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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 668

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
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spasheridan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5 Posts
April 04 2011 18:22 GMT
#13341
All the griping about the stream and the connectivity issues - I have to say that networking this kind on an event is a technical minefield. It sure is easy to throw out the "make it better" and the "blizzard LAN fail" - but we live in the real world folks and we have limited resources, including time and money and bandwidth, and choices have to be made. Who knows what failed - upstream router from the ISP? Security gateway device? Couldn't get teamed NICs working onto a core switch from the site owner? QOS inconstancies? Bad fibre module? There are a ton of failure modes for an environment like this, and MLG doesn't own the space so they have to integrate their networking gear into the existing infrastructure. I've been in networking for 13 years and I wouldn't want this job at all. Kudo's to MLG to getting it done at all.
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
April 04 2011 18:28 GMT
#13342
On April 05 2011 02:18 Peekaboo wrote:

I get bored very quickly by their "how MLG failed talks" and how it will improve. Also why Blizzard didn't implement Lan talks.... so I hope they address it and move on. Its not entertaining to say what even idiots already know. I'd rather hear Tyler talk about protoss strategy and game analysis, he puts the rest of the SC2 universe to shame with the detail and accuracy of his insights.


I 100% agree. There's nothing more ot say than MLG screwed up and they need to fix it next time. I'm always much more interested in talking about strategy or other players or the "meta-game" than about tournament screw ups.
Xinder
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2269 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 18:35:12
April 04 2011 18:34 GMT
#13343
Hopefully they go over the HuK vs Idra games and especially the first series where HuK had the hallu units. I loved their insight last week, especially Geoffs, into how Idra thought and hopefully he can maybe shed anything on why Idra quit so quick. Also maybe Geoff talked with Idra after that and discussed the match with him.

Just was really insightful last week when they talked bout the TSL3 game and Geoff gave his insight into Idra.
"Daaayyyy9, King Pussyfoot of NinnyVille"- Day9 while playing Amnesia
Jiddra
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden2685 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 19:06:44
April 04 2011 18:50 GMT
#13344
Great topic for next episode:
Attitude problem
COLUMN: Idra's bad attitude is getting pretty old.

Attitude problem
In esports, typically, the concept of manners is something that we take only semi-seriously. It’s often a joke about cheesy strategies or someone forgetting to say ‘gl hf’ at the beginning of a game. For us mere ladder players, we encounter truly bad mannered or downright abusive players on a daily basis (although I have noticed it a lot less in SC2 than in other games thus far). But generally we just shake it off and move onto the next game.

[...]

But in Idra, we have a 21 year-old who is a veteran of esports. What’s his excuse? Yeah, I get it, people think it’s funny when he rages and he’s at least somewhat more erudite than most pro gamers, but does that make it “okay” for him to act like a dick? I admit, I’ve found it funny from time-to-time, but the whole badass thing got tired pretty quick, and now it’s clear that he’s basically a whiny brat who obviously got his own way far too much as a kid.

What is he so angry about anyway? Thousands of people all over the world would love to be in his position, playing computer games for a living. Everyone gets angry from time-to-time when they lose, but that’s no excuse for telling another player to fuck off in the middle of a tournament match – it’s no wonder MLG seemingly tried to hide all evidence of the match against Huk. It will be interesting to see if this replay ever sees the light of day.

Every sport has its renegades but most of them don’t get away with it like Idra has. Wayne Rooney is only a few steps up the evolutionary chain from a Gorilla, but at least the FA and the Premier League fine him and suspend him when he acts out. What do MLG and ESL do about Idra’s continuously bad attitude? To their detriment, they do nothing. Most of these leagues share the stated goal of bringing esports to the mainstream public, but that isn’t going to happen while high profile players like Idra are allowed to act like children.

My solution is pretty simple.
[...]

Read the whole column at http://rakakaworld.com/?newsID=204

Huk is retarded - Idra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhtj-tnztc

PS. I'm not the author of the column
I am not young enough to know everything.
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
April 04 2011 18:51 GMT
#13345
--- Nuked ---
Asparagus
Profile Joined December 2010
United States269 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 19:00:55
April 04 2011 18:57 GMT
#13346
Funny that the article talks about following rules. MLG should enforce the ones they already have or at least update the rulebook before they try to impose more on the players.

