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What I want from MLG is a clearly presented and easy to find vod section!!! This is SOOO important. I dont care whether you spam with ads, I`d watch them, not everybody in other timezones is able to watch until 5 am f.e.
i know iem isnt on the "friends list" of mlg, but i guess they got a ton of views on those vods. also huskies and hds huge subscriberbase is used to vods!! theres a HUUUUGE audience just waiting on you.
also about commentary. Theres not much to cry about. HD and Husky were good/average, not a comparison to you and d9, but i guess this is caused by my manlove for sean 
whatever, just keep it up, thats the most important thing (...and the vod stuff)
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On August 30 2010 03:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
I didn't read the thread so sorry if someone said this.
This is something sorely missing: GAME SOUND.
All I could hear were casters voices. Many people want to be able to hear the pew pew lasers and explosions. It's all about immersion!
This is an easy fix and it helps so much to make casts more exciting
really good point!!!!
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As much as I like day9 I enjoyed listening to HD and Husky more because they bring more hype. I mean after HuK won the grand final it seemed like it was just any random match. Husky has such a great voice for casting. I hope he never goes away. PainUser is probably my favorite for casting. He is super knowledgeable about the game so he always sees things that most other casters dont. It would be great to see him cast some when he isnt playing.
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On August 30 2010 03:52 Obstbaum wrote:What I want from MLG is a clearly presented and easy to find vod section!!! This is SOOO important. I dont care whether you spam with ads, I`d watch them, not everybody in other timezones is able to watch until 5 am f.e. i know iem isnt on the "friends list" of mlg, but i guess they got a ton of views on those vods. also huskies and hds huge subscriberbase is used to vods!! theres a HUUUUGE audience just waiting on you. also about commentary. Theres not much to cry about. HD and Husky were good/average, not a comparison to you and d9, but i guess this is caused by my manlove for sean whatever, just keep it up, thats the most important thing (...and the vod stuff)
Vod's will be up in a few days/weeks.
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About HD and Husky.
I feel like HD and Husky have a lot of good characteristics, including emotion and energy. However, when it comes to game knowledge, they are significantly lacking. I think if they hung around top players or got better at the game, it would be to everyone's benefit. And from a business angle, If they continue to stagnate, other casters will take their subscribers/fans over time.
Another thing I want to mention is, they need to watch the minimap like a hawk. They tend to miss crucial moments, even when there is nothing going on, because they are distracted by trying to talk about the meta game (which they coincidently know little about).
I'm glad these two stepped up and are driving the sc2 esports community. But if they don't up their game, they will eventually lose their subscribers to better casters.
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HD and Husky needs to cast with more experience on the game. It's hard to listen to a caster that doesn't have good knowledge of the game. Better casters more hype = better response and more views.
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I enjoyed the tournament. after trying to get up so early for IEM I enjoyed a tournament that was set to my time zone.
To me the live blogger that was right next to the stream was the best. Let me get a feel for the tournament. The only thing in my head that would be kool is more filming. i like the format and the fact that there was missed games i don't want to blame the format.
I like the booth idea and for the commentator and spectators to be close to each other.
only thing i could think of that would be really cool would be a recap at the end of the day with highlights of the passing day.
also extending the tourney over the whole weekend if you're still going to be set up there.
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Maybe I'm the only one, but I found the bracket system really confusing. Like it was a tournament but didn't seem like it had a easy to follow structure, everything was just called "winner bracket". Any chance of a graphical bracket shown after every casted game to make it easier to follow?
Oh and VOD section should be really easy to use when it gets online.
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Not sure if anyone has said this, but not everyone knows the player's faces. On the overlay thing on the bottom right of the stream maybe have some sort of way to say who is actually being shown on the screen, that or make them wear name tags on their foreheads =P
Other than that it was really fun to watch for the most part, MLG is always a good viewing experience because the standard free stream tends to be really good.
