EPTBring back vultures/spider mines this will get ridiculous. Not every game should be about mnm ball+ siege tank support. Mech should be viable and so should air.
Situation report 1 posted! - Page 87
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Mente
United States288 Posts
Bring back vultures/spider mines this will get ridiculous. Not every game should be about mnm ball+ siege tank support. Mech should be viable and so should air. | ||
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Karkadinn
United States132 Posts
On August 30 2010 08:19 Opinion wrote: Have to agree it is rather conservative. The average player recommendation ranges from completely removing a unit from the game, nerfing damage by 50% or more, creation of new buildings and units to counter existing units and entire redesign of macro and micro components. The actual patches are 5 seconds here and there and some redistribution of damage modifiers. But the community still overreacts and becomes inconsolable. Nature of the internet. Forum posters are mostly made up of people who are unhappy, because unhappy people have a reason to complain at length, while the happy people, the 'meh' people, and the 'only a little discontent' people just shrug and play the game instead of posting about their lack of unhappiness. So when you go to a balance thread, you hear from the players who are unhappy with current balance. And when you go to a patch thread, you hear from the people who are unhappy with the patch. And never the twain shall meet. | ||
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
This however does not address many players concerns that zerg is just flat out broken... but thats a discussion that goes way beyond balance... | ||
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
On August 30 2010 08:27 Mente wrote: My only concern with the patch is how tanks will stand up against zealots. I'll start having nightmares of tvp again when zealots just bomb into the tank line and i watch as my heavy armored tanks do non effected damage to themselves and do reduced damage to zealots. Bring back vultures/spider mines this will get ridiculous. Not every game should be about mnm ball+ siege tank support. Mech should be viable and so should air. I think the change to the tank is fine. Critical mass of tanks owns ground too badly. It's not really balanced in mid late game. It doesn't really affect that many units anyways. Hydras (tanks will still own hydras though w/ splash), zerglings (just can't skimp on your hellions), and zealots. Those are the only 3 significant units that I see affected with the tank change. It just means you cant have pure tanks unsupported. You need to have a bioball with it, or hellions. Which, imo, is completely fine. I don't think pure tanks should be able to have no weakness. The tank splash still will kill zealots when combined with hellion or bio. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
forces terran now to actually get a richer unit composition, which is a good thing  | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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conTAgi0n
United States335 Posts
On August 30 2010 07:34 Ianuus wrote: I played some 3v3s with noob (haven't played RTS before) friends, so I decide to use a new race (I usually play toss) and go a stupid build - rush battlecruisers. I would go gas before rax, then doubleport with 4 banshees for some harass then straight into BATTLECRUISER OPERATIONAL. Much to my surprise, it worked many times and we got placed in gold league. While I agree that cattlebruisers atm rip stuff up once you get 5 or 6 of them (not very hard when you're turtling), I still don't support this nerf - because that's not how you're supposed to kill them. You're supposed to outmanouvre them, a much more interesting and strategic counter. There was one game in BW, I think it was Flash vs (Hwasin?) where Flash when BCs and the other dude just ran around his BCs and killed all the expansions with his Gols, even though the BCs had torn up his main. That game was awesome. You mean Flash vs UpMagic? Maybe you're thinking of a different one since UpMagic lost a huge battlecruiser fight first. It was an awesome game though. | ||
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:02 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I think the zealot nerf was needed for PvP, zealot rushes are a little too strong and do break a lot of games in this match up. I like to see Ultralisk weekened because I thought they were too strong in ZvP too. I am probably missing something huge here, but dont void rays rape ultras? | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:00 Subversion wrote: agree with above. the whole problem is once you had 6-10 sieged tanks, it was impossible to even get close. was a little ridiculous. forces terran now to actually get a richer unit composition, which is a good thing i never saw a big problem in tanks. not when playing T,not when playing against T (me random) or when watching reps or streams. also 95% of the players 1a one big ball into tank lines(inlcuding me most of the time).on pretty much no map is it possible to properly flank. so we now nerf units cause the maps are bad/people play stupid ? (terrain plays a HUGE role vs tanks. look at the dimaga game on metalopolis. he crushed the T in most of the fights. but in that one fight where evrything clumped up on one side the tanks destroyd evrything. for those newguys that dont know how much flanking and terrain changes fights ) also this patch will do the exact opposite regarding unit variety. you will see T going pure bio trying to end the game asap all the time. the tank/bc nerfs will change gameplay and progress of the game for the worse. | ||