"edit" do you even watch sports? words slip all the time, noone's fined $1,000 every time a foul wasn't called, they just are able to mute it if it's a pre-record or they're able to censor it before it's able to be heard.

The better question is why mature-filter wasn't enabled in the first place? or was good behavior expected? this shows the development state of esports at the moment where it's own community has just the best hindsight in the world.
This isn't the right quote!
NikonTC
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom418 Posts
April 04 2011 19:03 GMT
#13347
On April 05 2011 03:51 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2011 03:50 Jiddra wrote:
Great topic for next episode:
Attitude problem
COLUMN: Idra's bad attitude is getting pretty old.

Attitude problem
In esports, typically, the concept of manners is something that we take only semi-seriously. It’s often a joke about cheesy strategies or someone forgetting to say ‘gl hf’ at the beginning of a game. For us mere ladder players, we encounter truly bad mannered or downright abusive players on a daily basis (although I have noticed it a lot less in SC2 than in other games thus far). But generally we just shake it off and move onto the next game.

In professional level games, such things are obviously far less common. Players generally understand that they have a responsibility to their teams and their sponsors, not to mention the example they set for other gamers. In other words, most professional players live up to the job description. The odd ragequit in an online tournament is much more forgivable when it comes from a player who is usually well behaved.

Of course, there have always been exceptions. In WC3 there was the infamous Elakeduck. There are numerous stories about him acting like an asshole, but he was still quite young when he was in the spotlight, and his career ended up being fairly short. Any community will have its “characters” – for want of a better term, because I don’t think that insulting fellow professionals is a show of character – but there is usually a cut-off point. Eventually the player is punished and learns from his actions, or maybe he just grows up.

But in Idra, we have a 21 year-old who is a veteran of esports. What’s his excuse? Yeah, I get it, people think it’s funny when he rages and he’s at least somewhat more erudite than most pro gamers, but does that make it “okay” for him to act like a dick? I admit, I’ve found it funny from time-to-time, but the whole badass thing got tired pretty quick, and now it’s clear that he’s basically a whiny brat who obviously got his own way far too much as a kid.

What is he so angry about anyway? Thousands of people all over the world would love to be in his position, playing computer games for a living. Everyone gets angry from time-to-time when they lose, but that’s no excuse for telling another player to fuck off in the middle of a tournament match – it’s no wonder MLG seemingly tried to hide all evidence of the match against Huk. It will be interesting to see if this replay ever sees the light of day.

Every sport has its renegades but most of them don’t get away with it like Idra has. Wayne Rooney is only a few steps up the evolutionary chain from a Gorilla, but at least the FA and the Premier League fine him and suspend him when he acts out. What do MLG and ESL do about Idra’s continuously bad attitude? To their detriment, they do nothing. Most of these leagues share the stated goal of bringing esports to the mainstream public, but that isn’t going to happen while high profile players like Idra are allowed to act like children.

My solution is pretty simple. ESL already fines players part of their potential prize money for misdemeanours at EPS level, why not just move that scheme up to the highest level? Hit the players where it hurts and they’ll soon take some responsibility.

http://rakakaworld.com/?newsID=204


Funny, i pretty much agree with all of it


Odd isn't it. I know that rakaka is essentially a tabloid, but the writer makes some good points. I genuinely think that monetary fines should be introduced for BM/rule infringement in e-sports. Obviously there is no governing body of e-sports atm, and MLG can't "fine" a player directly, but they could take money away from any prize money they made at that/future events?

I think IdrA would be less likely to say "fuck off" if it would cost him $200 of his $500 prize for example. I also personally think huk should have been fined for breaking the ingame typing rules in the first place, for the record. I think it's time to make gaming look more professional, and less childish.

This would mean setting up a standard for what constitutes "BM" as well though to be fair. Are there varying degrees of it? Is not typing gg as serious an offence as swearing at your opponent? Should everything that is considered BM be blanketed under one punishment? or should there be varying degrees? etc.
"IdrA crushes the marine push, absolutely demolishes this 2 rax play. Would not be suprised to see a GG from IdrA at any moment" Day[9]
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
April 04 2011 19:08 GMT
#13348
On April 05 2011 04:03 NikonTC wrote: I think it's time to make gaming look more professional, and less childish.


