|
On May 06 2011 02:24 rO_Or wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:21 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:14 DoubleReed wrote:On May 06 2011 01:41 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 01:34 DoubleReed wrote:
Yes that's basically the problem. Scouting is the issue, not the units themselves. Zerg needs that scouting information more than the other races because scouting is so tied to zerg macro.
Well I certainly agree this is a difficulty of Zerg, but I'm not at all convinced it's actually broken. Their mechanic forces them to tread a very thin line at the competitive level (at lower levels you can be safer and just suck up the economic cost), but that doesn't mean the wire isn't still there. Just really hard to find.
Unlike Terran and Protoss which have better defenses, Zerg cannot do some sort of middle-ground where our macro is so-so and our defense is so-so. You will lose instantly to all-ins and you will be at a disadvantage otherwise. We have to be able to react extremely, and without scouting we just have to guess.
Well, you can, and you do. Most Zerg openers make a pool before hatch. It's not the most economically efficient way, but it's a relatively small sacrifice and it stops a lot of nonsense like cannon rushes. The trick is to find out how to make that pool as late as you can, how to make as few zerglings as you can, when to store larvae until you confirm something etc etc. It's really, really hard. I'm not surprised it kills Zergs left and right. But that doesn't make it broken. What? Yes, there are obviously things about pool first vs hatch first, and actually both have defensive abilities that are good. That's not what we're talking about though. I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player. You can't tread a middle ground with units and drones like that. You have to react extremely and without proper scouting that's just by chance. So it kills Zergs X% of the time if they're defending Y way. It's not "unbeatable". It's "by chance" because we cannot scout. Examples? I don't play the MU but do watch plenty of replays of it, and I can't recall any losses that weren't due to an easily identifiable mistake. It's so painfully obvious that you have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to zerg related discussion. This is just sad.
Says the guy who calls Kiwikaki terrible, whatever.
How bout those replays of Zergs dying to something they could do absolutely nothing about?
|
holy shit this thread is gonna get to 1000 pages soon :o
|
On May 06 2011 02:24 rO_Or wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:21 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:14 DoubleReed wrote:On May 06 2011 01:41 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 01:34 DoubleReed wrote:
Yes that's basically the problem. Scouting is the issue, not the units themselves. Zerg needs that scouting information more than the other races because scouting is so tied to zerg macro.
Well I certainly agree this is a difficulty of Zerg, but I'm not at all convinced it's actually broken. Their mechanic forces them to tread a very thin line at the competitive level (at lower levels you can be safer and just suck up the economic cost), but that doesn't mean the wire isn't still there. Just really hard to find.
Unlike Terran and Protoss which have better defenses, Zerg cannot do some sort of middle-ground where our macro is so-so and our defense is so-so. You will lose instantly to all-ins and you will be at a disadvantage otherwise. We have to be able to react extremely, and without scouting we just have to guess.
Well, you can, and you do. Most Zerg openers make a pool before hatch. It's not the most economically efficient way, but it's a relatively small sacrifice and it stops a lot of nonsense like cannon rushes. The trick is to find out how to make that pool as late as you can, how to make as few zerglings as you can, when to store larvae until you confirm something etc etc. It's really, really hard. I'm not surprised it kills Zergs left and right. But that doesn't make it broken. What? Yes, there are obviously things about pool first vs hatch first, and actually both have defensive abilities that are good. That's not what we're talking about though. I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player. You can't tread a middle ground with units and drones like that. You have to react extremely and without proper scouting that's just by chance. So it kills Zergs X% of the time if they're defending Y way. It's not "unbeatable". It's "by chance" because we cannot scout. Examples? I don't play the MU but do watch plenty of replays of it, and I can't recall any losses that weren't due to an easily identifiable mistake. It's so painfully obvious that you have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to zerg related discussion. This is just sad.
Totally agree.
It's painfull to see ppl argue about something they don't know..
|
On May 05 2011 07:02 Warrior Madness wrote:
The reason why this roach, hydra, early drop build is not solid is because you have to make a HUGE invesment (drop), and you MUST do damage to the protoss economy or you lose.
Everything is an investment, and if you don't do damage, you are slightly disadvantaged, you dont insta lose. This game is not as black and white as you say.
