfamiliar with many of the observer functions.
As someone mentioned earlier, Tasteless could lock his camera to that of a third party observer, then break the lock to comment on funny things. If he did that and he or Artosis kept an eye on the production tab? It would make things so much better. I don't think that the weak link is Tasteless's ability to commentate; he's just being a bit overwhelmed.
On September 10 2010 13:48 Kaolla wrote: Also didnt tasteless himself say that he didnt play the game that much yesterday in the cast? That would conflict with what you just said. Not 100% sure though... My stream is laggy as hell and its not always that easy to follow ^^
Anyway he's funny, yes, but that doesn't mean he doesnt have to do any preparation...
Yes, Tasteless said something along these lines and yes, being funny is NOT enough to cast these games.
I basically agree with Nony here. I like Tastosis's more laid-back, humorous approach to commentating, and I enjoy watching their casts more than almost any other caster out there right now. Their style isn't exactly analytical, but they give enough background info and technical stuff about the games to be interesting.
Mistakes, of course, are a whole different thing; they've definitely made mistakes, but they've improved so far, and will continue to improve in the future. I for one am greatly enjoying the journey....
I agree he was messy in BW stuff, but so far I think him and Artosis have done an excellent job casting. It's not as analytical as I'd like, but they're still making pretty good predictions and pointing out most things (except that awful BC thing) and I usually lol at least once a game.
I might get banned for this, but the simple fact is:
It takes an informed fan, to truly appreciate a good commentator. I think Husky is decent, HDH says little of worth but finds interesting games to put up, so I watch his vids.
However, to compare them to Tastless and Artosis is simply absurd. Maybe, maybe, given enough time HDH will get there, but they are not in the same league currently.
On September 10 2010 13:48 Kaolla wrote: Also didnt tasteless himself say that he didnt play the game that much yesterday in the cast? That would conflict with what you just said. Not 100% sure though... My stream is laggy as hell and its not always that easy to follow ^^
Anyway he's funny, yes, but that doesn't mean he doesnt have to do any preparation...
Yes, Tasteless said something along these lines and yes, being funny is NOT enough to cast these games.
he's not just funny
nerds are the whiniest bunch of people i ever met, need every single part of a caster to be perfect to be pleased
oh man some of the stupidity in this thread had me laughing for a loooong time, LOL in particular @ Nihilnovi and Vz0
to quote nony,
For entertainment value, Artosis and Tasteless are way better than everyone else for me. I don't even like when commentators get all excited (unless I'm the one playing). I looove the laid back approach, cracking jokes and making funny observations. It's perfect for me.
its 100% perfect for me also
As for Mani, I understand where you are coming from with your huge passion for SC2, but I think you are being wayyyy too harsh. I feel sorry for all the TL nerds who honestly enjoy the same old d'Apollo play by play and manufactured excitement game after game after game. I have about 3 times as much fun watching GSL than I do IEM; yes it would be nice if tasteless knew some shit about random_korean_player_05 but as other people in this thread have mentioned, its not his job. The point I'm trying to make here is that entertainment value should come before any of the other shit.
I think in summary that the real gem of this thread is from Hrrrrm though, and ill QFT:
People are missing the most obvious thing when trying to give Tasteless and Artosis the benefit of the doubt. They know what both of them are capable of and I do so as well. The thing is that people just coming into SC2 have NO IDEA who they are. I'll give a perfect example, I got a friend of mine into watching SC2 through iCCup and Day9 and he was pleased, enjoyed watching the game a lot even though he rarely plays. I told him about the upcoming GSL and how Tasteless use to cast for BW from Korea and how the hype was amazing. Fast forward to the first cast and he tells me how he felt it was freaking amateur hour. They want me to pay $20 when the casters don't even know or have familiarity with the tools while I can get Day9 or iCCup for free?
Part of peoples displeasure is from what seems like the obvious lack of preparation by Tasteless. The hype and huge expectations did not materialize in the cast. It truly did seem like Tasteless had never tried to Obs or cast a single game in SC2 on that first night. I love Tasteless and his style but I don't know if it was because he felt he was assured the job that he didn't bother to prepare. This is on the job training at it's finest.
I think the majority of the people complaining or offering criticism in this thread are genuine. They all want Tasteless and Artosis to succeed and just feel let down that they just seem to have not taken this opportunity seriously from the get go.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
I think you're alone in your opinions here. They clearly both have a "future in casting" since that's what they do.
No they arent ... Tartosis are soo full of themselves in their commenting that it is a lot more buddy talk than game analysis. They are ALWAYS talking and thus miss key things like the Fusion Core and the BC being built when AugustWeRRa beat oGsLeader. Thats almost 2 minutes of building time and one building they SHOULD HAVE noticed. They do that twice in a row, so its NOT one exception and they should have looked for it in the second [third] game. The Korean commentators got all of these things both times ... even the Protoss got it (the Fusion Core) with his Observer. Tasteless and Artosis are blabbering on about Banshee and Ravens while the Fusion Core and the Tech Lab at the Starport is building.
The combination of them makes it extremely BAD, because they are doing too much "buddy talk".
On September 10 2010 07:50 iCCup.Diamond wrote: One thing I forgot is there 100% be an observer besides the casters like how GOM did it in BW. It's 100x easier with it being built in and they can break cam anytime they need.
With this much $ on the line I'm surprised they don't have a dedicated English Observer.
QFT
Thank you. I seriously think this is something GOM needs to address. Having no dedicated english observer is a REALLY BIG FUCKING DEAL. It's not smart and not fair to the casters. You don't see John Madden down on the field casting and holding the camera at the same time....
Edit: I think this will allow Tasteless to move quickly back to his old BW form much quicker than the current setup. Please please please please GOM get a dedicated English observer. I can't really say this enough.
Maybe Tasteless and Artosis should lock their point of view to the Korean Observer? Cheap, easy and fast solution IMO.
I watch the games with the Korean HD video + English commentary and I've gotta say, the Korean obs is pretty terrible. I don't know how Tasteless's is, since I haven't watched since day 1, but the Korean obs is regularly late to engagements or tech structures/expansions going up.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
you know I was thinking the same thing, but then my roommate came in and watched the match and he barely knows shit about sc2 (he just started playing a week ago and is about a gold player) and he really got into the stream, saying like "wow cmon artosis, build more hydras" and shit lol but it was cool because someone with no background was actually getting into the way they were casting.
ME and my friends watched the Idra game and we were all laughing at loud at how terrible the obsing was. IT was so bad it was almost like a joke-- I really hope they get a hang of it. The casting itself was subpar, tbh
On September 10 2010 14:19 Ndugu wrote: ME and my friends watched the Idra game and we were all laughing at loud at how terrible the obsing was. IT was so bad it was almost like a joke-- I really hope they get a hang of it. The casting itself was subpar, tbh
Basically through this post you are admitting that you've only watched one game! The obsing in that game was so bad because of a technical error, and it was never even close to that bad ever again. Why are you coming into this thread and expressing your opinion when you've only bothered to watch one game?
On September 10 2010 14:19 Ndugu wrote: ME and my friends watched the Idra game and we were all laughing at loud at how terrible the obsing was. IT was so bad it was almost like a joke-- I really hope they get a hang of it. The casting itself was subpar, tbh
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
I think you're alone in your opinions here. They clearly both have a "future in casting" since that's what they do.
No they arent ... Tartosis are soo full of themselves in their commenting that it is a lot more buddy talk than game analysis. They are ALWAYS talking and thus miss key things like the Fusion Core and the BC being built when AugustWeRRa beat oGsLeader. Thats almost 2 minutes of building time and one building they SHOULD HAVE noticed. They do that twice in a row, so its NOT one exception and they should have looked for it in the second [third] game. The Korean commentators got all of these things both times ... even the Protoss got it (the Fusion Core) with his Observer. Tasteless and Artosis are blabbering on about Banshee and Ravens while the Fusion Core and the Tech Lab at the Starport is building.
The combination of them makes it extremely BAD, because they are doing too much "buddy talk".
On September 10 2010 12:54 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
On September 10 2010 12:51 leetchaos wrote:
On September 10 2010 07:50 iCCup.Diamond wrote: One thing I forgot is there 100% be an observer besides the casters like how GOM did it in BW. It's 100x easier with it being built in and they can break cam anytime they need.
With this much $ on the line I'm surprised they don't have a dedicated English Observer.
QFT
Thank you. I seriously think this is something GOM needs to address. Having no dedicated english observer is a REALLY BIG FUCKING DEAL. It's not smart and not fair to the casters. You don't see John Madden down on the field casting and holding the camera at the same time....
Edit: I think this will allow Tasteless to move quickly back to his old BW form much quicker than the current setup. Please please please please GOM get a dedicated English observer. I can't really say this enough.
Maybe Tasteless and Artosis should lock their point of view to the Korean Observer? Cheap, easy and fast solution IMO.
I watch the games with the Korean HD video + English commentary and I've gotta say, the Korean obs is pretty terrible. I don't know how Tasteless's is, since I haven't watched since day 1, but the Korean obs is regularly late to engagements or tech structures/expansions going up.
Tasteless's camerawork has been pretty hit-or-miss for me. At times he seems to be getting around showing most of the stuff(especially in the ZvX games where Artosis really puts out a lot and directs Tasteless' view around, those are wonderful, see MaruPrime vs Cella for the most part - even there he missed all but the tail end of a couple of the drops), but at other times he seems to pan away from a big battle with micro going on to look at a doodad or Automaton critter or something. I really don't mind the doodad stuff in the early stages of the game when its slow, and I generally like their banter and relaxed style, but its frustrating missing keypoints of battles because he decides to pan it slightly off for whatever reason. I forget which match it was (PvP on Steppes with the DT into FE against collossus), but I was completely confused as to why the Collossus player lost his army when he had an obs because Tasteless completely missed the key part of the battle which was apparently a stalker blink snipe of the obs allowing DT's to wreck the enemy army. Tasteless/Artosis didn't even comment on it, and I only figured it out because I was in the Livereport thread where people were complaining that they didn't show/mention it >_>.
As far as tech structures/expansions, Tasteless has been really on top of some of the protoss stuff (seeing Robotics Bay go up and predicting it a couple seconds in advance, noting Templar Archives, etc) but it seems odd that the Terran stuff seems to go unnoticed despite the fact that he apparently plays Terran now? Actually, I don't even know that its that often that he misses it, I think its just jarring that he missed the fusion core in all the games that it came into play since its like "OH hey BC's are out" - people expect you to note that, but so far he hasn't.
All that said, his camerawork in the last two nights has been INCREDIBLY better than it was on the first night, so I have confidence he'll get it.
In my opinion the small interviews (if we can call them this way) are the worst part of the show. I know there's a huge language barrier between Artosis/Tasteless and the Korean translator but seriously... kind of ridiculous how those chit-chats are going:
-question -translation/answer/translation -aaaaaah, excellent, that is excellent -question -translation/answer/translation -aaaaaaah, nice, that is nice
And you guys really should avoid those so overused terms you are using. I don't know if the Korean commentators do the same mistake, but it's just annoying to hear the same thing over and over again in a 10 minutes long game. There's even a thread somewhere with the exact same title here on TL.
On September 10 2010 10:01 Bill Murray wrote: I had to respond to this. I would like you to watch Idra's round 1 matches in the ro64 and tell me what you just said again. It completely proves you wrong. Artosis was talking about, in game 1m the strategy the terran could employ. He didn't in game one, but guess what, he did in game 2. Artosis predicted the player would be using ghosts to harass in TvZ via dropship etc which is extremely uncommon. That indicates he had "done his homework", what you're saying they don't do.
I completely disagree with you.
It could also simply be that Artosis visits TL, which has a ton of Idra fanboys, that actually had a thread posted about Idra's opponent for that game and that based off replays the guy seemed to heavily favor fast ghost drops. I saw that thread days before the game was broadcast. It's too easy to read too far into the situation one way or the other.
The pair can make improvements, sure, but I kinda like their current "gamer charm." Their biggest audience isn't general public right now, it's a bunch of nerdy gamers who are generally gonna be more entertained by their antics than a cut and dry factual delivery of a more "professional" commentator.
Learn the friggin' hotkeys, and keep telling random jokes.
So I have no idea how this discussion got so out of control, but I've tried to read what I can. This started out by a single fan trying to give some feedback to Artosis and Tasteless, but then it turned into some massive flamewar over who the best caster is. In all honesty, I think the two of them are doing a great job of commentating the matches that I have seen. Have you seen John "I think the team that scores the most points will win" Madden commentate a sports game? Commentators are not here to make you learn or make you a better player. They are simply here to make watching the game more enjoyable, plain and simple.
Those of you stating that they don't have the 'knowledge' of other casters, try and even do 1/10th of what they have done before you start saying they don't know what they are talking about. Those of you who don't like their inside jokes, just post on the GOM forums in some kind of feedback thread instead of whining about it here. Clearly experienced players have respect for the casters, so why should you question their abilities to cast a high level game? Make your suggestions and move on.
For what it's worth, I find the two of them to be entertaining casters that have insightful comments that help me learn through watching while enjoying the game. Not every comment they make teaches me something, but what's so wrong with that? They make the games more fun to watch.
On September 10 2010 14:08 motbob wrote: I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Tasteless is, and always has been, the consummate professional.
god damn i hope tasteless doesnt take this thread seriously at all and never changes. i really cant stand casters that try incredibly hard to be professional and analytical at every single moment of the cast. most of the time the analysis is common knowledge to most players anyways (esp. if you have over 1k games played total from beta and retail which many ppl do). this is supposed to be entertainment, not a lesson on sc2 strategy
pro gaming must b srs bsns to the whiners in this thread
Tasteless lost his spark a long time ago. He should really move on because this clearly isn't his real passion anymore. He sounds like a mercenary these days, not like a true game lover.
And Artosis has the infamous 'phony weatherman' syndrome which I can't get over, he just annoys me.
Either kick your game up a notch, or step aside and leave it to the young guns. Like someone said, there are people who would kill to do what you do for a living, so better think for a second before deciding.
P.S. About Husky and HD, I'm gonna use a parallel with the Korean commentators. A LOT of people love Korean commentaries, and you could validly say that they teach you nothing about the game, because you don't understand shit, but they have huge amounts of passion in them. (and a more steady camera) I'd trade good analysis for passion any day, if we can't have both.
I don't speak Korean but the Korean casting seems way, way, way better. I like their camera way more. Even not knowing the language you can pick up a lot as they show you important tech buildings are they are going up, and click on them. They are much more attuned to showing you the ins and outs of the game, rather than just watching it. I'm sure their commentary is more about the game aswell and less about flying chandeliers and stuff (Tasteless actually cracks more random shit, can't come up with anything now though =P).
I hadn't heard either of them commentate before. Originally I was looking forward to hearing Tasteless because I like Day[9] a lot, and because I don't like the way Artosis looked in the pics I saw of him hahaha. But I'm glad that Artosis is there actually, he does know the players and backgrounds and stuff as he plays with them. Artosis is the better commentator. (Not a competition, but perhaps Tasteless should follow his lead a bit)
On September 10 2010 16:36 niteReloaded wrote: Tasteless lost his spark a long time ago. He should really move on because this clearly isn't his real passion anymore. He sounds like a mercenary these days, not like a true game lover.
And Artosis has the infamous 'phony weatherman' syndrome which I can't get over, he just annoys me.
Either kick your game up a notch, or step aside and leave it to the young guns. Like someone said, there are people who would kill to do what you do for a living, so better think for a second before deciding.
not sure what sort of spark are you reffering to, i've been following Tasteless since the first season of Gom, and i loved his style of commentating critics will always find something to critique about, i don't blame them for not getting better knowledge of most players on most of the GSL player atm, in fact the SC2 scene is so new, and not many players has actually accomplished anything in particular, its really hard to get hyped for a match of 2 random korean dude duking it out, there's not many that " star " as there have been in SC1 to get people that excited yet.
for me the tastosis duo is awesome, but i miss more of SDM + Tasteless duo more tbh, SDM alaways try to make the cast more professional (though he did fail at that some times during hsi casting career) and insightful giving out player history from the perspective of a ex-team manager and his stories on progamers are pretty awesome sometimes and of course SDM + Tasteless always seems to produce some of the most random jokes ever. toss in SDM into tastosis for me would be perfect.
most people here seems to compare these casts to real sports professional cast, the laid back and having fun nature of the cast appeals to me more actually. I do agree with some of the points brought up though, it seems kinda silly that a caster doesn't fully knows the observing tools available for them...
Figured i would give the opinion of a wiever who never played BW-multiplayer, never watched a single BW match and who certainly had never heard of Tasteless or anyone else in the scene, and yet has been totally sold on SC2 ever since i came across my first beta-cast by HD on youtube.
Now i play myself, plat league, and i still spend around two hours a day watching VOD's and have payed for premium both on GOM and ESL.
I had such a high hopes for the GSL-casts but i really found the casts to be somewhat disappointing, i found HDH & Day9 to be smoother and more entertaining.
In any caster duo there traditionally is one "main-caster" and one expert commentator to provide additional insights into the game, be it Fotball, Hockey or in this case SC2. I didn't expect Tasteless to know everything or be to technical, what i expected him to do was carry the cast, keep it smooth and flowing and making sure I as a viewer was keeping up with what is happening, having Artosis provide the why is something happening and what could be the consequences och counters.
They are a caster duo, they should complement each other and work together but i dont find that they are are working that well together. To often do Artosis "cut-in" with something that is not really related or going totally out-of-the-game off topic. Tasteless should focus much more on keeping a tab on what is happening (BC coming out...) and leaving more of the analysis to Artosis.
That is part of the reason why i enjoy HDH so much, they are both great at carrying the cast and making the wiever really feel into the game, where they fail is that they are not experts and i would really like HD to do a cast flanked by someone with great game knowledge and insight (Torch for exemple). So instead of HD guessing why player X is building MMM + Banshee + Raven before pushing out he can just ask the expert what his thoughts on this is. Day9 is the best i have seen yet, managing both parts fairly well.
Also, why for me Tasteless + Torch was the best cast of GSL so far, without Artosis Tasteless took charge more and Torch did exactly what i wanted him to do: Provide expert analysis when needed but not cutting in with useless stuff.
But, all things said i still enjoy the casts a lot and will definatly keep bying premium on GOM-TV =)
On September 10 2010 16:36 niteReloaded wrote: Tasteless lost his spark a long time ago. He should really move on because this clearly isn't his real passion anymore. He sounds like a mercenary these days, not like a true game lover.
And Artosis has the infamous 'phony weatherman' syndrome which I can't get over, he just annoys me.
Either kick your game up a notch, or step aside and leave it to the young guns. Like someone said, there are people who would kill to do what you do for a living, so better think for a second before deciding.
not sure what sort of spark are you reffering to, i've been following Tasteless since the first season of Gom, and i loved his style of commentating critics will always find something to critique about, i don't blame them for not getting better knowledge of most players on most of the GSL player atm, in fact the SC2 scene is so new, and not many players has actually accomplished anything in particular, its really hard to get hyped for a match of 2 random korean dude duking it out, there's not many that " star " as there have been in SC1 to get people that excited yet.
for me the tastosis duo is awesome, but i miss more of SDM + Tasteless duo more tbh, SDM alaways try to make the cast more professional (though he did fail at that some times during hsi casting career) and insightful giving out player history from the perspective of a ex-team manager and his stories on progamers are pretty awesome sometimes and of course SDM + Tasteless always seems to produce some of the most random jokes ever. toss in SDM into tastosis for me would be perfect.
To me, he just seems like he doesn't truly enjoy this anymore. Early in Gom he was great, and before that, all those WCG casts were great.
These videos sound so much better than he does now imo:
Woah I can't even believe people are really, really complaining that hard about them @.@
They're supposed to have a lot background knowledge about EVERY player? Are you kidding me? They're commentators, not journalists. Unless they've known about the players before there's little change they give us any additional information before their first matches.
Also their knowledge is just fine and don't even try to put them on the same low level as HD / Husky. That's just a pathetic assumption. And bet, they are frigging hilarious. Not even Day9 makes me laugh so much. You just gotta love how Tasteless always picks up on the critters and stuff like "THERE'S A SCORPION IN THE HATCHERY!" Automatons2000 have feelings and want to be mentioned, too
Yes, their camera work could improve and hopefully they know about all the hotkeys soon. But that's just minor.
