|
On September 10 2010 08:14 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 08:07 MrBitter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2010 08:03 _Darwin_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 07:58 d00gwad wrote:
I must say I enjoy husky's casts very much (better control and knowledge imo) - but as far as adding a little comedy to the cast, tasteless has most casters beat hands down. Husky has more knowledge than tasteless? Wut? In terms of SC2 knowledge, I would put Husky on par with Tasteless. Stasis was a BW spell, Tasteless. And the mic comes out the left side. ; ) Artosis keeps saying dragoons about stalkers. I guess he's behind Husky aswell in knowledge.
Quoting this because I misspoke. Meant to say HD. Not putting HD ahead of Artosis by any stretch, but tasteless has yet to impress me with his analysis. (But again, he's the sauce, not the analysis dude, so what's it matter?)
edit: And I'll go ahead and add that I rarely watch HD and Husky. But I feel like HD speaks with much greater accuracy than Tasteless does these days.
|
I personally have no idea why HD+Husky are so popular, for me they point out the obvious far too much are often wrong in their strategical analysis and act way too over-professional and boring, and Husky is the better caster out of the 2 not HD. Tasteless is the best caster out there for making anything exciting and Artosis has more insight and game knowledge than anybody else that casts, most of you guys have NO IDEA what you're talking about, and too many of you suffer from fanboyism.
On September 10 2010 08:49 Vz0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony. HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother) I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip. tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise. But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
Rofl, who are you to say that to nony, HD doesn't know more than tasteless at all, and he's about 10 times more boring, predictable and corny. Seriously everyone new to the starcraft scene seems to admire HD+Husky like they're gods, they're mediocre and trying too hard. IMO.
|
Well, I don't know Artosis is a little biased at times  but he is undeniably knowledgeable. I would certainly put Artosis and Day close together, wouldn't be able to judge accurately who is better.
|
On September 10 2010 08:52 my0s wrote:
Am I the only one who thought it was kinda a big thing that Artosis came out of that match and flat out said as a caster, that his opponent was bad, his play was flat out stupid, and he should have won?
Nothing world ending, but Id have to imagine there would be some controversy with him using that professional platform to BM his opponent? Gotta appreciate his honesty. I think he did an amazing job that day, casting the first and the fourth match, even though he had to play in the third match. Very few of the players in this tournament, or in the world, could pull this off, and still play well and win a game. It was a stunt of his own.
|
On September 10 2010 08:42 Zerokaiser wrote:
The point of casting is to provide indepth and accurate play-by-plays of the game, Day9 and Apollo did that wonderfully at IEM. Tastless and Artosis are simply NOT performing.
EXAMPLE
I can't remember the name of the players, which is embaressing. But the Terran that beat Protoss with a Battlecruiser timing attack. Note, this sort of example has been happening regularly.
Tasteless and Artosis didn't say a single word about an Armory, or a battlecruiser being made. They paid no attention to how the game was progressing or even what the players were actually DOING. The game was LITERALLY "Stuff is happening, these players are good, neat stuff with that zealot, OH MY GOD BATTLECRUISER" and the game was over.
The fact is, viewers aren't at all getting a clear idea of what is going on in the game. Tastless and Artosis can be as famous and reputable as they want, and I love listening to them, but they are performing very, very poorly as casters.
I am not entirely sure about this matter.
Knowing everything beforehand takes a lot of suprise / excitement out of the game (for me).
Sometimes I want to be suprised by something huge like a mothership / battlecruiser.
I think it's funny that you mention day9 & apollo @IEM. Remember the Tarson (?) and IdrA game where IdrA used the muta magic box trick.
The whole fucking game day9/apollo (dont remember who) spent the time to say "yeah - I talked to IdrA he has this technique". 1min later "yeah more Thors are produced, but remember, I talked to me and said he doesnt fear them".
When it actually happened - I wasnt excited. I'd prefer something like "oh - Mutas vs Thors? Is he sure about it?" Then the confrontation happens - one caster is all excited "OMG DID YOU SEE THAT?" and then they could say "Yeah he mentioned something similiar to me".