Zerg as a race is fundamentally broken. There are so many things they have no options to get out of.
Or maybe Overlords just don't move fast enough. Or maybe Zerg players suck like the rest of us.
Player A: Can scout and see any risks the opposing player is taking and adapt to them.
Player B: Cannot scout, cannot see any risks the opposing player is taking, must take ADDITIONAL risks to MAYBE be safe from a RANGE of potential risks player A can take.
Player A is flipping a coin to see if he can win. If his opponent's risk does not allow him to defend, player A wins.
Too theoretical for my liking, especially when we're so young in the game, we do not know the extend of Player A and Player B's abilities. Howabout you make some real suggestions to improve scouting.
True, but then why can't players like Sen or Dimaga win these tournaments, because they were ridiculously good BW players (easily White-Ra's level).
Why is MVP in Code A? MVP > IdrA in BW.
So many P/T players do hilariously greedy builds against Zergs
Protoss players do in the current metagame but Terran players in the current metagame are all-inning zerg. We don't want to play lategame against zerg.
You don't seem to understand how much of an investment it is for zergs. If the drops don't do anything they are in BIG trouble. See kiwi vs Idra game 5.
Didn't IdrA dominate Kiwi?
A former Korean Brood War pro stomped a foreigner tournament and that disproves his argument?
Koreans are not implicitly better than foreigners, exhibit A: Thorzain > MC, Dimaga > MVP.
|
On May 06 2011 02:26 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:24 rO_Or wrote:On May 06 2011 02:21 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:14 DoubleReed wrote:On May 06 2011 01:41 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 01:34 DoubleReed wrote:
Yes that's basically the problem. Scouting is the issue, not the units themselves. Zerg needs that scouting information more than the other races because scouting is so tied to zerg macro.
Well I certainly agree this is a difficulty of Zerg, but I'm not at all convinced it's actually broken. Their mechanic forces them to tread a very thin line at the competitive level (at lower levels you can be safer and just suck up the economic cost), but that doesn't mean the wire isn't still there. Just really hard to find.
Unlike Terran and Protoss which have better defenses, Zerg cannot do some sort of middle-ground where our macro is so-so and our defense is so-so. You will lose instantly to all-ins and you will be at a disadvantage otherwise. We have to be able to react extremely, and without scouting we just have to guess.
Well, you can, and you do. Most Zerg openers make a pool before hatch. It's not the most economically efficient way, but it's a relatively small sacrifice and it stops a lot of nonsense like cannon rushes. The trick is to find out how to make that pool as late as you can, how to make as few zerglings as you can, when to store larvae until you confirm something etc etc. It's really, really hard. I'm not surprised it kills Zergs left and right. But that doesn't make it broken. What? Yes, there are obviously things about pool first vs hatch first, and actually both have defensive abilities that are good. That's not what we're talking about though. I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player. You can't tread a middle ground with units and drones like that. You have to react extremely and without proper scouting that's just by chance. So it kills Zergs X% of the time if they're defending Y way. It's not "unbeatable". It's "by chance" because we cannot scout. Examples? I don't play the MU but do watch plenty of replays of it, and I can't recall any losses that weren't due to an easily identifiable mistake. It's so painfully obvious that you have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to zerg related discussion. This is just sad. Says the guy who calls Kiwikaki terrible, whatever. How bout those replays of Zergs dying to something they could do absolutely nothing about?
Again, it's not unbeatable. It's by chance.
I would need like a set of replays where the Zerg does some sort of defense and it works perfectly well and does decently economy-wise against a specific all-in where he all he scouted was 1rax 1gas terran, and then Zerg does the same defense but its a different all-in that kills him. But I don't even know if that would suffice. How exactly would I demonstrate this?
Maybe some other zergs can help me out. How would someone demonstrate what I'm saying?
|
On May 06 2011 02:26 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:24 rO_Or wrote:On May 06 2011 02:21 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:14 DoubleReed wrote:On May 06 2011 01:41 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 01:34 DoubleReed wrote:
Yes that's basically the problem. Scouting is the issue, not the units themselves. Zerg needs that scouting information more than the other races because scouting is so tied to zerg macro.