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:12 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: i never saw a big problem in tanks. not when playing T,not when playing against T (me random) or when watching reps or streams. also 95% of the players 1a one big ball into tank lines(inlcuding me most of the time).on pretty much no map is it possible to properly flank. so we now nerf units cause the maps are bad/people play stupid ? also this patch will do the exact opposite regarding unit variety. you will see T going pure bio trying to end the game asap all the time. the tank/bc nerfs will change gameplay and progress of the game for the worse. As far as zerg is concerned though, even if a flank is possible, good luck getting it if you dont have creep spread around the other side to flank, plus any decent level terran is going to be blowing up your tumors as they move out, building sensor towers to see the enemy units positions etc. Does this change do anything for banelings? banelings only have 30 hp, so they will get 1 shotted (direct hit) but the ones hit by the splash will now survive... right? If thats the case, I think banelings probably just got a bit better against terran... (not like they weren't good already or anything, it was just attacking bio backed up with siege tanks wasn't too fun) edit: then again you are right, as far as positioning is concerned, a map thats larger and more open, that lets zerg spread his units out on his attack, is just horrible for tanks, and with this damage nerf, it will probably make it even more powerful. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:02 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I think the zealot nerf was needed for PvP, zealot rushes are a little too strong and do break a lot of games in this match up. Yeah, Protoss was overpowered in PvP. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
There's a difference between a race being overpowered in a matchup and a matchup being "broken". Many would argue that ZvZ is broken as well, because of ling/baneling antics. | ||
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LorDo
Sweden485 Posts
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:22 archon256 wrote: There's a difference between a race being overpowered in a matchup and a matchup being "broken". Many would argue that ZvZ is broken as well, because of ling/baneling antics. That's just the way it is. ZvZ in Brood War isn't broken just because every game is muta/ling. 9pylon, 10gate at choke, 12gate stops Zealot rushes cold if you rush to get your first Sentry out after you've got your 3rd Zealot in production I've found. Not to mention if your opponent isn't rushing, you can always prod at him with those moderately early Zealots. This nerf won't even affect Zealot rushes in PvP, since the units you normally have when being rushed are also Zealots. Your defense is as nerfed as the offense, unless you do a build along the lines of what I said, as the Sentry will have a 5 second advantage over the Zealots that he's more than likely building in comparison to how it stands now. | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
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FortuneSyn
1825 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:02 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I think the zealot nerf was needed for PvP, zealot rushes are a little too strong and do break a lot of games in this match up. I like to see Ultralisk weekened because I thought they were too strong in ZvP too. ehh zealot rushes? this affects absolutely nothing in pvp, it only makes korean 4wg allin harder to defend. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1825 Posts
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:12 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: i never saw a big problem in tanks. not when playing T,not when playing against T (me random) or when watching reps or streams. also 95% of the players 1a one big ball into tank lines(inlcuding me most of the time).on pretty much no map is it possible to properly flank. so we now nerf units cause the maps are bad/people play stupid ? (terrain plays a HUGE role vs tanks. look at the dimaga game on metalopolis. he crushed the T in most of the fights. but in that one fight where evrything clumped up on one side the tanks destroyd evrything. for those newguys that dont know how much flanking and terrain changes fights ) also this patch will do the exact opposite regarding unit variety. you will see T going pure bio trying to end the game asap all the time. the tank/bc nerfs will change gameplay and progress of the game for the worse. The thing is, and it's what I wanted to point out before, is this tank nerf doesn't really change anything. Tanks are still as strong as before. Just weaker against those three major units I mentioned specifically (yes it affects other units, but I think those three are really the only major ones, banelings will still die when theres more than one tank). Against EVERYTHING else, it's the exact same. So it's not that bad of a nerf. Just gives the tank one vulnerability on the ground (against light), which is fine if u have proper unit compositions. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
@ Blizzard: GJ!  | ||
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Dionyseus
United States2068 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:40 FortuneSyn wrote: ehh zealot rushes? this affects absolutely nothing in pvp, it only makes korean 4wg allin harder to defend. Don't forget that the warpgate cooldown will be increased by 5 seconds. I don't see how that would make it harder to defend 4 gate all-in, if anything it'd be easier. | ||
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