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On August 29 2010 15:26 Zegu wrote:
well not sure about the rest of it, but the last 3 matches were all PvP, so the bio ball cant be that op
I didn't see enough to say but you can't really draw that conclusion. I think a lot of Terrans eliminated each other and the games where I did see a Terran lose it was due to an error or losing to early cheese. Maybe someone that watched a lot of the earlier part of the tournament can provide more detail. I thought the last game between Socke and Drewbie typified late game PvT. It's almost impossible to crack the Terran defense and all the mules just put them further and further ahead. Imo you shouldn't be able to get hit by so many storms and still win so easily. What I personally found concerning was Drewbie wasn't even trying to dodge the storms with his Vikings. It was still a very entertaining game though and great tournament.
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Its easy why we see such things. It's called FOTM. Don't expect these kids to pass up on the op strategy of the month, expecially when there are money involved.
Marrauders = Dragoons with Stim which can be healed. I think this sums it up pretty well.
On the other hand, Meck requires positioning and a much higher skill into execution overall, so no doubt that's why it makes less of an appearance.
Personally I believe the marrauder was a big mistake from Blizzard's part. Terran was always the race with potent units that were hard to use but gave great results in the hands of a skilled player. Now it seems to me they have abandoned this concept all together.
It's sad really, because all this will do is limit the lifetime of the game.
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I long for the beta days of seeing zergs competing in the top 4, the most recent tournaments have been filled in the semifinals/finals with either
A.TvT
B. PvP
C. Most games end up being short because of the cheese popularity emerging.
I think HuK really showed how to squash cheese, and really provided a look into probably an emerging popularity of use of fenixes to counter the 4gate and at least make PvP somewhat fun to watch.
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you know that after the september patch, there will be bio almost in every game right? since tanks are prolly gonna suck
have fun
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On August 29 2010 17:07 forgottendreams wrote:
I long for the beta days of seeing zergs competing in the top 4, the most recent tournaments have been filled in the semifinals/finals with either
A.TvT
B. PvP
C. Most games end up being short because of the cheese popularity emerging.
I think HuK really showed how to squash cheese, and really provided a look into probably an emerging popularity of use of fenixes to counter the 4gate and at least make PvP somewhat fun to watch.
Did you even watch the IEM series at GamesCom? No Protoss in the Ro8 and it was almost all TvZs through the finals.
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On August 29 2010 17:21 Rokk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 17:07 forgottendreams wrote:
I long for the beta days of seeing zergs competing in the top 4, the most recent tournaments have been filled in the semifinals/finals with either
A.TvT
B. PvP
C. Most games end up being short because of the cheese popularity emerging.
I think HuK really showed how to squash cheese, and really provided a look into probably an emerging popularity of use of fenixes to counter the 4gate and at least make PvP somewhat fun to watch. Did you even watch the IEM series at GamesCom? No Protoss in the Ro8 and it was almost all TvZs through the finals.
Yeah, this. I love the QQ though.
We haven't seen enough Protoss!
>Look at the MLG top 3
We haven't seen enough Zerg!
>Look at the IEM top 4
If you count the top 4 of these last 2 tournaments you get:
3 Terran
3 Protoss
2 Zerg
That's literally as balanced as it can possibly be.
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Personally I think the coverage [I do not mean the casters with this, just the style of it] adds to the "this is boring" sign, because due to the huge breaks inbetween games the tension is somewhat lost. We also have online tournaments with big periods of waiting, but the casters there usually continue "blabbering" to provide entertainment and that is what is missing. Ad breaks do not help keeping "the immersion" either.
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I cannot belaive even protoss players are now starting to whine.
Stalker, Zealot is tier1 too and we see them all game long, do you want us to go Thor to get it slaugthered by stalkers in a second? or Tank (to get stomped by immortals or chargelots or blinkstalkers or phoneix do you know what I mean ?) or do you want us to play air mech, and have billion stalkers instantly under us get stomped again or mothership vortex+storm+feedback?
I had all these, and I hate to admit Terrans are not playing mmm because its easy, we play it because its the most suitable way to counter Protoss. In Sc2 Protoss has a little bit different kind of Zerg production system with Warpgates.
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I dunno about if I think the games itself was boring but I sure as hell hated the tourney format with double elimination.
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Maybe it's just me but it felt like the kiwi vs huk finals were just another match. Didn't seem like a finals game at all. I dunno whats to account for that. The atmosphere of the tournament? Not enough hype?
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On August 29 2010 17:29 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 17:21 Rokk wrote:On August 29 2010 17:07 forgottendreams wrote:
I long for the beta days of seeing zergs competing in the top 4, the most recent tournaments have been filled in the semifinals/finals with either
A.TvT
B. PvP
C. Most games end up being short because of the cheese popularity emerging.
I think HuK really showed how to squash cheese, and really provided a look into probably an emerging popularity of use of fenixes to counter the 4gate and at least make PvP somewhat fun to watch. Did you even watch the IEM series at GamesCom? No Protoss in the Ro8 and it was almost all TvZs through the finals. Yeah, this. I love the QQ though. We haven't seen enough Protoss! >Look at the MLG top 3 We haven't seen enough Zerg! >Look at the IEM top 4 If you count the top 4 of these last 2 tournaments you get: 3 Terran 3 Protoss 2 Zerg That's literally as balanced as it can possibly be.
lol
how are people taking the results from two tournaments to analyze balance?
if you put dimaga and idra in a high stakes tournament and they dont place top 8 or even top 4 then something is definitely wrong IMO
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On August 29 2010 14:36 Vokasak wrote:
I don't get the point of this thread. You might as well be saying tanks and vultures are boring in BW so TvP is a bad matchup. What?
