EPT
Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 898
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
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DminusTerran
Canada1337 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:05 Roe wrote: why not? it's a close analogy and the points about scouting for zerg still apply Umm yeah but Idra though Terran was the least powerful most skill required race in starcraft 1 and saw no issue with zerg scouting when he was playing that game. Point is the argument about scouting is stupid. Zerg scouting is all about area coverage between overlord/zerglings and creep. They are able to see more of the map at one time than any other race. However their scouting has the worst penetration. So they have trouble actually getting vision of what is going on in the opponent base at least until they get speedlords or mutas. If Idra thinks zerg defenses are weak or take to long to setup or w/e then just argue that particular point. Scouting for zerg isn't going change yes there are disadvantages but there are also huge advantages as well. If he doesn't like it he should just race change period. | ||
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eLiE
Canada1039 Posts
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:10 rysecake wrote: You cannot just win based off mechanical skill. This is foremost a strategy game. Risks and game sense are part of the game. It's what pushes Flash to the next level. You cannot open economically, be safe from any aggression, and be able to punish an fe from your opponent. That's just ridiculously broken. Absolutely, but risk/reward need to be fairly set. It is really, really easy to instantly die in SC2, and 'strategy' shouldn't rely on 'I hope this catches them by surprise and instantly wins!', but rather create and compound advantages. I think there's a medium between pure mechanics and strategy/risk-taking/build wars that SC2 isn't really at. | ||
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blackhydra866
United States20 Posts
this is crazy tense. | ||
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Brad
2754 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
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Midgetman101
United States825 Posts
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Asparagus
United States269 Posts
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Moonling
United States987 Posts
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Spikeworld
Germany61 Posts
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drox22
129 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:09 rO_Or wrote: The alternative is that Zerg has a legitimate scouting option in the early game... so they don't have to blindly play a defensive build... I think you just don't understand what IdrA was saying. they do, lings and overlords. What does protoss have? nothing MAYBE a fast observers which is extremely risky in the first place. What does a terran have? Scans? What if you use a overlord to hide your tech like the baneling nest for a bbust or what if you build your tech at your expo and he scans your main? He has no information either and sacrificed economy for that (no mule - terran falls behind in eco) | ||
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ExquisiteRed
396 Posts
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Daoism
United States84 Posts
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Deapht
101 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:09 Zeri wrote: incontrol did debate. tyler did philosophy. tylers winning this one... No. "Colby is nobody. I'm somebody"-Tyler. That's not a good argument. There's no reason somebody shouldn't post on a forum. EG wasn't aggressive in this argument, Tyler made it into a bigger deal than it needed to be. | ||
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CNLL
Italy75 Posts
its totally killing the show | ||
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oursblanc
Canada1450 Posts
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On May 04 2011 14:03 Elefanto wrote: No that's not. If the opponent goes for a risky economy build, and you go for a safe build, he should be ahead. If he goes for a risky economy build, and you go for a risky aggressive build, he died and you are ahead / win. That's how it should be. Nope. If he does a risky/all in build and you SCOUT IT IN TIME, you should be ahead. If EVERY TIME I go for a risky/ all in and my opponent goes eco I am ahead, then it is a coin flip and there is no need to play the game, we always could just flip coins and award the money. Like Rock/Paper/Scissors. It is perfectly balanced, but there is NO WAY it can be a competitive sport, because there is no skill involved. You choose a "weapon" and the you either win or lose. If it happened in SC2 (you choose a build and either win or lose there) then it is no point to play! On May 04 2011 14:04 drox22 wrote: How is a build that automatically let's you hold off any sort of all in and still keeps you on a even level economically fair? That would completely break the game. You can't die early game, you don't fall behind in economy either if your opponent fast expands? How can you lose then? NO, that is NOT the ideal solution. The ideal solution is 2: A way to scout and respond correctly. But either of the two answers provide a balanced game. Their approach is different, 1 (having a build that CAN defend anything) assumes the difference in outcomes comes from MICRO, NOT BUILD ORDER WIN. 2 (having scouting possible) assumes good scouting and a good reaction time will get you safe. BOTH will have a balanced game as an outcome, but you people don't really want to use your brains to think about it. | ||
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