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On September 06 2010 08:08 csfield wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 07:58 Zelniq wrote:
players just need to get over their mental roadblocks that tell them they cant tech to lair quicker than they have been definitely People like to mention differences between sc2 and broodwar but then they forget that in BW lair was always your first 100 gas against terran (even before speed). Even if it's necessary to get speed first in SC2, that doesn't mean you need to make 2 queens before getting lair.
It feels like zerg relies the most on super precise timings. In an interview, Madfrog spoke on this, effectively saying that we don't know the timings that will make zerg super formidable.
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My biggest hope for zerg is that we get burrow trained at the hatchery and roach regen activated at the lair like overlord creep.
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Small mistake in the op:
you have candidate 2 for both glial reconstitution and centrifugal hooks
Other than that, I would love to see candidate one implemented
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On September 06 2010 07:46 Effect010 wrote:
tier one burrow would be a very hudge change...especially when you dont have that many units so you can micro them well..you could kill 5 stalkers with about 3 or 4 roaches if you micro them well and they would have full hp in the end..and toss would not have any detection... bad idea
see, this type of thinking is just wrong
as it stands, in reverse positions 3-4 stalkers could kill an infinite number of roaches at tier 1, but thats fine
it would NOT break the game
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On September 06 2010 08:08 csfield wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 07:58 Zelniq wrote:
players just need to get over their mental roadblocks that tell them they cant tech to lair quicker than they have been People like to mention differences between sc2 and broodwar but then they forget that in BW lair was always your first 100 gas against terran (even before speed). Even if it's necessary to get speed first in SC2, that doesn't mean you need to make 2 queens before getting lair.
Hrm, this intrigues me.
Okay, so I just tested it out, my BO was 14 gas 13 pool, lair when pool finished (which was when I had 100 gas), roach warren at 18, and ovie at 18: and I was able to get 3 roaches out at 4:45 seconds.
Roach movement speed finished at 6:25, with 7 roaches out and 1 in que, and an expo half finished building.
Pretty sure I could tighten this up and have more roaches, too.. in fact i'm sure of that, because I started queen late and had a glut of minerals which I could have used on gas.
At 8 minutes I had 2 hatches + 18 roaches with burrow and movement.
I dunno, maybe you could be on to something. What do you guys think?
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While I like all 3 options, Candidate 1 (Overlord Speed) is the one I support the most. You bring up the pros and cons of it, and I definitely don't think it would be unbalanced when there are still so many other options the Zerg player could take. Zerg NEEDS to get a quicker ability to scout, especially at the early to mid game transition, which is usually when Overlord Speed is just starting to get researched.
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Overlord speed is nice because it zergs have a real internal struggle early- army or econ? Terran and Protoss do NOT have to deal with this the way zergs do, and can't truly understand how taxing that struggle is. Being able to upgrade OL speed earlier allows you to scout the map better, and that helps you decide whether you need to army up, or you can safely econ.
I think, in all honesty, I'd much prefer to see overseers morphable at hatchery. It allows you to still train your queen, it's 1-off meaning if it dies, it dies, but it also opens up the option to go more macro vs terran. If I do not see earlier aggression from a terran, 9/10 he's going for banshees and I have to race to lair because spore crawlers are just too expensive as detectors.
As far as baneling speed- I think it'd be overpowered (I'm zerg) because early on the only thing that really counters banelings is micro OR weak to zerglings (stalkers, mauraders, roaches.) With baneling speed, you take away the micro option. I do understand the gas demands would be heavy, baneling speed is expensive, but I still think it could make banelings a little too good in controlling the map and forcing your opponent to "turtle up."
Roach speed, I see that being a little more balanced, and it could help versus early aggression from the protoss. However, with the zealot build nerf coming up I don't see the 2-gate zealot spam being as brutal for zerg to deal with so I'm not sure what roach speed really does. Make it either to defend against mass reapers? Make them more usable on offense? Not sure I see the point- you'll have to get yourself to lair fairly quickly anyways to counter air, because queens cannot be effectively used on offense and are a bit limited when you are ping-ponging them between bases to defend.
