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On August 30 2010 09:40 FortuneSyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 09:02 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
I think the zealot nerf was needed for PvP, zealot rushes are a little too strong and do break a lot of games in this match up. I like to see Ultralisk weekened because I thought they were too strong in ZvP too. ehh zealot rushes? this affects absolutely nothing in pvp, it only makes korean 4wg allin harder to defend.
Yeah, this change was pretty fail, given Blizzard's reasoning for it.
It doesn't fix anything in PvP, because the unit you need to defend proxy gates or Korean 4gate is the same one that's having its build time nerfed. It may help PvZ by delaying the standard 2gate time by 10-15 seconds, but then it also screws with defending against early zerglings. I don't know what all the timings are for the various ling rushes, but there've been more than a few times when that zealot has come out just in time to stop a bunch of lings from running straight in to my probe line. And yeah, any PvT match that involves no tanks and some zealots is going to be tipped a little in favor of T. That's not good, considering that the trend right now seems to be Marine/Marauder/Ghost pushes that you can really only hold off with zealots.
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I'm fine with the reaper change overall, though I still would like to see them get some kind of upgrade to make them more viable late game.
The tank change was probably warranted, and with that change mech style on zvt should be a lot more even.
I don't understand the change for ultras (lower damage), bcs, or zealots.
Protoss are not dominating zerg right now, the matchup seems fairly balanced.
Protoss are not dominating terran right now, this balance seems to shift back and forth a bit but I also feel terrans are starting to use hellions more to combat the large zealot use.
I feel the zealot change is too much of a blunt nerf. If rushes are the problem, increasing the building time for gateway/warpgate. That gives a small, discreet change to surgically fix a specific problem.
Nerfing the build time on a key unit that is built all game creates the potential for too many other problems.
As for the ultras, terrans have the perfect counter (250 mm), and toss have void rays and immortals. If I were to pick a "broken" z unit, it certainly wouldn't be the ultra.
Also, the bc is fine as is. The only reason for its strength is terran can hold the midgame so easily with its other units. Now that that has been weakened, bcs should be fine.
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On August 30 2010 10:05 Karas wrote:
Protoss are not dominating zerg right now, the matchup seems fairly balanced.
I dunno about that...
ZvT QQ is basically allowing ZvP unbalance to go untalked about and unnoticed...
2 base colossus-stalker or 2 robo colossus is freaking strong and the only counter is Ultra-ling combo...and so many Zerg just get caught out by not seeing the robo bays...
Also warp-gate all-ins can be very very difficult to hold off...
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If I (Terran) have to be nerfed to gain your "gg" then so it shall be done.
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On August 30 2010 09:58 Dionyseus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 09:40 FortuneSyn wrote:On August 30 2010 09:02 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
I think the zealot nerf was needed for PvP, zealot rushes are a little too strong and do break a lot of games in this match up. I like to see Ultralisk weekened because I thought they were too strong in ZvP too. ehh zealot rushes? this affects absolutely nothing in pvp, it only makes korean 4wg allin harder to defend. Don't forget that the warpgate cooldown will be increased by 5 seconds. I don't see how that would make it harder to defend 4 gate all-in, if anything it'd be easier.
You either defend 4wg by having the same/close timing of warp-in as his warp-in, or you defend it by having 3/4 zealots when he warps in.
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On August 30 2010 10:24 Affluenza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 10:05 Karas wrote:
Protoss are not dominating zerg right now, the matchup seems fairly balanced. I dunno about that... ZvT QQ is basically allowing ZvP unbalance to go untalked about and unnoticed... 2 base colossus-stalker or 2 robo colossus is freaking strong and the only counter is Ultra-ling combo...and so many Zerg just get caught out by not seeing the robo bays... Also warp-gate all-ins can be very very difficult to hold off...
Collossi are easily, easily thwarted by Corruptors. A handful of the things bring down Collossi before Stalkers have a hope in hell of protecting them. There's no way a Zerg can't have Corruptors on the field by the time a Protoss is pumping Collossi out.
Most Zerg I play just assume Collossi and get a Spire for some Corruptors to go along with the Hydra ball, instead of putting all of their eggs in one basket and assume that their Hydras are uncounterable.
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The BC nerf is more of a bandaid fix. It's for TvP because Toss has a hard time against armored air. Phoenixes/Stalkers/HTs/Voids don't cut it. The Viking on the other hand is the god of AtA dominance for its measley 75 gas. And Zerg has Corruptors and Hydra with their sick DPS.
