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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On August 29 2010 19:33 Platypus wrote: Win Ratio tells me if a player is good, for the most part... I used to think that on Iccup until you see some of those 30-10 people that absolute garbage and cheese every game. Win ratio means very very little | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On August 29 2010 20:04 Inori wrote: You keep missing my point that unless the guy that got points EARLIER will play ONLY when he has points, he will have them negated over time due to losses. No, he wont. Why sould he? You dont lose bonus points due to losing. You lose points, true, but you wont get less bonus points. And as long as you dont lose more games then the "i save my bonus points"-guy you wont have less points. And even if you lose more, you will still get the exact same amount of bonus points. Of course you will have less points overall, but thats because of losing more, not because you got less bonus points. | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
On August 29 2010 19:33 Platypus wrote: Win Ratio tells me if a player is good, for the most part... No, it tells you absolutly nothing. A 50% top diamond player is a hell of alot better than a 60% gold player. Win ratio just tells you if the system is working as intended. | ||
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theonlyrio
United Kingdom200 Posts
i believe blizzard are going to reset the ladder every "season" whatever that maybe be hopefully a couple months at a time so it doesn't reach "9999" points. but yh i agree that something has to change | ||
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JudoChopper
England148 Posts
On August 29 2010 20:32 Sanguinarius wrote: No, it tells you absolutly nothing. A 50% top diamond player is a hell of alot better than a 60% gold player. Win ratio just tells you if the system is working as intended. What about an 80% top Diamond player and a 65% top Diamond player, see what I did there? | ||
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Yurie
11817 Posts
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Glacius0
Netherlands66 Posts
The reasoning for the bonus pool system is to give players a sense of progress. If you didn't play for a while and feel that you got worse you will still be satisfied with the feeling of gaining points. In reality this may be a meaningless trick but to me it's kind of the same as people liking good graphics while only gameplay should matter. Are you getting happy because your score is increasing even though it's meaningless anyway? Are you getting angry if you lose even though getting angry is meaningless anyway? We're human. | ||
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Zozo
Brazil2579 Posts
Blizzard's top 200 uses MMR as far as we can tell, the system is good at keeping people playing due to a few tricks, there should just be a real ladder on the website on top of what we have. It's healthy for the community that the new player can see his improvement from rank 85 bronze to rank 2 silver. | ||
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On August 29 2010 20:28 Inori wrote: ... Let's assume we both enter Diamond at the same time. Both at 300 inital rating when we enter. Both have 50% w/l. Both gain 10pt at win and lose 12pt at loss. You will play every day for 10 days after that, 26 games per day, about 10 minutes per game (which means about 4 hours per day), while I wait to stack the points up for 10 days and after that only play untill I have enough points. Your results: Day1 results: 13*10 + 2 = 132pt gain 13*12 = 156pt loss Every other day results: 13*10 + 2 + 10 (idling time) = 142pt gain 13*12 = 156pt loss You will be at 136pt by day10. Now my results: Day10 13*10 + 12*10 = 250pt gain 13*12 = 156pt loss I will be at 394pt by day10. As the time goes on you will lose more and more points while I gain more and more due to stacking up. Wrong. For several reasons: + Show Spoiler + 1. Reason We BOTH lose 12 points for a loss, and get 10 points for a win. Ok so far. With 50% win/loss we will lose 1 point average after each game. Still, fine (well, maybe we should pratice more..)). If i play 26 games/ day for 10 days, i played a total of 260 games, while you only played 26. Still, no problem. BUT: Even if there were no bonus points AT ALL, i would obviously have LESS points then you, because we lose more points then we win the more we play and i played MORE than you. I played 250 games more than you, that makes me lose 250 points more. This would be even true if there were no bonus point system. 2. Reason Well, you forgot to give me 10 bonus points on day 1. I mean, 1 point/ 2 hour. That makes us get 12 points/day. You only gave me 2. Also your math in calculating my total points is wrong. Using your number i get 150 points. With those forgotten 10 bonus points it sums up to 160. With 12 points/day, we get 120 bonus points after 10 days. We started with 300 points. Correct math for 10 days: Me: 300 (starting) + 120 (bonus) -260 (losing 130 games, wining 130 games)=160 points You: 300 (starting) + 120 (bonus) -26 (losing 13 games, wining 13 games)=394points I mean, we get 12 bonus points/day. Period. No way to trick the system to give you more. The only reason why i have less points then you after those 10 days is because coincidentally you made the numbers that way, that playing more is bad. With 12 points for winning, and -10 points for losing, it would be: Me: 300 (starting) + 120 (bonus) +260 (losing 130 games, wining 130 games)=680 points You: 300 (starting) + 120 (bonus) +26 (losing 13 games, wining 13 games)=446points Oh my god, i have more points than you! So spending all bonus points as fast as possible makes me get more bonus points! No..wait.. Just to make it even more clear: We both got the exact same amount of bonus point. How could it be different? 12 points/day, nothing else. In your calculation we both suck at sc2. With me playing more, i lose more points due to suckage. Thats all. In my calculation we both are not that bad. Playing games makes us get more points. I played more, so have more points. But still, we both got the exact same amount of bonus points. | ||
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REM.ca
Canada354 Posts
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Merano
Austria105 Posts
I can live with the rating point inflation for the top players. Global ranking sites are not official part of the game. The ranking Blizzard publishes do not show any points - so there is no inflation. I am also quite happy with matchmaking. For me it seems to use the hidden points instead of the points messed up by the bonus pool. But I see some problem for casual players (non-diamond). Currently, you start laddering with ~500 bonus points. If you have a 50% win ratio and gain ~12 points per win, you will need 42 wins or 84 games to consume you bonus pool. Each day you will need 2 more games to empty you pool. If you further play 2v2s and 3v3s, there are far more matches needed each day to consume your bonus pool. Not all players care about the rating. But for them who care, but do not have time to play a lot, it might be frustrating. They are ranked far behind other players they can easily beat, but simply do not have the time yet to play so many games to get a fair ranking. So after the next ladder reset, I would wish that only half or a quarter of the bonus points are distributed each day. | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
On August 29 2010 20:35 JudoChopper wrote: What about an 80% top Diamond player and a 65% top Diamond player, see what I did there? So you know that there are only 2 80% diamond players? Good work! And there are only about 50 people >65% - all of which are damn good Everyone else is lower than65% - so no, it tells you absolutely nothing see? | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
Blizzard should really opt for an ELO-like system. I wonder why they did this method ? - Maybe in order to produce the effect "omg i'm getting stronger and stronger everyday !" - Maybe they want to make people play more regulary - Maybe both - Maybe they have an evil hidden plan ? EDIT : They claim SC2 is a competitve E-SPORT. So give us ELO-like otherwise you're not credible at all, Blizz | ||
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
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Yoshi
Netherlands9 Posts
http://www.broodlings.com/battlenet-matchmaking-system.php | ||
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Hsanrb
United States46 Posts
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
Win ratio doesn't tell you shit really, at lower levels of diamond I was 41-13 and as I've started to progressively play better people, it has become smaller as expected. | ||
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