Well I certainly agree this is a difficulty of Zerg, but I'm not at all convinced it's actually broken. Their mechanic forces them to tread a very thin line at the competitive level (at lower levels you can be safer and just suck up the economic cost), but that doesn't mean the wire isn't still there. Just really hard to find.
Unlike Terran and Protoss which have better defenses, Zerg cannot do some sort of middle-ground where our macro is so-so and our defense is so-so. You will lose instantly to all-ins and you will be at a disadvantage otherwise. We have to be able to react extremely, and without scouting we just have to guess.
Well, you can, and you do. Most Zerg openers make a pool before hatch. It's not the most economically efficient way, but it's a relatively small sacrifice and it stops a lot of nonsense like cannon rushes. The trick is to find out how to make that pool as late as you can, how to make as few zerglings as you can, when to store larvae until you confirm something etc etc. It's really, really hard. I'm not surprised it kills Zergs left and right. But that doesn't make it broken. What? Yes, there are obviously things about pool first vs hatch first, and actually both have defensive abilities that are good. That's not what we're talking about though. I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player. You can't tread a middle ground with units and drones like that. You have to react extremely and without proper scouting that's just by chance. So it kills Zergs X% of the time if they're defending Y way. It's not "unbeatable". It's "by chance" because we cannot scout. Examples? I don't play the MU but do watch plenty of replays of it, and I can't recall any losses that weren't due to an easily identifiable mistake. It's so painfully obvious that you have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to zerg related discussion. This is just sad. Says the guy who calls Kiwikaki terrible, whatever. How bout those replays of Zergs dying to something they could do absolutely nothing about?
Again, twisting words, making assumption and more talking out of your rear end. When did I ever say anything about Kiwikaki? Go watch any zerg stream on TL and you might get a clue. You are like a child who keeps asking "why?" after every explanation given to them just to be annoying.
|
On May 06 2011 02:12 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 01:25 WhiteDog wrote:IdrA's complaint is basically that he can be caught off guard and not be able to do anything about that, not that Zerg units are shit. He wants the scouting so he doesn't get caught off guard. Zerg is unusually vulnerable to being caught off guard because of the larva mechanic, not because their units are bad (they aren't) or whatever. No you did not understood what IdrA's said. IdrA said that, in a strategy game, you need at least one of 2 things: 1) full map knowledge, so that you can instantly react to everything your opponent do OR 2) an "all purpose" build that can theorically, if played well, counter all the possible strat your opponent can do and still give you a decent maccro (slightly better or slightly weaker than your opponent, still close). Actually, this unnecessarily reduces strategies games into a either/or situation which is part of the problem. It's also possible to have an aggressive build that forces the other player to react to you. When you know that the player has to react to your build and not the other way around, you narrow the set of responses and unit compositions you have to face, thus allowing you safely build behind an aggressive opening as either they don't respond to your aggression and you create a lot of damage and/or you force them on a certain tech path that you're either teching to or ready to tech to. It may that in this particular case, Zerg is also unable to create aggressive builds that force their opponent to react to the Zerg build rather than constant Zerg reaction. I don't know. But notice, that those two options were framed in terms of strategy game theory. That is, in a strategy game, you need either full map knowledge to reaction or an all purpose build that will counter everything they can throw at you- again reactive. What it doesn't acknowledge is that in strategy games in general, there is the ability to have builds that force your opponent to react to your actions. So in that sense, Idra is creating a false dilemma for Day9 that Day9 cannot reasonably answer. That Idra does not consider active play in his list of options required for a strategy game is rather indicative of his passive BW style, but is not the only way of play a strategy game. And yes Idra's been mixing it up with with so-called 'silly' aggressive play, and maybe Zerg is unable to make aggressive builds, but I find it problematic that he ignores the option entirely when describing strategy game theory in general. Having said all that, I would like to see the Overlord speed increased and have wanted it to be faster since Beta when a lot of the scouting complaints first came out.
That's an excellent post in an ocean of...let's say not so good posts xD
Ok, I wanted to stay away from the balance debate, but now it's nearly 100 pages that we read that P and T have builds can can kill zergs without them being able to make anything. Intuitively, I'd say it's not true (from my extensive watching of GSL, NASL, MLG and a lot others), but let's go into concrete here : what are those builds ? Perhaps the discussion will move on a little (for better or worse, not sure) if we stop talking from an immaterial and theoric point.
|
On May 06 2011 02:32 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:26 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:24 rO_Or wrote:On May 06 2011 02:21 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:14 DoubleReed wrote:On May 06 2011 01:41 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 01:34 DoubleReed wrote:
Yes that's basically the problem. Scouting is the issue, not the units themselves. Zerg needs that scouting information more than the other races because scouting is so tied to zerg macro.