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Tier 1 Centrifugal hooks would be...bad I think. The upgrade is pretty expensive, but having banelings with speed would be really devastating against early-game terran bio-play.
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On September 06 2010 08:08 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 08:03 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 07:46 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:34 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:33 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:30 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:24 nafta wrote:
Personally I think roach speed should be tier 1 and roaches in general should be buffed. You know im 99% sure that in phase 1 of the beta roach speed was hatchery tech, it got moved to lair with no reason, and I allways wondered why... but im really sure it was once hatchery tech, and it pissed me off ever since that it's not anymore. there was 3 roach upgrades back then and im sure there was one for each tier... The main complaint of Zerg players these days is the LACK of variety. Roaches in Phase 1 were the definition of an OP unit. While a buff may be in order, I think roaches are a LOT stronger than people give them credit for. The issue is that it requires really small timing windows, and we don't know the timing windows for every Terran build yet. you mean the none existing window with a 25 second ultra cheap tech lap on a early barrack for marauders ? I see new attacks ALL the time. Like every time I see a good zerg play, I'm amazed at the cute timings that exist. If you look at "oh he's got marauders, I'm screwed with roaches" mentality, then sure, zerg is UP. But if you say "Oh, I've got thirty roaches, and he has five marauders, I win." then you've got something powerful. These things exist, just people are often too afraid to try them out. You don't discover timings by macroing, you discover them by trying random attacks. There's never going to be a situation where the Z has 30 roaches and the T has 5 Marauder. Roaches are crap. They don't work. Trust me, I've tried. The only use they have is defending versus Reaper harass and even then Reapers outrun and out-range Roaches. Because you're a pro player. I don't care about anecdotal experience. I care about what I have seen pro players do. Pros matter infinitely more to me than your opinion, and if a pro can do that push, then it works, to me. You opinion is apparently different. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers.
You're discarding my opinion because I don't get paid to play. 99% of the users on TL don't get paid either. Your loss.
Read what I'm saying and you'll learn something.
Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers.
By the time a Z can research the Roach speed upgrade, Reapers aren't being produced anymore anyway as they aren't worth the investment because they can't do anymore successful economical harassment damage. Therefore, Roach speed isn't worth the investment either unless the Z has overproduced them which he shouldn't have done in the first place.
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On September 06 2010 08:57 Fantistic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 08:08 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 08:03 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 07:46 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:34 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:33 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:30 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:24 nafta wrote:
Personally I think roach speed should be tier 1 and roaches in general should be buffed. You know im 99% sure that in phase 1 of the beta roach speed was hatchery tech, it got moved to lair with no reason, and I allways wondered why... but im really sure it was once hatchery tech, and it pissed me off ever since that it's not anymore. there was 3 roach upgrades back then and im sure there was one for each tier... The main complaint of Zerg players these days is the LACK of variety. Roaches in Phase 1 were the definition of an OP unit. While a buff may be in order, I think roaches are a LOT stronger than people give them credit for. The issue is that it requires really small timing windows, and we don't know the timing windows for every Terran build yet. you mean the none existing window with a 25 second ultra cheap tech lap on a early barrack for marauders ? I see new attacks ALL the time. Like every time I see a good zerg play, I'm amazed at the cute timings that exist. If you look at "oh he's got marauders, I'm screwed with roaches" mentality, then sure, zerg is UP. But if you say "Oh, I've got thirty roaches, and he has five marauders, I win." then you've got something powerful. These things exist, just people are often too afraid to try them out. You don't discover timings by macroing, you discover them by trying random attacks. There's never going to be a situation where the Z has 30 roaches and the T has 5 Marauder. Roaches are crap. They don't work. Trust me, I've tried. The only use they have is defending versus Reaper harass and even then Reapers outrun and out-range Roaches. Because you're a pro player. I don't care about anecdotal experience. I care about what I have seen pro players do. Pros matter infinitely more to me than your opinion, and if a pro can do that push, then it works, to me. You opinion is apparently different. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers. You're discarding my opinion because I don't get paid to play. 99% of the users on TL don't get paid either. Your loss. Read what I'm saying and you'll learn something. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers.By the time a Z can research the Roach speed upgrade, Reapers aren't being produced anymore anyway as they aren't worth the investment because they can't do anymore successful economical harassment damage. Therefore, Roach speed isn't worth the investment either unless the Z has overproduced them which he shouldn't have done in the first place.