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Great first tournament overall, but I felt like you could've had a better stage (gaming booths?) for the players to play on instead of facing each other on a big table. Also, the spectators had to sit on the ground and it just looked silly.
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It might be cool to have player bios - maybe not all, just the players who make it to the later brackets. Sort of like they do before a UFC fight or even world series of poker. Something to amp up the crowd, give us a personal connection to them.
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I was at MLG Raleigh NC and I enjoyed the tournament. I would of enjoyed seeing more interaction from Day9 to his fans. HD also never bothered to talk to fans. Husky did a great job interacting with everyone, props to him. That is all.
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Hey, guys. Great job! I enjoyed the show immensely and will be sure to check in next time.
With that said, here's your constructive criticism.
1) The Stream
I ordered the HD stream and I must say I was impressed with quality. While it wasn't the best resolution, it was consistent and that's what's most important. If I was watching a regular television production, I would be flustered with the various cuts in and out that normally come with an internet stream. However, I was glad to see these were nowhere to be found. This would make it perfect to stream onto a television (which I haven't done... yet).
However, I was a little distressed with the "HD" branding. With HD, I would expect at least 720p quality, which, of course, is not what I received. Perhaps "High Quality", or "HQ" is a better term? Though that does make it sound less appealing to the general public.
Also, the HD preview did not do the HD stream justice. In fact, it appeared to be of similar quality to the regular stream and made me nervous to purchase HD. I did it anyway, and it was much better than the preview. The preview didn't have the consistency I previously mentioned and also seemed to be at a lower resolution. Perhaps it was my setup? I'm running Safari 5.0.1 on OS X, if that helps at all. A side-by-side comparison would also be great to see the benefits of the HD stream.
Finally, the fullscreen mode is a bit bugged. I'm pretty sure the reason behind this is that it assumes you have a 16 : 9 ratio on your monitor and fullscreens to this size, cutting off the edges. Unfortunately for me, I (as well as all recent Macbook Pro users) have a 16:10 ratio. Therefore, my minimap and supply count were cut off pretty horrifically in fullscreen mode. This was very frustrating. I ended up relying on the built-in zoom functionality to fullscreen the stream but it was an awkward and unsatisfying solution. I definitely would like this to be fixed in the future (most probably with letterboxing). I just feel bad for the 4:3 crowd.
2) The Casters
Overall, I loved the work of the casters. Everyone was pretty awesome so thanks for showing up! However, some casters are definitely more experienced than others. This is why I really liked it when Day (who is, or at least seems, the most experienced) got an opportunity to cast with both HD and Husky. This definitely helped HD and Husky learn to flow a little bit better and it was noticeable how their casting duties were improved after this time. While this obviously won't be as much an issue in the future, it is definitely a good idea to pair new casters up with veterans sooner, rather than later. HD and Husky's first match was amusing as someone who has been following them for the past few months, though a bit awkward and unprofessional (they were a bit weak on filling time). However, they did a great job and it was good to see them improve over the course of the event.
I also loved the idea of mixing up casters on another front. After watching countless hours of the IEM, it tends to all to blend together and become a contiguous blob of matches. However, with multiple casting teams (and mixes between those teams), each match has a much better chance of taking on a life of its own for the viewers. 9 hours of Starcraft is a lot easier to parse in this manner. While I would recommend not bringing on too many casters, I really did like this blending.
Also, on a side note, I thought the blazers were a bit... weird. It doesn't really seem to fit the casters, or the event, particularly well. Husky definitely seemed the most at home, though definitely seemed out-of-place as he was the only one left out. Someone previously mentioned MLG-branded polos... definitely not a bad idea. I also think this adds consistency, where blazers do not. Day[9] and JP looked great during the Countdown Party, if only because they were consistent. This is more important than looking formal, I would say. Also, formal done wrong is... meh. I'm the type of person who either dresses in street clothes or dresses in a full suit so perhaps my opinion in this matter is moot.