Edit: And I'm completely new to them. Didn't listen to BW casts.
On September 10 2010 14:08 motbob wrote: I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Tasteless is, and always has been, the consummate professional.
On September 10 2010 17:00 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: + Show Spoiler +
Woah I can't even believe people are really, really complaining that hard about them @.@
They're supposed to have a lot background knowledge about EVERY player? Are you kidding me? They're commentators, not journalists. Unless they've known about the players before there's little change they give us any additional information before their first matches.
Also their knowledge is just fine and don't even try to put them on the same low level as HD / Husky. That's just a pathetic assumption. And bet, they are frigging hilarious. Not even Day9 makes me laugh so much. You just gotta love how Tasteless always picks up on the critters and stuff like "THERE'S A SCORPION IN THE HATCHERY!" Automatons2000 have feelings and want to be mentioned, too
Yes, their camera work could improve and hopefully they know about all the hotkeys soon. But that's just minor.
Edit: And I'm completely new to them. Didn't listen to BW casts
.
GSL - International tourney, Tasteless and Artosis - English speaking commentators for the event [ they are not commentating on a small regional event for 100 peeps, mind you ]
Yes, they are supposed to: - Know everything there is to know about each and every player participating in the toruney ... [ if/when available - including deep research on that ] - Know whos playing in the first set, second, third [ reading notes to find out whos playing in the last set ? come on... ] - Learn that 'our Terran player' has a nickname, and use that nickname [ every day its up to 5 games = 10 players... don't tell u cant learn that ] - Know how to use and when to use spectator tools BEFORE the event starts .... and keep it sexy
I wont says whether or not they are good commentators coz its a matter of personal opinion, so are the jokes ppl make - some like dat some don't. I will just say, after seeing what i already saw - i wouldn't hire tasteless to commentate my GSL tourney - which doesnt mean i dont enjoy his casting
If you really think they are supposed to do deep researches that they most likely don't get payed for as commentators then stop right there, I just can't share your opinion.
Also 90% of their audience couldn't care less about the fact where some unknown player was born, really.
Edit: In fact, they often gave information that interested me. Like that one 2000+ points player. I'm interested in that, as it concerns SC2. But whatever, everyones a critic nowadays ;P
What's funny to me is that you people will complain no matter what. If they were dead serious the whole time you would be crying that they need to lighten up and be more relaxed. They're both great commentators and are probably the most entertaining duo you could possibly have.
Stop whining and be glad you have these two instead of other people who talk about a bunch of useless garbage to make themselves seem more knowledgeable ..by the way, whoever said hd/husky were better must be mental midgets.
i think get off in the BW tangent quite a bit and that might confuse some newcomers that don't have a good starcraft background. Also, a lot of reference to progamers in general and that might throw off a lot of people. Of course, most of this is in the intersessions and the first 3 minutes of the game when there isn't much to look at for say and doesn't help that there no posters(cheerboards) to look @ and comment on.
Only thing that bothers me is just camera work. That's it. Missing bits and pieces here and there is kind of disappointing. Kind of.
That being said, I sacrifice sleep everyday in order to watch and listen to Tasteless and Artosis. The GSL is just so much more entertaining with the both of them. Most other tournaments I feel like I'm in class, getting lectured on SC2. Most times I'll start dozing off or alt tab. With Tastosis, I'm fully engulfed. I loathe the commercial break, I yearn for their handsome faces to reappear. And when they come back, I fall right back under their spell. No homo.
I don't agree with most of the criticism leveled at tasteless. Sure, they could have steadier camera control or learn a little more about the players - fair enough, but these are minor issues. Tasteless' charm comes from his non-sequitur humour and his relaxed poise, and its far more enjoyable and easier on the ears than having a thousand words hurled at you (which popular 'wisdom' suggests is the high point of casting- see youtube commentators).
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know?
Take any sport and you will see that there are fans, who know a lot more about the theory and players than they "pros". I am sure that a lot of people are watching (not playing) a lot more SC2 than you are, which makes them more qualified to comment on the different styles of casting and how good they are at sharing the information.
I completely agree with Manifesto and JWD, that Tasteless and Artosis are unprofessional and treating it like a hobby. It is clear that Tasteless has never watched any of his brothers shows as that would have taught him the basic tools for spectating and commentating a match.
On September 10 2010 17:42 sigma_x wrote: I don't agree with most of the criticism leveled at tasteless. Sure, they could have steadier camera control or learn a little more about the players - fair enough, but these are minor issues. Tasteless' charm comes from his non-sequitur humour and his relaxed poise, and its far more enjoyable and easier on the ears than having a thousand words hurled at you (which popular 'wisdom' suggests is the high point of casting- see youtube commentators).
Missing drops, game changing units and getting late to a lot of battles is not something minor. These are exciting parts of the game and when Tasteless gets there late to the action or just completely misses it a lot of the excitement is gone. I like the casting in general but he really needs to pay attention to the minimap.
I haven't had time to read through these 200 previous posts, so hopefully I'm not just saying a whole bunch of junk that's been said already:
Commentating in SC2 is far more difficult to do than SCBW because of the new tabs. I mean it does give the commentators more ways to make them better commentators, but they need to constantly be switching through different tabs, as well as keeping an eye on the game.
Personally, I'm the kind of person like likes seeing everything as much as possible, and like having commentators look all over the map quickly- possibly like Tasteless did? except not even enough I think.
This brings up an issue of some people - maybe the casual viewers that don't know what they like (but probably like it slower) - who like it slower and others who want to see everything. I can understand a slow point of view, because a casual viewer could be confused by screen switching all the time, but there's definite merit to screen switching as well.
Many people want to see as much as possible going on so that they actually understand the little things happening (which are important) so that they can learn about how to play the game, why players made certain choices, and how to play or improve certain build orders or strategies.
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know?
Take any sport and you will see that there are fans, who know a lot more about the theory and players than they "pros".
i doubt thats true for many sports but its certainly not true for sc/sc2. for every thousand people who claim to have a great handle on the strategy/thinking portion of the game, and they just happen to suck because they cant practice enough to execute their brilliance, theres maybe one who actually understands as much as he thinks he does.
In my opinion the casting has been worse than I expected, especially considering the magnitude of the event. As others probably already have said, it's a job, not a hobby. If you think this is how you go about a job, then you'd probably never had a job in your entire life or at least not a very serious one.
thats it, they need me and psylence to dual cast them! ship us over!
lol. but yeah both artosis and tasteless have great speaking voices, but they have some huge gaps in their commentary, which is surprising since they are both pro gamers.
1. If tasteless says stasis one more time im going stasis his mouth
2. They have a bad habit of panning away from a major battle about to happen.
3. Don't seem active enough, but i like more analytical commentary as opposed to bells and whistles.
Reading this thread, it seems like Husky/HD aren't very popular here.
Speaking as someone who's new to Starcraft, those two are great and make entertaining videos. I never would've imagined myself ever watching SC videos for fun- but HDH pulled me in when I randomly saw one of their videos one day- and it's obvious via their millions of youtube views that they've done the same for many other casual gamers. I've watched a couple of the Gometv matches and haven't really enjoyed them.
Say what you want about HDH and their game knowledge- those two will do more for growing interest for Starcraft in America than anything or anyone else.
I don't know if this was said but I would enjoy a quick 3-6 second snapshot of every mining base at different times in the mid-late game to check each players economy. I know the korean commentators used to do this in bw as well as scan over the production buildings to check macro capabilities.
Edit: Also when there's a key tech structure show it on screen and do the mouse circle thingy on its name?
Edit 2: These things can probably be done b/w battles, I guess it takes some caster apm and micro to make it smooth and keep everything smooth .
I have to agree with the OP - Tasteless seems to be just lazy, not preparing for the games at all and not really trying to be professional. Unless you enjoy his jokes, which I guess not everyone does, he doesn't have much to offer.
But I don't agree that he has lost it, has to move one, etc., it's just that he needs to adjust his mindset a bit. It's not something you do just for your own fun.
I never played or watched BW, I've watched alot of shoutcasts of alot of other games for years and I think the GOM stream has some of the best live rapport and commentary I've heard. And it's EXCITING.
This is not a well established game with common strategies. MU's are changing weekly with each new tournament. As far as pointing out deviations from "standard play" they have done a pretty good job so far.
Tastleless's obsing definately needs some work. But if he's not doing a good job by the semi's I'll be shocked.
edit: Also I have zero knowledge of any of the players outside the ones I watched in tourney's during beta. I think they are doing an OK job of keeping us informed who most of the korean players are.
You can also tell that they are good players, unlike some of the other commentators mentioned in this thread.
On September 10 2010 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote: This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
gimme a break u big overgrown peach
Only rekrul can say this and not get banned lol. But i agree with rekrul .
Only Rekrul can say, "big overgrown peach" and not get banned? Lol, that's like the tamest thing I've ever seen Rekrul say to someone who's acting like a man-child.
lol at the hilariously rough time people are giving to tasteless. hes doing fine imo, as good as he ever did. the only thing he could improve on is managing the resource/units/production tabs a bit better. whats really funny is so many of the complainers are citing HD and husky as a better duo, which is to me incredible cause i cant stand listening to those guys for more than 5 minutes. irritating over the top screaming, and absolutely no game knowledge.
On September 10 2010 19:57 WiljushkA wrote: lol at the hilariously rough time people are giving to tasteless. hes doing fine imo, as good as he ever did. the only thing he could improve on is managing the resource/units/production tabs a bit better. whats really funny is so many of the complainers are citing HD and husky as a better duo, which is to me incredible cause i cant stand listening to those guys for more than 5 minutes. irritating over the top screaming, and absolutely no game knowledge.
This is legitimate constructive criticism. It's how people get better at what they do.
I agree with most criticism. They need to be much more professional. Comparing this with IEM Cologne its like watching amateur commentators compared to professionals (Day9 and Apollo being the pros ofc). Definitely too much chit chat about non game related this during the game. Way to many personal comments on what they would do or what the player should do. They are not the couches, they are the commentators, they should commentate on what is going on, not giving the players tips.
Day9 atm is definitely the best commentator out there. He has the sauce and most importantly he has the game knowledge. Giving so much inside on the games that are going on. its just amazing. Even total noobs can follow the players' strategies and understand what is going on. Cant say the same about tastless and artossis. Its the other way around here, even platinum players notice that they missed someting importatnt.
And about them being funny. Sense of humor is very subjective. That is why I believe there should not be so much emphasis on being funny, it should be on the game and what is going on. Sure jokes are great! But they should be there to complement the commentating, not be the center of attention. I like day9 in that regard. He focuses primely on the game adding jokes just to fill the holes.
My tip for the commentators is to watch some professionals cast in regular sport. Or if you want to limit yourself to SC2 watch day9. He knows what he is doing when commentating.
Ps: so much talk about the hotkeys. Sure they help but thats not really the biggest problem imo. Its the lack of professionalism.
Pps: I saw something about them not being played, is that true? If it is, then I can understand the low quality casting, I do not understand gom.tv logic though. If they are getting played they need to step up the game!
You guys are too critical. Tasteless is one of the only entertaining casters out there. He actually has a personality, he may not know everything but I'd rather listen to him talk about a video game rather than random asperger's inflicted caster #3235 who lacks the basic social skills to interact with other human beings, and thinks for some reason that means they can talk into a microphone
On September 10 2010 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote: This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
I agree with you about tasteless, however based on the GSL matches I've watched (certainly not all of them), Artosis has a lot of familiarity with the players -- in many cases having played against them himself. Artosis has the required in-game knowledge just from being a high-level player. I mean, there's no reason why tasteless should cluelessly ask whether the resource counting tab indicates the players' current amount of minerals during a cast. 90% of casual players probably know that shit.
artosis definitely seems full of inside info about players actually, and possesses great indepth knowledge of the game (surely the most of all casters so far), so he fulfills the role of the pundit / expert really well. i dont know why tasteless would be expected to do that if his co-caster already accomplishes that role.
tastosis has been SO AWESOME. cant believe any of you are complaining. Really. Compared to the casting in IEM and MLG this is just leagues ahead (<3 day9 but hd, husky and apollo brought him down in terms of overall quality).
they're soooooo funny, interesting. hardly any dead air. just good. and so passionate!
It is without doubt IMO the commentators job to analyze the game. And a part of analyzing the game is knowing something about the players. Obv. you cant know a lot about random korean players, but tell me their ranking on the ladder or something like that. And regarding the more famours players, I dont think it would be too much to ask if they watched a couple of replays of them so they knew how they typically played the MU.
On September 10 2010 16:24 Antedelerium wrote: So I have no idea how this discussion got so out of control, but I've tried to read what I can. This started out by a single fan trying to give some feedback to Artosis and Tasteless, but then it turned into some massive flamewar over who the best caster is. In all honesty, I think the two of them are doing a great job of commentating the matches that I have seen. Have you seen John "I think the team that scores the most points will win" Madden commentate a sports game? Commentators are not here to make you learn or make you a better player. They are simply here to make watching the game more enjoyable, plain and simple.
Those of you stating that they don't have the 'knowledge' of other casters, try and even do 1/10th of what they have done before you start saying they don't know what they are talking about. Those of you who don't like their inside jokes, just post on the GOM forums in some kind of feedback thread instead of whining about it here. Clearly experienced players have respect for the casters, so why should you question their abilities to cast a high level game? Make your suggestions and move on.
For what it's worth, I find the two of them to be entertaining casters that have insightful comments that help me learn through watching while enjoying the game. Not every comment they make teaches me something, but what's so wrong with that? They make the games more fun to watch.
IN every NFL game the commentator will typically say something like this: "Last week we saw team x do this, and it really worked out well because of y. This time though I talked to the coach of team Z and they said they prepared by doing xxx." Obv. IMO good commentators are those who makes research and provides analysis that is interesting for most people.
On September 10 2010 21:04 Hider wrote: It is without doubt IMO the commentators job to analyze the game. And a part of analyzing the game is knowing something about the players. Obv. you cant know a lot about random korean players, but tell me their ranking on the ladder or something like that. And regarding the more famours players, I dont think it would be too much to ask if they watched a couple of replays of them so they knew how they typically played the MU.
ladder rank doesnt matter anything... if you are top 1 or top 10 diamond, it can be miles and miles apart in skill level.
They do talk a lot about OGS, Werra, Prime clan etc etc. They were talking aout Spunky from OGS and what he did before being coach/manager of OGS when a OGS player was playing. They bring a lot of inside info that us foreigners dont know much about (unless you are *really* reading forums/stuff for hours and hours).
On September 10 2010 10:41 Aylear wrote: The commentators of the biggest eSports event in the world don't even know the game's hotkeys.
No, I won't give them fucking time. There's no excuse for it.
That's GOM's fault. There is no reason in hell during a $600k or w/e tournament that you do not have a dedicated English observer. Just absolutely no excuse.
What is the Korean setup? I see three people at the booth, is one of them the dedicated observer?
I think games are not good in tournament. Just wait for round of 16 when it gets start boiling. There is not much to comment now and nothing impressive is happening.
On September 10 2010 21:04 Hider wrote: It is without doubt IMO the commentators job to analyze the game. And a part of analyzing the game is knowing something about the players. Obv. you cant know a lot about random korean players, but tell me their ranking on the ladder or something like that. And regarding the more famours players, I dont think it would be too much to ask if they watched a couple of replays of them so they knew how they typically played the MU.
ladder rank doesnt matter anything... if you are top 1 or top 10 diamond, it can be miles and miles apart in skill level.
They do talk a lot about OGS, Werra, Prime clan etc etc. They were talking aout Spunky from OGS and what he did before being coach/manager of OGS when a OGS player was playing. They bring a lot of inside info that us foreigners dont know much about (unless you are *really* reading forums/stuff for hours and hours).
I think he meant the overall rank, not the division rank. Which does give you some insight of the players skill.
I don't actually like their jokes, it's not funny at all. They should stop thinking they're so funny. Also wishing bad luck to TLO next opponent... derp. I guess that's another joke.
They should stop talking if they don't have anything insightful to say. Some of the amateur casters are much better at this, they cast the game without babbling too much nonsense.
I would rather see the korean commentators if GOM allows me to.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
All you guys saying they should threat it like a job are just envy of their position. Seriously... This is a game. We want to be entertained and they have done a great jobe entertaining us. I at least laugh a lot while watching the games.
Artosis has been bringing a lot of inside about the players. At least the ones that are in clans and the ones he has been playing with and ofc they are the ones qualifying so far...
Tasteless was rusty on the first days. But he has been improving a lot so far. I agree with most of you guys saying that maybe Day9 is better than Tasteless. He is a funny guy, he has his daily shows and he knows about the game. But saying that HD and Husky are better than them is just bs.
You all should remember that Day9 is his younger brother, and a lot of his inspiration to do what he does these days came from Tasteless a long time ago.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
I think JW banged it right over the head.
I just read that post, and was about to post pretty much that exact same thing!
On September 10 2010 10:41 Aylear wrote: The commentators of the biggest eSports event in the world don't even know the game's hotkeys.
No, I won't give them fucking time. There's no excuse for it.
That's GOM's fault. There is no reason in hell during a $600k or w/e tournament that you do not have a dedicated English observer. Just absolutely no excuse.
What is the Korean setup? I see three people at the booth, is one of them the dedicated observer?
I believe it is a fourth guy, who is only concentrating on observing and does not have to talk.
On September 10 2010 21:35 torm3ntin wrote: All you guys saying they should threat it like a job are just envy of their position. Seriously... This is a game. We want to be entertained and they have done a great jobe entertaining us. I at least laugh a lot while watching the games.
Basketball is just a game as well. So is football. The commentators for those two games still take their jobs seriously. Btw their entertainment is subjective, some like it some don't. Their game commentating is sub par. Thats the problem!
You all should remember that Day9 is his younger brother, and a lot of his inspiration to do what he does these days came from Tasteless a long time ago.
Seriously dude? :D What the hell does that have to do with anything? So because day9 can thank his brother for being who is today, we should forgive tastless for not doing his job correctly? Cmon!
i'm loving tastosis as usual, i'm just a big fan of their commentating but i'd like to see less advertising in general (handsomenerd, EG, MYM) and a little more insight about the players, how they do in ladder, some stats, experiences vs them, etc.
anyway keep the good work, your analysis is really nice and you still keep the stream fun, much love <3
I'd also be interested to see how the commentating went if they just set it to auto follow the korean observer's camera for the game so that they could focus on casting
On September 10 2010 17:23 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: If you really think they are supposed to do deep researches that they most likely don't get payed for as commentators then stop right there, I just can't share your opinion.
Also 90% of their audience couldn't care less about the fact where some unknown player was born, really.
Edit: In fact, they often gave information that interested me. Like that one 2000+ points player. I'm interested in that, as it concerns SC2. But whatever, everyones a critic nowadays ;P
They are unknown players becuse no one knows anything about them... Learning more about them makes them go from "random player XXX" to "Name player"
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know?
Take any sport and you will see that there are fans, who know a lot more about the theory and players than they "pros".
i doubt thats true for many sports but its certainly not true for sc/sc2. for every thousand people who claim to have a great handle on the strategy/thinking portion of the game, and they just happen to suck because they cant practice enough to execute their brilliance, theres maybe one who actually understands as much as he thinks he does.
Funny that this comes from the man that cant understand any other buildorder than "muttas to harrass and then ultras to throw at the oponent no matter what he gets" You are boring to watch, now go learn to play like a pro and stop trolling this thread.
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know?
Take any sport and you will see that there are fans, who know a lot more about the theory and players than they "pros".
i doubt thats true for many sports but its certainly not true for sc/sc2. for every thousand people who claim to have a great handle on the strategy/thinking portion of the game, and they just happen to suck because they cant practice enough to execute their brilliance, theres maybe one who actually understands as much as he thinks he does.
Funny that this comes from the man that cant understand any other buildorder than "muttas to harrass and then ultras to throw at the oponent no matter what he gets" You are boring to watch, now go learn to play like a pro and stop trolling this thread.