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5 Posts
siege tank and bc nerfs... where the hell are they coming from with this? bc's are garbage and get torn up by just about every ranged unit, and theyre mad expensive. people werent complaining about tank dmg vs light units...the issue was and is the smart fire.
tanks are made so rarely...just lol. they worked as a good counter to hydras and marines. they already get decimated by marauders. so why build tanks at all now?
oh and does anyone else feel that the hellion harass is much too powerful in ZvT? and it wasnt really dealt with. when i play against Z at the top of my diamond division, an 8 hellion rush pretty much guarantees that i will cripple my opponent until thors and rauders are out.
the bunker/reaper nerf is good.. but...i dont think theyre dealing with much of the ZvT issues.
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Zealot nerf and warp-in nerf also promotes using stalkers to defend zealot rush in PvP. I mean, if it's almost the same time to warp-in, then why not get the stalker if you have the gas for it? Obviously you should get zealots for tanks and stalkers for DPS, but my point is that if you choose to warp in a stalker, you aren't penalized as much.
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Siege Tank nerf sounds good, I do not like the rest especially the Protoss nerf. Zealots are already twice as expensive as Marines and two Zerglings and take up 2 supply. Now they're going to also take waaay longer to build and get out if you have warpgate tech?
I hope Sentry build time is decreased then, and that Zealots will now only be 50 minerals.
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On August 30 2010 13:34 overt wrote:
Siege Tank nerf sounds good, I do not like the rest especially the Protoss nerf. Zealots are already twice as expensive as Marines and two Zerglings and take up 2 supply. Now they're going to also take waaay longer to build and get out if you have warpgate tech?
I hope Sentry build time is decreased then, and that Zealots will now only be 50 minerals.
Come on, are you kidding me?
By the way, the zealot nerf was already tested in beta. Guess what guys? 6-9 pools didn't break the game. The game worked fine, actually.
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On August 30 2010 13:45 Tump wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2010 13:34 overt wrote:
Siege Tank nerf sounds good, I do not like the rest especially the Protoss nerf. Zealots are already twice as expensive as Marines and two Zerglings and take up 2 supply. Now they're going to also take waaay longer to build and get out if you have warpgate tech?
I hope Sentry build time is decreased then, and that Zealots will now only be 50 minerals. Come on, are you kidding me? By the way, the zealot nerf was already tested in beta. Guess what guys? 6-9 pools didn't break the game. The game worked fine, actually.
this thank you
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I just pray they do something to Marauders. It's messed up that a single unit takes a combination of 2-3 more units and twice the APM to just go head-on-head. I'm tired of completely outmicroing and outmacroing marauders just to come out even. Terrible 50 APM players can build a few marauders and some marines, press T, and do just fine against 150 APM with force fields, storm, colossus, etc.
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i dont like no oneshotting banelings with siege 
Mech vs protoss is pretty much dead, since bio was already favored anyway.
Banelings are going to shit all over terran i thinks, we'll see
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when is this patch going live?
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@Snowfield..
What about reading patchnotes...or knowing the game.
Baneling has 30 HP
New Tankshot deals 35 dmg.
Do the math, you will experience surprising results...
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Propose rename of thread to include the "patch 1.1" text - I just wasted a post because I couldn't find this in a search.
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On August 30 2010 13:06 Iggyhopper wrote:
Zealot nerf and warp-in nerf also promotes using stalkers to defend zealot rush in PvP. I mean, if it's almost the same time to warp-in, then why not get the stalker if you have the gas for it? Obviously you should get zealots for tanks and stalkers for DPS, but my point is that if you choose to warp in a stalker, you aren't penalized as much.
Stalker take 15 shots to kill a zealot. So by the time you kill the zealots, you'll have absolutly no probes if the attacker is not enought retarted to focus your stalkers.
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I hope warp in nerf is only for zealots NOT for all gateway units right ?
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On August 30 2010 15:06 Sentient wrote:
I just pray they do something to Marauders. It's messed up that a single unit takes a combination of 2-3 more units and twice the APM to just go head-on-head. I'm tired of completely outmicroing and outmacroing marauders just to come out even. Terrible 50 APM players can build a few marauders and some marines, press T, and do just fine against 150 APM with force fields, storm, colossus, etc.
This is pretty much how i feel as well. Especially those 2 marauder+2scv attacks to buy time while he expands will become even more retarded.
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EPT
