EPTShould stabilize better then
[D] Points system - Page 5
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Should stabilize better then | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12275 Posts
On August 29 2010 23:06 Grummler wrote: I read something similar on broodlings.com, but the reasoning has a weak point. I mean, mathematically it is absolutly possible to reach a situation, where you lose much more points as you get for winning. So with 50% win/loss you would lose way more points overall. But with the bonus point system it could equal out, so your points remain stable. So far i agree. But as you always fight opponents of roughly the same skill AND you lose always as much as your opponent wins (without taking bonus points into account!) its not possible to reach a situations where most peoples points are stable and everyone gets bonus points. Of course i could be wrong with "you lose always as much as your opponent wins (without taking bonus points into account!)". I am actually not sure about this. As a new player without many games you will get way more points for winning than for losing, no matter if you get bonus points or not. Right now i always get the amount of points my opponent loses (after subtracting bonus points) , but that could change with more games, too, as it did after the first 20 games or so. Wow I have no idea how I missed this thread. Anyway the webmaster from broodlings.com PM'd me and asked me if he could mirror the information from our original threads here on TL, and I agreed. We discuss topics like these further in the original threads, if you'd like to browse them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=118212 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142211 And the FAQ thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150367 The gains and losses are different for each player. I could see you as Favored and you could see me as Even, so I could gain 22+22 points for a win and you could lose 10 points. The only time you will gain far fewer points than you will lose is if you're either extremely high or extremely low in the ladder. We believe that the bonus pool is not counted in internal calculations (such as determining points earned for a game) because the total the same for everyone, which means it's a variable that's easily discounted. To get what you could roughly consider "true rating", you would just subtract that person's consumed bonus pool. | ||
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shtdisturbance
Canada613 Posts
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NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
On August 29 2010 19:51 piegasm wrote: The matchmaking system is designed to make your win/loss ratio approach 50% at all times. Only the very best and very worst players will ever stray very far from that number. Exactly that. If you are high above with the top 25 people and they aren't online you will be playing lower skilled players hence you will have a higher win ratio, also laddering against noobs up to the "top25" will get you a high win ration aswell. once there are a lot more people at 2000~ you will see every ">60%" win ratio be closer and closer to 50. | ||
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Tomtaietot
Romania57 Posts
Nobody seens to wonder ... WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE BONUS POOL ?! WHY IT DOESN T GIVE POINTS ANYMORE ?!?!? ALL HAVE OVER 40 points SO FAR (at least in diamond) .... DOES ANYONE KNOWS WHAT IS HAPPENING ?!?!? (sorry for caps - but it becomes annoying) | ||
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Skee
Canada702 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
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squintz
Canada217 Posts
ELO was in WoW arena and noobs cried harder than a zergling getting roasted by pre-igniter. They won't change the point system because it encourages people to play more. | ||
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Jyxz
United States117 Posts
On September 19 2010 01:25 shtdisturbance wrote: I personally just feel we need more leagues. Points don't say much. iccup had soo many different leagues, i feel we need those extra leagues to separate the ok, good, pro players. Right now its kind of all those 3 in diamond. I don't feel like i should be in the same place as B players on BW. While I totally agree with you... its tough because of the ridiculous amount of noobs that play this game... so diamond actually is like 5% of the population or w/e... But yeah I wish it meant something to be in diamond... I feel like plat should be a bigger pool of people... but as it stands its like everything below diamond is D-, D covers up to like 1000 dimoand, D+ to 1200, 1200-1500 C range, then 1500+ = B+ | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12275 Posts
On September 19 2010 03:44 Tomtaietot wrote: I M ASKING THIS FOR THE 4TH TIMEEEE !!! Nobody seens to wonder ... WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE BONUS POOL ?! WHY IT DOESN T GIVE POINTS ANYMORE ?!?!? ALL HAVE OVER 40 points SO FAR (at least in diamond) .... DOES ANYONE KNOWS WHAT IS HAPPENING ?!?!? (sorry for caps - but it becomes annoying) Calm down. It looks like it's a bug that's only happening on the EU server. I haven't seen this happen to any NA players. | ||