You are boring to read, go learn to post and stop trolling this thread. The fact that you would post something as absurd as this boggles my mind.
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know?
Take any sport and you will see that there are fans, who know a lot more about the theory and players than they "pros".
i doubt thats true for many sports but its certainly not true for sc/sc2. for every thousand people who claim to have a great handle on the strategy/thinking portion of the game, and they just happen to suck because they cant practice enough to execute their brilliance, theres maybe one who actually understands as much as he thinks he does.
Funny that this comes from the man that cant understand any other buildorder than "muttas to harrass and then ultras to throw at the oponent no matter what he gets" You are boring to watch, now go learn to play like a pro and stop trolling this thread.
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know?
Take any sport and you will see that there are fans, who know a lot more about the theory and players than they "pros".
i doubt thats true for many sports but its certainly not true for sc/sc2. for every thousand people who claim to have a great handle on the strategy/thinking portion of the game, and they just happen to suck because they cant practice enough to execute their brilliance, theres maybe one who actually understands as much as he thinks he does.
Funny that this comes from the man that cant understand any other buildorder than "muttas to harrass and then ultras to throw at the oponent no matter what he gets" You are boring to watch, now go learn to play like a pro and stop trolling this thread.
Was really good today, seems like are putting effort in improving. Artosos needs to stop bad mannering people by wishing them back luck. How bad would it look if the Korean commentators rooted against all none Koreans?
The one major thing I can think of right now is that Tasteless needs to keep the production tab open by default. The units tab is only useful before and after a critical battle, and even then it's only useful when the commentators are actively talking about it, because 1) most viewers probably won't pay too much attention to it if it just sits there 2) us SQ stream viewers can't actually make out the numbers, at least not if we're laying on the couch chilling. After the focus on the contents of the tab is done you should switch back to production, which is something you can leave on without really talking about it because it helps the more alert viewers follow what's actually happening beyond the interesting stuff that the camera is pointed at. It'll also make you seem very smart when you go into the guys base and point out the tech structure that was just started, without blindly looking for all that stuff throughout the game.
APM tab for entertainment and income tab to illustrate your point are always nice too, but once again useless if you aren't talking about them.
Anyway, easily the best casting combo and I think people who think otherwise are missing the point of these casts. Day9 is cool and all but do I really want to be taught how to play for 4 hours 5 days a week when all I'm looking for is players better than I? I'd much rather be entertained than getting schooled. That is one of the best things about pro SCBW, you're watching players who are so much better than you you'll never get close to any of them, you're basically watching gods, so all imba discussion and racehate and any learning process gained is invalid. You can happily be driven into a frenzy by Koreans yelling, and be entertained.
(And fuck husky/hd, they're not entertaining OR educational. Just annoying.)
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know?
Take any sport and you will see that there are fans, who know a lot more about the theory and players than they "pros".
i doubt thats true for many sports but its certainly not true for sc/sc2. for every thousand people who claim to have a great handle on the strategy/thinking portion of the game, and they just happen to suck because they cant practice enough to execute their brilliance, theres maybe one who actually understands as much as he thinks he does.
Funny that this comes from the man that cant understand any other buildorder than "muttas to harrass and then ultras to throw at the oponent no matter what he gets" You are boring to watch, now go learn to play like a pro and stop trolling this thread.
On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote: As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know?
Take any sport and you will see that there are fans, who know a lot more about the theory and players than they "pros".
i doubt thats true for many sports but its certainly not true for sc/sc2. for every thousand people who claim to have a great handle on the strategy/thinking portion of the game, and they just happen to suck because they cant practice enough to execute their brilliance, theres maybe one who actually understands as much as he thinks he does.
Funny that this comes from the man that cant understand any other buildorder than "muttas to harrass and then ultras to throw at the oponent no matter what he gets" You are boring to watch, now go learn to play like a pro and stop trolling this thread.
go back to playing in bronze league
I would if i where in the bronze division, im not however.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
They're better than HD/Husky by far. Day[9], maybe not, but their commentary does give a lot of insight into the current state of each matchup, beside all the screwy jokes
On September 10 2010 23:34 Bash wrote: Anyway, easily the best casting combo and I think people who think otherwise are missing the point of these casts. Day9 is cool and all but do I really want to be taught how to play for 4 hours 5 days a week when all I'm looking for is players better than I? I'd much rather be entertained than getting schooled. That is one of the best things about pro SCBW, you're watching players who are so much better than you you'll never get close to any of them, you're basically watching gods, so all imba discussion and racehate and any learning process gained is invalid. You can happily be driven into a frenzy by Koreans yelling, and be entertained.)
I can't agree there. I don't see day9 casts as schooling. However his knowledge of the games allows him to explain the whole strategy and tactics game of the pros. You can understand what they were trying to do even when their plan does not succeed.
Like in IEM where I think Morrow sent in one lonely hellion to make the opponent think he is going for hellion play and then teching something different. Day9 caught that and told the viewers and that little play made Morrow seem even more godlier than before. Where as Apollo missed that and even criticized Morrow for losing his hellion like that.
Sure Artosis has a nice understanding of the game, but he is commentating too subjectively to make it interesting for me. I like the objective approach of day9 more. I always enjoy when commentators give me the information and I can form an opinion, not the other way around.
I have put together a list of some of the major changes that will maximize the GOM broadcast using the collective knowledge of iCCup TV. Please go support it as I think these things would help poor Tasteless and Artosis in the long run and get Tastless back into top form.
On September 10 2010 20:27 floor exercise wrote: You guys are too critical. Tasteless is one of the only entertaining casters out there. He actually has a personality, he may not know everything but I'd rather listen to him talk about a video game rather than random asperger's inflicted caster #3235 who lacks the basic social skills to interact with other human beings, and thinks for some reason that means they can talk into a microphone
Tastosis is a fantastic duo
Sorry, but for the biggest tournament in this rather young eSport branch we dont need Crusty the clown, but rather a focus on the game and a serious discussion [excluding Artosis' constant whining about Terrans being OP]. If they continue the "we are silly to entertain" path they might as well get rid of the jackets and get some red noses, oversized shoes and as colorful clothing as they can get their hands on. Jackets = we are serious!
Personally I call the duo ARTLESS instead of Tastosis ...
On September 11 2010 00:50 SwaY- wrote: ITT People new to sc2 complaining about the best casters in the business.
it's like never watching a nba game in your life, you go see kobe at staples center and criticize his game. lol.
What exactly makes them "the best casters in business"? Do me the favor and enlighten me, because they arent showing their supposedly awesome knowledge of the game and only show an "entertainment value" which many people could provide.
Rabiator wrote: What exactly makes them "the best casters in business"? Do me the favor and enlighten me, because they arent showing their supposedly awesome knowledge of the game and only show an "entertainment value" which many people could provide.
This is something i would love to know also. No dubt they did some stuff for SC/BW (i was never a big fan i prefered the korean commentators even thou i dont understand a single korean word). What gets me off is that ppl trash other commentaries for stuff and when this duo does the same misstakes but even worse they get appoligised like "well they will get better" and "give them time" and my favourite "They are new to the casting".
On the other hand - I'd be interested how the casting would be, if they follow the Korean observer. Maybe test it once?
Regarding the "treat it like a job" comments. Those kind of contradict the "prepare for the games/players. Watch replays". I honestly doubt they would be getting payed for watching the replays & stuff. And I personally dont prepare stuff for my everyday job in my free time. (For special occasions like a presentation, sure, but not the 0815 stuff I do everyday).
So please decide what you want. "Treat it like a job" or "Research more". Or get GOM to pay them "research time" (or even compile the information about the players for them).
I like this Tastossis combo a lot, but being a big Tasteless fan I still have to admit I feel he is a bit unprepared. He seems to lack some basic knowledge about hotkeys and even some players. I mean, is easy to notice when you are used to his BW casting which was outstanding.
However I think this issues will improve vastly in the near future and I am sure we will see a huge difference in the next GSL tournament.
I have allways enjoyed Tasteless´s sense of humor and his epic quotes.
how exactly are they going to do research about players who don't speak English and aren't managed by teams that have PR that speaks English, and who are only talked about on Korean forums. i think some guys don't understand how closed the Korean community is to the foreigners because of the language barrier, also how many interesting facts can you dig up about a bunch of kids that have been playing a game for a few months, most of them being nobodies that never won a tournament and have no background in anything.
and does anyone here really think that OSL announcers did research on their own? im pretty sure they got served all the info they need to know about playstyles and player characteristics by teams (at least i read something along those lines on TL)
On September 11 2010 01:41 WiljushkA wrote: how exactly are they going to do research about players who don't speak English and aren't managed by teams that have PR that speaks English, and who are only talked about on Korean forums. i think some guys don't understand how closed the Korean community is to the foreigners because of the language barrier, also how many interesting facts can you dig up about a bunch of kids that have been playing a game for a few months, most of them being nobodies that never won a tournament and have no background in anything.
and does anyone here really think that OSL announcers did research on their own? im pretty sure they got served all the info they need to know about playstyles and player characteristics by teams (at least i read something along those lines on TL)
Cant be hard to have someone translate the info that the OSL team gets, not in an event of this magnitude.
Basicly the koreans try and milk as much money out of the non koreans as possible and at the same time gives us the finger. It is not uncommon in asia to do that. The "we are superior to everyone else" menatality in asia is HUGE. Yes you political correct muppets that think everone has a western mind can whine as much as you want about that but it is the truth. The 2 most racist countries in the world is Japan and south africa(i am not talking about the white ppl living there now) and then basicly most countries in the asian region.
On September 11 2010 01:41 WiljushkA wrote: how exactly are they going to do research about players who don't speak English and aren't managed by teams that have PR that speaks English, and who are only talked about on Korean forums. i think some guys don't understand how closed the Korean community is to the foreigners because of the language barrier, also how many interesting facts can you dig up about a bunch of kids that have been playing a game for a few months, most of them being nobodies that never won a tournament and have no background in anything.
and does anyone here really think that OSL announcers did research on their own? im pretty sure they got served all the info they need to know about playstyles and player characteristics by teams (at least i read something along those lines on TL)
Cant be hard to have someone translate the info that the OSL team gets, not in an event of this magnitude.
Basicly the koreans try and milk as much money out of the non koreans as possible and at the same time gives us the finger. It is not uncommon in asia to do that. The "we are superior to everyone else" menatality in asia is HUGE. Yes you political correct muppets that think everone has a western mind can whine as much as you want about that but it is the truth. The 2 most racist countries in the world is Japan and south africa(i am not talking about the white ppl living there now) and then basicly most countries in the asian region.
On September 10 2010 23:34 Bash wrote: Anyway, easily the best casting combo and I think people who think otherwise are missing the point of these casts. Day9 is cool and all but do I really want to be taught how to play for 4 hours 5 days a week when all I'm looking for is players better than I? I'd much rather be entertained than getting schooled. That is one of the best things about pro SCBW, you're watching players who are so much better than you you'll never get close to any of them, you're basically watching gods, so all imba discussion and racehate and any learning process gained is invalid. You can happily be driven into a frenzy by Koreans yelling, and be entertained.)
I can't agree there. I don't see day9 casts as schooling. However his knowledge of the games allows him to explain the whole strategy and tactics game of the pros. You can understand what they were trying to do even when their plan does not succeed.
Like in IEM where I think Morrow sent in one lonely hellion to make the opponent think he is going for hellion play and then teching something different. Day9 caught that and told the viewers and that little play made Morrow seem even more godlier than before. Where as Apollo missed that and even criticized Morrow for losing his hellion like that.
Sure Artosis has a nice understanding of the game, but he is commentating too subjectively to make it interesting for me. I like the objective approach of day9 more. I always enjoy when commentators give me the information and I can form an opinion, not the other way around.
Still nice to see them improving.
This is a dangerous path to follow because a commentator with a reputation like Day[9] or Artosis can bullshit as much as they want and as long as they sound confident in what they're saying, newbs will eat it up. A commentator who gives the fans what they want to hear is never going to be able to be as accurate as a commentator who is giving his honest evaluation of the game. So as long as you remain blissfully ignorant you can enjoy the casts of some bullshitter. But hopefully you can appreciate when a commentator is calling it like they see it. There's no way that a commentator can give you all the facts and let you decide for yourself. There's just not enough time. You may feel informed but in reality the commentator has told you about 10% of what has happened.
The biggest thing I would suggest is that he (and all casters) learn to use Follow (Ctrl+Shift+F). you get a nice smooth transition when you add/subtract/change the selected units you are following and you can always disengage it by clicking on the mini-map to jump or just hitting Ctrl+Shift+F again.
The times when Artosis gives us some player background is amazing. He is so accurate with calling people's styles. I find that amazing.
Other than that, I've been extremely disappointed with the commentary so far. Missed tech everywhere, mispronounced player names, mispronounced unit names, and just a general lack of urgency.
I'll just throw this out there too: When I was playing SC1 profesionally in Korea and my team would sit down to watch some games, my teammates would laugh at the things the Korean commentators said. There weren't jokes or anything. The calls that the commentators were making were just so bad that they were humorous.
Of course, they'd seem so bad only to very high level players. I'm sure that those commentators had learned what their audiences wanted to hear since they'd casted 1000's of games in their careers. So while everyone else thinks that the commentators are letting the audience in on some rare and valuable insight into the game, the players themselves are just rofling about it.
The thing is, GomTv should really get a guy to observe for the commentators. As Tasteless statted it, its really hard to move your camera arround / manipulate the counting station and comment on the game at the same time, you miss many things. Tasteless was much more focus on the commentary in the Gom classic.
On September 11 2010 01:41 WiljushkA wrote: how exactly are they going to do research about players who don't speak English and aren't managed by teams that have PR that speaks English, and who are only talked about on Korean forums. i think some guys don't understand how closed the Korean community is to the foreigners because of the language barrier, also how many interesting facts can you dig up about a bunch of kids that have been playing a game for a few months, most of them being nobodies that never won a tournament and have no background in anything.
and does anyone here really think that OSL announcers did research on their own? im pretty sure they got served all the info they need to know about playstyles and player characteristics by teams (at least i read something along those lines on TL)
Cant be hard to have someone translate the info that the OSL team gets, not in an event of this magnitude.
Basicly the koreans try and milk as much money out of the non koreans as possible and at the same time gives us the finger. It is not uncommon in asia to do that. The "we are superior to everyone else" menatality in asia is HUGE. Yes you political correct muppets that think everone has a western mind can whine as much as you want about that but it is the truth. The 2 most racist countries in the world is Japan and south africa(i am not talking about the white ppl living there now) and then basicly most countries in the asian region.
wait i get it now
you like hd/husky, well that explains everything
Husky, yes. HD, not so much. And the problem is what? oh yea i sorry i forgot this is TL where all new thoughts must go via a "pro" player to be of any worth at all. Same with the playing, if a random person does something awesome it is newbish and not usefull, if a pro does the same it is awesome and the ppl who cant even play them selves without copypasting every move the proes does will copy it like there was no tomorow.
Get a grip dude.
Tasteless has never been good IMO (IMO = In My Opinion). I did not like him in SC/BW and i do not like him in SC2. He is a great guy i like him as he is when he gets intervjued at random places but i do not like his castings. Simple. I am not worshiping anyone becuse they have a big name. Every person have to prove them selves to me to get my apriciation and tasteless has not done that. He is lacking a lot.
The only 2 casters i rly like is Husky and Day[9]. And guess what i am entitled to my own damn opinion, i dont need to follow the "YES!" sayers on TL to have an opinion.
I have seen to many fanbois here that it is actually scarying me a bit. I thought this place was a place for good players to talk, but what it is is a site for fanbois with no mind of their own. That prob cant even drink a glass of water without watching a Day[9] daily to see how he does it.
I prob get banned for this but whatever.
PS: i criticise husky A LOT, specially his total faliure with looking at the minimap. Just becuse i dont think i am bless when someones shadow is touching me dont mean i cant like or disslike something.
On September 11 2010 02:03 latan wrote: being a total noob in the scene i find it hard to believe how tasteless is such a casting legend.
Seconded. I watch a lot of my local sports team on TV (including USS D-2 teams) so I am used to low-budget, semi-pro commentary. But for guys being payed to commentate, I was very much underwhelmed. But I find their chemistry decent and prefer it than just watching w/o commentary, just confused as to why they are held in such a high regard my some people.
On September 11 2010 01:57 Chill wrote:...just a general lack of urgency.
I think this is the key. There is just far too much dead time in general, where Tasteless goes "...yeah.", and everything just stops for up to five seconds. I love the anecdotes, I love the humor, I love the friendliness... it's just lacking that zest most of the time.
They need to find a way to fill the times when there's not much going on outside of the bases. For instance, if, say, Day[9] sees a zerg player put down a gas before pool, he would talk about how the zerg expects an early reaper build and wants speed, and what he could transition into and why -- all during a lull in the action where there normally wouldn't be too much to say, and with an incredible amount of enthusiasm. Whereas Tastosis would just say "zerg getting an early gas..." as if it was the most boring thing in the world, trail off, and struggle to figure out something to continue with. Interestingly enough, I feel this was somewhat improved when TLO used his Hellion build, a build they knew of ahead of time.
It's almost like they're bored with the game until big battles are imminent.
Am I the only one that likes the jerkiness? I don't htink he shows ENOUGH of what's going on! None of it bothers me...
I think they massively overemphasize things though. For example, if Zerg loses maybe 4 drones when he's around ~25 harvesters, they'll say something like "oh, he's in huge trouble now! Zerg is SOOO far behind!" Considering it's acceptable to lose 2-3 drones from a harass oriented build, losing a few extra isn't huge. They overexaggerate everything. Also in the TLO game vs Cosira or w/e when the hellions were only at 6 kills they were talking about how they didn't think he could come back... of course you can come back you're not even THAT far in the shitter vs hellion openings losing 6 drones (definitely disadvantage) because you're typically pumping drones duringa hellion harass, not units. Although I admit once it got around 9 or however many drones it was looking a lot more dire.
I figured I might as well put what I put on the GOM forums over here.
iCCup.Diamond wrote After watching the GSL for several days I strongly feel there is some improvements that GOM can make to their broadcasts and I would like to point them out for you in hopes you read this thread.
First and foremost let me introduce myself, I am Patrick F Soulliere II, better known as iCCup.Diamond, the CEO of iCCup TV. iCCup TV is one of, if not the largest Starcraft II broadcasts networks in the world for Starcraft II. We have a network of over 20 channels and are considered one of the top channels for presentation value and quality of casts.
With that in mind there is a couple things I think the GSL is missing and they are the following:
1: Dedicated English speaking observer. The job to commentate is very hard and I understand as much as anyone. With all the great observer features in Starcraft II there is no reason that Tastless and Artosis should be controlling the camera for the stream. What you really need (especially in a tournament this large) is a dedicated observer. You can still have Nick's computer be the one shown on the stream, just have someone there to act as the primary observer. Tastleless can just at the start of the game just select the observer and let it follow his view. The great thing about this is both you can break the observers camera at any time if they see something being missed and also still click on what they like. I feel like Tastless is spending too much time worrying about being the observer and not enough on casting. There is no reason in a tournament this large that the casters should have to do this. This is the single biggest issue you have, and if need be hire and American that understands the game on a high level and get him there ASAP.
2: Production Tab. 99.99% of the time the production tab should be open. This is both beneficial to the casters AND the viewer. There is often 20+ things being made in a game of Starcraft II and it is beyond easy to things on both ends. The production tab allows both sides to see everything that is going on at all times. I have personally talked to Artosis about this and I have noticed him using it more. It should be the standard and up more often than not.
3: Zooming in and out. It needs to stop. It just throws everything off, and is only further distracts the casters. It was our single biggest complaint when we started and now we have a strict no zoom policy at iCCup TV, it should be the same for GOM.
4: The V button. The V button should more commonly be used on the stream. It allows the viewers to see what he players can see. EXTREMELY useful tool and needs to be used more.
There is some other things, but these are the main things that need to be addressed. One of our casters named Raelcun has made a caster tutorial and I think some of the points in there may help you guys out.