I like to be suprised here & there - so I dont care if I dont always get told a battlecruiser is on its way. But now of course, the BC novelty has worn off - nothing to be surprised about in TvP. Now I want to be informed about them.
Overall I like the casting of Tasteless & Artosis. Their voices are pleasant - even when getting louder / excited. That's the one thing other casters turn me off 
|
On September 10 2010 09:00 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 08:49 Vz0 wrote:On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony. HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother) I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip. tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise. But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
Woah woah woah. If you are gonna say tasteless is noobish compaired to day9, like hes saying shit like it's a protip: have you seen day9 recently? No offense to day9, I love the guy, but for me it is now unwatchable. It's basically a noobcast and experienced players will barely get anything out of it. Both tasteless and day9 appeal to all audiences and are not elitest assholes who talk about only the most obscure and fine details in starcraft like everyone should know every term and trick already.
|
On September 10 2010 08:27 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 08:21 Wargizmo wrote:On September 10 2010 07:01 SuperGnu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote:
I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like;
"Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player"
"Sure is dude, sure is"
"Haha, yeah, it is"
"Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it People in this community love to hate on HD and Husky because it's the popular thing to do. To be honest listening to Tasteless I don't get the impression that he knows much more about the game than either HD or Husky. Don't get me wrong, I like all three casters but people who weren't popular BW players/casters have to work a lot harder to get approval on TL. If you think thats the reason people dont like HD and Husky you are very wrong. People don't like them because they are bad.. Its that simple! People who can't see the bad however love them! These are the same people who are going 4 gate all-in every game in every mu or 1 base Terran the entire game. They are also same people who can't think more than 2 seconds into the future of the game that they are playing. Also in this case "bad = lack of knowledge." To be fair HD and Husky are pretty decent casters and have done a good deal for the community. They are better casters than I would be so I have no room to be pessimistic on that part but when I hear them say things that are far from true thats when I feel no remorse when saying that they have a lack of knowledge about the game.
So you are saying tasteless is bad then? Check.
|
I was somewhat disappointed when I tuned in for GOMtv's English casts and found Tasteless and Artosis rather unprepared and somewhat flustered throughout the entire cast. Their cast really lacks the fluidity and smoothness of a Day9+Anyone cast or the HD/Husky combo, but I don't really fault them for it right now.
Of course, I think the pair could be more professional and could really work on having more information about specific players and teams, but you have to realize that they have to wait on someone else for their timings. If the Korean casters are taking longer than expected, they have to come up with something to talk about on the fly and continue on doing that until they get the notification from the camera crew that the game is starting (which seems to always come less than 10 seconds from the start of the match). This is why they seem choppy and caught off guard between games.
It seems like they have room to improve, but I think they deserve a some leeway seeing as how they are, for the time being, an accessory to the primary Korean cast and not the main event. After the first tournament, I believe that they will smooth out their casting ability.
|
On September 10 2010 06:43 godzillathrilla wrote:Don't zoom in too too much, as it can be a distraction from the whole scope of the game--and possibly prevent the spectator from enjoying a larger battle. I do appreciate your avid interest in map details and critters though  Although that too can sometimes cause you to miss action or key information.
This is so hugely important. Observers are only used to seeing the game from 1 angle. In the PvP game from last night, Tasteless decided to zoom in while a zealot was attacking a mineral line, in the hope that it would help us to see the action better. On the contrary, even though the the zealot and probes were bigger on the screen, I had a tremendously difficult time telling which probes he had hit and how effective the harassment was being, simply because I'm not used to seeing things at that angle.
Likewise in the Dimaga vs. Kiwikaki game, on Scrap Station, there was one point where TheGunRun decided to rotate the camera to see Kiwi's natural and Dimaga's nydus forces from a different view. Even though it was understandable why he'd rotate the camera that way during the battle, it still made it much harder to observe and figure out wtf was going on, just because everything looked so strange. (To be fair to TheGunRun, he's gotten a TON better about not doing this while observing; his camera control has improved so tremendously since his start that it gives me a lot of hope for Tasteless, who is already decent.)