3) The Tournament
Let's start with the format. Double elimination is great from a player's perspective but is dislikable from a spectator's standpoint. This is because so much happens in the background which makes it extremely hard to follow, and even harder to appreciate your favorite players. For example, in this tournament, I was particularly interested in watching NonY (or should I say, Tee-ler  ) and qxc play a few games. However, if I remember correctly, I got one of each (which were mediocre matches at best), before they suddenly dropped to the loser's bracket, and then out of the tournament. Not only that, but the news of their status was extremely hard to come by. Only briefly mentioned by the casters, and put on a terrible bracket on gotfrag, I only knew what games they played and where they were at after they were already out of the tournament, which was a bit disappointing. While this let me broaden my horizons with new players (which I always like - can you say, "Mothership"?), I didn't really get to see what I mainly came here to watch.
This can probably be alleviated through a caster specifically placed to find out what's happening in games not being casted, and the results of said games. After each casted match, the camera could cut to this caster and he can explain the results of the matches as well as any spectacular parts of these matches (with, dare I say, short replays?). Also, a up-to-date bracket could be presented with the upcoming matches listed, so I don't have to leave the stream to find out what the current status of the tournament is. While JP started to add this to the stream (which I am grateful for), I felt it was mediocre at best in this format (especially using the broken bracket gotfrag provided). This would be great for the double-elimination format, as well as filling time! 
Moving on, the "grand finals" didn't really feel... grand. I'm not sure if this was due to the format (makes the semis feel more like a hodge-podge of games rather than standard tournament styles), or the lack of any large stage ceremony, ala IEM. I would definitely say IEM overdid it, however. For MLG though, it seemed to lack the epicness the Halo finals often provide. While this is a small gripe, I think it can be easily fixed in the future with a little more polish here and there.
On another note, I also liked the interviews. I think they added a bit of polish to the event, and give a more down to earth view on the players themselves. It was great hearing HuK speak as it gave me a bit more respect for both his play and for him as a person. I really liked these, and I think there can definitely be more of this in the future (though some others do not seem to agree with me). Also, just for a brief comparison, it seems a lot more relevant for these interviews on Starcraft players rather than traditional sports interviews. In football, for example, a wide receiver doesn't get the full picture like the spectators/casters do. It's also cliché and pretty obvious what he's going to say ("They played well, and we could have played better, we'll try harder for next year!"). With Starcraft, it gives a lot of insight spectators aren't often given. I really like that. With that said, I definitely would say be a little more prepared for interviews in terms of questions to ask. Also, stray away from cliché, or else every interview will come out the same way, which is definitely something to avoid.
Finally, I definitely liked the inclusion of lesser-known players. however, their coverage needs to be a little more formatted. It was terrible to see NonY's first match against j3tty. It only made me feel bad for him and gave me a boring spectator experience. While it's not a bad idea to cast these players (they need their time too), a little research should be done into the more promising players of the bunch and air those games over those of the weaker players.
4) The Extras
The Map Previews - These were... meh. A good idea, executed poorly. While these gave a good overview of basic strategy, they were unfulfilling at best. These zoomed in and moved around too much which made it difficult to follow on the scale of the entire map, in order to see the full picture. The voice over also seemed apathetic, and truthfully, it was a bit laughable. Perhaps these map overviews can be done by the casters themselves (considering Day covered all of this information and more while he spoke after the video). This could make it more relevant to each match, as specifics of how each player could abuse the terrain, due to their race and playstyle, could be added (like how HD kept mentioning about the clever pylon placement on Delta Quadrant). Perhaps an overlay could be used for the casters to point at, circle, and highlight information on a given map. So, again, it was a good idea, especially for less experienced players and casual observers, but not executed very well.