I am available for any questions or comments you may have. Artosis has my personal contact info, and my email is iccup.diamond(at)gmail.com. Replace (at) with an @.
Thanks for your time and I hope you see this!
I really think point 1 will smooth out ALOT ALOT ALOT ALOT of these issues personally.
If you agree please take the time to post on the GOM forums here.
To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
The worst for me is when something crazy is happening and I can actually hear the Koreans screaming in the background.
On September 11 2010 02:22 Chill wrote: To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
The worst for me is when something crazy is happening and I can actually hear the Koreans screaming in the background.
Double agreed. They need to figure out how to stop the Korean commentators from coming through the mic. It's SUPER annoying.
If you listen to Day9 closely you will notice his styles for doing his daily's and his style for live casting are very different. I for one am glad for this, as his style for daily's would not work very well for live events.
On September 11 2010 02:22 Chill wrote: To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
That's true, and it's something that I definitely don't have a problem with. I just used Day9 as an example of a way to keep the commentary interesting instead of nearly dying off -- there are definitely other ways to fill that potentially dead time.
On September 11 2010 02:22 Chill wrote: To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
The worst for me is when something crazy is happening and I can actually hear the Koreans screaming in the background.
Double agreed. They need to figure out how to stop the Korean commentators from coming through the mic. It's SUPER annoying.
If you listen to Day9 closely you will notice his styles for doing his daily's and his style for live casting are very different. I for one am glad for this, as his style for daily's would not work very well for live events.
Yea, of course. Day[9] is smart and can change his style easily. My comment isn't in reference to him. It's the people who cite "Day[9] would say this and this and this" without realizing that he actually would never say that in a cast like the GSL.
My Korean comment means it sucks because it reminds me how calm Tastosis are when I can hear the Koreans screaming in the background over the calm English casters.
iCCup.Diamond wrote After watching the GSL for several days I strongly feel there is some improvements that GOM can make to their broadcasts and I would like to point them out for you in hopes you read this thread.
First and foremost let me introduce myself, I am Patrick F Soulliere II, better known as iCCup.Diamond, the CEO of iCCup TV. iCCup TV is one of, if not the largest Starcraft II broadcasts networks in the world for Starcraft II. We have a network of over 20 channels and are considered one of the top channels for presentation value and quality of casts.
With that in mind there is a couple things I think the GSL is missing and they are the following:
1: Dedicated English speaking observer. The job to commentate is very hard and I understand as much as anyone. With all the great observer features in Starcraft II there is no reason that Tastless and Artosis should be controlling the camera for the stream. What you really need (especially in a tournament this large) is a dedicated observer. You can still have Nick's computer be the one shown on the stream, just have someone there to act as the primary observer. Tastleless can just at the start of the game just select the observer and let it follow his view. The great thing about this is both you can break the observers camera at any time if they see something being missed and also still click on what they like. I feel like Tastless is spending too much time worrying about being the observer and not enough on casting. There is no reason in a tournament this large that the casters should have to do this. This is the single biggest issue you have, and if need be hire and American that understands the game on a high level and get him there ASAP.
2: Production Tab. 99.99% of the time the production tab should be open. This is both beneficial to the casters AND the viewer. There is often 20+ things being made in a game of Starcraft II and it is beyond easy to things on both ends. The production tab allows both sides to see everything that is going on at all times. I have personally talked to Artosis about this and I have noticed him using it more. It should be the standard and up more often than not.
3: Zooming in and out. It needs to stop. It just throws everything off, and is only further distracts the casters. It was our single biggest complaint when we started and now we have a strict no zoom policy at iCCup TV, it should be the same for GOM.
4: The V button. The V button should more commonly be used on the stream. It allows the viewers to see what he players can see. EXTREMELY useful tool and needs to be used more.
There is some other things, but these are the main things that need to be addressed. One of our casters named Raelcun has made a caster tutorial and I think some of the points in there may help you guys out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LnVzl7AYC8
I am available for any questions or comments you may have. Artosis has my personal contact info, and my email is iccup.diamond(at)gmail.com. Replace (at) with an @.
Thanks for your time and I hope you see this!
I really think point 1 will smooth out ALOT ALOT ALOT ALOT of these issues personally.
If you agree please take the time to post on the GOM forums here.
Totally agree, and I think someone has made a thread about how to obs a game.
I sort of like their laid back style. A lot of casters have a habit of just saying nonsense when they start speaking really quickly and loudly. I imagine it's difficult do that and that same time remain cogent.
Many people enjoy the the korean casters' enthusiasm, but most of us also don't understand what they're saying. Like nony posted, a lot of it is laughable (I don't mean to imply that I understand korean or anything).
Let me preface these comments by says that today's casting was a great improvement.
Much smoother camera control; Production Tab open a lot more; much less zooming in.
I come to SC2 with no prior knowledge of SC:BW - I didn't play it and I never watched a cast of it. I have, however, watched a LOT of SC2 casts - I'd say 90% of the tourney's since early Beta.
Throughout Beta there were a lot of posts and comments in stream chats and IRC about Tasteless and his SC:BW castings. So I came to the GSL Tourney with seriously high expectations of his casting and was disappointed to be honest.
I take on board all the previous comments in this thread about both casting and camera control being problematic, but I honestly feel he could have done a lot better.
This GOM TV gig has been on the cards for a long time. As soon as KeSPA lost their rights and GOM were given them by Blizzard the rumour mill has been working overtime on this board about Tasteless getting a casting contract with GOM. Tasteless himself alluded to it a few months ago - so it came as no surprise to me that he became their English Caster.
He seems to have been woefully under-prepared.
Unlike some, I don't expect a full bio of every player in the 64, and maybe he didn't know he was going to be the camera operator on the first day - BUT he did know he was going to be casting SC2 and he does know that it's his job to cater for all levels of players including complete newcomers to the game who may have only been playing for the month since retail.
It is important to me and (I assume others) watching the 640 x ?? HQ or SQ stream is what we can actually see of the game. I have paid for the HQ and can only just see the food numbers at 150% stream size - if I blow it up to full screen the pixelation is too much and the numbers are unreadable - it's the same for the unit numbers.
By his own admission Tasteless (and I believe Artosis) plays/ladders on extremely low graphic settings - and advised us to do the same when playing. As a result Tasteless has seemed mesmerised by the graphics on the Ultra setting, and doesn't appreciate that we cannot see those gorgeous graphics on the same 24" monitor he has. Of course, it's nice to zoom in on nice map features at the beginning of the game when there is little play - but I for one don't need to see an extreme close up of the Colossus splash damage on a bunker, when a) we can't actually see that splash damage anyway and b) it's very useful to know what the defending player is doing to defend his base!
Time and a place for Zoom - the midst of battle is not the time or place in my opinion.
It might be useful for both Artosis and Tasteless to watch one of the recent VODs of their casts - just so they get an idea of the stream quality we are watching!
Once Tasteless knew he was in charge of the camera he should have learned and practised all the observer hot-keys. I'll bet you that he knows all the player hot-keys for all the races - he just needs to put in a bit of time learning the Obs ones. At worst he could have a post it stuck to the side of the monitor with them listed!
Today was day 6 and he still didn't know even the basic ones - that I'm afraid is just not good enough. This is a big gig - the biggest SC2 competitor in the world - and I expect the basics to be covered.
Finally, I appreciate that he's casted and played SC:BW for 11+ years and, is still in SC:BW caster mode BUT, he should have the names of the SC2 units and structures memorised by now - It's no use giving newcomer advice about mules and sinking Supply Depots and then continually talking about Dragoons, Lurkers, Sunken Colonies and Stasis Fields - this is very confusing for a new player. This is a minor irk though.
Overall I really like the Tasteless & Artosis team, but there are one or two areas that could be improved.
Tastless - if you ever read this; please take this in the way it's been meant, as constructive criticism to hopefully enhance my enjoyment of your casting.
On September 11 2010 02:22 Chill wrote: To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
The worst for me is when something crazy is happening and I can actually hear the Koreans screaming in the background.
Double agreed. They need to figure out how to stop the Korean commentators from coming through the mic. It's SUPER annoying.
If you listen to Day9 closely you will notice his styles for doing his daily's and his style for live casting are very different. I for one am glad for this, as his style for daily's would not work very well for live events.
Yea, of course. Day[9] is smart and can change his style easily. My comment isn't in reference to him. It's the people who cite "Day[9] would say this and this and this" without realizing that he actually would never say that in a cast like the GSL.
My Korean comment means it sucks because it reminds me how calm Tastosis are when I can hear the Koreans screaming in the background over the calm English casters.
For sure. Most people that have never casted before don't realize the little things like this. I'm glad you pointed it out.
Yeah. Sort of interesting in GOM Season 3 they have to move the English booth because Tasteless was too loud. I like the more laid back style personally, he still gets excited when need be but I don't have to turn down my speakers before every major battle now !
On September 11 2010 02:22 Chill wrote: To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
The worst for me is when something crazy is happening and I can actually hear the Koreans screaming in the background.
Double agreed. They need to figure out how to stop the Korean commentators from coming through the mic. It's SUPER annoying.
If you listen to Day9 closely you will notice his styles for doing his daily's and his style for live casting are very different. I for one am glad for this, as his style for daily's would not work very well for live events.
Yea, of course. Day[9] is smart and can change his style easily. My comment isn't in reference to him. It's the people who cite "Day[9] would say this and this and this" without realizing that he actually would never say that in a cast like the GSL.
My Korean comment means it sucks because it reminds me how calm Tastosis are when I can hear the Koreans screaming in the background over the calm English casters.
And as soon as they star screaming like the koreans, this forum is gonna be flooded with ppl complaining they shouldn't scream like that hehehehehe
On September 11 2010 02:22 Chill wrote: To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
The worst for me is when something crazy is happening and I can actually hear the Koreans screaming in the background.
Double agreed. They need to figure out how to stop the Korean commentators from coming through the mic. It's SUPER annoying.
If you listen to Day9 closely you will notice his styles for doing his daily's and his style for live casting are very different. I for one am glad for this, as his style for daily's would not work very well for live events.
Yea, of course. Day[9] is smart and can change his style easily. My comment isn't in reference to him. It's the people who cite "Day[9] would say this and this and this" without realizing that he actually would never say that in a cast like the GSL.
My Korean comment means it sucks because it reminds me how calm Tastosis are when I can hear the Koreans screaming in the background over the calm English casters.
And as soon as they star screaming like the koreans, this forum is gonna be flooded with ppl complaining they shouldn't scream like that hehehehehe
It's true - You can't win in the cold game of video game nerd commentary The best you can do is just barely lose.
On September 11 2010 02:28 CTStalker wrote: I sort of like their laid back style. A lot of casters have a habit of just saying nonsense when they start speaking really quickly and loudly. I imagine it's difficult do that and that same time remain cogent.
Many people enjoy the the korean casters' enthusiasm, but most of us also don't understand what they're saying. Like nony posted, a lot of it is laughable (I don't mean to imply that I understand korean or anything).
Yeah, gotta agree. Man, all the bitching about artosis/tasteless, yeah its def not perfect at the very start of sc2 gom tv but I really really enjoy it <3
On September 10 2010 07:09 The Vortex wrote: I don't think Tasteless has done his homework on SC2. I think by the time the GSL finishes he will have it down. Husky and HD have been doing a great job from the start!
Seriously? He's still playing random so he will know all of the match ups, and probably because he likes randumb . Yeah it's not as in depth as Day9, or as honky as husky's but Jesus LOL.
I havn't been watching gomTV, but I think this is an okay-good example of hype and awesome shout casting. Good shout casting can make a boring game look amazing, and bad shout casting can make an amazing game look boring.
Lets be honest, Tastosis on day 1 was excruciating... i felt like I was watching a hdh youtube video, but just add in a fuckton of awkward silences and pauses. it was pretty bad
BUT I can understand 100% how hard it is to do what they are doing, and ALOT of the awkwardness comes from having to follow around the korean commentators, and having camera / sound men who cant communicate with them.
now, a week later, they have vastly improved, and gotten used to their situation. They fill time better, they are more comfortable and funny, and have improved a ton with the camera, and this is only going to get better...
By the start of GSL open 2 Tastosis will be the standard that other live event caster will try to live up to.
On September 10 2010 21:04 Hider wrote: It is without doubt IMO the commentators job to analyze the game. And a part of analyzing the game is knowing something about the players. Obv. you cant know a lot about random korean players, but tell me their ranking on the ladder or something like that. And regarding the more famours players, I dont think it would be too much to ask if they watched a couple of replays of them so they knew how they typically played the MU.
ladder rank doesnt matter anything... if you are top 1 or top 10 diamond, it can be miles and miles apart in skill level.
They do talk a lot about OGS, Werra, Prime clan etc etc. They were talking aout Spunky from OGS and what he did before being coach/manager of OGS when a OGS player was playing. They bring a lot of inside info that us foreigners dont know much about (unless you are *really* reading forums/stuff for hours and hours).
Obv. you dont understand the word anything. Wanna bet there is a correlation between the skill of player and their number of ladder point??
On September 11 2010 02:03 latan wrote: being a total noob in the scene i find it hard to believe how tasteless is such a casting legend.
Seconded. I watch a lot of my local sports team on TV (including USS D-2 teams) so I am used to low-budget, semi-pro commentary. But for guys being payed to commentate, I was very much underwhelmed. But I find their chemistry decent and prefer it than just watching w/o commentary, just confused as to why they are held in such a high regard my some people.
See, this is what people are talking about when they say "take it seriously, act professional". Yeah it's fine for people who know who Tasteless is and where he came from to listen to him tell jokes for 2 hours, but it has nothing to do with what is expected of any kind of sports commentator. he does give that feeling of "it's like talking to my friend" conversation, but only if you've been following Starcraft for years. New people have no point of reference, and it's jarring. We're trying to grow e-sports here, right?
Also, although I agree with Noony for the most part, I gotta disagree with him on the idea of commentators as reporters/journalists. I think as casters they are expected to fill this role to a degree. No, I don't think they have the time or ability to interview everyone in the Ro64, but they should at least prepare. Not knowing who is playing that day, on top of not knowing how to use the interface or even the correct terms to use, is very disappointing to me as a sports fan in general and an e-sports fan in particular. Tasteless has not improved from back when he was that pro guy with the cool insights that came up to the commentator booth at the one tournament a long time ago. Either that or he improved and regressed and I just missed it, but I watched most of the GOM tourneys with SDM, so I don't think so.
I hate to say it because it's like -100 cool points or whatever, but if I wanted to get someone with no RTS background into watching SC2, i'd probably direct them to HDH before Tasteless/Artosis. HDH is far from ideal and do some things that still irk me, but they're actually a lot closer to "real" sports commentating (which is also often inaccurate in terms of in-game knowledge) than Tasteless currently is.
Last night seemed like an improvement, so we'll see. Not every game can have TLO though.
I don't think I can or even will advice him on his commentating. I just think he does a really nice job in making the games entertaining to watch (Which is their primary mission).
Only one thing, which has already been mentioned, they should really get a professional observer and not be allowed to obs anything else themselves. This will: 1: Allow tasteless to focus on what he is supposed to be talking about 2: Make both ONLY talk about what the viewers see on the screen.
On September 10 2010 06:59 Snowfield wrote: I was so dissapointed with the casting when they missed two BC rushes in a row, first game they didnt even show us the starport.
I think they do a decent job, but keep the production tab up, press V if you want to see the players perspective if you wonder if he saw something or not, dont go to his FP view, and try to pay closer attention to the builds, as that's what's the most interesting
Artosis: you have to stop talking about SCBW, stop saying "we can see this is a scbw player" as you rip on everyone who wasn't a scbw pro, this is a new game, don't go on about scbw things. Also, stop talking about what you would've done, it's really unprofessional and it's not giving us any more information about the game that is going on, never talk about what he should be doing, just talk abotu what they are doing and what direction they could go in, when they take another direction then what you thought, stop talking about the other direction and focus on the direction the game is currently going in.
edit: also, you can't blink stalkers to teh island on scrap station, this was patched ages ago.
also; the handsome comments about you both can get a bit much.
I don't think you people know what you want. You refer to husky and day9 as being somehow better casters but then you say that tastosis are still fun to watch, I don't get it. If someone for his first time tunes in to a soccer match, assuming he knows nothing about the rules or how the game flows, there is very little chance the commentator is going to explain what the rules are during the game, so many people watching socces for years till don't know what offside is. Granted soccer and sc2 are two different things, I think tasteless and artosis are trying to play of each other and don't go into these mindboggling, super-complex strategies because let's be honest no1 gives a shit and you can never predict 100% what the person is going to do. I also don't really see the point of telling us what the possible build follow-up could be for certain player in every single game, that just gets too repetitive. I also do not want them to try and imitate koreans, it just doesn't fit in with their images. Some people are making comments about their humor, sorry to burst your bubble but day9 also has a running joke about him not wearing pants while casting sc2, oh yeah that's infinitely more funny. I also do not understand the whole buzz about APM, I really don't. On korean stream they often show players APM in the beginning of the game... what's the point? All these folks have is 6 workers and 1 command center/nexus/hatchery I don't give a shit about their APM at this moment. Frankly I don't even want to know their final APM, the result is what matters. All these apm and production tab things are left for replays so that you can figure out exactly what's happening, during live games it's impossible to follow everything, and there should be no attempts to be everywhere at the same time. That being said, yes they should use these tools but not overuse them just because some of you want that. Lastly someone mentioned background checks? Lol, I don't know how you are gonna do a background check of people who don't speak your language first of all, and most of them just come from the ladder, they are not pro's. And I actualy like the information artosis provides about some of the players because he has played them on the ladder or talked to them before, so I don't even know where you guys are getting that "they are unprepared" shit from. Obviously there are things that can be improved on, and 2 major ones atm are the camera control + the whole zoom in zoom out thing and the names of units/spells from BW instead of SC2.
On September 10 2010 06:59 Snowfield wrote: I was so dissapointed with the casting when they missed two BC rushes in a row, first game they didnt even show us the starport.
I think they do a decent job, but keep the production tab up, press V if you want to see the players perspective if you wonder if he saw something or not, dont go to his FP view, and try to pay closer attention to the builds, as that's what's the most interesting
Artosis: you have to stop talking about SCBW, stop saying "we can see this is a scbw player" as you rip on everyone who wasn't a scbw pro, this is a new game, don't go on about scbw things. Also, stop talking about what you would've done, it's really unprofessional and it's not giving us any more information about the game that is going on, never talk about what he should be doing, just talk abotu what they are doing and what direction they could go in, when they take another direction then what you thought, stop talking about the other direction and focus on the direction the game is currently going in.
edit: also, you can't blink stalkers to teh island on scrap station, this was patched ages ago.
also; the handsome comments about you both can get a bit much.
They are doing an awesome job overall, I could use a few less jokes from tasteless though he's awesome just the way it is, the match is still the most important thing. Some people are complaining about Artosis comparing Sc2 to bw and how he talks about what the players could be doing, I disagree with the complaints and I think it is very educational talking about possible scenarios and I also think that comparing the 2 games is realistically UNAVOIDABLE.
I had posted earlier in the thread a lot of the constructive criticism's that have been rehashed over and over. I'd just like to add that I thought last nights cast (day6?) with TLO was a very solid improvement. You could tell they have read the feedback from here and gomtv.net. They were very prepared discussing the players and their strategies and overall it felt very professional.
Great improvement keep it up guys, I would not take any other casters over Tastosis.
On September 11 2010 07:00 fnaticAugury wrote: Tasteless is definitely better than Day9/HD/Husky and when you add in Artosis, they're in a completely different league.
Not to mention people outside of TL can actually stand listening Tasteless, which can't be said for Day9, sadly.
Good thing that's only your opinion. Since when do people speak for other people? ._.
On September 11 2010 02:22 Chill wrote: To be fair, I don't want something like Day[9]'s in-depth explanations casting the GSL. That has a place in his dailies and no place (for me) in something like the GSL. I prefer closer to Tastosis' style.
The worst for me is when something crazy is happening and I can actually hear the Koreans screaming in the background.
Double agreed. They need to figure out how to stop the Korean commentators from coming through the mic. It's SUPER annoying.