I don't care what most of the people on TL think either. My primary concern is the competitive/esports scene of this game. You saying "X doesn't work" doesn't mean much when I've seen a pro player do it on several occasions. I can say "Templar are UP" because I suck at placing storms, and it means nothing. I can say "banelings are OP" because I suck at microing my infantry back, when in fact they're perfectly fine. And being paid to play wasn't exactly what I meant. I mean that you are at a pro level. Day9 is at a pro level, but isn't paid to play.
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On September 06 2010 07:16 Sirot wrote:As an example, when a Terran players finishes researching Stimpack and moves out with his or her Marine/Marauder composition, the Terran player gains the ability to do a powerful timing attack. Both Protoss and Terran usually can gain access to the upgrades to their units very shortly after getting access to that specific unit.
I dont agree with this your three first main upgrades are available for tier one units melee, range and carapace these are your staple upgrades. The same as for Terran and Protoss as long as you build and engineering bay, forge or evolution chamber. The more specialist upgrades that vastly change how a unit behaves rather than its attack, armour etc are at least for protoss at higher levels (blink and charge you need a twilight council). The only one i can think of off the top of my head that is available is hallucinate for the 1.5 tier sentry and well warpgate. Yes there are air upgrades in the cyber core but arent much use till you build stargates anyway.
You may have a point with terran though. From a protoss point of view dealing with stim early is nasty and I feel it would be the same for fast overlord drops and speed roaches too especially considering that zealots build time is being increased. Getting burrow way before Protoss could build a robo facility and observer would be ridiculous though.
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On September 06 2010 09:03 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 08:57 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 08:08 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 08:03 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 07:46 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:34 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:33 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:30 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:24 nafta wrote:
Personally I think roach speed should be tier 1 and roaches in general should be buffed. You know im 99% sure that in phase 1 of the beta roach speed was hatchery tech, it got moved to lair with no reason, and I allways wondered why... but im really sure it was once hatchery tech, and it pissed me off ever since that it's not anymore. there was 3 roach upgrades back then and im sure there was one for each tier... The main complaint of Zerg players these days is the LACK of variety. Roaches in Phase 1 were the definition of an OP unit. While a buff may be in order, I think roaches are a LOT stronger than people give them credit for. The issue is that it requires really small timing windows, and we don't know the timing windows for every Terran build yet. you mean the none existing window with a 25 second ultra cheap tech lap on a early barrack for marauders ? I see new attacks ALL the time. Like every time I see a good zerg play, I'm amazed at the cute timings that exist. If you look at "oh he's got marauders, I'm screwed with roaches" mentality, then sure, zerg is UP. But if you say "Oh, I've got thirty roaches, and he has five marauders, I win." then you've got something powerful. These things exist, just people are often too afraid to try them out. You don't discover timings by macroing, you discover them by trying random attacks. There's never going to be a situation where the Z has 30 roaches and the T has 5 Marauder. Roaches are crap. They don't work. Trust me, I've tried. The only use they have is defending versus Reaper harass and even then Reapers outrun and out-range Roaches. Because you're a pro player. I don't care about anecdotal experience. I care about what I have seen pro players do. Pros matter infinitely more to me than your opinion, and if a pro can do that push, then it works, to me. You opinion is apparently different. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers. You're discarding my opinion because I don't get paid to play. 99% of the users on TL don't get paid either. Your loss. Read what I'm saying and you'll learn something. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers.By the time a Z can research the Roach speed upgrade, Reapers aren't being produced anymore anyway as they aren't worth the investment because they can't do anymore successful economical harassment damage. Therefore, Roach speed isn't worth the investment either unless the Z has overproduced them which he shouldn't have done in the first place. I don't care what most of the people on TL think either. My primary concern is the competitive/esports scene of this game. You saying "X doesn't work" doesn't mean much when I've seen a pro player do it on several occasions. I can say "Templar are UP" because I suck at placing storms, and it means nothing. I can say "banelings are OP" because I suck at microing my infantry back, when in fact they're perfectly fine. And being paid to play wasn't exactly what I meant. I mean that you are at a pro level. Day9 is at a pro level, but isn't paid to play.
