EPT<3
The Truth About Diamond League - Page 44
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JrK
United States283 Posts
<3 | ||
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divinesage
Singapore649 Posts
Also, I think it's a good post to remind ourselves how inexperienced we are in the face of expert players. Our points deceive us. | ||
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Dookie1
United States70 Posts
i dont think ranking has any real indication of skill except some vague boundaries | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
On September 13 2010 21:41 Kazang wrote: Forum needs a rep or thumbs up system for posts. The OP was one of the best I've read on here for quite a while. I think that is a great idea too.  I certainly love to see top tier players discuss the game, but don't know if i think a separate forum for this is a smart move, rather the moderators can be even stricter than they are. | ||
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friendlybus
Australia78 Posts
On September 13 2010 21:56 StarStruck wrote: Thank God I didn't miss this post. TY Saracen. I had the urge to write something like this, but hell I'm too lazy. It's about time someone brought attention to this. This is just one of the reasons I tend to avoid the SC2 forums altogether now like so many others. No one likes a cesspool of shit. * I see a lot of you continuing to miss the point. Perhaps you should read what is said after the blue. The thing is there are some diamond players who think they are really good when they aren't. They know too few builds and don't respond well when another player who understands the game knows how to counter it with ease. I repeat. There are two types of diamond players: 1. Knows a few builds, tries to win in the early game, don't have a backup plan in case plan A fails, suspect micro/macro and they don't respond well when countered. 2. Has tested several builds/studies the game, learns various counters to all kinds of strats with more frequent scouting (hard to catch off guard), more responsive and intuition (if player x does A, player y does B/C/D). These players place well in tournaments. The SC2 forums are flooded with type A who think they are all-knowing when they are spreading false information more times than not and many forum veterans are turned off by it, hence they don't post and will continue to not post. If the problem is mediocre but cocky diamond players, how would you solve that? Would you support a rep system, or something else? I personally (in a perfect world) would love a modification of slashdot's moderation system, but it's pretty clear imo that changing the way the forum deals with discussions here may allow us to filter out things that are less useful. | ||
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
Why? I used to read (unfortunately) threads on SK-Gaming and in the beginning (2003~) you'd have ignorant kids who'd thumb down every post that isn't theirs and made spam accounts etc to thumb up theirs. The only way if you want a quality thread/posts is IF the mods manually pick posts and check if the post is insightfull for everyone. There's a dutch soccer forum where this is happening although it isn't quite perfect since it depends on the mods and some mods are biased which is also not what you want in this system. However I know that this system works perfect for TL Mods since I haven't had any indication that TL mods are biased towards something / someone. So in summary: A system where ONLY mods can thumbs up / thumbds down posts/threads much like the warning on posts and people who has the credentials to post on a matter that has some insightfull views on the matter like Day9/qxc etc. These people should ALSO be picked and selected by TL mods. This way people who are going to open a thread know 1 thing. Does the OP have credentials to back it up and/or is the information posted in the OP good for development or anything related to the section that can help people. I seriously think TL should have this kind of system. Right now we have threads xxx build etc which supposedly is viable etc but then turns out it's from some bronze player. With the flood of sc2 players there is no check on whether the player has credentials to post such a build and whether people reading the thread should take it seriously or not. | ||
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Effect010
Germany89 Posts
On August 25 2010 02:28 Dragonsven wrote: Yet another post describing why diamond players are not good and only old school players should comment on anything. I was expecting a rule on post count by the end. You should realize this kind of elitism does not work and you will end up driving all the new posters away once the initial boost from SC2 ends. User was temp banned for this post. why especially is he not allowed to criticize this treath? i don´t see him bm´ing anyone... | ||
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friendlybus
Australia78 Posts