If you listen to Day9 closely you will notice his styles for doing his daily's and his style for live casting are very different. I for one am glad for this, as his style for daily's would not work very well for live events.
Yea, of course. Day[9] is smart and can change his style easily. My comment isn't in reference to him. It's the people who cite "Day[9] would say this and this and this" without realizing that he actually would never say that in a cast like the GSL.
My Korean comment means it sucks because it reminds me how calm Tastosis are when I can hear the Koreans screaming in the background over the calm English casters.
And as soon as they star screaming like the koreans, this forum is gonna be flooded with ppl complaining they shouldn't scream like that hehehehehe
It's true - You can't win in the cold game of video game nerd commentary The best you can do is just barely lose.
You were always a winner in my book Chill. (And DJWheat loved ya )
The most important thing to improve is the observer control. If this is not possible, please let the koreans do it to give you some room to breathe. This was one thing i loved about the very smooth bw observers. Please bring that back.
I wont commentate on the commentators. They are both great guys. Tasteless, please be the "Storm Observer" once again. Feel the game. Commentate with your heart. That's what we love about you!
I feel like a lot of people laying down heavy criticism are new players who have not seen tasteless cast a bw game. I feel like they aren't even giving them a chance, and blindly rejecting them.
I sincerely hope that from all of these complaints and tips, Tastosis are able to sift through the haters and find something useful.
In my own opinion I think that:
- Zooming in can be used, but at times can be annoying - Brood war references are very effective if explained to the new viewers - Observation tools could be used more frequently and naturally - Player builds are explained well, and key alterations are caught and commented on (gas before rax for example)
Like a lot of people have been saying, the production tab is super important, or at least an overlook of their bases every once in a while. I remember both those BC rushes were missed until the Terran actually had the BC close to the opponents base. The fusion core shouldn't be that hard to spot.
Either way, Tastosis are great, you just need better observing, sticking a bit more to what's happening in the game and perhaps a bit more enthusiasm.
On September 11 2010 07:44 Jayson X wrote: The most important thing to improve is the observer control. If this is not possible, please let the koreans do it to give you some room to breathe. This was one thing i loved about the very smooth bw observers. Please bring that back.
I wont commentate on the commentators. They are both great guys. Tasteless, please be the "Storm Observer" once again. Feel the game. Commentate with your heart. That's what we love about you!
I would like to also emphasize the best thing I found from the korean cast (since I don't speak korean and besides the yelling) is the observer control. In fact the great observer control is what made it so great despite not knowing the language!! Check economy every now and then, don't miss tech path, use player POV, get a nice scan of the battles, also maybe have another go-to phrase besides "WHOAAA" that is a bit more descriptive? Such as "STORMUUU!!" ? :D
Kind of thought about it and i have to say i really, really like how the casts go. It's pretty informative of actual strategies, there are some jokes in, they seem to come up with new things to say everyday (i mean they don't use the same phrases all the time) and overall can keep the comments coming even when there are few things to comment. If i had to say something was wrong, i would like to see more of the overlay thingie used more. When i last watched it was mostly production tab and rarely anything else.
On September 11 2010 08:30 Chill wrote: Ah I listened to the more recent casts today... I was almost a week behind I think. It's getting so much better.
I like to propose a technique to improve up on the already awesome job you 2 are doing.
a tension building technique in observing, right before a drop or some game changing event ganna happen, for example right before a DT drop, or right before 2 force engage, the observer switches the 1st player's first person views, and then 2nd player's first person view, and when the event takes places and the fighting and killing starts you switch back into observer view.
and the reason this build tension is to emphasize on what each player don't know but we as the audiences have perfect information on. This technique is widely apply in many movies, for example Jaw, the shaq is comming, camera shows the victim carelessly doing their thing, and then zooms in the shaq with the stalking music, and then the kill scene.
PS. oh this would be great scene for burrow moving roaches to get in position right before the fight
On September 11 2010 07:18 Pufftrees wrote: I had posted earlier in the thread a lot of the constructive criticism's that have been rehashed over and over. I'd just like to add that I thought last nights cast (day6?) with TLO was a very solid improvement. You could tell they have read the feedback from here and gomtv.net. They were very prepared discussing the players and their strategies and overall it felt very professional.
Great improvement keep it up guys, I would not take any other casters over Tastosis.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. I am now looking forward to the finals being cast by them. If they keep improving at the rate they currently are... well, I'm hyped.
The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
In short: act more professional, please. Getting paid doesn't make you a professional - your conduct does.
I think Tasteless fills a similar role that JP does: the one who commentates the majority of the action, follows the flow. Artosis should be interjecting more about the strategy rather than going on about some small talk. Sure, especially at the start, have the little joke or whatever but don't drag it out. Make it very brief.
I'd like to see Tasteless take the reigns, and then bring in Artosis more. Pre-game, post-game, rather than it sounding like a conversation between friends (which Artosis never seems quite comfortable letting someone else just talk, but whatever) try and make it so that the main commentator - Tasteless - is positioning and setting things up for Artosis to knock it out of the park.
Tasteless should frame the action, Artosis should tell us how the players got there mentally and where we're headed. Try not to be too negative:
I don't know about this strategy - as opposed to - I don't like this
or
He's in a lot of trouble - as opposed to - it's definitely GG here
Maybe in general try and make Artosis sound more humble, or if that's not the route you want to go then try and make sure Tasteless deliberately leaves a situation for Artosis to come into the action, raise his voice (he does this really well, something that makes the cast much much much better to watch) and then blast away for a little.
Just some thoughts IMO; don't take them to heart or anything. You guys are obviously doing really well already, or you wouldn't have been offered a job.
On September 10 2010 14:19 Ndugu wrote: ME and my friends watched the Idra game and we were all laughing at loud at how terrible the obsing was. IT was so bad it was almost like a joke-- I really hope they get a hang of it. The casting itself was subpar, tbh
Basically through this post you are admitting that you've only watched one game! The obsing in that game was so bad because of a technical error, and it was never even close to that bad ever again. Why are you coming into this thread and expressing your opinion when you've only bothered to watch one game?
Because I only watched one game due to how bad it was
Since having been informed it was due to a technical error, I've broadened my horizons. Still very dissatisfied with the casting though, to be honest. Seems to lack any kind of actual excitement.
I thought the casting was pretty awfull But i've only watched game 1 TLO and Idra vs ....... No excitement at all and alot off uhhh uhhhh uhhhhh. Also missed alot of things.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
Yes. I agree with JWD, I know you two,[tasteless +artosis] are gamers first but I'd really love you guys to improve on your casting. When listening to you two casting during the actual game, I feel like you guys are so drawn into the game and admiring the gameplay as GAMERS, your casting and anaylsis are really...murky, frivolous and depthless. What I'd prefer and possibly other people would like is that instead of just pointing out obvious things, possibly talk about the implications of X, Y, or Z. Talk about what could happen, etc. A good reference would be Day9's casting. I wish you two the best and I really hope your castings improve.
edit: Use the tabs to your advantage! Switch between tabs! APM/Production/Army/Income! Use them to your advantage. Finally I think what JWD said hits the spot, do your homework and you guys could be great!
edit2: just watched both versions of TLO vs LosirA game 1 and my honest opinion is I rather watch the Korean cast over the English. With the Korean cast[i dont understand Korean] I know at least that I get to see all the action. In comparison to the Korean cast, the English cast is not that active. In the Korean cast, the camera is always moving showing everything about the game, whereas the in the English one, Artosis and Tasteless, I feel, more times than not get too complacent and stay in one spot. Best of luck.
I posted earlier in this thread with a lot of complaints similar to others (not noticing important things, bad use of new observing features etc). I doubt they're actually reading through 20 pages worth of mostly the same stuff (interspersed with childish rants), but I thought I'd say that, IMO, the observing has improved. The last couple days I haven't noticed anything that the casters haven't, and facility with the tabs etc has drastically improved. Nobody can talk for several hours, often with no action, and not say dumb things occasionally, but I think my main criticisms have mostly been addressed. So I'm satisfied, and I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off for the service (at least I wouldn't if some zergs stayed in =\)
A couple of things I'd still like to see more of: 1) More use of player view (to resolve "did he see it?" questions). 2) More use of the income tab. I know others seem to advocate production, but I can't see it easily on the screen -- when income is up, I can easily see worker disparity, which is hard to tell when the camera is mostly on the battles. 3) I like the more in-depth strategic discussions, particularly based on what one player sees. IE, player X saw A and B, which probably indicates C or D as a followup. Therefore, he should react to that by making E. Again, this is personal preference, and new players might not enjoy it, but those are the conversations I find most interesting.
In any case, I think things are improving, so keep up the good work.
In the AnyproPrime vs NEXHansin match from today due to a technical error Artosis ended up having to control the observing. It was considerably better IMO, no offense to Tasteless, but Artosis' use of the Tabs was definitely far superior. I'd actually recommend having Artosis observe all games.
Edit: Things have improved, and I bet by Season 3 of the GSL they will be awesome at casting/obsing. I think the thing is that Tasteless and Artosis are both more used to doing commentaries and/or recorded casts - in other words they can go over a game multiple times and have a good idea of everything that is happening ahead of time to the commentary. In live casts you don't have this luxury, and really its a skill neither of them have really had the opportunity to practice, so naturally it will take a while for them to get good. Overall I am not disappointed with the casting for the most part, just the obsing - both have improved, and I expect to see it keep getting better.
In response to those commenting on lack of excitement, to be honest most of the games have been relatively standard / not exiting play, its difficult to make something boring sound exciting as a commentator.
Blizzard should implement a feature that automatically cycles through the tabs every 'x' seconds until broken by a caster selecting a specific tab, similar to how 'view player camera' is automatic until the observer decides he wants to see specific things.
they don't need to know every player in the 64 match tourney. They have increasingly gotten better, and I have to say I thought they were horrible the first day. As I keep watching them improve it makes the matches more exciting and increases anticipation for the ro32, 16,8, its gonna be so sweet. Geez, so many whiners on here who probably suck anyways. tasteless' commentary in SC1 was one of the best, there should be no doubt he can replicate it when he has time to improve.
It's improving (or I'm getting used to it ^^), but just one suggestion - when finding some free time, just to review the games they've casted. Not particularly for identifying their own casting mistakes, but also to understand those games well and further study the players' styles and the usual strats we've seen. It would help to get a better connection with the audience. Moreover, many of these progamers will come back in next GSLs, and then Tastosis can say - aha, remember the killer looking guy, the little Flash with the twitches. And they can remind us what we've seen before from these players and build a consistent image about them. It builds up some hype & excitement. Artosis already tries his best to do this, and overall it's getting better.
its only the round of 64, remember, most tournaments only cast from round of 16 onward. There is bound to be unknown players and un-exciting play. Wait til we get further in the tournament and you'll all say "wow you guys have really improved!"
I didn't have the time to watch much of the last broadcast, but I noticed how the quality of the observer was a lot better when they had technical difficulties and Artosis' screen was being broadcasted instead of Tasteless'. He was actually looking around their bases to see what they were doing as well as clicking on them, had the production tab open etc. Now as I said, I didn't watch much beyond that, so I wouldn't know if Tasteless did that as well. However, if that wasn't the case, perhaps they should have Artosis do the observing instead.
I don't understand why GOM is using commentators to do the observing camera, the Korean commentators in BW leagues don't do that, instead they usually have an ex-progamer to do the observing. Commentating at a high level is difficult enough already as a profession, nevermind having to watch the multitasking of two players.
Just hire a damn dedicated observer instead of saving money and having Tasteless do it. Also Tasteless was never the most methodical and analytical commentator, he is well liked due to his personality, if anything. Artosis is the one who usually goes into in depth details about build orders, etc, and he should continue to do that to complement Tasteless. But yea stop zooming in, it doesn't do anything for people who actually play RTS games properly, we rather see the different tab informations like APM or production queue etc or even the mini-map.
Concentrate more on the mini-map please so you don't miss out, whoever is doing the observing next time.
My only complaint for Tastosis is that they don't know what to say during a battle. Tasteless usually says "Here we go!..." (I think he needs to say this less, btw) before a battle, but they seem to forget that they're s'posed to be commentating as the battle plays out. It doesn't even need to be anything detailed either. Just showing some excitement while giving a play by play would be good. I think this is the area that is most lacking currently.
On the other hand, I love their shtick between battles because it sounds natural to them (and it's pretty funny a lot of the time).
Overall I think they're doing a pretty good job, it just seems that they're not quite comfortable getting excited during battles, and their play by play (ie when they're not joking around, explaining or analysing, but just stating what's going on) is a little stale (example is looking into a players base, having trouble finding anything to mention then saying "Probes just mining away here in X's base"). I think that they also need to get comfortable with short silences in the meantime, because sometimes filling them with pointless information does less for the audience than just a 5 second silence.
But it's mostly just a matter of practice and getting comfortable with all aspects of commentating, not just the comedy/analytical part. Keep it up Tastosis!
First of all people, you cant expect the commentators to get you hyped over the unknown players. Tastosis can joke ( and they do it, cause they are NOT familiar with the players IT IS FIRST GSL!!!! ), but they cannot make the games better. So far there were only a bit more than handful of top notch games. It's not a Flash vs Jaedong match where they would be hyped like OMGBBQ.
We dont know players, they dont know players. The same goes with expectations, etc.etc. They do excellent job at entertaining you while at the same time trying to to get acquanted with each player and their styles. Its the begining and most of you should give them the benefit of the doubt before starting judging and critisizing.
Wait for the quarter finals, and you ll see how different it will be from now. The people who critisize Tastosis for having no passion, or speaking too calmly, or not reacting that much are pretty much all wrong. The expectations of games will go up as more better players will play each other, and Tastosis will feel the mood of great games, and therefore will try better.
I didnt see all the GSL games, but in their commenting of Grand final of BW WCG 2009 was REALLLLY awesome.
Just want to throw it out there. I love your commentating, it's improving with experience every day, your obsing is fine and constantly improving also.
Another week or two of this, you'll be full blown professionals.
Keep it up, I haven't missed a live game yet. =)
Edit: Only thing that has crossed my mind is that Artosis is at times a little over-critical of players' mistakes. Nothing major, just something to keep an eye on. Perhaps I am just used to the day9 style of (sometimes very creatively) somewhat defending errors, even if they're fairly huge.
Lol tasteless' obsing of the Ensare game right now is just god awful. He's just following hellions and roaches around in the middle of the map the whole time. Although both the casting and obsing have been improving as of late. But it gets annoying not seeing what's going on in players' bases for long periods of times.
Artosis' obsing was waaaay better during the technical difficulties, no offense to Tasteless but Artosis just does a much better job of navigating between key points of interest instead of just following 1 or 2 units across the map. I would rather see him as the regular cameraman.
Don't mean to sound harsh, overall really enjoying the casts :D $20 well spent.
tastetosis, you guys are doing great. use the player vision function more, and, if you guys have played against one of the players, go into further depth on their style and their unique tendencies as newly emerging players in the sc2 scene. after watching the GSL of late I cant stand to watch husky or HD's videos, so keep up the good work.
I've seen all but 1 game... and to be honest, it's better than Husky and/or HD.. might not be saying much but it's not as bad as people are saying it is...
I know Day[9] is a friggin' pro at it, and Tasteless is his brother, but he comes like one notch below
Personally, i love their casting, especially their comedy
To begin with, I wasn't very impressed with the commentating. But as of late, their style has really grown on me. The casual banter filling in the down time, mixed with the high-ish level of analogy that doesn't get to a point where a non-sc2 player is left clueless is spot on in my opinion.
I've definitely seen the improvement even though the GSL has only been going for a short time. I enjoy the chemistry between the two.
Question: is there a reason for only two commentators? I think having a 3rd can really open the dynamics, and can make the slow times much easier to entertain through.
Keep up the good work guys... another $20 well spent here.
On September 14 2010 20:23 Keitzer wrote: I've seen all but 1 game... and to be honest, it's better than Husky and/or HD.. might not be saying much but it's not as bad as people are saying it is...
I know Day[9] is a friggin' pro at it, and Tasteless is his brother, but he comes like one notch below
Personally, i love their casting, especially their comedy
Honestly I prefer the more laid back, humorous commentating style they have together. Their cheesy jokes have made me rofl on several occasions and the commentary is incredibly entertaining, which is the point for me. There's just enough game knowledge supplemented by artosis to round it out.
I know I'm blasphemous and probably alone, but I prefer it to Day9. I don't really need a starcraft 101 lesson, and 'Tastosis' are the perfect fit for funny comments mixed in while I'm already following the direction of the game. I fully expect to be struck down by the Day9 gods, but I can only be told something is a 'huge blunder' or 'the most standard thing in the world' so many times.
My own constructive criticism: - Artosis, and to a lesser extent Tasteless, should try to mention bw less than they currently do. While I don't mind it too much, my impression is that a good number of people watching GSL didn't follow bw too much (if at all) and they'd rather not hear about bw so often. - Tasteless should almost never zoom in on units or buildings. I noticed he does this a lot to highlight an important tech structure, but I think mentioning it and clicking on it is enough. Zooming in overdoes it with the focus.
Other than that, you guys area doing a great job. My brother and I often stay up until 3 or 4 a.m. to watch GSL. You guys are very funny. Please don't change that
I think today is proof that Tast and osis read the feedback they're getting, since their casting was considerably higher quality today than previously (though I always thought they were doing a great job). They've improved in every way, Production tab is almost always open, no more random zooming in (though you can see Tasteless' struggle against his instincts to do that!), more analysis. Sure they got a little bored during the more boring moments of the more boring games today but that's understandable.
Considering that it's still ro64 and the quality of games isn't exactly the highest it could be, and the fact that they're doing this almost every day and for hours, I doubt there is any other caster duo that could maintain this kind of entertainment value every day. Too many people are comparing this genuine regular live content to one-off casts of ro16 and up games, pre-watched replays and semi-scripted youtube casts. This is as good as it gets in this setting folks.
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote: The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
Yes this spot on. Hype the match, tell us about the players. I remember the Terran vs Idra, when they hyped the match abit with his ghost play. More of this with every new game.
I also much rather listening to korean commentator in brood war, even though I dont know 1 word of korean. The emotions these casters can get through, and the great camera control is so professional.
On September 10 2010 06:43 godzillathrilla wrote: Overall I feel you're doing an excellent job for just starting
haha he's been doing this for years >.<
but i agree that tasteless professionalism seems to have slipped with the sc2 transition. we was a much better commentator with BW, which was a game he knew far more about.
On September 14 2010 20:42 Blind wrote: - Tasteless should almost never zoom in on units or buildings. I noticed he does this a lot to highlight an important tech structure, but I think mentioning it and clicking on it is enough. Zooming in overdoes it with the focus.
If there's nothing else going on, I really don't see the problem with this. Especially when he just does it for a second.
I feel that tasteless is a great caster and commenter but should work on not saying "um" so much. It really slows the commenting down and does get distracting. Its not something that will change in a few days but I hope he works on that. Other then that good stuff, you guys are really funny together.
Also I would like to say that Artosis is a surprisingly solid and funny commenter. I seen some of his solo work and noticed compared to this that he really feeds off of other people's energy making him 10x better then alone.
I feel that people think that Tasteless was a lot better back in SC1 is because before him there was never really a good English commentator. So everyone treated him like a God. Now their are quite a few good commentators and are no longer in awe of English casting. But Tasteless is still a amazing commentator.
Tasteless and Artosis have done a great job! They're thoroughly entertaining. Tasteless can sometimes seem simple minded but it's endearing. I was watching today's stream and Tasteless commented on himself being dyslexic, I joked to my friend, 'No surprise there'.
I love the banter, Tasteless adds the humour and excitement and Artosis is there with decent insight and summaries of the players.
Possible improvements for me would be:
More details on the players. Sure as someone pointed out this could be GOMTV's fault however Artosis and Tasteless are now a part of GOMTV. If one part of the team forgets or screws something up, it's good to pick that up for them and if it's too much work then maybe just to suggest they help out with it for the next season.
You know what? Anything past that is purely pedantic. Great casting guys!
On September 15 2010 00:03 Tevinhead wrote: This thread is crazy.