Anyways, long story short, zooming or changing the camera angle doesn't help people see things more clearly, and in fact makes things worse by screwing up people's orientation.
|
I am actually enjoying their casting more a few days in. They are getting better though even now Tasteless is struggling to know the hotkeys as an observer even after a number of days. If I was to be doing a cast as my job I would take the time to learn what keys did what before the tournament even started I am sure he can get some tips from his brother.
I also have to disagree with nony/tyler they are preaching to the choir pointing out building a CC before moving. If anyone doesnt know this then why would they be paying to watch a GOMTV VOD or watching it live at a time most are at work (EU) or in bed (US). This is done in bronze let alone plat we know we can learn so much more from him than this.
The best games so far were with Torch when he pointed out key tech changes going on to Tasteless. Anyway I am enjoying it and thats what is important and it is still better than the old GOMTV casts with superdanielman and they had no control over what they could show us.
|
Day9 has it easy because he knows all of the players. He's watch almost all of Dimaga, Slush, Morrow, etc. play. They do the same strategies over and over (with some new ones here and there) and he knows how these guys play.
Tasteless is thrown into the biggest tournament ever for SC2 with a bunch of new players and cannot even talk to most of them because of the language barrier. When something odd comes up, he cannot go "Oh, I've seen Dimaga do this before! I analyzed why he gets gas here. It's an early baneling into..." like Day9 does because he, just like everybody else, has absolutely no clue. Cut him some slack until the later stages in the tournament where we actually know the players.
HDH is no better. After they kept telling me that high templar are worthless, stalkers beat marauders, and a bunch of other just plain wrong things, I gave up on them.
Note: Using BW names is just sloppy though. I played BW, but come on, it's forcefield, and stalkers, and medivacs, etc.
|
Well, what I think has already been said.
I LOVE these guys. They definitely have amazing banter and it is so much fun to watch and listen to. Aside from Day9, they are my favourites.
However, Tasteless really doesn't seem to be taking it seriously. I'm sure he could put a little more effort into know the generic hot keys and perhaps observe how the Korean commentators do things because their camera control and ability to catch every little detail of the game is great. Tasteless really needs to work on catching everything that's happening. So yes, if I am paying money to watch this, and Tastosis is getting paid, they should put in a little bit more effort to be prepared by knowing more controls and being more professional when it comes to being our eyes into the games.
I also read earlier about someone wanting some "pre info" on the players themselves, I think this is a great idea. It really lets us know more about who we are watching and perhaps lets us cheer for some new people!
Aside from those little bits of criticism, I think they are doing a great job. I like the way they analyse the games. I know they tend to miss a few things that even I seem to catch. Such as how many units were lost or when there are DTs already built and in the enemy base before noticed haha =P, but I'm just sitting in my chair zonked out watching the screen, they obviously have more to do at once.
Anywho, that's my bit. I feel that by the next GSL, they will have worked out all these little problems, take it more serious and get phenomenally better (although it's sad that it couldn't happen sooner). I still enjoy watching them. Being in the UK, all the games start at 10am my time. So perfect =)
Zenny
|
I think you casters are AWESOME! You guys are doing such a great job. I'm learning a lot of new things, and sometimes you guys can be straight up hilarious. Keep up the good work!
Just wanted to make that clear before I offer these suggestions. Some phrases are becoming a little trite. You may want to use them a little less. For example:
"And it looks like [...]"
"And he's actually going to go ahead and [...]"
"Nice forcefield!"
Consider saying "boosts warpgates," not "charges warpgates."
Consider saying "Colossi," not "Colossuses." (Yes, I realize both are correct, but "Colossi" has garnered more favor among casters and contain one less syllable.)
One last thing... please speak nicely of the players. =] DO point out their problems, but please do so with the utmost tact!
Once again, keep up the great work!
|
I'm not sure why people want them to be more professional, to me their charm is that they have that off beat style. They're the "Wayne's World" of commentary.