Idra is basically the Charlie Sheen of the Starcraft World, except he's not winning.
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
April 04 2011 19:10 GMT
#13349
I can't believe how fucking whiny you people are about "BM"

The entire term is stupid, pulled from a country with hyper strict moral values that has nothing to do with western esports or life at all.

There is a reason idra is the most popular foreigner. There is a reason Destiny is the most popular streamer.

Believe it or not your skewed view on morals is the minority.

Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
walklightwhat
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia752 Posts
April 04 2011 19:17 GMT
#13350
I'd be more inclined to think that blog was worth something if the blogger didn't ignore that fact that Huk broke the MLG rule as much as IdrA did and that he's previously found IdrA's bm funny, but now that he thinks it's "old", it's "wrong" and needs to be punished.

Laughed at and ignored, frankly. I don't see the good points.
pyro19
Profile Joined August 2010
6575 Posts
April 04 2011 19:17 GMT
#13351
Well happens everytime Idra rages , nothing will happen. The minority will always complain but the Fact is that he is right now THE most watched , quoted and sought after pro gamer in north America.
Thy Shall Die Alone...or emm..something like that.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
April 04 2011 19:17 GMT
#13352
I hope they don't talk about MLG's problems that much. Ranting can get a bit old, and everyone knows it was a total mess.

Plenty to talk about game-wise anyway.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 19:19:44
April 04 2011 19:19 GMT
#13353
On April 05 2011 04:10 Mailing wrote:
I can't believe how fucking whiny you people are about "BM"

The entire term is stupid, pulled from a country with hyper strict moral values that has nothing to do with western esports or life at all.

There is a reason idra is the most popular foreigner. There is a reason Destiny is the most popular streamer.

Believe it or not your skewed view on morals is the minority.


Yeah, let's totally have everyone going around calling each other names when they lose and cursing at them when they do something we think is cheap. That'll turn us right into all the other stupid communities that accept and promote that kind of behavior. It IS childish.

You're in the minority here. No one thinks people like IdrA and Destiny are people to look to for moral value. They think the BM is funny and find joy in watching others rage at parts of a game. It's also childish in that laughing at others because they get mad amounts to little more than petty bullying. Unfortunately, everyone on the internet has to act like they're witty and insult other people, so the trend continues even though it's reprehensible behavior.

You're coming from some "Cultural Relativism" mindset about morals, when the fact is, the West doesn't really want to put up with stupid BM that's out of place either. A match, even between rivals, shouldn't devolve into a name-calling affair. The most interesting part of the IdrA vs. Huk was the way IdrA beat Huk in the extended series, not what Huk said to him in game 3.

Stop promoting BM.
Writer@WriterYamato
bLah.
Profile Joined July 2009
Croatia497 Posts
April 04 2011 19:19 GMT
#13354
On April 05 2011 03:57 Asparagus wrote:
"edit" do you even watch sports? words slip all the time,


dude, there is no "slipping" when it comes to typing something. And this "fuck off" example isn't really main problem, it's his whole attitude which is really getting old. I can understand that people who got into sc few months ago might still find that amusing but he is acting like that for years now :/
His words don't slip, he isn't cought in a moment, he just thinks that he's better than anyone else and that everyone else is retarded. It's really a miracle how no one has bitchslaped him on some lan :/
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
April 04 2011 19:21 GMT
#13355
On April 05 2011 04:19 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2011 04:10 Mailing wrote:
I can't believe how fucking whiny you people are about "BM"

The entire term is stupid, pulled from a country with hyper strict moral values that has nothing to do with western esports or life at all.

There is a reason idra is the most popular foreigner. There is a reason Destiny is the most popular streamer.

Believe it or not your skewed view on morals is the minority.


Yeah, let's totally have everyone going around calling each other names when they lose and cursing at them when they do something we think is cheap. That'll turn us right into all the other stupid communities that accept and promote that kind of behavior. It IS childish.

You're in the minority here. No one thinks people like IdrA and Destiny are people to look to for moral value. They think the BM is funny and find joy in watching others rage at parts of a game. It's also childish in that laughing at others because they get mad amounts to little more than petty bullying. Unfortunately, everyone on the internet has to act like they're witty and insult other people, so the trend continues even though it's reprehensible behavior.