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TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On September 20 2010 06:53 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote: i like the bonus points because some people don't get a lot of time to play but still are really good players, and i'm serious about this it is true although not very often... but for those who don't get the time to play a lot the bonus pool system act's sort of like rested xp in wow it allows you to atleast somewhat keep up with the ppl who play 500 games a week Except the people that play 500 games a week are where they would be anyway. The system is designed such that you would normally stay around a certain amount of points. You would win some games, and lose some... you would find your own cap. Then they add in bonus points, which inflates that cap and makes it so people like me (the people that dont get a lot of time to play) actually fall farther behind. | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
On September 19 2010 01:18 Shikyo wrote: Diamond league should give 15 points for a win and reduce 25 points for a loss Should stabilize better then That would be awful because it would discourage ladder play. You'd only want to play when you have bonus pool if you care about your pt rating at all. You could have a guy who only plays with bonus pool at 1200 points and a guy who mass-games and is much better at 900 points. It would render the point system even more useless at determining skill than it is now. Instead of ladder resets and this constant climb/dip system, I would support the elimination of the bonus pool and a gradual scaling up of points lost as one climbs higher through the ladder (a la iccup, but smoother, with auto matchmaking, and no seasons). Ex: 0-1099 is 20 points for a win, 10 for a loss. The 20 points for a win stays constant, but the losses scale up. At 1100, you lose 11 points for a loss. At 1200, 12 points. You get the picture. At 2000 points, gains and losses equalize and only those who the matchmaking system has yet to find 50% equilibrium for will advance. I feel this could be a really stable system, but I think a more intimate knowledge of how MMR works would be necessary to know for sure. It would work better if matchmaking was done solely on point rating, I think. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On August 29 2010 22:13 ejac wrote: Win ratio doesn't tell you shit really, at lower levels of diamond I was 41-13 and as I've started to progressively play better people, it has become smaller as expected. It still tells u a great deal actually. 50% win ratio in high diamond level means that you are average high diamond player, while 65% wr high diamond means you are one of the best high diamond players. Of course the more data (games) the statistics has, the more accurate it is. That's why 16-7 diamond player is not really better than 250-230 diamond player. | ||
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TheOGBlitzKrieg
United States346 Posts
On September 20 2010 06:57 TheRabidDeer wrote: Except the people that play 500 games a week are where they would be anyway. The system is designed such that you would normally stay around a certain amount of points. You would win some games, and lose some... you would find your own cap. Then they add in bonus points, which inflates that cap and makes it so people like me (the people that dont get a lot of time to play) actually fall farther behind. i was actually referring to myself too the bonus pool helps players who don't play as often stay caught up with the competition not fall behind by giving you bonus points for not playing as much... how does this make you fall farther behind than if they didn't give you any bonus points? | ||
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Dominator:]
36 Posts
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
On August 29 2010 19:51 piegasm wrote: The matchmaking system is designed to make your win/loss ratio approach 50% at all times. Only the very best and very worst players will ever stray very far from that number. totaly agree whit that | ||
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Titilisk
96 Posts
This bonus pool allows : 1) a faster ranking of people to their actual level. 2) a slight underrating of hardcore gamers 3) a slight overrating of casual players. Nothing wrong with that according to me. And what's so weird about an "ever growing points" ? Then only thing that makes sense is your ranking compared to the others. As long as the bonus pool is the same for everyone, I'm more than ok with it. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On August 29 2010 19:37 Inori wrote: The problem here is that unless you were playing ONLY when you had bonus pool, you will be at a disadvantage compared to someone who has all these points stacked up if he has at least 50% w/l ratio. You get about 1 point per 2 hours I think. I dont get points when i play most of the time early on when i had no bonus points i played for about 9 hours and i was still at 0 you get bonus points when you dont play Id rather see a ranking system like Iccup atleast that put you where you belonged | ||
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