Tasteless and Artosis have done a great job! They're thoroughly entertaining. Tasteless can sometimes seem simple minded but it's endearing. I was watching today's stream and Tasteless commented on himself being dyslexic, I joked to my friend, 'No surprise there'.
I love the banter, Tasteless adds the humour and excitement and Artosis is there with decent insight and summaries of the players.
Possible improvements for me would be:
More details on the players. Sure as someone pointed out this could be GOMTV's fault however Artosis and Tasteless are now a part of GOMTV. If one part of the team forgets or screws something up, it's good to pick that up for them and if it's too much work then maybe just to suggest they help out with it for the next season.
You know what? Anything past that is purely pedantic. Great casting guys!
It's hard to define improvement. What is perfect casting? I feel they cover all the necessary bases and that things that people might feel 'should' be improved are their negligible flaws that give their casts so much more character. There are no GLEAMING flaws in their cast and for the most part it's very entertaining.
On September 15 2010 00:28 Tevinhead wrote: It's hard to define improvement. What is perfect casting? I feel they cover all the necessary bases and that things that people might feel 'should' be improved are their negligible flaws that give their casts so much more character. There are no GLEAMING flaws in their cast and for the most part it's very entertaining.
Well, there's a clear difference between "casting casually on a lievstream account" and casting games for money in a huge tournament, and i feel they should really strive to become better, because right now their still just two people casually casting games and not really putting a real effort into it.
You should always strive to get better, and when you miss that a guy is making battlecruisers twice in a row, you're not trying hard enough.
The OP and several posters has valid points, which would all improve them as casters, so why not do that?
The latest games you can really see that they have taken pointers from this thread, like keeping production tab up, not zooming so much, moving their screen slower etc, that's a good thing.
You don't have to immediately come to their "defense" just because some guys says what they think would make them better casters.
I'm sorry that I didn't specify. This thread is crazy, not necessarily the OP but some of the expectation and criticism here is way OTT and a lot of it certainly not fair. I'm very laid back so for me to post more than what I did would feel pedantic. I'm not saying valid points haven't been made. I'm more throwing a curve-ball here on opinion.
'like keeping production tab up, not zooming so much, moving their screen slower etc' - Agree to those being good things. A discussion thread for me evolves as the pages fill up, barring a few posts people start to come to conclusion through reading opinions. So I was just throwing out the other side of the story.
In the paragraph you just quoted I think I was more jumping to my own defense. =P
I think it's very hard to commentate while controlling the camera... But saying they don't have a future as casters, and comparing them do hd and husky......
I'm loving the commentary, with time it'll only get better.
Tonight's gsl cast was pretty bad towards the end when tasteless kept cutting artosis off. (4th game end especially)
I think artosis and tasteless need more synergy going on. Casters need to pass the mic(not literally) back and forth with respect, but tonight tasteless was pretty much off the wall with "uh" and "um", and artosis didn't get any words in at all.
Tasteless also has a habit of interrupting people talking with 'yea', 'i totally agree'. It usually derails artosis, and it also happens in other events like sotg(episode 7) or the gomtv classic.
I like their casting, just need to add more professionalism. Maybe say Nick instead of tasteless or whatever ^^. I liked the jackets and stuff. I like their jokes and they make fun a bit, but it should get a little bit more serious and less like your talking about your favourite game with your buddies having a beer. But it got better during the round of 64.
Really not to take away anything from them I really enjoy watching them.
Best casters around, bar none, these guys are Pro's they know their stuff and they have a sense of humility about them. They seem like normal guys with decent crack. The jokes add to the entertainment of the games which some are actualy rather boring (davit) for example.
Some people just like to moan about anything, not sure if its jelousy or not but artosis and tasteless are class and the games are that much better with them casting.
Not sure if anyone posted this. But too me it seams like "Epleptic Probe" that Tasteless finds very funny, Not sure if he knows its only Patrol next to the probe and he flips out :D'
Artosis and Tasteless are much better players than Husky and HD but Husky and HD are better casters than they are.
In real sports the athletes the men who actually play these sports usually make for outright lousy casters, sure they know exactly what is going on but casting is not just about knowledge its also about making the game EXCITING because that is the entire point of the casters, they need to make each game feel epic, important, big, exciting, HD especially is very good at ramping it up when things get really fast and furious, he makes you feel like you are watching some grand FINAL programer match between Flash and Jaedong.
He puts people "over" and makes you care, he calls the action in such a way that everybody can follow, if you really care about "knowledge" then Day9 has his own daily show where the entire purpose is to analyze games more further and nobody does that better than Day9.
If you care about tactics, knowledge etc in real sports you read in depth collums and shows dedicated to that stuff for the more hardcore crowd, but casters are first and foremost have to present the games as something truly exciting
Tasteless is trying to become a better observer. He keeps mentioning during the casts that he's trying to improve, and that he's getting lessons from the korean observer when he can. Personally, this is all I want. I like Tasteless' personality already, and if keeps working on the technical things, he'll be amazing to watch.
I think he's getting better but Tasteless really needs to start viewing from the players views to see if / when they spotted something, he's often saying "did he say that, I don't think he saw that?" yet there's an option right there to tell if they did / didn't.
He will get better with time - there's some good tools at his disposal (personally, I think Blizzard could've even added more but oh well) I'm still enjoying it.
There's too much to say, so I'll try to abbreviate:
- they're both funny, nothing wrong with a little humor during slow moments - be a bit more objective about the players, and maybe be a bit more informed about their bg? - learn ALL the various tabs, and the hotkeys for said tabs. I'm a casual player and even I know a LOT of the hotkeys
And my biggest gripe so far was...PoltPrime vs oGsTop game 1; why the hell were you looking at nothing of real interest/importance while Polt's ENTIRE FRIGGIN ARMY got decimated in the middle of the map? And I didn't hear any comments from either caster/commentator about said hugely important and decisive battle.
That last bit just grinded my gears like none other, but I'm still looking forward to seeing more from Tastosis at GSL
I notice they are getting alooot better with their casting, their humor and style works together very well. It feels like they are "life partners" which is a good thing! KEep it up and I'm enjoying it very much!
Anyone knows how the korean casters are able to speak nonstop and how do they move from one caster to another so smoothly? Do they use some kind of cues and what are they looking at on the screens? words typed out by the producers ?
On September 19 2010 12:45 Crt wrote: Anyone knows how the korean casters are able to speak nonstop and how do they move from one caster to another so smoothly? Do they use some kind of cues and what are they looking at on the screens? words typed out by the producers ?
I'm probably wrong, but I've always had the impression that they watch teleprompters for their cues of when to switch off to one another.
In regards to the nonstop speaking, I think that has more to do with the fact that (for me at least) most korean commentators sound the same (mostly) and so we the English speaking viewers just think that it is the same person going on and on and on for hours at a time--I think that it is multiple people more often than we think.
1. They need to stop looking at each other too much 2. Learn more about what the korean casters are saying, and try to incorporate these in their casting. 3. Be more objective, less bias. 4. Be more dramatic like the korean casters or husky and HD 5. Continue to talk about players' history 6. Less silly/personal jokes.
they are great commentaries and I think they're only getting better I love when they finish sentence in the... exact... same... sandwiches ps tasteless saying something like "lidless guy could blink more than those stalkers" is the best SC joke I've heard so far : )
My few tips and observations(after watching some of the past SC1 stuff and all of the GSL)
1) Keep working on the professionalism. This has improved a lot from the beginning. Don't let it totally crimp the personal style though. 2) Keep some bias but tone it down a bit. 3) The camera work has improved a good amount. Keep working with the Korean camera man as much as you can. 4) It appears that you guys are sometimes the last to find out about anything (changes in the broadcasting). Make some stronger efforts to make those more transparent. Highlighting a technical difficulty is different though. 5) Try not to suffocate to the fog machine!
I think they are improving. I bashed tasteless in this thread a few days ago, so fair is fair, and I should come and complement them now. Tasteless saying that he's been working with the korean obs guy is pretty cool of him too.
I think maybe since the games are getting better that's helping a lot with the quality of the casts as well.
Tasteless would be even funnier if he didn't have to observe too. I'm frankly impressed he still manages some humor with such a demanding role as observer.
Yo! I noticed! Tasteless' obs has gotten way better. Less jittery.. I mean shit, I remember him from BW. Was like watching a man with a seizure obs BW. I even remember the first few from GSL, I was annoyed. Now, the last few times I had no gripes, which means I enjoyed it very much.
As for commentary, o, keep working on it and find your flavor guys. The obsing though, really deserves a thumbs up for improvement. Although Artosis' passive aggresive shots at terran make me wanna slap him. Still, he can be cute too. I dunno, maybe if I didn't hate his GSL games so much... but I did =(.
On September 19 2010 12:54 Crt wrote: 1. They need to stop looking at each other too much
Why? it adds personality to the cast.
On September 19 2010 12:54 Crt wrote: 2. Learn more about what the korean casters are saying, and try to incorporate these in their casting.
Who cares what they are saying? this is just going to be a distraction, they need to follow the battle their own way, they may have better or worse insight, depending on the moment.
On September 19 2010 12:54 Crt wrote: 3. Be more objective, less bias.
It's not that bad now - but that's an ok request I spose.
On September 19 2010 12:54 Crt wrote: 4. Be more dramatic like the korean casters or husky and HD
Are we watching the same streams here? Huskys jokes utterly destroy my soul, I'm sure he's a nice guy and he knows Starcraft but please, these 2 are doing a great job with the drama.
On September 19 2010 12:54 Crt wrote: 5. Continue to talk about players' history
Agreed
On September 19 2010 12:54 Crt wrote: 6. Less silly/personal jokes.
On September 19 2010 12:59 IAttackYou wrote: Major lol@ all the people coming here from youtube. Do they even know that Artosis and Tasteless have been doing this as a job since 2005 O_O
I'm 'from youtube' and I think they are doing a great job.
I just don't like the forum lingo used in the cast. "SUP." "WOWOWOWOWOWOWW" "L-O-L" I think Artosis said "SUP" more than 10 times in one day of casting.
Its a bit hard for them to talk about strategies of players and such because so many of them are unknown, in the 2nd GSL i'm sure the info on players will have improved.
One thing i always liked about korean commentary, is they rotate between speakers (their speakers have different roles, ie one is trategy, one is background/history, one is to fill in the gaps.)
They also use times where nothing is happening to review all of the bases to see whats going on.
The one criticism i'd have is: Should be rotating through the different tabs every 30 seconds, and going back to the production one every 2nd time. That way it gives a nice format for talking about certain things. And you won't miss an upgrade as you'll see it pop up, hence a prompt to go and look at it.
Omg What would be my day without Tartosis jokes. Those 2 are perfect as they know how to entertain and make you laugh and smile while watching sc2. When they cast 4 sets of bo3 a day, and when people watch them, they can't be 100% seriouse, analysing stuff, explaing complicated stuff, it needs to be fun to watch and entertaining so the public can sit relax and enjoy watching 3 hours of sc2.
And really, their jokes are epic to a point i really can't describe. Tasteless and Artosis are the funniest casters i'v ever heard.
Hope they don't start getting all seriouse and stuff.
Omg What would be my day without Tartosis jokes. Those 2 are perfect as they know how to entertain and make you laugh and smile while watching sc2. When they cast 4 sets of bo3 a day, and when people watch them, they can't be 100% seriouse, analysing stuff, explaing complicated stuff, it needs to be fun to watch and entertaining so the public can sit relax and enjoy watching 3 hours of sc2.
And really, their jokes are epic to a point i really can't describe. Tasteless and Artosis are the funniest casters i'v ever heard.
Hope they don't start getting all seriouse and stuff.
The usual not-so-smart response. You need to pay attention to detail, because he reqested LESS JOKES and not NO JOKES like you are talking about. The casting duo is - sometimes - extremely silly and they are trying to complete each others jokes.
I have a comparison from watching my two nieces and some of their friends. Whenever there is a group of them playing together they often become extremely silly and that reminds me of a group of sharks in their feeding frenzy when there is an injured fish in the water. My nieces / The sharks totally forget about everything around them and for Tasteless and Artosis it is sometimes the same when they are in their "joking frenzy". That needs to stop ... which does NOT mean they have to stop telling jokes at all, just the excessive joking has to stop.
On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote: I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like; "Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player" "Sure is dude, sure is" "Haha, yeah, it is" "Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
Their chemistry is a wonderful thing. Also I can't believe my ears/eyes when you say Hd/Husky is better than Tasteless... Those guys literally have no knowledge of the game in comparison.
Though I agree with you that the preparation of the casting has been poor, for example Tasteless not even knowing spectating/replay hotkeys and such.
I enjoy their commentary, and I think that are doing a decent job. But I think there are a few things that can be improved quickly. A lot of it seems to point towards problems with preparation, which shouldn't be the commentator's fault. I would think it's the production team's fault, but that's my opinion from the outside peeking in.
A few times there's been confusion about who's computer is being broadcasted. A quick run-through before the day's matches will fix that easy. Come on production crew step up your game.
Player information is rather lacking, the player's favorite unit tidbit is a clear attempt to fill up time. Don't the organizers have players fill out a quick interview sheet or something. If they don't they really should. Questions like toughest match up, or opinions on laddering could easily be more entertaining than "he likes banelings".
Sure the a good number of the players are rather unknown, and Starcraft 2 is a game that's only been out for less than 2 months. But all these players played and won a good amount of games to even make it to the round of 64. Where are those replays? Have someone go over those replays and at least have a little bit of insight in to strategy and play style. Does the player favor mech or bio? Didn't drop a game against zerg yet? Seems to have trouble transitioning to 3 base play?
And on a final note... I question the wisdom of allowing commentators to compete in the tournament that they are casting. Feels so unprofessional and I think it harms the quality of the broadcast. I would think that it is hard to commentate 4 best of 3 series, but to put on top of that playing in one of them? How can anyone be expected to do either one to the best of their abilities?
The commentating has improved greatly from the early casts in the tournament. I still think there are some things that can be improved, but it is light years better than what I watched from them in other events.
edit - the zooming is terrible though. It looks great on their comps but horrible on everyone else's.
There is a problem when they speak over each other at the sametime.
They should just decide to let 1 person call the action when battles engage and or rotate it every game.
I remember back when sc2gg had multi commentaries they all let klazart call the actions parts and it made alot of sense without 3 guys trying to shout over each other.
im going back to the BW forums and i dont even play BW and i play sc2 everyday... but seriously this thread is just sickening. Comparing youtube wannabe's to the original shoutcaster....
i understand why the elitists hate the SC2 forums so much now.
LoL at HD and Husky know more than Artosis/Tasteless...
literally have never been so offended by this site.
..........In my opinion, everything is fine. The casts are amazing. The games are sometimes good. The obs are okay, though it's hard to cover all the mini battles on the map. .........Here is how to not get dizzy from those quick scrolling stuff in sc2 "play more FPS"
On September 19 2010 16:28 mnofstl007 wrote: I have officially lost all faith in this site...
im going back to the BW forums and i dont even play BW and i play sc2 everyday... but seriously this thread is just sickening. Comparing youtube wannabe's to the original shoutcaster....
i understand why the elitists hate the SC2 forums so much now.
LoL at HD and Husky know more than Artosis/Tasteless...
literally have never been so offended by this site.
whats your problem? whats wrong with this site? this site is perfectly fine. the only thing that bugs you is that people have different opinions. If you don't like to talk about it then don't. Just go away. No need to come post a completely rude and off topic post just to flame at everyone else.
On September 19 2010 16:28 mnofstl007 wrote: I have officially lost all faith in this site...
im going back to the BW forums and i dont even play BW and i play sc2 everyday... but seriously this thread is just sickening. Comparing youtube wannabe's to the original shoutcaster....
i understand why the elitists hate the SC2 forums so much now.
LoL at HD and Husky know more than Artosis/Tasteless...
literally have never been so offended by this site.
whats your problem? whats wrong with this site? this site is perfectly fine. the only thing that bugs you is that people have different opinions. If you don't like to talk about it then don't. Just go away. No need to come post a completely rude and off topic post just to flame at everyone else.
because the quality of posts/threads on this site was 10000000000000000000000000x better 6+ months ago.
seriously how can anyone compare youtube heros with their 13 yr old fans to actual casters...
Artosis/tasteless need to start posting on youtube because apparently thats how you get fans and considered "good".
Seriously i LOVE this thread full of 1-100 post users (ya my post count isnt High..but i trolled these forums for 3-4 years before i ever posted...cause my knowledge of pro-level sc:bw was little to none, but i loved reading what actual gosu's posted.) saying
"ZOMG Husky and HD know more than Tasteless and Artosis!"
.... seriously makes me want to cry... and then i remember, o wait this is the internet.
On September 19 2010 16:28 mnofstl007 wrote: I have officially lost all faith in this site...
im going back to the BW forums and i dont even play BW and i play sc2 everyday... but seriously this thread is just sickening. Comparing youtube wannabe's to the original shoutcaster....
i understand why the elitists hate the SC2 forums so much now.
LoL at HD and Husky know more than Artosis/Tasteless...
literally have never been so offended by this site.
you actually got offended by a thread on a forum? your life is fucking depressing mate.
and elitists are just people that think their opinion is more important than others, ie douchebags like you.
Part of this is opinion and personal preference, ie. which casters you enjoy the most, but saying Husky/HD know more about this game than Tasteless and Artosis is just horribly, horribly wrong.
On September 19 2010 18:23 Orome wrote: Part of this is opinion and personal preference, ie. which casters you enjoy the most, but saying Husky/HD know more about this game than Tasteless and Artosis is just horribly, horribly wrong.
Artosis made it into the GSL. Tasteless was in the HDH. They might not be the "best", but they know their stuff better than 95% of the people on these forums unlike Husky and HD. They know their stuff. Case closed on this. End of discussion between the knowledge of the 4.
Now all that needs to happen is Tasteless can be a bit better obsing and we have gold.
Wow. . .how can anyone stand and bash Tasteless and Artosis. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of constructive criticism but what the hell is with all the hate. Maybe there's just to many new people. . .maybe they don't understand what people like Tasteless and Artosis have done for the starcraft community. Perfect casting doesn't come overnight I'm sure that they're working hard at it. If you don't like their casting then watch someone elses. Just show some respect for people giving you free content and insight.
On September 19 2010 16:28 mnofstl007 wrote: I have officially lost all faith in this site...
im going back to the BW forums and i dont even play BW and i play sc2 everyday... but seriously this thread is just sickening. Comparing youtube wannabe's to the original shoutcaster....
i understand why the elitists hate the SC2 forums so much now.
LoL at HD and Husky know more than Artosis/Tasteless...
literally have never been so offended by this site.
you actually got offended by a thread on a forum? your life is fucking depressing mate.
and elitists are just people that think their opinion is more important than others, ie douchebags like you.
actually "mate", my life isn't depressing at all.
People who think they have ANY idea what someone else's life is like because they read a single thread on a forum is retarded "mate".
Id rather be an elitist than a retard "mate".
btw my opinion IS more important than yours to me, cause your opinion is retarded "mate".
(btw i spoke in australian so you could understand me "mate". I assume you say mate a lot since you posted this post once on Tl.net that said mate. I bet you surf everyday and see kangaroos on your drive to school, since you live in australia! ITS AMZING HOW MUCH I KNOW ABOUT YOU FROM READING ONE OF YOUR POSTS!)
Their casting is fine, their slight bias some games, personal jokes and Lingo all add to the fun. It wouldn't be interesting to watch if all they were doing was talking about what's happening in the game. I can already see that.
Guess what people!! If you don't like their casts you don't have to bitch about it and post it on TL!! just don't watch it! There are millions of people who enjoy them like I. So Piss off!
On September 19 2010 18:38 backtoback wrote: Guess what people!! If you don't like their casts you don't have to bitch about it and post it on TL!! just don't watch it! There are millions of people who enjoy them like I. So Piss off!
<3 it haha...
"Piss off" is so fun to say, especially when you do this >:O with ur face.
On September 19 2010 18:23 Orome wrote: Part of this is opinion and personal preference, ie. which casters you enjoy the most, but saying Husky/HD know more about this game than Tasteless and Artosis is just horribly, horribly wrong.