Ridiculous analogy.
Tanks and Vultures gave Terran a completely different style of attacking from the other races, where they would allow the player to slowly establish and defend territory and encroach towards the enemy base. And it made for interesting gameplay on both sides - The Terrans needed to know when and where to siege, how to provide vision for the Tanks, create minefields, use the Vultures to "tank" for the Tanks as well as harass the enemy workers - and the opponent could utilize mine drags, Zealot bombs, send units to absorb initial volley of tanks/mines and then charge in and so forth.
Whereas MMM is incredibly boring to play and watch, and there's nothing special beyond some basic kiting.
Once again, the problem is not that MMM is OP compared to the other races, it's that it's a boring build that also happens to be the most popular Terran build right now, and the situation will only get worse after the Siege Tank nerfs.
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I think it's a fair statement, as there have been better tournaments, but it wasnt bad by any means. They did a good job overall, and some things are out of their control (like how games play out, balance etc). Some things they could control that I felt hurt it:
I preferred single elim/BO5s personally. Made it unnecessary long imo. I do get the charm of fighting your way out of the LB, so not a big complaint.I think it was painful early on because of the fillers, but later LR's were pretty interesting. Maybe in future (seeded) tourneys this wont be an issue.
Also, the choice of what to show could have been better. IEM also did a better job updating you on the untelevised matches, and made more effort to show you the last game of a bo3/5 in progress.
I also got the feeling the overall players were stronger at IEM. This might be a little skewed perception since they had a lot more matches, with a lot being filler random ladder guys. But when it was good, it was real good.
Props though on the commentators. SC is such an amazingly esport friendly game, with a strong community. You have people like day9, HDH etc that are popular and are experienced. If you compare the other MLG games where they had community "stars" commenting, they looked like fish out of water and clearly never done it. MLG deserves credit for being savvy enough to capitalize on this as it greatly helped the event.
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On August 29 2010 17:29 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 17:21 Rokk wrote:On August 29 2010 17:07 forgottendreams wrote:
I long for the beta days of seeing zergs competing in the top 4, the most recent tournaments have been filled in the semifinals/finals with either
A.TvT
B. PvP
C. Most games end up being short because of the cheese popularity emerging.
I think HuK really showed how to squash cheese, and really provided a look into probably an emerging popularity of use of fenixes to counter the 4gate and at least make PvP somewhat fun to watch. Did you even watch the IEM series at GamesCom? No Protoss in the Ro8 and it was almost all TvZs through the finals. Yeah, this. I love the QQ though. We haven't seen enough Protoss! >Look at the MLG top 3 We haven't seen enough Zerg! >Look at the IEM top 4 If you count the top 4 of these last 2 tournaments you get: 3 Terran 3 Protoss 2 Zerg That's literally as balanced as it can possibly be.
Don't make a fool out of yourself by using these stats. The toss played really bad at IEM, especially white ra was just painfull to watch. That being said, I think dimaga and idra are better players than morrow, who just abused like hell (can't blame him, $$$) Give it up already, T players even admit it, it is not balanced and it won't be in 1.1
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Morrow played brilliantly(game on blistering sands, almost flawless). Seriously, Idra made alot of mistakes. I think actually, that day. Morrow was the better player.
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i thought this thread isn't about how many P/T/Z are in the end rounds of a tournament
it's about mlg being SOOO BORING
because absolutely every single terran played MMM and so on...
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On August 29 2010 20:20 ZaaaaaM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 17:29 dcemuser wrote:On August 29 2010 17:21 Rokk wrote:On August 29 2010 17:07 forgottendreams wrote:
I long for the beta days of seeing zergs competing in the top 4, the most recent tournaments have been filled in the semifinals/finals with either
A.TvT
B. PvP
C. Most games end up being short because of the cheese popularity emerging.
I think HuK really showed how to squash cheese, and really provided a look into probably an emerging popularity of use of fenixes to counter the 4gate and at least make PvP somewhat fun to watch. Did you even watch the IEM series at GamesCom? No Protoss in the Ro8 and it was almost all TvZs through the finals. Yeah, this. I love the QQ though. We haven't seen enough Protoss! >Look at the MLG top 3 We haven't seen enough Zerg! >Look at the IEM top 4 If you count the top 4 of these last 2 tournaments you get: 3 Terran 3 Protoss 2 Zerg That's literally as balanced as it can possibly be. Don't make a fool out of yourself by using these stats. The toss played really bad at IEM, especially white ra was just painfull to watch. That being said, I think dimaga and idra are better players than morrow, who just abused like hell (can't blame him, $$$) Give it up already, T players even admit it, it is not balanced and it won't be in 1.1
He was just shooting down the other guys point by the fact that he used dumb statistics but the statistics he was using didn't even back up his point.
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I think the best way to balance bio would be to make marauders lose alot more hp when they stim, so you cant kite with a few for sooo long.
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On August 29 2010 05:12 Inori wrote:
PvP is boring as hell, 4gate -> if survived colo spam -> win
HuK vs Kiwikaki on Delta Quadrant
+ Show Spoiler +Awesome Phoenix play won HuK the game.
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ANOTHER QQ thread? c'mon guys (-,-')......
this is really starting to get old fast!
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EPT