Well I certainly agree this is a difficulty of Zerg, but I'm not at all convinced it's actually broken. Their mechanic forces them to tread a very thin line at the competitive level (at lower levels you can be safer and just suck up the economic cost), but that doesn't mean the wire isn't still there. Just really hard to find.
Unlike Terran and Protoss which have better defenses, Zerg cannot do some sort of middle-ground where our macro is so-so and our defense is so-so. You will lose instantly to all-ins and you will be at a disadvantage otherwise. We have to be able to react extremely, and without scouting we just have to guess.
Well, you can, and you do. Most Zerg openers make a pool before hatch. It's not the most economically efficient way, but it's a relatively small sacrifice and it stops a lot of nonsense like cannon rushes. The trick is to find out how to make that pool as late as you can, how to make as few zerglings as you can, when to store larvae until you confirm something etc etc. It's really, really hard. I'm not surprised it kills Zergs left and right. But that doesn't make it broken. What? Yes, there are obviously things about pool first vs hatch first, and actually both have defensive abilities that are good. That's not what we're talking about though. I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player. You can't tread a middle ground with units and drones like that. You have to react extremely and without proper scouting that's just by chance. So it kills Zergs X% of the time if they're defending Y way. It's not "unbeatable". It's "by chance" because we cannot scout. Examples? I don't play the MU but do watch plenty of replays of it, and I can't recall any losses that weren't due to an easily identifiable mistake. It's so painfully obvious that you have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to zerg related discussion. This is just sad. Says the guy who calls Kiwikaki terrible, whatever. How bout those replays of Zergs dying to something they could do absolutely nothing about? Again, it's not unbeatable. It's by chance. I would need like a set of replays where the Zerg does some sort of defense and it works perfectly well and does decently economy-wise against a specific all-in where he all he scouted was 1rax 1gas terran, and then Zerg does the same defense but its a different all-in that kills him. How would I demonstrate this?
Just that. An allin that kills a Zerg playing standard (scouting properly and responding correctly to as much as he can see) and making no mistakes.
|
On May 06 2011 02:32 rO_Or wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:26 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:24 rO_Or wrote:On May 06 2011 02:21 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:14 DoubleReed wrote:On May 06 2011 01:41 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 01:34 DoubleReed wrote:
Yes that's basically the problem. Scouting is the issue, not the units themselves. Zerg needs that scouting information more than the other races because scouting is so tied to zerg macro.
Well I certainly agree this is a difficulty of Zerg, but I'm not at all convinced it's actually broken. Their mechanic forces them to tread a very thin line at the competitive level (at lower levels you can be safer and just suck up the economic cost), but that doesn't mean the wire isn't still there. Just really hard to find.
Unlike Terran and Protoss which have better defenses, Zerg cannot do some sort of middle-ground where our macro is so-so and our defense is so-so. You will lose instantly to all-ins and you will be at a disadvantage otherwise. We have to be able to react extremely, and without scouting we just have to guess.
Well, you can, and you do. Most Zerg openers make a pool before hatch. It's not the most economically efficient way, but it's a relatively small sacrifice and it stops a lot of nonsense like cannon rushes. The trick is to find out how to make that pool as late as you can, how to make as few zerglings as you can, when to store larvae until you confirm something etc etc. It's really, really hard. I'm not surprised it kills Zergs left and right. But that doesn't make it broken. What? Yes, there are obviously things about pool first vs hatch first, and actually both have defensive abilities that are good. That's not what we're talking about though. I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player. You can't tread a middle ground with units and drones like that. You have to react extremely and without proper scouting that's just by chance. So it kills Zergs X% of the time if they're defending Y way. It's not "unbeatable". It's "by chance" because we cannot scout. Examples? I don't play the MU but do watch plenty of replays of it, and I can't recall any losses that weren't due to an easily identifiable mistake. It's so painfully obvious that you have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to zerg related discussion. This is just sad. Says the guy who calls Kiwikaki terrible, whatever. How bout those replays of Zergs dying to something they could do absolutely nothing about? Again, twisting words, making assumption and more talking out of your rear end. When did I ever say anything about Kiwikaki? Go watch any zerg stream on TL and you might get a clue. You are like a child who keeps asking "why?" after every explanation given to them just to be annoying.