Artosis made it into the GSL. Tasteless was in the HDH. They might not be the "best", but they know their stuff better than 95% of the people on these forums unlike Husky and HD. They know their stuff. Case closed on this. End of discussion between the knowledge of the 4.
Now all that needs to happen is Tasteless can be a bit better obsing and we have gold.
tasteless was in the HDH ?
erm... tasteless has casted at blizzcon, WCG and the past gomtv tourneys, he's also played broodwar in WCG afaik.
they're veteran RPG pro's.
hd and husky are just a couple of new school guys who started amateur SC2 casts on youtube during the beta.
somehow this thread went from tactful suggestions for tasteless as he acclimates to sc2 casting to a a comparison of him to lesser commentators.
for those new to the world of competitive starcraft -you will be hard pressed to find two more knowledgeable casters than tasteless and artosis. hd/husky, albeit respectable in their own right, lack the depth of understanding possessed by the former.
so please, if you have no suggestions opt-out of posting.
I actually disagree with OP - I would rather have Tasteless switch vision a lot more often, I personnally like to see everything that's happening, and although it's normal to stick on a specific unit when it's doing something particularly interesting for a bit, my impression is that they both then start to comment on it etc and the observing suffers - once the interesting part is over, talk about it but keep obs'ing the other things happening.
Also I do believe the best tab to keep open generally is the Production tab - they do have it on regularly but I have to say, you can clearly see they're not used to it as it often takes them ages to notice what's building (I remember one of the latest GSL games where Zenio - I believe - started going nydus and they noticed it after about 1 min of it being on their screen on the prod tab).
That being said, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the commentating and the insight that they bring, and they're both great - just saying what I think they could improve .
i think the casts have made some incredible improvements and i cant imagine anybody having legitimate complaints with the casting/commentating ive read some of the recent criticism and it just seems like nit picking, almost like they're inventing reasons to dislike tastosis i cant imagine who they prefer over these two because the job tasteless/artosis are currently doing is phenomenal IMO
I purchased the season ticket 60% because of tasteless and artosis casting it. their doing a great, great job. the only thing that could be better is catching important upgrades/techs at the right time, which is probably the hardest task anyway.
On September 19 2010 20:13 Meatloaf wrote: tastosis made me laugh.
In the Idra Ro64 match there were really issues with the camera not pointing at all where anything was happening for at least 5 minutes.
yeah they had the stream on the wrong observer, who i think was afk, then when they fix it you notice a chance of gamma and stuff and the camera starts working properly and has english words instead of korean stuff, thats when they changed to tasteless's camera
Don't know about the obsing, but please stop saying "oh my god" and "wow" 16 kajilion times per game. Please. "Tastosis" knowledge of the game is clearly the best of any commentators out there, but their lack of vocabulary when describing in game events is really irritating. I've actually noticed this with every American commentator (especially Day9); the tendancy to overuse the same phrases over and over when something exciting is happening. It makes the play-by-play part of commentary much worse than the admittedly brilliant analysis.
So yeah, i have no problems with the rest of it, just please stop saying "omg wow" all the time and it'll be close to the best esports commentary i've ever heard (<3 Joe Miller).
On September 19 2010 18:23 Orome wrote: Part of this is opinion and personal preference, ie. which casters you enjoy the most, but saying Husky/HD know more about this game than Tasteless and Artosis is just horribly, horribly wrong.
Artosis made it into the GSL. Tasteless was in the HDH. They might not be the "best", but they know their stuff better than 95% of the people on these forums unlike Husky and HD. They know their stuff. Case closed on this. End of discussion between the knowledge of the 4.
Now all that needs to happen is Tasteless can be a bit better obsing and we have gold.
tasteless was in the HDH ?
erm... tasteless has casted at blizzcon, WCG and the past gomtv tourneys, he's also played broodwar in WCG afaik.
they're veteran RPG pro's.
hd and husky are just a couple of new school guys who started amateur SC2 casts on youtube during the beta.
Tasteless even beat Day[9] in the HDH, but both got invited due to their fame and not their super high quality as a player.
Ugh... I hate when players compare quality casters like Tasteless (Who gets paid to cast, and makes a good living at it) to crap casters like Husky.
Husky reminds me of Dennis Miller when he was casting Monday Night Football; talked like he kinda knew what was going on, but he very obviously didn't, and sounded like an absolute idiot most of the time. That's Husky.
HD is pretty solid actually, but if he didn't have Husky weighing him down he would probably be invited to cast bigger tournaments. I know a LOT of players who refuse to have Husky cast they games cuz they just don't like him.
I really don't get the hate for Husky, his casts are entertaining to watch, which is what sports casting is generally about anyway. He's spread the word of Starcraft since Broodwar all over Youtube and has probably drawn in a lot more spectators and players to Starcraft 2. That's an achievement he should be proud of, not many people have done that and he's been a really big boost in trying to help E-Sports out of Korea, gathering spectators for various tournaments and showing people what Starcraft is really like.
So, props to Husky. Tastless does exactly the same thing, but rather than Youtube he's been doing it for years on GOM and other places, both are very entertaining casters and I enjoy watching both of their casts. Tastless, your obsing has definately got a lot better from last week anyways! I can actually work out what's on the screen even on the low quality stream now, where as before you where whizzing around so fast I never really got a focus on any of the numbers.
My biggest problem with tasteless is that he say things like "OMG OMG OMG OMG" when there is action happening on the screen without adding any context. He needs to use his words and not just spam the audio channels.
Hes gotten alot better as an observer, but he still loves zooming in on random parts of the map while missing important tech. Additionally, when he trys to predict what is going to happen, hes almost always wrong. Artosis is so on top of these games so much that it makes up for tasteless. Hes very insightful and full of useful information
I think they are both doing a great job so far considering the english side of the tournament seems less then prepared. Remember, these guys are doing A LOT of casting and they have tons to think about at any given time. As these tournaments go on their only going to improve.
Currently it seems like they are both putting more effort into making the tournament easily accessible and fun too watch then making it hardcore SC2 analysis. Eventually they will find a balance but for now just enjoy it because they are trying to bring this game we all love to a larger audience.
Keep up the great work guys, I look forward to watching your casts and they are an awesome part of my day!
They improved a lot after all the begining critisism. But after that the obsing have gone worse. (missing dark shrine...) I really think tasteless needs to focus on obsing first, let artosis talk more. (and stop cuting artosis when he begins to explain a move like : A : wow that battle, I really liked when he moved his zergling to f.... T : OH YEAH? AWESOME, AWESOME MOVE, this player is SO GREAT And they he goes on a rampage of sooooo greatness and so awesomeness when artosis tried to explain WHY it was awesome.
I'm being critical, but I still really love their casting overall, just pointing where they could improve. And I still wake up every day to watch the stream.
I was cheering for IdrA until I realized that the longer IdrA stays in the tournament, the more I have to hear Tasteless constantly reminding everyone that he is in EG and making statements that have no substance other than "IdrA is EG, I am in EG" lol.
Don't get me wrong I love the guy but man how many times did he have to mention it jeez.
The main things I'd like to see are:
1) Improve professionalism (less bias, more controlled silliness)\
2) More proficient use of the observer tabs to illustrate a point being stated
3) Dress: I think you should either dress up and try to look really professional, or wear your handsome nerd shirts and just look like gamers. Right now wearing some random blazer with a tshirt underneath is neither professional nor a 'gamer' look.
4) Keep working on getting more information about the players (even if it is completely unrelated to SC2, it would be cool to know more about these guys i.e. do they have any other hobbies, any interesting stories about them / their personality) It helps for the more general / mainstream audience to relate to players and be more involved
5) Keep up the great work and keep at it! I've seen tons of improvements already and we are still only halfway through the RO32. You guys are getting better each cast and by this rate Koreans will be learning English just to enjoy the beauty that is the tastosis GSL coverage! glhf!
On September 20 2010 02:27 Reason.SC2 wrote: I was cheering for IdrA until I realized that the longer IdrA stays in the tournament, the more I have to hear Tasteless constantly reminding everyone that he is in EG and making statements that have no substance other than "IdrA is EG, I am in EG" lol.
He still says it 2-3 times per cast even with Idra out of the tournament. But I guess that is better than him plugging the handsome nerd every 5 minutes.
I think the best tip I can give tasteless is to check a bit more about people's tech. Sometimes he misses a vital tech structure and then it's like SURPRISE BATTLECRUSIERS, or something like that.
On September 20 2010 02:27 Reason.SC2 wrote: I was cheering for IdrA until I realized that the longer IdrA stays in the tournament, the more I have to hear Tasteless constantly reminding everyone that he is in EG and making statements that have no substance other than "IdrA is EG, I am in EG" lol.
He still says it 2-3 times per cast even with Idra out of the tournament. But I guess that is better than him plugging the handsome nerd every 5 minutes.
I don't know how they get away with that tbh, I am sure a broadcasting station would never allow personal advertising if they knew about it, but I'm pretty sure the Koreans have absolutely no idea what Tasteless/Artosis are actually saying
Overall its good now , they Ironed out the Obsing issues they had before.
only thing GOM need now its VODs in HD and i'll subscribe ASAP and sure Tasteless and Artosis could be more professional at times , but theres no "book of style" of esports casting so theyre doing quite well in the whole IMO , though you can see they run out of arguments at times , theyre casting for 4 hours a day so thats quite a lot more than a normal tv show.
And of course it would be great seeing them SUIT UP for the Ro16!!
Did tasteless just say in the TLO g1 that BC was bad against thors? And how did he miss the nuke production? IMO it kind of annoys me that he never looks in the base of the players.
On September 21 2010 03:21 Hider wrote: Did tasteless just say in the TLO g1 that BC was bad against thors? And how did he miss the nuke production? IMO it kind of annoys me that he never looks in the base of the players.
He said thors were bad against BC's which is true. ^
On September 21 2010 03:21 Hider wrote: Did tasteless just say in the TLO g1 that BC was bad against thors? And how did he miss the nuke production? IMO it kind of annoys me that he never looks in the base of the players.
The sad thing is he doesn't even need to look in the players bases.
Just put up the production tab from time to time.
Aside from a few missed tech building, units, I still find their casting entertaining, but there's still room for improvement
Tasteless working as cameraman is so bad atm. He has no clue what to look at, it all seems so damn random. Every now and then you should look at bases to figure out what the fuck is going on, atleast do this when there is not much action going on. Go look at base and discuss whats going on, or what is not going on.
There is only one complaint i have left. Please adjust your seats so your heads are both at the same height haha. It just sometimes looks like tasteless is this small guy sitting like a troll beside artosis xD
everything is great except when theres a crucial tech structure missed, it seems to happen pretty frequently (both battlecruisers and void rays last night iirc). maybe keeping the production tab open would help? i do enjoy the commentary despite this though.
On September 20 2010 01:36 MrCon wrote: They improved a lot after all the begining critisism. But after that the obsing have gone worse. (missing dark shrine...) I really think tasteless needs to focus on obsing first, let artosis talk more. (and stop cuting artosis when he begins to explain a move like : A : wow that battle, I really liked when he moved his zergling to f.... T : OH YEAH? AWESOME, AWESOME MOVE, this player is SO GREAT And they he goes on a rampage of sooooo greatness and so awesomeness when artosis tried to explain WHY it was awesome.
I'm being critical, but I still really love their casting overall, just pointing where they could improve. And I still wake up every day to watch the stream.
This is I think is an inherent flaw with the current system. I do think the two of them are doing a fantastic job all things considered. But what other high-paced televised event do you have where the commentator is also forced to be the camera guy?
It's a wonder Tasteless can think of anything to say when he's observing or alternatively that he remembers to move the screen around a lot. As it stands, I think Tasteless has managed to balance out these two very demanding tasks. However, GOMTV really needs to specialize the roles more. Let Tasteless cast without having to observe, I'm sure his comment quality will increase beyond what it already is because he can focus on commentating rather than moving the screen. Get a designated observer- they can then go to town with rotating through the tabs, checking the bases, the battles. Hell! That's a full time job right there.
Maybe season 2, they can justify paying the extra guy. It is a new tournament that has yet to get it's infrastructure stabilized.
Personally, I just want to see some more Tasteless Stasis (aka forcefield). Also, I'm never quite sure if Cool and the Fruit Dealer are the same person or not. Perhaps clarify that more often? At random moments during the game? Also, more fruit jokes, please.
Actually, kidding aside, I think that they both do a pretty darn good job. Easy to hate, hard appreciate. I've really enjoyed the casts and VODs, and I'm sure that their occasional rough edges will get smoothed over.
Though I AM crossing my fingers for some more Tasteless Stasis.
On September 20 2010 01:36 MrCon wrote: They improved a lot after all the begining critisism. But after that the obsing have gone worse. (missing dark shrine...) I really think tasteless needs to focus on obsing first, let artosis talk more. (and stop cuting artosis when he begins to explain a move like : A : wow that battle, I really liked when he moved his zergling to f.... T : OH YEAH? AWESOME, AWESOME MOVE, this player is SO GREAT And they he goes on a rampage of sooooo greatness and so awesomeness when artosis tried to explain WHY it was awesome.
I'm being critical, but I still really love their casting overall, just pointing where they could improve. And I still wake up every day to watch the stream.
This is I think is an inherent flaw with the current system. I do think the two of them are doing a fantastic job all things considered. But what other high-paced televised event do you have where the commentator is also forced to be the camera guy?
It's a wonder Tasteless can think of anything to say when he's observing or alternatively that he remembers to move the screen around a lot. As it stands, I think Tasteless has managed to balance out these two very demanding tasks. However, GOMTV really needs to specialize the roles more. Let Tasteless cast without having to observe, I'm sure his comment quality will increase beyond what it already is because he can focus on commentating rather than moving the screen. Get a designated observer- they can then go to town with rotating through the tabs, checking the bases, the battles. Hell! That's a full time job right there.
Maybe season 2, they can justify paying the extra guy. It is a new tournament that has yet to get it's infrastructure stabilized.
Both Tasteless and Artosis are big boys that can walk and chew gum at the same time. Their issues with observing were of their own creation by not practicing and being prepared before the beginning of the GSL. I like that Tasteless is NOW taking lessons from the Korean obs which he decides to remind us every cast, but why wasn't this preparation being done BEFORE showtime? It really doesn't matter now but, it was just a let down.
As time passes and they begin to get more and more familiar with builds and players, the observing will improve. Right now if I were them I'd stick to Production Tab up 100% of the time or quickly switch to another tab and back to Production. With their eyes glued on the Production Tab and on the Mini-map they won't miss anything. I was MAJORLY dissapointed when they started but, it has gotten better, they just need a few tweaks and familiarity to set in.
so I was watching some ro32 games on YT which had video (thus obsing) from korean HD cast, but sound (thus commentating) from tastosis. It was pretty funny to compare it as tasteless was noticing important stuff always 2-5 seconds later
I really like tasteless is taking obsing lessons from pros though
On September 25 2010 23:34 ondik wrote: so I was watching some ro32 games on YT which had video (thus obsing) from korean HD cast, but sound (thus commentating) from tastosis. It was pretty funny to compare it as tasteless was noticing important stuff always 2-5 seconds later
I really like tasteless is taking obsing lessons from pros though
can you give a link? id like to see the comparison
In the games I watched they didn't provide much insight at all. It's just "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa all those <units> are dying". They only talk about whatever they're looking at on the screen which is rarely the right thing. I don't need someone to do play by play, I need someone to show and tell me about all the things I missed. I wish Klazart went to Korea =(
Bare minimum should at least be to point out tech switches BEFORE the whole army composition has changed and everyone can see it with their own eyes. They're getting paid to do this
maybe i missed the rough start, i've just been ob'sing the free RO 32 and 16 matches on gomtv.
personally i love the way they work together. it may not be super professional like a news anchor, but i like that. it feels like they are sitting here with me watching the match.
artosis knows crazy amounts about the game and i love learning all kinds of new tricks.
tasteless has great energy and really psyches up the battles.
together they bring an enjoyable style of casting.
I thinking the Obsing has gotten alot better since ro64.
Tasteless, I wish you would stop saying "drop over here," "drop over here," "expansion over here." Maybe you could use clock position on the map or possibly "drop at main," "drop at his 3rd," "he's making his 3rd." It would sound alot better imho.
No offense but they are way slower than korean obs because they never watch the minimap, so very often we see a big fight on the minimap and they are focusing on a drop so it's really annoying, I wonder how I could watch the korean stream as they are much more enthousiastics and give better view.
But of course they are doing a really good job for 75% of the games.
If you know how to watch the korean stream please message me or answer the thread =)
On September 30 2010 18:20 Sylvr wrote: Idea for a drinking game: Every time Tasteless tries to intro some function of the show and is met with awkward silence, you take a shot.
"We're gonna go into the game.... right now..............now.............. right now....."
On September 28 2010 19:41 eNbee wrote: Artosis stop calling bio (biological) bionic, please.
Love watching GSL + you guys casting though, keep up the good work!
It's bionic because its a mix of biological units(marines, marauders) and mech units (siege tanks/vikings/medivacs)
He doesnt use it to describe a mix of mech and biological he uses it to describe a biological mix of marines and marauders and he uses it to describe damage bonuses versus "bionic" too. I agree it is really annoying the one unit that seems to be truly bionic with electronically enhanced anatonical abilities is the ghost. I wish he would just use the blizzard classificaton of biological like everyone else.
I didn't realize that EG was sponsoring the event. Tasteless has been a complete let down this season, the plugs are ridiculous, not to mention the huge drop off in level of commentary.
Artosis would be doing an outstanding job if he could stop telling us how amazing one of the players is. Artosis picks the player he likes, then talks about how good that player is the entire game. You're supposed to be commentating on the match, not analyzing the play of one player.
You're either rooting for the same person as Artosis and Tasteless or rooting against that person. It's starting to get out of hand. Maybe they'll pick it up in the finals, but I can already see them raving about Cool all game.
I had great hope for Tasteless, now I am not sure I want him to cast anymore.
The reason I dont like him now, is that he dont bring anything to the table. Artosis has great knowledge, he brings this to the table, as well as his casting is overall is good. But Tastless along with Artosis, he just becomes a shadow of Artosis, bringing nothing new, no excitement or anything.
I am trying, to find tips for Tasteless, but it hit me, when Tasteless was casting with Torch when Artosis played, that he simply does not fit in with Artosis. Sad to say this, but I would rather have Husky there instead, he brings excitement, something unique to my ears, I can live with his short comings. Artosis and tasteless are too similar, except Tasteless is just a shadow of Artosis Not sure you understod my point.
the only thing that bothers me alot is Tasteless constantly talking about the money, like 2342 times per cast he mentions "that they play for a lot of money", "this will cost him a lot of money", "he can win a lot of money" etc.
I honestly thought I was alone in disliking their casting a lot. I actually think Artosis is funny and is a better caster, but feel like even a lot tl.net featured casters are much better at casting. Artosis is always more prepared and all of that so I have to give him credit, but Tasteless just seems to agree and maybe throw in one bit of useful info into the conversation. Artosis is generally more enthusiastic and seems more excited about what he's doing too.
The biggest thing that ruins their casting for me is, on more than one occasion, I noticed tech or expansions way before they did. As casters, I feel this is the most important skill for casters to have - always know what's going on and what's coming.
They're getting better at noticing things, but it's definitely hard to obs the game and cast at the same time. They're going to miss some things due to the setup.
Artosis would be a lot better if he stayed a little more detached from the games. He's very passionate about the games, which is a good thing, but I think it's getting to be too much. I'm very tired of him being so biased throughout the games as well.
How about just jumping in on the korean observer? Artosis is doing fine, but Tasteless is completely tunnelvision on whatever goes on in the current screen. This is a consequence of him controlling the camera himself. Most of us has eyes, and don't need to be told "... over here" all the time. Talking in broader terms are way better.
You'll never please everyone. Tastosis has synergy; they work well together and they feed off each other. Tasteless has been doing this for a long time, and people suggest that he's not adequate enough? Come on, it could be a lot worse. I suspect that if GOM listened to people in here, we'd have casting quality such as this.