You've lost me now.
"Because you're a pro player." wasn't sarcasm?
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On September 06 2010 09:11 Fantistic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 09:03 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 08:57 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 08:08 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 08:03 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 07:46 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:34 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:33 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:30 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:24 nafta wrote:
Personally I think roach speed should be tier 1 and roaches in general should be buffed. You know im 99% sure that in phase 1 of the beta roach speed was hatchery tech, it got moved to lair with no reason, and I allways wondered why... but im really sure it was once hatchery tech, and it pissed me off ever since that it's not anymore. there was 3 roach upgrades back then and im sure there was one for each tier... The main complaint of Zerg players these days is the LACK of variety. Roaches in Phase 1 were the definition of an OP unit. While a buff may be in order, I think roaches are a LOT stronger than people give them credit for. The issue is that it requires really small timing windows, and we don't know the timing windows for every Terran build yet. you mean the none existing window with a 25 second ultra cheap tech lap on a early barrack for marauders ? I see new attacks ALL the time. Like every time I see a good zerg play, I'm amazed at the cute timings that exist. If you look at "oh he's got marauders, I'm screwed with roaches" mentality, then sure, zerg is UP. But if you say "Oh, I've got thirty roaches, and he has five marauders, I win." then you've got something powerful. These things exist, just people are often too afraid to try them out. You don't discover timings by macroing, you discover them by trying random attacks. There's never going to be a situation where the Z has 30 roaches and the T has 5 Marauder. Roaches are crap. They don't work. Trust me, I've tried. The only use they have is defending versus Reaper harass and even then Reapers outrun and out-range Roaches. Because you're a pro player. I don't care about anecdotal experience. I care about what I have seen pro players do. Pros matter infinitely more to me than your opinion, and if a pro can do that push, then it works, to me. You opinion is apparently different. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers. You're discarding my opinion because I don't get paid to play. 99% of the users on TL don't get paid either. Your loss. Read what I'm saying and you'll learn something. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers.By the time a Z can research the Roach speed upgrade, Reapers aren't being produced anymore anyway as they aren't worth the investment because they can't do anymore successful economical harassment damage. Therefore, Roach speed isn't worth the investment either unless the Z has overproduced them which he shouldn't have done in the first place. I don't care what most of the people on TL think either. My primary concern is the competitive/esports scene of this game. You saying "X doesn't work" doesn't mean much when I've seen a pro player do it on several occasions. I can say "Templar are UP" because I suck at placing storms, and it means nothing. I can say "banelings are OP" because I suck at microing my infantry back, when in fact they're perfectly fine. And being paid to play wasn't exactly what I meant. I mean that you are at a pro level. Day9 is at a pro level, but isn't paid to play. You've lost me now. "Because you're a pro player." wasn't sarcasm? It was. Sorry if I'm a bit confusing. My house is currently one hundred degrees as my AC froze up. >.>
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Overlord speed upgrade is the one I most favour. That ridiculously long period of completely no scouting combined with the 1001 different units Terran can tech to is killer.
On another thought, how about giving all Zerg units burrow innately without research as long as they are on creep? I think it would lead to some extra early game defensive strategies and help Zerg stave off early aggression.
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On September 06 2010 09:14 Cyclon wrote:
Overlord speed upgrade is the one I most favour. That ridiculously long period of completely no scouting combined with the 1001 different units Terran can tech to is killer.
On another thought, how about giving all Zerg units burrow innately without research as long as they are on creep? I think it would lead to some extra early game defensive strategies and help Zerg stave off early aggression.
The issue with that would be that it would make Zerg effectively immune to early game harass, without detection. It's not entirely bad, it stops mining time and whatnot, but it seems pretty abusable.