On September 13 2010 23:28 shannn wrote: The only way if you want a quality thread/posts is IF the mods manually pick posts and check if the post is insightfull for everyone. There's a dutch soccer forum where this is happening although it isn't quite perfect since it depends on the mods and some mods are biased which is also not what you want in this system. However I know that this system works perfect for TL Mods since I haven't had any indication that TL mods are biased towards something / someone. So in summary: A system where ONLY mods can thumbs up / thumbds down posts/threads much like the warning on posts and people who has the credentials to post on a matter that has some insightfull views on the matter like Day9/qxc etc. These people should ALSO be picked and selected by TL mods. This way people who are going to open a thread know 1 thing. Does the OP have credentials to back it up and/or is the information posted in the OP good for development or anything related to the section that can help people. I seriously think TL should have this kind of system. Right now we have threads xxx build etc which supposedly is viable etc but then turns out it's from some bronze player. With the flood of sc2 players there is no check on whether the player has credentials to post such a build and whether people reading the thread should take it seriously or not. What's the result of being down modded in that system, are you hidden or just rated poorly? A select pool of moderators would be in a (slight) danger of developing a strong groupthink attitude, but overall I totally agree with you, that sounds like a decent system to me. | ||
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HuHEN
United Kingdom514 Posts
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
On September 13 2010 23:38 friendlybus wrote: What's the result of being down modded in that system, are you hidden or just rated poorly? A select pool of moderators would be in a (slight) danger of developing a strong groupthink attitude, but overall I totally agree with you, that sounds like a decent system to me. It will be like a color to your post. If it has good credentials it will have let's say a green color. If it's a troll then he'll have an orange color. You'll still see the post (or minimize the post if the TL mods wants this) but people will then know oh it's an orange color it means it's a troll so I shouldn't be taking this all too seriously. For a beginner / new people they will have normal blue color which indicates the post hasn't had posted any wrong things or good things yet. edit: And yea it would possible that it could develop a strong group think attitude but it already is like that on TL and always was like that (read forum rules  ). So that's why I don't think it will be a problem and this will take the "old" TL forum threads back with a slight change of the future which will be insightfull and good for development YET new people can also bring their info on the table as long as it's proven with replays or screens or any factual indication. | ||
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
On September 13 2010 22:32 arb wrote: I dont even think theres anyone near 1800, so we'll assume white-ra and idra are all C players np. People are closing in on 2,000. This whole thread is pretty much nothing but incendiary, though. You guys are way too hung up on the past and need to stop focusing so damn much on equating ICCUP to SC2. | ||
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skipdog172
United States331 Posts
You certainly have a point, but all I'm seeing in almost all of the strategy posts is people simply posting "here is my league and point total, and here is what I think:". It is valuable to at least know where a poster's skill level is at. I guess what bothers me the most, is that this game is so new, that even the pros don't have this kind of intricate and deep knowledge of the game that many diamond players don't have. The pros just have insane mechanics. They aren't coming up with these new strategies all by themselves, they are doing the same flavor of the month builds as the rest of us who keep up to date. I just don't quite understand what the strategy forum is for, if it isn't theorycrafting. I think all of us have a very good grasp on what is "good strategy" in SC2, it's just that most of us don't have the ridiculous APM and mechanics of the top pros. Why not let this forum develop like any good, quality forum, and let the community gain respect for the very knowledgeable posters and let the individual filter out the idiots? This is how all good gaming forums operate, no matter what the game. Frequent users get to know who the really knowledgeable guys are and can pretty easily ignore the rest. Why should we care that some noob is going to take the advice of a random post because he read that he's a diamond player? Who cares? I still don't get this whole "people are using their league and points total to prove their point" thing that people keep screaming. I'm just not seeing it. I'm seeing people post their league and point total just so you can have a good idea where that player is at. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
If you're 1300 diamond you'd go "well i dont think 1200 diamond players have anything usefull to say, lets make sure only 1200+ people post". Why stop at 1300? why not go 1500+? What decides the cutoff? So, to the OP, would you be fine if the strategy forum was only made for people above your skill level, so that you wouldnt be able to post? This forum is one of the most high quality forums i've ever been on, but ironically enough the way that forums get trash posters is by limiting the amount of users who are allowed to post, just look at Arenajunkies.com. That site is infested with trolls and people who think that just because they get some rating they know everything. | ||
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Darkn3ss
United States717 Posts