It seems to me they recognise the fundamental absurdity that we're gathered around PC screens watching a stream of a computer game being played for money. It's about as nerdy a thing as you can do, and as such it should be approached with a certain nerdy style. Tasteless and Artosis capture that geek aesthetic perfectly I think.
Honestly I think the worst thing they could do is get more professional, in fact other casters could probably stand to take a leaf out of their book and relax a little and not be in super serious mode.
|
On September 10 2010 08:49 Vz0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 08:27 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
As for game knowledge, I find it funny hearing random people I've never heard of commenting on commentators' game knowledge. What do they know? If you're learning something from a commentator then you probably aren't good enough to judge. For communicating game knowledge, I'd say Artosis and Day[9] are tied, then Tasteless, then JP/Husky/HD, then everyone else. Sometimes a good player will decide to commentate and they'll be up there with Artosis and Day[9], or even beyond them if it's a matchup they're familiar with.
you've got to be kidding me nony. HD (not husky/jp) knows FAR MORE about the game then tasteless does. Tasteless does excel as an entertainment caster (which is why hes kewl!!) but when it comes to actually game knowledge tastesless knows next to nothing.(relative to his brother) I mean hes stressing the fact so many times that people are making orbital commands prior to moving the CC. This is a well known fact in the diamond league heck even platinums do it. Everybdoy does it. Yet he tells us as if its some new protip. tThere are countless other times wehre Tastless have embarassed himself game knowledge wise. But I mean come on!!! In return, tastless finds the BJ's store in metalopolis. Who else has map awareness to match him?? GO tasteless !!!!
I think it says alot about your game knowelege if you think HD is more knowlegeable of the game than husky. I defiently think tasteless has decent knowelege of the game tho.
|
My only big issue so far is the lack of production tab. It's so much more useful than unit counter, and can relay a ton of information despite the low resolution
There's been some other off comments with wrong information which were annoying. Like Tasteless saying not to build more than 16 workers for your mineral patches, and blinking to islands. Hopefully those'll stop happening as he becomes more familiar with the game
oh yeah and cut down on the imbalance talk. I know it's artosis, but it's really offputting during a 'tourney cast
|
On September 10 2010 09:35 Shakes wrote:
I'm not sure why people want them to be more professional, to me their charm is that they have that off beat style. They're the "Wayne's World" of commentary.
It seems to me they recognise the fundamental absurdity that we're gathered around PC screens watching a stream of a computer game being played for money. It's about as nerdy a thing as you can do, and as such it should be approached with a certain nerdy style. Tasteless and Artosis capture that geek aesthetic perfectly I think.
Honestly I think the worst thing they could do is get more professional, in fact other casters could probably stand to take a leaf out of their book and relax a little and not be in super serious mode.
Professionalism and Personality are two different things. People want more Professionalism in observing(aka knowing the Obs Tools in and out, viewing the important things) and casting(aka when to stop the jokes/anecdotes and concentrate on what's happening in the game). There have been very FEW people in this thread that want Tasteless or Artosis to change their style of casting(aka jokes and odd things in maps). It's just learning when to joke and when to be serious that will take awhile to balance and everyone understands that. I hope...
|
Wow how did this devolve into a caster vs caster thread so quickly? Why are people ragging on Tasteless for explaining things like building an Orbital Command before lifting it off to the expansion? It's not like he was wrong about it, he was just explaining it to the viewers that might not have seen it before. It's not like he presented it as some sort of revelation, he also explained other basic SC concepts like APM and scouting, it's all about making the broadcast as accessible as possible. Sort of like when an NFL broadcaster talks about why 3rd down is a passing down, everyone knows it, but it's a nice way to fill air time while you inform people who are watching casually.
I seriously would not underestimate Tasteless's knowledge of the game. The guy has years of BW experience, and appears to be at least pretty good at SC2 as well. He wouldn't have gotten this far without knowing what he's talking about. I find it surprising he's not familiar with the observing controls yet, which you should probably know after watching a couple replays, but he's already stated he's trying to get better with it, and his observing has improved quite a bit over these past few days.