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On September 06 2010 09:13 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 09:11 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 09:03 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 08:57 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 08:08 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 08:03 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 07:46 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:34 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:33 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:30 Salvarias wrote:
[quote]
You know im 99% sure that in phase 1 of the beta roach speed was hatchery tech, it got moved to lair with no reason, and I allways wondered why... but im really sure it was once hatchery tech, and it pissed me off ever since that it's not anymore.
there was 3 roach upgrades back then and im sure there was one for each tier... The main complaint of Zerg players these days is the LACK of variety. Roaches in Phase 1 were the definition of an OP unit. While a buff may be in order, I think roaches are a LOT stronger than people give them credit for. The issue is that it requires really small timing windows, and we don't know the timing windows for every Terran build yet. you mean the none existing window with a 25 second ultra cheap tech lap on a early barrack for marauders ? I see new attacks ALL the time. Like every time I see a good zerg play, I'm amazed at the cute timings that exist. If you look at "oh he's got marauders, I'm screwed with roaches" mentality, then sure, zerg is UP. But if you say "Oh, I've got thirty roaches, and he has five marauders, I win." then you've got something powerful. These things exist, just people are often too afraid to try them out. You don't discover timings by macroing, you discover them by trying random attacks. There's never going to be a situation where the Z has 30 roaches and the T has 5 Marauder. Roaches are crap. They don't work. Trust me, I've tried. The only use they have is defending versus Reaper harass and even then Reapers outrun and out-range Roaches. Because you're a pro player. I don't care about anecdotal experience. I care about what I have seen pro players do. Pros matter infinitely more to me than your opinion, and if a pro can do that push, then it works, to me. You opinion is apparently different. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers. You're discarding my opinion because I don't get paid to play. 99% of the users on TL don't get paid either. Your loss. Read what I'm saying and you'll learn something. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers.By the time a Z can research the Roach speed upgrade, Reapers aren't being produced anymore anyway as they aren't worth the investment because they can't do anymore successful economical harassment damage. Therefore, Roach speed isn't worth the investment either unless the Z has overproduced them which he shouldn't have done in the first place. I don't care what most of the people on TL think either. My primary concern is the competitive/esports scene of this game. You saying "X doesn't work" doesn't mean much when I've seen a pro player do it on several occasions. I can say "Templar are UP" because I suck at placing storms, and it means nothing. I can say "banelings are OP" because I suck at microing my infantry back, when in fact they're perfectly fine. And being paid to play wasn't exactly what I meant. I mean that you are at a pro level. Day9 is at a pro level, but isn't paid to play. You've lost me now. "Because you're a pro player." wasn't sarcasm? It was. Sorry if I'm a bit confusing. My house is currently one hundred degrees as my AC froze up. >.>
I see you won't read my posts seriously as I'm a "no name" to you so I'll just say this:
Try to think things through yourself rather than relying on what the "pros" are doing. Most of them make a lot of mistakes because the game is still very young so you'll end up copying their mistakes.
Don't take offence to this; it's just advice.