On August 25 2010 02:19 Saracen wrote: So why am I telling you this? I just want you to know that whenever someone says he's a 800 or 900 point diamond player before giving advice, he's not saying anything about whether or not he knows anything about the game. It's actually very likely that he doesn't know what he's talking about, which would be a typical case of the blind leading the blind. And yes, it's entirely possible to get into "high diamond" by rehearsing one allin build over and over again. Actually, that's probably the easiest way to do so. But eventually, you're going to have to change it up, you're going to actually have to understand the game. I've got replays to prove it!!! Top 3 Diamond Terran/Toss playing like they're D- on iccup. On September 13 2010 22:32 JrK wrote: A blue was here??? Sorry I always feel a strong urge to pick one people using wow terms in sc2. It's like the guy telling me to reroll my class... Otherwise I agree with your post. =) <3 ? He meant after the "EDIT:" which is BLUE??? -.- | ||
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Azile
United States339 Posts
I played a 1300 terran yesterday who opened with 4 rax marines with only 1 reactor and no orbital command. I'll repeat that... 1300 diamond. Two command centers, 16 minute game. No orbital commands. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On September 13 2010 22:32 JrK wrote: A blue was here??? Sorry I always feel a strong urge to pick one people using wow terms in sc2. It's like the guy telling me to reroll my class... Otherwise I agree with your post. =) <3 .. I meant the summary he edited into the post. This isn't b.net forums and I hope to God it never turns that way. It's getting a lot harder to filter through the good posts from the bad, but that comes with the territory with TL getting more exposure. :/ On September 13 2010 23:26 friendlybus wrote: If the problem is mediocre but cocky diamond players, how would you solve that? Would you support a rep system, or something else? I personally (in a perfect world) would love a modification of slashdot's moderation system, but it's pretty clear imo that changing the way the forum deals with discussions here may allow us to filter out things that are less useful. You want the simple solution? Give Rekrul his ban hammer back. Then again, I don't think that will make him check the forums more regularly. The Admins used to ban posters on sight without any warning or temporary ban. It's their house. If you don't respect it then you might as well get lost. It would certainly add more value to the website again because it's getting flooded with a lot of shit recently. For the players looking for answers. The Liquipedia is a great resource and is updated regularly. You can find many solutions to your problems there and God use the search engine. So many topics have been covered already ;/ | ||
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Moves
United States35 Posts
That is if the idea is to encourage more progamer involvement. | ||
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btlyger
United States470 Posts
I was never an avid ICCup player, but I know in most ranking system there is a huge leap in terms of B to A, just as there is from D to C. I don't know if the lack of A is because of arrogance or just the fact that you don't know where A players stand currently, but I would love to see a similar scale based off actual players who were D-A level and see where they currently stand. | ||
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RespectThis
United States1 Post
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:03 btlyger wrote: The main problem I see with your rankings are the fact that there is nothing higher then B. I was never an avid ICCup player, but I know in most ranking system there is a huge leap in terms of B to A, just as there is from D to C. I don't know if the lack of A is because of arrogance or just the fact that you don't know where A players stand currently, but I would love to see a similar scale based off actual players who were D-A level and see where they currently stand. Nobody is actually at an 'A' level right now IMO. Even the best of the best make sloppy mistakes, huge errors, have unrefined play, etc etc. I wouldn't qualify anyone at that level yet. Idra is close perhaps, but he's the only foreign that I think is near that level. Regardless, the point is that even in diamond there's such a massive skill gap from low to high that the league means nothing on its own. People go on dickwaving contests because they're 600 diamond and they think that makes them good, but they often post things that are dumb, silly, or outright wrong. That's all Saracen's really trying to say. Honestly, I don't know how we'd agree where a "cutoff' would be or what that would be at this point. Perhaps global rank so it scales over time? Perhaps simply once you get the status to post in restricted threads you can't lose it by rating? There's lots of little details. The overall idea though is that this system needs to exist in some form or another. Right now top players are scared to post because of flamers and dumbasses. We just need a filter to get rid of most of the crap posts. Even a very lenient filter (e.g. only 800+ diamond) would cut down the amount of bad posting by orders of magnitude. Keep in mind that player skill is like a pyramid, so the further up you go there are, percentage-wise, exponentially fewer people in the pool of eligible posters. You knock off 95% of bnet just by saying 'diamond only'. That's 95% less bad posts (if we assume a linear correspondence, which obviously isn't the case but just roll with it). | ||
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