But ... there is no game where Zerg lost while he could not do better.
Only games where Zergs could do better.
Most of them obvious.
But i think you don't want to give him something, he just asked simple. Because the things he wants don't exist.
|
God Idra's comments were soooo funny. Love it :D
|
On May 06 2011 02:32 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:26 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:24 rO_Or wrote:On May 06 2011 02:21 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:14 DoubleReed wrote:On May 06 2011 01:41 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 01:34 DoubleReed wrote:
Yes that's basically the problem. Scouting is the issue, not the units themselves. Zerg needs that scouting information more than the other races because scouting is so tied to zerg macro.
Well I certainly agree this is a difficulty of Zerg, but I'm not at all convinced it's actually broken. Their mechanic forces them to tread a very thin line at the competitive level (at lower levels you can be safer and just suck up the economic cost), but that doesn't mean the wire isn't still there. Just really hard to find.
Unlike Terran and Protoss which have better defenses, Zerg cannot do some sort of middle-ground where our macro is so-so and our defense is so-so. You will lose instantly to all-ins and you will be at a disadvantage otherwise. We have to be able to react extremely, and without scouting we just have to guess.
Well, you can, and you do. Most Zerg openers make a pool before hatch. It's not the most economically efficient way, but it's a relatively small sacrifice and it stops a lot of nonsense like cannon rushes. The trick is to find out how to make that pool as late as you can, how to make as few zerglings as you can, when to store larvae until you confirm something etc etc. It's really, really hard. I'm not surprised it kills Zergs left and right. But that doesn't make it broken. What? Yes, there are obviously things about pool first vs hatch first, and actually both have defensive abilities that are good. That's not what we're talking about though. I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player. You can't tread a middle ground with units and drones like that. You have to react extremely and without proper scouting that's just by chance. So it kills Zergs X% of the time if they're defending Y way. It's not "unbeatable". It's "by chance" because we cannot scout. Examples? I don't play the MU but do watch plenty of replays of it, and I can't recall any losses that weren't due to an easily identifiable mistake. It's so painfully obvious that you have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to zerg related discussion. This is just sad. Says the guy who calls Kiwikaki terrible, whatever. How bout those replays of Zergs dying to something they could do absolutely nothing about? Again, it's not unbeatable. It's by chance. I would need like a set of replays where the Zerg does some sort of defense and it works perfectly well and does decently economy-wise against a specific all-in where he all he scouted was 1rax 1gas terran, and then Zerg does the same defense but its a different all-in that kills him. But I don't even know if that would suffice. How exactly would I demonstrate this? Maybe some other zergs can help me out. How would someone demonstrate what I'm saying?
My friend and I are working on this build. It's only been one day but it already demonstrates great promise. It can defend Marauder/Hellion all ins, Banshee/Hellion all ins, and probably the rest of them, all the while saturating 2 bases as fast as we've seen IdrA do it from replays. You sheep are fundamental problem with zerg. The build is not as refined as we want it yet, but you will know about it when it is time.
|
On May 06 2011 02:32 rO_Or wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:26 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:24 rO_Or wrote:On May 06 2011 02:21 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 02:14 DoubleReed wrote:On May 06 2011 01:41 Yaotzin wrote:On May 06 2011 01:34 DoubleReed wrote:
Yes that's basically the problem. Scouting is the issue, not the units themselves. Zerg needs that scouting information more than the other races because scouting is so tied to zerg macro.
Well I certainly agree this is a difficulty of Zerg, but I'm not at all convinced it's actually broken. Their mechanic forces them to tread a very thin line at the competitive level (at lower levels you can be safer and just suck up the economic cost), but that doesn't mean the wire isn't still there. Just really hard to find.
Unlike Terran and Protoss which have better defenses, Zerg cannot do some sort of middle-ground where our macro is so-so and our defense is so-so. You will lose instantly to all-ins and you will be at a disadvantage otherwise. We have to be able to react extremely, and without scouting we just have to guess.
