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[D] Points system - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
August 30 2010 08:23 GMT
#61
its going to be reset every season anyway isnt it?
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
annul
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2841 Posts
August 30 2010 09:04 GMT
#62
On August 29 2010 19:13 Inori wrote:
For example in chess 1500 is mid, 1800 - good and 2200+ is pro level. This was true 30 years ago. This will be true 30 years from now.


google "FIDE inflation"
Gruntt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
August 30 2010 09:14 GMT
#63
Technically this is one of the best things for the game.

If the inflation rate never ends, then those that played well early on will benefit.

If you stop playing for a while, obviously you will fall behind skill-wise, but you receive benefit for doing so well when you had, and your pool gathers up accordingly.

Although I'm one of the biggest bonus pool abusers in this game... so I guess that always helps
KillerPlague
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1386 Posts
August 30 2010 09:21 GMT
#64
i clicked no, but after reading the OP (put your argument first next time lol) as well as a few other posts i am concerned a bit as well. there should be a ceiling of points and hopefully we just haven't found it yet?
Side 1: Why no dominant players with 90% win ratio Side 2: Nerf Side 1
Fishermang
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway56 Posts
September 18 2010 10:51 GMT
#65
I have no idea how any of this works, but I for one am happy to move up the ladder in top 10, even if it is back and forth, instead of having to look at the meaningless drift: "I am 30121th.." and after a few days: "Yay, I am 29987th...!"

I am one of those casual players
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-18 11:12:06
September 18 2010 11:11 GMT
#66
I hate the system, I dont get to play very much so I am constantly behind everybody because of the bonus points. I have about 650 points in diamond but my hidden rating has me consistently getting matched against people that are at 1100-1200 now.

A couple weeks ago it was me against 800 point players, now its against 1200 point players.

(I am 38-24 at this point)
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-18 11:18:53
September 18 2010 11:16 GMT
#67
On August 29 2010 22:40 Klockan3 wrote:

Show nested quote +
On August 29 2010 19:13 Inori wrote:
Why this bothers me is because this system has no stable grounds - a way to know what level a player is based on his rating in any given time. For example in chess 1500 is mid, 1800 - good and 2200+ is pro level. This was true 30 years ago. This will be true 30 years from now. In SC2, however, 2-3 months from now everyone will have 5k+ points. And in another 2-3 months, what? 9999 points? And after that? Sure, resets may come, but they don't really solve the core of the problem.

You don't know how the rating works, not at all. None does but the designers working for Blizzard. It could be that the bonus pool artificially inflates the ratings but we don't know that and we wont know that until either Blizzard makes an official statement or in at least a few months. And look at these arguments:
1. It takes a long while for the system to stabilize when everyone starts out at x rating. chess haven't had a situation like this in ages.
2. If suddenly the whole world started to play competitive chess then everyones chess ranking would get a huge increase simply because the system puts all new players at the same ranking and most of the world are way worse than the worst parts of the competitive chess community.
3. The top players scores increases faster than the bonus pool adds points.


You are completely missing the point. Bonus pool creates a large inflation. This is a FACT. No matter how match making works the points you see in your profile is increasing. This creates massive problems for the player. Now if I want to know if I have improved there is no baseline for me to compare myself to since 1000 points. today could be the same as 500 points last week. This inflation is stupid and serves only to boost the egos of those that don't understand.

Bonus pool inflates POINTS - Rating is something we don't see and will most likely not see for a long time so it's meaningless as a visual indicator of improvement.

EDIT:
On September 18 2010 20:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:
I hate the system, I dont get to play very much so I am constantly behind everybody because of the bonus points. I have about 650 points in diamond but my hidden rating has me consistently getting matched against people that are at 1100-1200 now.

A couple weeks ago it was me against 800 point players, now its against 1200 point players.

(I am 38-24 at this point)


I get the same thing. I'm around 800 points and always get matched up against 1200-1500 points players. The actual matchmaking is fine, I really enjoy it but what I don't understand is why the system has to hide the fact that I am a 1200-1500 player because of this stupid inflation. I want to be able to look at my points and get a rough idea of if I have improved from last week or not.

MonkeyKungFu
Profile Joined June 2010
Norway154 Posts
September 18 2010 11:20 GMT
#68
The intention of the bonus pool is ok i guess, but the frequency of bonus pool points granted might be too great. At least the bonus pool is not working atm, got zero bonus for winning even if my pool is at 200 and when I loose to an even opponent i get -20 pts wtf?. A complete removal would be good though.
..
HCastorp
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States388 Posts
September 18 2010 11:27 GMT
#69
Forget worrying about how many points you have. Worry about what percentile you are in. If it were easy to see global percentile, I would be pretty happy with the current system. Heck, I could even give myself an ICCup style letter grade by matching my percentile against this chart.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
September 18 2010 12:04 GMT
#70
On September 18 2010 20:27 HCastorp wrote:
Forget worrying about how many points you have. Worry about what percentile you are in. If it were easy to see global percentile, I would be pretty happy with the current system. Heck, I could even give myself an ICCup style letter grade by matching my percentile against this chart.

Small problems, your current percentile is based on your points, which is based on bonus points, which means if you havent used your bonus points like myself then you cant see your real percentile.

If I base my percentile on what my opponents seem to be, then that would put me in roughly the top .5%, or in the B+ range (based on total population)... I never even played in iCCup :S

I guess it might be more accurate if you ignore platinum and below... as that would be closer to top 5%, or the C/C+ range.
Hertz
Profile Joined September 2010
United States26 Posts
September 18 2010 12:14 GMT
#71
I think the point system is adequate
Thats not what yo momma said last night
HCastorp
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States388 Posts
September 18 2010 12:18 GMT
#72
@RabidDeer - I should have clarified, I meant your percentile withing Dimaond League, not within the player pool as a whole. Your point about bonus points is true, sort of, but your Iccup ranking would also have been less than it should have been if you played relatively few games.
Tomtaietot
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania57 Posts
September 18 2010 14:55 GMT
#73
Can anyone tell me what happenes to bonus pool these days ?!?!?!