The Crowd - They are an awesome force to be reckoned with. They can make the difference in a concert, in a sporting event, but most importantly, in a Starcraft match. The roar of a crowd adds a tension unlike any other. They most certainly need to be miced. I regret not being able to hear their thunder when Socke's fleet beacon appeared, nevermind his glorious mothership. The crowd is a tool to not only excite me but to send shivers down my spine. This is a must for future events. Also, the spectator setup did not seem optimal. If I was at the event, I probably would have been a little less than pleased at the setup.
The Production Tab - While additional screen clutter is less than satisfactory, I do really like when the production tab is shown on screen. It helps find what the casters miss (and would help them miss less), as nobody is perfect. I noticed HD and Husky had it on much more frequently than Day and JP, and I noticed I was a bit happier with this in their matches. This is still a questionable position in casting, however, especially for a live event. It would make the discovery of the fleet beacon less impressive as some people would already have seen it coming, nevermind the mothership's appearance. So in that sense, it's worse for a crowd environment, where we are all in it together. So actually, it has its pros and cons. Perhaps it should be visited more often by the casters, however, not left on at all times?
The Camera Angles - I definitely miss seeing the upgrades on the bottom right corner of the screen when a tech lab is selected. It makes it that much more difficult to know if the player got stim or not, which is a distressing feeling. I definitely don't mind seeing the players, in fact, I welcome it, it's just that I want to know about those damn upgrades! Perhaps Blizzard should add current upgrade tab to the caster's toolset? O.o I think this would, by far, be the best solution. If anyone can make it happen, you guys can. Also, as I've begun to notice, players usually don't react all that much to situations in the game, particularly early/mid-game. Sometimes I feel it would be better to mix up the shots. Keyboard/behind-the-back shots would be awesome. It makes the experience much cooler for people who follow Starcraft, as well as more impressive to players who are more casual observers. The occasional first person view would not be unwelcome either. Post-game camera shots are also welcome (immediately after the gg).
In the end, I was highly impressed for a first effort and I can't wait to see how you improve with upcoming events. Thanks, once more, for an awesome event and good luck in the future!
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On August 29 2010 22:37 Affluenza wrote:
I hate the format...double elimination is poor format.
I also felt robbed of a proper final...I'm sorry but the concept that a final can be played with a player having a defecit or set advantage is not a proper final...
This.
I also didn't notice at the time, but I consider game sound (minus music) essential. Perhaps in the future an auto-volume situation can be set up where the in-game sounds are slightly louder when the commentators aren't talking?
Liked the commentator switching thing you did, that was really brilliant as the SCII community is really torn between two sets and styles. Variation is also always brilliant and probably kept the commentators a bit more fresh.
As much as I am loathe to admit it, HD and Husky need to buy a ton of Coffee and ladder as Random and memorize all the common openings and such for each race. Also, some playing around in unit tester so that they can get a real feel for what units win in what situations. I am also really sick of hearing things like "that was an early gas..." when it was a totally standard gas for a totally standard build.
Overall I still love them, though.
An actual HD stream in "HD" such as "720p" would have been nice.
The biggest problems were totally out of your control.
a) MIRROR MATCHES SUCK. FIX THIS BLIZZARD FIX THIS.
b) I really think Blizzard should allow spectators to zoom out slightly more than players can, as it would just make spectating so much more enjoyable to me. I understand limiting FOV for players, as it adds a skill element, but I feel like when I'm spectating I just want to be able to see just a weeee bit more.
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I have a few thoughts regarding the event, as a SCII fan in the Raleigh area who went to the event. Most people already covered all the comments regarding the casters, format, etc, so these are mostly with regards to the event itself live.
Overall MLG Thoughts:
- Maybe I just felt more isolated being a PC-only gamer and all the other games console, but it really felt like each game had their own section where people really didn't stray between (well, the Tekken 6 and SSBB crowds went back and forth, but beyond that...). Rather than one big tournament with multiple matches going on, it felt like five different tournaments going on in their separate areas with some vendors/sponsors hanging around being the only common theme, and in turn felt like five different communities rather than one big one.
