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Forum Index > SC2 General
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DeltruS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2214 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#61
Does the tank change actually alter the hits to kill on any zerg unit without upgrades?
http://grooveshark.com/#/deltrus/music
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#62
On August 28 2010 02:20 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
reason sounds very weird and if that tank change goes live youll see pretty much only bio in all matchups(even more so then now) .

Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 02:19 vyyye wrote:
This is interesting to say the least.. The tank nerf is quite severe, but odds are TvT might turn out a bit more bio centric now? Hm, interesting.


it already is mostly rauder+tanks on most maps.




Marines now will take a lot less splash, so maybe they'll be worth getting past minute 4.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
koppik
Profile Joined April 2010
United States676 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#63
Yeah, with this patch, I'm kind of expecting the top 32 in the GSL to be 50% Terran and 50% Zerg.

It's not like Protoss was winning games at the top level BEFORE the zeaot nerf.
Kpyolysis32
Profile Joined April 2010
553 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#64
Chargelots are going to rape basically all Terran stuff except the Hellion, now. Zealots are actually tougher versus Tank than they were in Brood War, thanks to the fact that their shields take the reduced damage, and they're already great versus Bio and resilient to EMP. Hmm...

I also wonder if the Zealot build time nerf will make it so that 1 Gate Core will be able to consistantly hold 2-Gate Zealot in PvP. Hmm..
Man, do I not keep this up to date, or what?
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#65
On August 28 2010 02:19 InToTheWannaB wrote:
"Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels" ? Who gives a rats ass if a silver level player can't deal with a zealot rush? I'm zerg and never really had that big of a problem stoping zealot rushs. Hell I dont see pro matchs where protoss players are winning massive amounts of games with proxy zealot rushs too. I can't say I understand that change to much. The siege tank change seems cool. Maybe now zerglings and zealots could be useful vs them. I like most of the other changes as well from the look of things.
I've seen comments that Zealot rushes are too strong vs Zerg at the highest level from players like Idra. Not sure if I agree with that though after watching as many korean reps as I can get my hands on (which is more than you would think). It looks perfectly playable and Zerg has a good winrate.

This really fucks with PvP though, Zealot based builds (like my Zealot/Sentry which I blatantly stole from naz) are going to be a lot less effective
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#66
On August 28 2010 02:25 Kraz.Del wrote:
Does the tank change actually alter the hits to kill on any zerg unit without upgrades?


Hydralisk- 2 to 3.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#67
Yeah. I like that Blizzard is being really cautious about everything. Still not a fan of the zealot building time increase though. Steppes or close positions metal in PvZ are going to be a nightmare
Life is Good.
monx
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada1400 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#68
Toss are still the worst race after theses changes.
@ggmonx
SiegeFlank
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States410 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#69
On August 28 2010 02:19 InToTheWannaB wrote:
"Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels" ? Who gives a rats ass if a silver level player can't deal with a zealot rush? I'm zerg and never really had that big of a problem stoping zealot rushs. Hell I dont see pro matchs where protoss players are winning massive amounts of games with proxy zealot rushs too. I can't say I understand that change to much. The siege tank change seems cool. Maybe now zerglings and zealots could be useful vs them. I like most of the other changes as well from the look of things.


Even IdrA has said that 2gate aggressive Zealot play is too strong against Zerg, especially if they're fast expanding. It was another factor contributing to Zerg's really limited early game.
Bird up
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
August 27 2010 17:25 GMT
#70
On August 28 2010 02:21 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 02:12 TMTurtle wrote:
I don't like the zealot change vs 6pool.

Yes seriously. 7 pool is going to be x10 more broken now than it was before. It was already hard as all hell to stop on Steppes without 10gating, now 10gate will be mandatory to be safe from lings. Hell, even then I don't know if you'll be able to get the zeal on time.


I'm 99% sure you cannot get a Zealot on time on a map like Steppes now even with a 10 gate.

Anyone else still think DO will still suck beyond belief?
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
August 27 2010 17:26 GMT
#71
Seems to be going in the right direction, but I really feel that reapers are/were far more problematic for P than Z. Most maps P can go fast first stalker and hold off the reaper aggression without too much trouble, however when the T proxies and/or the match is on a small size map it is very possible to get that first reaper in the P base before a single stalker comes out, even if they are using the optimal build to get that stalker.