For people who complain that Tastosis is "slower" than the Korean observers, note that they noticed FruitDealer gooping the expo on Scrap Station in the game against oGsTOP before the Koreans. Both of them will have their hits and misses.
Tasteless isn't like his brother. He isn't trying to describe the exact builds and in-depth strategies that each player is doing. His job is to hype up the game and build excitement. Of course he is going to tunnel vision on the big battles instead of moving away from it and saying "OMG HE'S EXPANDINGGGGGGGGG"
It's not a casters job to explain exactly what the players are doing, you can just watch and see for yourself.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they'll have equal numbers of hits and misses.
I remember watching a hatchery build for about 2-3 minutes in one GSL game, watching dots move around on the minimap while Tastosis bantered about an unrelated subject. Banter is fine, it's cool, it's great and all, but please please don't let it detract from game analysis.
That much should be unsaid for professional casting. Listen to casters from any other sport: banter is there, but it never interferes with game commenting. This would be my number 1 comment to Tastosis.
Sure, mechanics could improve. Whatever. I'm not really worried about how smooth the camera is or having the production tab open all the time. I just want to make sure I can see each players base from time to time, and get to watch some epic fights.
One last thing: I miss the old, hyper-energetic Tasteless who talked a mile a minute during battles. Bring him back plees. <3
Wow people need to QQ. Artosis and Tasteless are fantastic casters. I see Artosis as more of the knowledge and stategic analysis caster and Tasteless as the charismatic, excitable guy. Because they're so different they work well together as casters.
I really have no complaints, they're doing as well as they can, and they make me laugh quite a bit as well.
I agree that at the start of Ro64 Tastosis' commentry did feel a bit unpolished, but they have improved in leaps and bounds since then. I really enjoy their casting style and sense of humor, and the fact that they often remark that they're making efforts to improve and ask for feedback gives me confidence that they will continue to do so. Occasionally, they have stopped to note that they are "noob-friendly" and taken a moment to explain what's currently going on and why it's important - I would really like to see this happen more often. Not all the time as that would be cumbersome, but even just once or maybe twice a match would be great.
I don't know if it has actually been discussed but I watched every gsl game and I have never seens the "Army" tab being used. Can definitely be a nice feature e.g after a big battle takes place, it could be interesting to see what are the remaining armies sizes. Is there a reason why this tab is never used?
Man, the commentating has improved so much. I still want to strangle them some times when they miss obvious minimap action or techs, or when the Koreans are enthusiastically screaming in the background about something they're barely commentating on. Still, it's like night and day.
Tasteless' job is caster not commentator. Artosis on the other hand is a commentator. Its not that Tasteless is any less knowledgeable than Artosis. It's his job to be the host of the show, make announcements and make Artosis look good during the game.
Hes obing is getting better really fast. I can see him resisting himself from moving the cam too much. LOL $300/h obing lessons.
I hope he continues to cast GSL for the ppl outside of Korea.
I would like tasteless to scroll thought the production, units, income, and army tabs more. Though you can't really read the numbers so it isn't a big deal. I think tasteless does a great job and I like his jokes at the start of the matches. Dreidel guy, debris vs rocks, overlord kiss, and of course panda bear guy.
I always thoroughly enjoy a game when tasteless commentates it. There are a few well known commentators for pro games but...they just don't make the game entertaining and intuitive at the same time. It's always just too focused on how so and so played the game and not so much about the greatness of the game that is starcraft.
I think if you out to learn something, download a replay pack and learn through your own commentating, but if you want some entertainment with that learning, watch some commentators, just my thought
It sometimes feels like the one who controls vision changes and they do not realise it - it was pretty bad in the RO4 especially. Maybe the'd have to talk with the organisators. Apart from that, I enjoy their work a lot =)
On October 02 2010 10:05 Backpack wrote: Tasteless isn't like his brother. He isn't trying to describe the exact builds and in-depth strategies that each player is doing. His job is to hype up the game and build excitement. Of course he is going to tunnel vision on the big battles instead of moving away from it and saying "OMG HE'S EXPANDINGGGGGGGGG"
It's not a casters job to explain exactly what the players are doing, you can just watch and see for yourself.
Casting is horrible, if you find this casting good you are expecting nothing from lifes qualities.
I listened to a restream of the korean version, and even though I do not understand what they are saying, their cameracontrol and emotions they put at keypoints are more then enough to get me super pumped up. Tasteless does not even come close to bring excitement, actually the analyst and the sc2 lexicon Artosis does this better.
Artosis is good, he could do well with another caster that had different qualities then him (more energy and emotions), but Tasteless, well, the fact he could even sink so low and show up with cold and act like he is a hero for us is just, I honestly do not have words for such.
I hope they fire Tasteless, 1 season has passed, and he is still very bad at everything he does. I gave him so many chances, never judged him in the start despise him being rusty. He just does not deliver.
On September 30 2010 19:27 FecalDecal wrote: I'd like to see him utilize a little more player view, and also pay close attention to the research/building tabs so we know what's coming.
But overall great job.
I'd like to see him utilize a LOT more player view, you can tell he was a SC1 caster for so long. Whereas other people like HD and Husky make more use of the tools at their fingertips.
i dont think they should preemptively say who is going to win no matter how obvious
it kinda kills the excitement because every 3 seconds they say "looks like player x is gonna type out any minute now" or "looks like we're going to the next map"
other then that, i think its been a good job.. his obsing will improve over time i believe
On October 02 2010 21:34 crappen wrote: Artosis is good, he could do well with another caster that had different qualities then him (more energy and emotions), but Tasteless, well, the fact he could even sink so low and show up with cold and act like he is a hero for us is just, I honestly do not have words for such.
In no way did Tasteless overemphasize the fact that he was sick and I think the fact that you think he was trying to have himself seen as a hero is very shortsighted and judgmental on your part. Tasteless mentioned his cold, they joked about it for a little bit, then moved on to cast the games. I believe he mentioned it once more so newer viewers would know why his voice was off but that does necessarily point to being a narcissist.
Sort out your bloody hair Tasteless you look like Grandpa from The Munsters with that stupid middle fringe pulldown. I mean I know you're in Korea and dating a model who probably has some bizarre ideas about what looks good but that shit is just plain distracting.
Also don't piss all over your casting job and the associated company by cross promoting your own stuff constantly, we get it, you're in EG and you sell t-shirts, stop trying to Gootecks up my SC2 bro.
i respect his enthusiasm/excitement for starcraft, but i do feel like his humor got a bit tamer since sc1. i just imagine that this is because he's salaried with gomtv and can't make jokes that could offend people as an employee of gomtv.
i think it's a really difficult time to cast right now, considering the game has been out for only a couple months (as opposed to when he started casting for BW--- the game had been out for years... ie. set build orders leading to more predictable events) -- part of why it is exciting now is because players are able to do things that haven't been seen (or even thought of by many people) before... and i can't blame him for failing to predict what hasn't been seen before (also, i can't blame him for not being able to have the camera on 4 locations at once, even though i'd like to see them all)
Those two need a warning, i've bought gomtv tickets and watched them how they cast, they interrupt eachother too much, they miss too many things..... .no future for them if they keep up their hobbylike casting.......
To all the haters: Find a better casterduo. HDH you say? lawl! Tastosis have been casting together for years, they pretty much know how to keep the stream of words flowing whereas HDH just dont have this.
I know there is a lot here about obsing and the like, but didn't day [9] once mention that according to his brother, that Korea has a separate man who is payed exclusively to move the camera and the like. Therefore the duo of Tastosis would be unable to effect what you see anyway?
Watching the korean stream was actually a lot more awesome in terms of observing and hype. They did a horrible job and should really work on themselves, because at the moment, there are a lot more people, who could do a better job than this.
On October 02 2010 23:53 LeDuck wrote: Watching the korean stream was actually a lot more awesome in terms of observing and hype. They did a horrible job and should really work on themselves, because at the moment, there are a lot more people, who could do a better job than this.
Admittedly I ended up watching the Korean stream. Mainly because GOMTV's was lagging like hell. But it does seem they need to work on their casting alot to match the quality of Koreas.
I think tasteless really needs to get someone to do the obersving for him so he can concentrate on his commentary. Because at the moment neither his commentary or oberving are up to par (I think tasteless is fantastic usually but he's trying to do too much by commentating and observing and it shows).
Some of my thoughts: 1. Less fixed screen, more moving and looking into different spots. I'd love to see more active screen swapping. Rotate between builds and units constantly. 2. Always look in the mini map to spot on going situations. Even if its insignificant like overlord spreading creep, etc. It's always better for viewers to get to know what's really going on. 3. More collaboration- Tasteless can do the camera observing; but Artosis (and maybe others through the headset) can really spot what else is happening on other parts of the map so that they can actually miss out on less. 4. Less general "filler" items like "That's such an awesome match" "Or <player> is such a sick sick monster", "I think we're going to see a good game" etc. Just let us know what you guys really think! Personal/ subjective or not, its up to viewers to decide and u know we love to debate on that!!! 5. Less cueing. Please. Nobody cares if the map pool screen/ game starts/ street fighter voice enters the screen at the exact time you guys mentioned it to be. We're here to see Tastosis cast the game, give us some personality and don't bother too much with the routines. Remember that you guys are just as important as the games itself.
Overall you guys are doing a pretty decent job and wanna let u know we really appreciate you guys living the dream in Korea. I'd love to see you guys becoming better in the process because I know you guys are better. Cheers!
To me it seems that much of the time Tasteless has a hard time relaxing. Instead he seems to be thinking, what to say. Once you start thinking, what to say, you won't really come up with anything good. If he's relaxed & enjoys himself, he's much better. I guess this thread with all this criticism hasn't really helped him either, but just made him more stiff.
This thread is pretty ridiculous as far as i'm concerned. They're simply the best english casters there are. If anyone can legitimately tell me that they'd rather listed to HDH and Husky than Artosis and Tasteless, then i weep for the future. They're fantastic at they're jobs, and there is absolutely no reason for anything to change. The Grand Finals just ended making for the biggest SC2 story EVER, and everyone is talking about the casting. You're doing it wrong.
Some of the whiny complaints in this thread are so ridiculous it's sad. It's like people want AAA rating pro sports commentary 24/7 - it's fucking inane.
This is a niche sport, consider yourselves lucky you have anyone - they do a fairly reasonable job and when he does plug his own shit he does it humourously - who gives a shit if Tasteless is in EG and he mentions it inbetween matches. Are you that starved for data that one sentence inbetween games is wasting your time? Jesus.
What they do need is to keep their eye on the map more -and make better use of the obs features built in to SC2, also they need to not read this thread as they might cry at how dopey some starcraft fans are
On September 10 2010 07:58 Manifesto7 wrote: This isn't anything new. It was the same deal in BW when Tasteless didn't know the names of the players during the GSI and other events. Those who said he are treating it like a hobby are 100% correct. He don't practice his commentating, he doesn't practice his observing, and he treats the cast like they are chatting on vent and battle.net.
because you live with him? just because someone doesnt quote statistics and meaningless boring shit at you doesnt mean they dont prepare. its blatantly obvious that in less than a week his casts have vastly improved in terms of the sc2 obs features. ya he wasnt familiar with them at first, because he spent his time practicing the game so he could actually talk coherently about it, unlike all but 2 other casters.
60 of the 64 gamers in this tournament are Koreans, and most of them are completely unknown to even the die hard fans. It is the commentators job to provide information that we don't have, but it is painfully obvious that neither has taken the time to supplement their knowledge beyond name recognition. Even watching replays of the players and taking a few notes on tendencies would raise the quality of the cast immeasurably. Talking to the players beforehand would help too. Get a translator.
its not his job to teach you who koreannewbie#34 is. its his job to talk about the game and be entertaining. and he does that. when a player is noteworthy he talks about them, when theres an unknown who might become noteworthy, like iron, he tells you that. when someone is an actual nobody that means theres nothing to say about them. so he's funny and entertaining and he talks about the game.
But again, this is nothing new. Tasteless has been coasting on his reputation for years and benefits from being the biggest (and only) name in Korea. I have never seen him take concrete steps to actually improve his casting. Which is really too bad really, because his natural charisma makes him great for TV. He just doesn't have anything to back it up with.
shut up
I agree with everything here You just wrote it out for me
Honestly, from watching the finals live last night, Tasteless and Artosis have taken every bit of useful advice from the earlier parts of this thread to heart. They were definitely on the ball, even though Tasteless sounded like he was dying.
On October 03 2010 01:53 GreEny K wrote: They have been doing this for years. I think they would take this as an insult, I don't think you were around for their BW casting days.
I'm sorry, but isn't this exactly the problem? They didn't live up to their BW reputation and did a pretty bad job, at least at the beginning of the GSL? The thing is, the game has tons new options and they weren't familiar with them, so they should take any advice they can get, even when they have a lot of experience, there's always room for improvement. I'm interested to see how it's going to work out for next GSL, if they keep a high lvl commentary, there won't be any reason to complain, is there?
On a sidenote, there's no reason to start a discussion about HDH, this is about the GSL commentary and nothing else.
On October 03 2010 00:10 being wrote: To me it seems that much of the time Tasteless has a hard time relaxing. Instead he seems to be thinking, what to say. Once you start thinking, what to say, you won't really come up with anything good. If he's relaxed & enjoys himself, he's much better. I guess this thread with all this criticism hasn't really helped him either, but just made him more stiff.
Is it any wonder he would have a hard time relaxing? He's commentating AND observing. He's thinking all the time on how best to follow the action and think up something useful to say without interupting Artosis. But no,
Both Tasteless and Artosis are big boys that can walk and chew gum at the same time
Which quite frankly is insulting to what they do- neither walking nor chewing requires high order thinking- in fact there is little conscious thought involved in walking.
So we dismiss what they do as easy, then demand he rotates through the tabs consistently, switch player views, never miss a piece of action, always have insightful commentary on the strategies of new game, have an encyclopedic knowledge of all the Korean no-names, and the list goes on.
I agree, all of this would be good to have. And yes, Tastosis can always improve. Can they fulfill all these demands? Probably. Can they do it well? Not as well as the Korean commentators that have a separate observer. When it's your full-time to observe, you can be sure that the quality will improve vastly. because that's all you have to think about. And when all you have to do is cast, the casting will vastly improve, because that's all you have to think about. I quite frankly can't see why this would be a hard concept to grasp. And the fact that the Korean casters do have a separate observer, makes the two casts incomparable except to lobby that Tastosis should get a separate observer in their booth.
As it stand, they are doing well all things considered, with some stuff to improve upon, which will come with time. I appreciate that they spent time learning the game rather than just the observer controls.
On October 03 2010 01:49 sylverfyre wrote: Honestly, from watching the finals live last night, Tasteless and Artosis have taken every bit of useful advice from the earlier parts of this thread to heart. They were definitely on the ball, even though Tasteless sounded like he was dying.
Yeah. Ever since the round of 32 or so they have been great. I have no further complaints honestly. They even cut back on the "killing newbies" and other such phrases while still being pretty funny and enthusiastic about their casting.
Say what you want about HD but he catches the action, and he also presents himself far more proffesionally than anyone in the SC2 casting "bussiness".
He dosent tell you "injokes" between him and his "nerds" or some obscure reference that only 19 people on TL.net know about, he just calls the action, puts over the players and makes the whole thing seem important.
Im sure Idra, Day9 and the rest of the people who know these guys personally enjoy their casting, but the rest of us want someone more proffesional and on point
I like Tasteless casting as well as Artosis. They've got me laughing at times, I like to see them get excited during a battle or drop and talk good strategy and have many accurate predictions. I would further like if they could go deep into player's history and stats, but it's not a deal breaker if they don't. The haters here are way too demanding and seem like they don't know what they're talking about. For one, I would definitely not put HD and Husky to commentate for these kinds of matches.
The one thing I would drop from their commentating is the "he is such a cute nerd" comments... sometimes they get a little... O_O especially when you're watching the game and have a non-starcraft fan close by. It gets awkward.
Personally, I like their casting. My one criticism is that Tasteless seems to be able to point out only the obvious stuff on the TV and just agree with whatever Artosis says all the time. However, he does bring great humor into the casting.
And yes, please use the tab function more. We'd like to see constant use of income, production, unit count, even apm counting station at all time.
Overall, I am happy with what I am getting. I don't treat e-sport hardcore and like it just fine as casual entertainment with casual commentating. I will buy the ticket for next season.
Maybe TL has been a bit spoiled. A lot of the tourneys so far have had Day9 casting, who at this point is more experienced at casting starcraft II and at being a personality. I felt like at many points Tasteless didn't quite know what to say and had to improvise a lot, which made for some awkward moments and a lot of "uhh"s, but I guess he can improve.
On October 03 2010 02:42 Pawshter wrote: HD and husky for GSL2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i wouldn't watch gsl if that happened, tastosis have been doing amazing and they can actually analyze whats happening in game instead of only stating the very obvious
The one criticism i'd have is: Should be rotating through the different tabs every 30 seconds, and going back to the production one every 2nd time. That way it gives a nice format for talking about certain things. And you won't miss an upgrade as you'll see it pop up, hence a prompt to go and look at it.
Yes, this is a good suggestion. Keep cycling through the more important tabs. Also, I think it would make sense if Artosis was watching the tab window so he could point out anything interesting because Tasteless will need to keep his attention on the minimap so he can track any movement (missing things like drops needs to be reduced/stopped). Going to have to learn gosu multitask to observe and cast at the same time lol.
On October 02 2010 23:59 IvanC wrote: 4. Less general "filler" items like "That's such an awesome match" "Or <player> is such a sick sick monster", "I think we're going to see a good game" etc. Just let us know what you guys really think! Personal/ subjective or not, its up to viewers to decide and u know we love to debate on that!!!
On October 03 2010 00:29 ander wrote: This thread is pretty ridiculous as far as i'm concerned. They're simply the best english casters there are. If anyone can legitimately tell me that they'd rather listed to HDH and Husky than Artosis and Tasteless, then i weep for the future. They're fantastic at they're jobs, and there is absolutely no reason for anything to change. The Grand Finals just ended making for the biggest SC2 story EVER, and everyone is talking about the casting. You're doing it wrong.
These are 2 good posts. And Tasteless has been taking lessons from a korean observing trainer that is $300/hr. Watch his obsing in the very beginning of tourney towards the end. Its gotten a lot better already. The filler items bother me, I'd much rather hear analysis and game discussion. I'm not sure if GOM is limiting their input or what but they are smart commentators let them shine.
Also everyone in this thread who mentioned HD or husky is brain dead. They are both excellent talkers, not casters. They cannot commentate on HIGH LEVEL (drink) with true understanding of what is going on. Artosis and Tasteless have been through it
On October 03 2010 02:42 Pawshter wrote: HD and husky for GSL2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i wouldn't watch gsl if that happened, tastosis have been doing amazing and they can actually analyze whats happening in game instead of only stating the very obvious
neither would I, just thinking about that makes me sad.
on a side note, tasteless is such a baller for toughing it out through the finals even though he sounded like death.
On October 03 2010 00:49 abrasion wrote: Some of the whiny complaints in this thread are so ridiculous it's sad. It's like people want AAA rating pro sports commentary 24/7 - it's fucking inane.
This is a niche sport, consider yourselves lucky you have anyone - they do a fairly reasonable job and when he does plug his own shit he does it humourously - who gives a shit if Tasteless is in EG and he mentions it inbetween matches. Are you that starved for data that one sentence inbetween games is wasting your time? Jesus.
What they do need is to keep their eye on the map more -and make better use of the obs features built in to SC2, also they need to not read this thread as they might cry at how dopey some starcraft fans are
On October 03 2010 02:42 Pawshter wrote: HD and husky for GSL2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i wouldn't watch gsl if that happened, tastosis have been doing amazing and they can actually analyze whats happening in game instead of only stating the very obvious
They? Really?
Or do you mean Artosis alone is doing a damn good job at analyzing the game while Tasteless just feeds off whatever he has to say while throwing in some fruit jokes? Some of it was witty and did make me chuckle but his skills as a commentator seemed very amateurish. He did spend most of his time nodding to his co-caster's remarks while reiterating countless times on the size of the prize pool...
EPT
Although that too can sometimes cause you to miss action or key information.
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