You're coming from some "Cultural Relativism" mindset about morals, when the fact is, the West doesn't really want to put up with stupid BM that's out of place either. A match, even between rivals, shouldn't devolve into a name-calling affair. The most interesting part of the IdrA vs. Huk was the way IdrA beat Huk in the extended series, not what Huk said to him in game 3.

Stop promoting BM.


Charles Barkley: "I am not a role model."

You know why IdrA's Bm matters? Because people constantly cry about it. Plenty of people think it's funny or don't care, but it's the obsessive people who cry over it and blow it out of proportion that are the problem.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 19:22:29
April 04 2011 19:21 GMT
#13356
On April 05 2011 03:50 Jiddra wrote:
Great topic for next episode:
Attitude problem
COLUMN: Idra's bad attitude is getting pretty old.

Show nested quote +
Attitude problem
In esports, typically, the concept of manners is something that we take only semi-seriously. It’s often a joke about cheesy strategies or someone forgetting to say ‘gl hf’ at the beginning of a game. For us mere ladder players, we encounter truly bad mannered or downright abusive players on a daily basis (although I have noticed it a lot less in SC2 than in other games thus far). But generally we just shake it off and move onto the next game.

[...]

But in Idra, we have a 21 year-old who is a veteran of esports. What’s his excuse? Yeah, I get it, people think it’s funny when he rages and he’s at least somewhat more erudite than most pro gamers, but does that make it “okay” for him to act like a dick? I admit, I’ve found it funny from time-to-time, but the whole badass thing got tired pretty quick, and now it’s clear that he’s basically a whiny brat who obviously got his own way far too much as a kid.

What is he so angry about anyway? Thousands of people all over the world would love to be in his position, playing computer games for a living. Everyone gets angry from time-to-time when they lose, but that’s no excuse for telling another player to fuck off in the middle of a tournament match – it’s no wonder MLG seemingly tried to hide all evidence of the match against Huk. It will be interesting to see if this replay ever sees the light of day.

Every sport has its renegades but most of them don’t get away with it like Idra has. Wayne Rooney is only a few steps up the evolutionary chain from a Gorilla, but at least the FA and the Premier League fine him and suspend him when he acts out. What do MLG and ESL do about Idra’s continuously bad attitude? To their detriment, they do nothing. Most of these leagues share the stated goal of bringing esports to the mainstream public, but that isn’t going to happen while high profile players like Idra are allowed to act like children.

My solution is pretty simple.
[...]

Read the whole column at http://rakakaworld.com/?newsID=204

Huk is retarded - Idra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhtj-tnztc

PS. I'm not the author of the column



I don't agree with it. I mean, yeah you can punish the players if you make strict rules and you follow them strictly.

But if you let people chat "friendly", then something like this happens, now what? Who's gonna prove that HuK wasn't teasing IdrA? IdrA knew that they wouldn't get banned or something, so he replied. I would bet that if he were sure the rules would be applied, he wouldn't have replied. But then again if HuK knew the rules would be applied, he probably woudln't have teased IdrA in the first place.

All in all, to me that's just an article trying to make a storm out of a bottle of water, really. So now just because IdrA has a spot and a job where most of gamers would like to be, he can't feel angry about his losses and demonstrate it? It's not like he didn't work his ass off to be where he is.

Don't get me wrong, if I were to choose, I'd choose a more "to himself" IdrA, but the tournaments allow this kind of things to happen, so I'm not gonna blame him for being who he is. If I'm to blame someone, I'll blame the people responsible for making up the rules, and putting them into execution.

Wayne Rooney is being punished for insulting in front of the camera? You really think none of them swears when they're not 0.5 meters away from a microphone? None of them seem to be punished for that. Hey I hear coaches yelling bad words in middle of "orders" to their players every game I watch in my TV, none of them seems to be having problems with punishments.

I don't even think you should compare Rooney's punishment and IdrA. The only way the players in SC2 can communicate during a match is through the chat, and that is transparent to the public, so of course if IdrA swears, everyone will see it, meanwhile if Ronney choose to say those words 30 seconds sooner or later (far from cameras and microphones) I don't believe he would be having any problem.

tl;dr:
I believe IdrA is smart enough to not insult anyone in game if the tournament rules were applied 100% all the time, and didn't allow any chatting. They don't, so stuff like this will keep on happening as long as players like HuK keep on teasing players like IdrA during the game. It's much more logical to add and apply rules instead of expecting that every single player that joins the tournament to change the way they are just to be the kind of guy some people would like them to be.