Seens it doesn t work anymore ....
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/323212/1/Tom/
Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
September 18 2010 15:34 GMT
#74
Points are not an indication of skill like you want them to be. MMR is the only indication of skill, which is hidden.
Jaug
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden249 Posts
September 18 2010 15:53 GMT
#75
No, since there are games where you can get +1 for win and -20 for loss. This is just ridiculous.
Kelethius
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada187 Posts
September 18 2010 15:57 GMT
#76
Its pretty good as a general guide line, but yeah you have to adjust it for the bonus pool every once in a while. But for example, if your around 1200 diamond now, you know your pretty average player, whereas in wc3 you played against someone who is like 300-250 or something your not as sure where they stand. Sure maybe two weeks it will be 1500 is average and 2k+ is good player, but at least you have a general idea of how good you are vs just win/loss ratios
Najda
Profile Joined June 2010
United States3765 Posts
September 18 2010 16:00 GMT
#77
On August 29 2010 20:35 JudoChopper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2010 20:32 Sanguinarius wrote:
No, it tells you absolutly nothing.

A 50% top diamond player is a hell of alot better than a 60% gold player.

Win ratio just tells you if the system is working as intended.

What about an 80% top Diamond player and a 65% top Diamond player, see what I did there?


Not everyone takes the ladder super competitively. People try out new builds, work out kinks in their builds, and have losses left over from when they were a noob. Also because of the bonus pool, someone can get to 1000+ diamond faster than me since I was playing with release at my "true skill" the entire time, while he just blew through a bunch of bad kids to get to where he belongs, getting a 80% record along the way.
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-18 16:10:25
September 18 2010 16:07 GMT
#78
Concerning inflation, seems like the growth at the top has slowed quite a lot. It took a while for someone to break 2000 after people were above 1900 for a while.

On September 18 2010 20:16 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2010 22:40 Klockan3 wrote:

On August 29 2010 19:13 Inori wrote:
Why this bothers me is because this system has no stable grounds - a way to know what level a player is based on his rating in any given time. For example in chess 1500 is mid, 1800 - good and 2200+ is pro level. This was true 30 years ago. This will be true 30 years from now. In SC2, however, 2-3 months from now everyone will have 5k+ points. And in another 2-3 months, what? 9999 points? And after that? Sure, resets may come, but they don't really solve the core of the problem.

You don't know how the rating works, not at all. None does but the designers working for Blizzard. It could be that the bonus pool artificially inflates the ratings but we don't know that and we wont know that until either Blizzard makes an official statement or in at least a few months. And look at these arguments:
1. It takes a long while for the system to stabilize when everyone starts out at x rating. chess haven't had a situation like this in ages.
2. If suddenly the whole world started to play competitive chess then everyones chess ranking would get a huge increase simply because the system puts all new players at the same ranking and most of the world are way worse than the worst parts of the competitive chess community.
3. The top players scores increases faster than the bonus pool adds points.


You are completely missing the point. Bonus pool creates a large inflation. This is a FACT. No matter how match making works the points you see in your profile is increasing. This creates massive problems for the player. Now if I want to know if I have improved there is no baseline for me to compare myself to since 1000 points. today could be the same as 500 points last week. This inflation is stupid and serves only to boost the egos of those that don't understand.

Bonus pool inflates POINTS - Rating is something we don't see and will most likely not see for a long time so it's meaningless as a visual indicator of improvement.

EDIT:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2010 20:11 TheRabidDeer wrote:
I hate the system, I dont get to play very much so I am constantly behind everybody because of the bonus points. I have about 650 points in diamond but my hidden rating has me consistently getting matched against people that are at 1100-1200 now.

A couple weeks ago it was me against 800 point players, now its against 1200 point players.

(I am 38-24 at this point)


I get the same thing. I'm around 800 points and always get matched up against 1200-1500 points players. The actual matchmaking is fine, I really enjoy it but what I don't understand is why the system has to hide the fact that I am a 1200-1500 player because of this stupid inflation. I want to be able to look at my points and get a rough idea of if I have improved from last week or not.



The rationale for this is to keep active players closer to the top of the ladder instead of being able to hold a high spot without playing.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
Tomtaietot
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania57 Posts
September 18 2010 16:14 GMT
#79
I am asking - what happenes to bonus bool now ?! It s stuck for 3 days ....... even everyone plays ... (in diamond at least)..

And everyone started acumulating bonus pool - it reached 39 ... now ....
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/323212/1/Tom/
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
September 18 2010 16:17 GMT
#80
I think the system is not terrible, but the rate of inflation is too high. Unlike some guys who have already played 700 games, by only playing a few games a day I STILL haven't cleared my bonus pool even after almost two months of playing. The rate at which bonus points are accrued is too high, which is why ratings inflate so fast.

What bothers me the most is that it completely distorts your perception of whether you are improving or not. A week ago I was struggling to beat guys with 800 points, and now I am going about 50% with guys who have 1000 or more. Does this mean I am doing better? I have no idea, because everyone's score is constantly increasing so fast. Saying that you beat a player with X points, or even posting in the forums that you are an X point player is pointless because a few days later the point of reference becomes obsolete.

The only real measurable standard at the moment is sc2ranks, because once you have cleared your bonus pool you can then see how you stack up against everyone in your region (ie: if you move from the top 600 to top 500 then you know you are improving).
Don't hate the player, hate the game
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