I actually think that the best way to fix reapers is to increase the upgrade time on their nitro packs, whilst slightly lowering their base move speed. The whole problem with reapers versus P and Z is that you either need ranged units, static, and in the case of Z ling speed to counter them as with the nitro packs all Z and P melee units are too slow to reach the reapers, hell if you are facing someone with strong reaper micro they don't even need the nitro packs to escape un-upgraded zeals and lings. Quite simply I don't see a 5 second build time nerf to reapers affecting the ability of a T to get one in your base before you can have the necessary defense even if the reapers were scouted. In fact with the nitro packs upgrade remaining as is, it would make reapers MORE powerful not less as nitro packs and the reaper completing could be timed almost perfectly to finish simultaneously.
i-bonjwa
aeoliant
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada361 Posts
August 27 2010 17:26 GMT
#72
well i'm not sad about the reaper nerf but i don't really understand the bc nerf. Arent air units (viking, void ray, corrupter) supposed to counter the bc? and the bc should own everything else?
Kokosaft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany172 Posts
August 27 2010 17:26 GMT
#73
On August 28 2010 02:23 dvide wrote:
Why didn't they just make siege tanks overkill like brood war? Make the attack a very fast projectile, so not only will the tanks overkill but speed zerglings could run through them? I mean, it's still a pleasant change, but it would be more skill based and provide more interesting gameplay that way I feel.


they can't, thats why.

In one the the many interviews a developer stated, that it's actually not an AI-thing with the overkill, it's in the engine, when units attack every unit attacks at a different time (just some ms difference) and because tanks hit instantly they cant overkill
DocM
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States212 Posts
August 27 2010 17:26 GMT
#74
ultra "nerf" is a buff guys...
when attacking a planetary fortress, the ultras cleave will now apply. This means that all those scv's that repair it are going down really really fast, and so is the PF. And i can imagine my supply plummeting now with an ultra lawn mower loose in my base cutting down my supply depots.
OminouS
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden1343 Posts
August 27 2010 17:26 GMT
#75
My precious zealots =/
On the 6th day JF made Reavers and on the 7th day JF put his opponent to rest
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
August 27 2010 17:27 GMT
#76
I actually find DO to be the easiest map to expand on in the entire ladder pool, so that change seems rather strange to me, but maybe thats because my main race is protoss.

The zealot nerf is gonna be lame against early pools, but I guess it was needed in pvp. I'm glad they recognize the tank needs to be fixed, but I dont know if their solution is a good one. I think siege mode should just be removed all together. That would greatly improve tvt and help with the other mus a lot, as well as with team games. It is lame in 2v2 when a terran masses tanks and his ally just builds support units. It becomes impossible to break the tank line.
billyX333
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1360 Posts
August 27 2010 17:27 GMT
#77
omfg i can use hydras in ZvT again
awesome
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
August 27 2010 17:27 GMT
#78
I like it. David Kim knows what he's doing. Sensible changes. The zealot build time increase was really needed.
koppik
Profile Joined April 2010
United States676 Posts
August 27 2010 17:27 GMT
#79
On August 28 2010 02:25 Kraz.Del wrote:
Does the tank change actually alter the hits to kill on any zerg unit without upgrades?
The hydralisk. It'll also let some zerglings survive the splash on the siege tank, but the big effect would be that hydralisks are more viable in the match-up, though the tank is still going to be a great way to kill them.
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-27 17:30:11
August 27 2010 17:27 GMT
#80
On August 28 2010 02:21 vyyye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 02:19 InToTheWannaB wrote:
"Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels" ? Who gives a rats ass if a silver level player can't deal with a zealot rush? I'm zerg and never really had that big of a problem stoping zealot rushs. Hell I dont see pro matchs where protoss players are winning massive amounts of games with proxy zealot rushs too. I can't say I understand that change to much. The siege tank change seems cool. Maybe now zerglings and zealots could be useful vs them. I like most of the other changes as well from the look of things.

Blizzard gives a rats arse as even silver league players are customers. Yeah, I don't agree with it. But they want low level players to buy the following expansions as well, not just the competitive ones.

Similar to the Forge change, proxy cannon rushes wasn't really a problem below platinum.


7pool is totally imba at silver level. i demand 500min pool!

seriously if they start balancing for the "noobs" the game will go down the drain. thats why i really dont like what ive read in the OP. its sounds like "meh.. some scrubs getting rushed. fix that. ppl cry about T.. lets brake tanks, and mass ultra is op so nerf the vs armored dmg by 10%. patch done yeah!"


On August 28 2010 02:27 LaLuSh wrote:
I like it. David Kim knows what he's doing. Sensible changes. The zealot build time increase was really needed.


the tank change is the opposite of sensible and imho mostly a result of the shitty maps. tanks are strong on maps with small chokes where you cant flank? madness!
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
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