//tx
"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
fush
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada563 Posts
April 04 2011 19:21 GMT
#13357
Not sure about why "professionalism" is such a big deal here. No one watches anything with "professionalism" as the sole reason, so why is there such a fuss about enforcing it onto our game? Do you really think our leagues will get better sponsorship because of professionalism? I think we need to focus more on entertainment value and production far far before we need to worry about catering our PR to the soccer moms and families of the world.

I agree with the line of thinking in that rakaka article to a degree, where crossing a line from entertaining banter to slinging insults can be punishable, but a kespa-esque crackdown on chatting in game seems ridiculous. Why take out even more personality from the game? Are people seriously entertained by empty interviews devoid of any character - pretty much 90% of Korean players as an example?? Frankly I don't feel like there's anything to be discussed here, because SC is a game of emotions, and nothing should stop players from showing them in the game.
sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
April 04 2011 19:22 GMT
#13358
On April 05 2011 04:10 Mailing wrote:
I can't believe how fucking whiny you people are about "BM"

The entire term is stupid, pulled from a country with hyper strict moral values that has nothing to do with western esports or life at all.

There is a reason idra is the most popular foreigner. There is a reason Destiny is the most popular streamer.

Believe it or not your skewed view on morals is the minority.



I kind of agree with this... if people actually want sc2 to grow big as an esport you will have to accept that some people in sports ARE bad mannered, in most communities BM people get embraced, not rejected...

SC2 becoming bigger will attract more and more competitive people, I don't know if the sc2 community checks out the Halo community or the Xbox community in general but it's pretty damn bad, BM all over in fact... Now, I can promise you that alot of people will probably come over from there to try out SC2, some might even become pro and guess what, the BM will most likely follow.

Every sport has BM included, if two people start fighting in a hockeymatch, do you go on some hockey forum and say "OMG THAT GUY JUST GAVE THAT GUY A RIGHT HOOK, SO BM".... No, you don't...

I'm not saying that BM is something that everybody should do, but it wont go away because you whine about it, it will become even bigger.
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-04 19:28:12
April 04 2011 19:23 GMT
#13359
On April 05 2011 03:57 Asparagus wrote:
Funny that the article talks about following rules. MLG should enforce the ones they already have or at least update the rulebook before they try to impose more on the players.

"edit" do you even watch sports? words slip all the time, noone's fined $1,000 every time a foul wasn't called, they just are able to mute it if it's a pre-record or they're able to censor it before it's able to be heard.

The better question is why mature-filter wasn't enabled in the first place? or was good behavior expected? this shows the development state of esports at the moment where it's own community has just the best hindsight in the world.



this was my exact thoughts on the matter...

why don't they just play with the language filter on...? Kinda ridiculous to NOt have it on when you are streaming to so many people and cannot gaurentee that these types of things won't happen?

And people who are crying about cursing...have you ever watched ANY professional sporting event? Name me one where you havent seen them cursing rampantly when they were upset.

The difference is they aren't mic'ed up. And in some cases they are but they dont share those live, isntead they wait until after they are edited/censoried before sharing.

honestly there is NO REASON for playing with the filter off.. what can they gain be turning the filter off? nothing. turn it off, be safe, and this conversation is completely unnecessary.

It doesn't bother me that idra dropped an F bomb, it bothers me that he has traded in training for coming up with reasons why other races are imba.

Idra was the best foreigner in BW because he trained the hardest of ANY foreigner in BW. He has kinda forgotten that and is now just letting his past training carry him instead of just training like he used to.



At least Idra can do an interview... IMO all of the pro SC2 players need to take an oral communication class and maybe get some personality training. Watching Naniwa's final interview was sooooooo awkward... you could tell the host was just like "srsly.... " if anything makes the SC2 community look bad it's that we can't even hold conversations on camera cause we are such nerdy gamers.
I understand that we should study Korean playing, but we should not be copying their interview skills..
yosef
Profile Joined February 2011
United States19 Posts
April 04 2011 19:24 GMT
#13360
its more fucking rude to message someone in the start of the game after they just lost then to say Huk can't beat me in a real game. Idra had the only interview that was a little entertaining and if he can't say something as mild as that what the fuck can people say then.
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