As for "advice" I don't really have any. It seems a lot of the hiccups in the casting, such as calling out the wrong players names, not having much flow between games+interviews, and having to cut each other off as the game start are on Gom's end. It seems to me like the logistics of the tournament are completely centered around the Korean broadcast, which makes the English cast look artificially sloppy. I may be completely off base but it seems like there is a lack of communication going on as games often start while Artosis or Tasteless are in mid sentence. This has gotten better as the tournament has gone on, but it can still be jarring when one has to cut the other off because the countdown just began.
|
On September 10 2010 09:16 SuperGnu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 08:27 R0YAL wrote:On September 10 2010 08:21 Wargizmo wrote:On September 10 2010 07:01 SuperGnu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 10 2010 06:56 Nihilnovi wrote:
I actually turn the sound off because the quality of information and the manner in which it is relayed from both artosis and tasteless is extremely lackluster and just annoyed me. I can't see either having any future in casting.
The comments are usually really bad, they both talk at the same time constantly, too much of what they say is not related to the game itself but rather bad insider jokes between them which just made me go "wtf?"
The camera is horrible, especially when they zoom. The quality of the stream is horrible enough without zooming in on pixels as well as it's really bad on the eyes and confusing. The constant jumping around the map is not very viewer friendly either, and MANY MANY times they jump off to some random spot while I'm watching the minimap seeing two armies going at it while they go something like;
"Isn't that right about that one thing that one time at that one place with you and/or me and X random player"
"Sure is dude, sure is"
"Haha, yeah, it is"
"Haha yeah"
Overall, can't compare them to day9, hd and husky at mlg and iem. The sheer difference in quality of what's being said is just astounding. I don't know how I can be specific, it would be like telling someone directions to a building that we're both standing in front of.
You are so gona get ripped a new one by the TL community now. saying The supposed gods of casting (yea i know lol) dont have a future in casting AND comparing them to Husky and HD in the same post is just asking for it People in this community love to hate on HD and Husky because it's the popular thing to do. To be honest listening to Tasteless I don't get the impression that he knows much more about the game than either HD or Husky. Don't get me wrong, I like all three casters but people who weren't popular BW players/casters have to work a lot harder to get approval on TL. If you think thats the reason people dont like HD and Husky you are very wrong. People don't like them because they are bad.. Its that simple! People who can't see the bad however love them! These are the same people who are going 4 gate all-in every game in every mu or 1 base Terran the entire game. They are also same people who can't think more than 2 seconds into the future of the game that they are playing. Also in this case "bad = lack of knowledge." To be fair HD and Husky are pretty decent casters and have done a good deal for the community. They are better casters than I would be so I have no room to be pessimistic on that part but when I hear them say things that are far from true thats when I feel no remorse when saying that they have a lack of knowledge about the game. So you are saying tasteless is bad then? Check.
Kinda ad hominem to what the guy was saying dont you think? Also Husky always had the "approval of tl. Husky commentated bw for along time so he deserves the fans he has now. But some people just dont watch/like them. I for one to watch husky or hd since they lack knowelege of
strategies
|
On September 10 2010 07:09 JWD wrote:
The number one thing I'd like to see out of Artosis and Tasteless is for them to treat this more like a job and less like a hobby. By that I mean I'd like to see that they prepared for the matches before casting them. Many times they seem not to know anything about the players involved. Can we get some background, anecdotes, anything? This is the sort of stuff that is crucial to developing a young game — we need to know the players to root for them!
Overall I think Artosis and Tasteless make a good combo though. I'd love to see Artosis go as in-depth on strategy as he did in his BW commentaries.
I had to respond to this. I would like you to watch Idra's round 1 matches in the ro64 and tell me what you just said again. It completely proves you wrong. Artosis was talking about, in game 1m the strategy the terran could employ. He didn't in game one, but guess what, he did in game 2. Artosis predicted the player would be using ghosts to harass in TvZ via dropship etc which is extremely uncommon. That indicates he had "done his homework", what you're saying they don't do.
I completely disagree with you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