Well, you can, and you do. Most Zerg openers make a pool before hatch. It's not the most economically efficient way, but it's a relatively small sacrifice and it stops a lot of nonsense like cannon rushes. The trick is to find out how to make that pool as late as you can, how to make as few zerglings as you can, when to store larvae until you confirm something etc etc. It's really, really hard. I'm not surprised it kills Zergs left and right. But that doesn't make it broken. What? Yes, there are obviously things about pool first vs hatch first, and actually both have defensive abilities that are good. That's not what we're talking about though. I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player. You can't tread a middle ground with units and drones like that. You have to react extremely and without proper scouting that's just by chance. So it kills Zergs X% of the time if they're defending Y way. It's not "unbeatable". It's "by chance" because we cannot scout. Examples? I don't play the MU but do watch plenty of replays of it, and I can't recall any losses that weren't due to an easily identifiable mistake. It's so painfully obvious that you have no idea what youre talking about when it comes to zerg related discussion. This is just sad. Says the guy who calls Kiwikaki terrible, whatever. How bout those replays of Zergs dying to something they could do absolutely nothing about? Again, twisting words, making assumption and more talking out of your rear end. When did I ever say anything about Kiwikaki? Go watch any zerg stream on TL and you might get a clue. You are like a child who keeps asking "why?" after every explanation given to them just to be annoying.
You said you don't die to roach/ling with sentry expand unless you're terrible. Kiwikaki died twice in 2 series like that.
I watch Sheth all the time.
|
Well, KiWI totally fucked up his FFs on Shattered Temple
|
Yeah, twice. Guess he's terrible. Alicia must be too
Or maybe FFs aren't actually that easy, which means a build relying on them (3gate sentry) is not in fact "extremely safe and reliable".
|
I'm talking about the early game where terran has a variety of all-ins that immediately kill the zerg player.
If I go for blue flame hellions and he has a queen blocking the ramp and 2 roaches in the Natural, do I still immediately win?
|
On May 06 2011 02:38 Yaotzin wrote:
Yeah, twice. Guess he's terrible. Alicia must be too
Or maybe FFs aren't actually that easy, which means a build relying on them (3gate sentry) is not in fact "extremely safe and reliable".
They are as easy as any other usable ability in the game. You click on the hotkey and click where you want to aim the spell. I feel kinda stupid that I've entertained your trolling for so long. Bye.
|
there's a lot of bullshit that goes into siding with a top player as a lesser player while saying other lesser players don't know what they are talking about based on their lack of experience.
|
On May 06 2011 02:47 rO_Or wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:38 Yaotzin wrote:
Yeah, twice. Guess he's terrible. Alicia must be too
Or maybe FFs aren't actually that easy, which means a build relying on them (3gate sentry) is not in fact "extremely safe and reliable". They are as easy as any other usable ability in the game. You click on the hotkey and click where you want to aim the spell. I feel kinda stupid that I've entertained your trolling for so long. Bye.
That's why most Protosses gave up the discussion with Zergs.
You cannot discuss with players who have no clue about other races.
|
On May 05 2011 23:14 chrusher97 wrote:
yeah i really dont get why so many ppl take day 9s views on strategies as so amazing and insightful . I mean yeah he was a really good bw player but then is the last time you seen him play sc2, he is probably mid masters at best,
Yes, that's why he's in grandmasters league.
|
On May 06 2011 02:47 rO_Or wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:38 Yaotzin wrote:
Yeah, twice. Guess he's terrible. Alicia must be too
Or maybe FFs aren't actually that easy, which means a build relying on them (3gate sentry) is not in fact "extremely safe and reliable". They are as easy as any other usable ability in the game. You click on the hotkey and click where you want to aim the spell. I feel kinda stupid that I've entertained your trolling for so long. Bye.
Depending on the engagement, you may need to hit 4 or more of those FFs on the perfect hex in order get seal off the oncoming attack. You miss one of those FF by a hex and lings stream in and you die. Plus you need to hit those FF within a split second timing otherwise the attack comes too fast and you FF behind the attack rather than in front of it. It's definitely doable, but not as easy as clicking and just aiming one spell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