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On September 06 2010 09:21 Fantistic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 09:13 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 09:11 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 09:03 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 08:57 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 08:08 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 08:03 Fantistic wrote:On September 06 2010 07:46 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 07:34 Salvarias wrote:On September 06 2010 07:33 MythicalMage wrote:
[quote]
The main complaint of Zerg players these days is the LACK of variety. Roaches in Phase 1 were the definition of an OP unit. While a buff may be in order, I think roaches are a LOT stronger than people give them credit for. The issue is that it requires really small timing windows, and we don't know the timing windows for every Terran build yet. you mean the none existing window with a 25 second ultra cheap tech lap on a early barrack for marauders ? I see new attacks ALL the time. Like every time I see a good zerg play, I'm amazed at the cute timings that exist. If you look at "oh he's got marauders, I'm screwed with roaches" mentality, then sure, zerg is UP. But if you say "Oh, I've got thirty roaches, and he has five marauders, I win." then you've got something powerful. These things exist, just people are often too afraid to try them out. You don't discover timings by macroing, you discover them by trying random attacks. There's never going to be a situation where the Z has 30 roaches and the T has 5 Marauder. Roaches are crap. They don't work. Trust me, I've tried. The only use they have is defending versus Reaper harass and even then Reapers outrun and out-range Roaches. Because you're a pro player. I don't care about anecdotal experience. I care about what I have seen pro players do. Pros matter infinitely more to me than your opinion, and if a pro can do that push, then it works, to me. You opinion is apparently different. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers. You're discarding my opinion because I don't get paid to play. 99% of the users on TL don't get paid either. Your loss. Read what I'm saying and you'll learn something. Also of note: on creep, speed roaches are FASTER than speed reapers.By the time a Z can research the Roach speed upgrade, Reapers aren't being produced anymore anyway as they aren't worth the investment because they can't do anymore successful economical harassment damage. Therefore, Roach speed isn't worth the investment either unless the Z has overproduced them which he shouldn't have done in the first place. I don't care what most of the people on TL think either. My primary concern is the competitive/esports scene of this game. You saying "X doesn't work" doesn't mean much when I've seen a pro player do it on several occasions. I can say "Templar are UP" because I suck at placing storms, and it means nothing. I can say "banelings are OP" because I suck at microing my infantry back, when in fact they're perfectly fine. And being paid to play wasn't exactly what I meant. I mean that you are at a pro level. Day9 is at a pro level, but isn't paid to play. You've lost me now. "Because you're a pro player." wasn't sarcasm? It was. Sorry if I'm a bit confusing. My house is currently one hundred degrees as my AC froze up. >.> I see you won't read my posts seriously as I'm a "no name" to you so I'll just say this: Try to think things through yourself rather than relying on what the "pros" are doing. Most of them make a lot of mistakes because the game is still very young so you'll end up copying their mistakes. Don't take offence to this; it's just advice. Sure. I've read your posts, just someone saying "you can't do x" when I've seen x be done in a high level game doesn't strike me as accurate.
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I like Overlord Speed at tier1, I think it would solve at least one of Zerg's major problems (Scouting options). If you FE and get Lair at the same time as the OV speed, it could open up a pretty brutal drop timing if you start the Transport tech ASAP. On one base, the timing to get drops wouldn't change since you can't Lair and research at the same time, but on 2 bases, drops could come a good deal faster than the other races if you opt for quick double+ gas.
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On September 06 2010 09:15 MythicalMage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 09:14 Cyclon wrote:
Overlord speed upgrade is the one I most favour. That ridiculously long period of completely no scouting combined with the 1001 different units Terran can tech to is killer.
On another thought, how about giving all Zerg units burrow innately without research as long as they are on creep? I think it would lead to some extra early game defensive strategies and help Zerg stave off early aggression. The issue with that would be that it would make Zerg effectively immune to early game harass, without detection. It's not entirely bad, it stops mining time and whatnot, but it seems pretty abusable.
Hmm immune to early game harass. Sounds a lot like terran to me, and I don't remember anyone saying nerf wall ins because they prevent early game harass.
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On September 06 2010 09:36 AssuredVacancy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 09:15 MythicalMage wrote:On September 06 2010 09:14 Cyclon wrote:
Overlord speed upgrade is the one I most favour. That ridiculously long period of completely no scouting combined with the 1001 different units Terran can tech to is killer.
On another thought, how about giving all Zerg units burrow innately without research as long as they are on creep? I think it would lead to some extra early game defensive strategies and help Zerg stave off early aggression. The issue with that would be that it would make Zerg effectively immune to early game harass, without detection. It's not entirely bad, it stops mining time and whatnot, but it seems pretty abusable. Hmm immune to early game harass. Sounds a lot like terran to me, and I don't remember anyone saying nerf wall ins because they prevent early game harass.
Wall ins stop mutalisks? Wall in stop banshees? Wall ins stop reapers? Wall ins stop void rays? /sigh. It amazes me how much people LOVE mentioning the wall in. If there was ANY way for me to win/function without a wallin, I would.(I play random, but I've been favoring Terran and Protoss recently, due to my sucking at zerg mechanics.) I avoid them entirely in the other matchups, but I HAVE to not die to speedlings.
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EPT