- When I first saw the massive Halo 3 setup/stage, my initial thoughts were "Ah wow, that's an awesome finals setup"... and then was confused and disappointed when that was just all Halo all the time. Have you thought about staggering the finals matchups for each game so they can all take advantage of that rather nice setup you've got going in the middle there? This also seemed to help keep each gaming group isolated, as each game basically had a different setup and style. This also relates to each tournament having a seemingly different setup from each other.
- It might be a good idea to have a small booth setup for information. I had a few quick questions, but there didn't seem to many staff around (well, besides on stage or in the gaming area).
StarCraft Specific Thoughts:
- I went to this event primarily to watch SCII, and possibly check out some other events... and I just feel that I wasted my $25. The 'spectating area', such as it was, was really bad. There were two small benches in front of a rather nice projection (I will say that was good), and as folks saw on the stream the majority of people there ended up sitting on the floor. The audio was atrocious (see below), and we didn't even get to watch the commentators directly - we were actually just watching the stream, complete with ads! This was utterly bewildering to me, as I'd come to the event hoping to catch some awesome pro SC action, and realizing that I would be able to see the game much better by simply going home and firing up the stream on my PC. I actually did spend most of the second day sitting in a nearby cafe watching the stream rather than bother with the actual event (I did head down there for the finals).
- I hope this won't be taken as outright complaining, but you need to flog your sound guy, as the sound was non-existent at first and then once it did get going was either way too low or kept cutting out intermittently. This was also made even more frustrating by how loud the Halo 3 stage was in comparison (which was nearby). I didn't mind that so much as Halo 3 is obviously the big draw of the MLG tournament, and I would say the sound was at the right level for them, but being able to hear it anywhere in the convention center, when compared to barely being able to hear the commentators from five feet away for SCII, really demonstrated how bad our audio really was.
- If I understand correctly, the idea behind the individual MLG events is to pick the final competitors for a big MLG Championship at the end of the year, and that's not a bad setup - but as we saw it makes the finals a bit less exciting. It might be a good idea to consider going from double-elimination to a more straightforward setup once you reach 4 or 8 players. It also might not be a bad idea, once you have a stable set of seeded pro players, to have more single-elimination rounds first between the non-seeded/non-invite players, just to hopefully avoid all of the early games being one-sided massacres.
Suggestions for the Spectating Area:
- I guess my main question before I make suggestions would be... is the goal with the MLG to broadcast these tournaments, while at the same time allowing some diehard fans to see the tournaments in action (like a tv station almost), or is the goal to actually have this be a live spectator sport? If it's the former, there's really little I have to add, as it was actually very well set up in that regards - the separate commentator's booth/section/area kept them looking very professional, and the stream itself looked quite good. The only thing I would then add is more of a stage/area for the finals rather than just picking a spot within the basic 64-PC setup and playing from there. There should probably also be some kind of sound-proofing for the players, as I have to imagine it was pretty easy to hear the crowd).
- If you are going for more of a spectator sport - it would've been better (imo, of course) to have had the spectators shifted around 90 degrees and facing the crowd directly. Rather than watch the internet stream slightly less delayed, we should be watching the commentators live, with a display above or nearby them showing the game they're commentating on at all times. That would allow the crowd to get much more involved in the event than they were (save the one time Day9 came out and addressed us directly). It's difficult to get involved in an event (barring the lack of seats/audio/poor planning of the area) when you don't really get to see the event happening.
- It might even be good to have multiple games showing up, and especially earlier on when there's a ton of games going on, allowing the casters to switch between games when there's a particularly good one going on.
In Conclusion...
I will say again that the stream itself was solid, the commentating was great (even HDH, they keep it exciting and work very well together even if the game knowledge isn't quite there yet - and don't force Husky into a suit, he'd look more ridiculous in one than out), and the gameplay when it got going was great. Hopefully my post wasn't too negative - I really would like to see more MLG games, and more SCII tournament action for that matter, in the US (and in the Raleigh area).
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Fantasticly run event, no problem with the streams... Not sure how hes i supposed to make the crowd better like some are suggesting?
Only thing i would think would be intense is multiple streams so we can see more matches. There were alot of really good matchups that werent streamed, so maybe have a day 9 /JP stream an HD/Husky stream, streaming different games so that we can choose which to watch and get more exposure to games.
Other than that, looked awesome.
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I ordered the HD stream. $10 seemed a bit steep for two days (as I only cared about the StarCraft), but I know part of the $10 is also paying for the third day, even if I wouldn't be using it. In it's current state, I don't think I would order it again. However, some things that would entice me to would be:
- More games. I know with this being MLG's first shot at SC2, they wanted to play it safe and not go crazy with three days of games. Hopefully this was successful enough and the next event will have more.
- Commercial diversity. I don't know how much control MLG has over this, as it might rest solely on the sponsors shoulders, but they got old kind of fast. That's even after accepting that there's commercials when paying for the stream.
- In game sound. Obviously I don't want to hear it over the casters, but it's still nice to hear it in the background.
- Get Husky a jacket. That annoyed me far more than it should have.
- More player interviews. The ones you had were great, but there was a lot of time spent staring at the MLG logo that could have been filled players talking. I'd have been curious to hear from one or two of the "no name" people, just to hear what it's like playing against a Qxc or a Nony at an event like this.
- Repeat the stream. It seemed like you did this the first day. I happened to visit the page after the games were over the first day and saw the games from earlier. On the second day, I fell asleep at my keyboard during the semi-finals and slept through the rest. When I woke up I thought "No big deal, I'll catch the restream" but it never happened. This was the biggest thing for me. After paying $10, I think I should have a larger window of time to watch it.
With all that said, here are some things I really liked.
-Rotating commentators. I'm sure casting this many games back to back would have it's toll on any one, and being able to switch teams helped to ensure none of them seemed worn out or too tired.
- The casters themselves. I'm not a huge fan of Husky or HD, but I know a lot of people are. Even a lot of my friends wanted to have them cast over Day & JP. I think that diversity helps, and I never felt myself going "oh god, bring the other guys on."
- The commercials. I said that I wanted diversity, but with that aside, most of the ones played weren't that bad. Old Spice won the commercials wars, while Hot Pockets lost. Dorritos would have won with the kid slapping the guy, but that one with the Dorrito warrior guy dragged them down.
- Stream quality. It was good enough on my 32" monitor. Some of the commercials seemed a bit pixelated, but the games were fine enough.
- iNcontrol. Need more of him.
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Just thought I'd throw out a suggestion for DC after talking to some people who were at the event and watched the stream.
If it's possible to transition to a first person view for some moments (similar to alot of Korean casts) during the games that are casted, that a lot of people would enjoy that. [i.e. seeing kiwi's micro in first person view].
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There NEEDED to be a better setup for the audio commentary. Sitting in the crowd you could not hear the commentators - Yes I understand why it could not be played too loud... but We come to watch and listen. It was horribad that we couldn't hear what was going on on the screen. Also...
How the announcer had the speaker at station 6 and was announcing the next matches and where to go - I saw several players JUMP when he was starting to talk because it startled them (There was a guy playing SelecT and it messed him up for about a minute)
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I would have rather you casted games from better players in the earlier rounds. Gretorp and Silver? Come on...
And the brackets on Gotfrag were just plain embarrassing. You guys should definitely work on that for next time.
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I thought it was very good, it was definitely a step up from some of the other tournament streaming I have seen. I think adding more of a finishing touch and smoothness to the feel would have made it even more enjoyable. Instead of just mentioning where you can find the brackets during the cast, either show them more between matches or directly put them on the stream page.
The map previews were good but seemed to come at weird times. Doing something like the map previews but instead with the players who make it to the semi-finals would have been truly fantastic. A cut scene describing the players background and previous tournaments they have been involved in.
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EPT
